Ornstein is also a journalist who wants to generate headlines. He could have asked a source at the club about Fernandes and got a response like, “the price and wage were too high and in initial talks we didn’t feel he shared the same values as Carrick and the club”. And to a journalist that becomes, “United only want players who are desperate to join the club” or whatever narrative they want to spin.
Mateus Fernandes | Spurs player
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Depends on what you consider the best at , because he’s picked the best financial package for Fernandes rather than the better club
By the notion put out by the club, these signings don’t happen.
Agreed that they are getting a source from somewhere. Orny has had a chat, interpreted it and put out his own words.
I’d like one summer where we hear nothing from United and they just get transfer business done
And if he did that, he’d get nothing else out of the club.
Football now is ran in a way where things will get leaked so clubs brief journalists with what they want put out there. So it begs the question why you are wanting this certain line trotted out. Ornstein isn't a Romano that cares about clicks in the headline generating way. He's respected enough to just do what he does with no bullshit and still get a lot of traffic.
Exactly. Why is that so difficult? Let your actions do your talking for you.
It’s disappointing we didn’t get the player, having watched him many times live this year I think he would have been great at United.
His character is actually something that stands out, he battled for everything with passion so unfortunately I’m not on board with his choosing Spurs over us as some sort of significant character flaw.
I think it’s pretty clear he went for the money, and 100k a week is a significant amount more than what he would have been getting here.
It seems to me the anger and frustration on this board is related to the fact that he was a good fit, and I don’t think there are many obvious options who are available to sign in his place.
The 85 million I think we should have been able to get close to or compete with. It’s the 250k per week in wages I don’t think we could or should have matched. Not for a young upcoming player with potential.
This brings me to something I have thought about before, is there no way to factor in a significant signing on fee for certain players that allows the weekly wage to stay within a wage structure whilst allowing us to compete in these kind of instances? Maybe there os an obvious reason outside of - it’s too expensive?
His character is actually something that stands out, he battled for everything with passion so unfortunately I’m not on board with his choosing Spurs over us as some sort of significant character flaw.
I think it’s pretty clear he went for the money, and 100k a week is a significant amount more than what he would have been getting here.
It seems to me the anger and frustration on this board is related to the fact that he was a good fit, and I don’t think there are many obvious options who are available to sign in his place.
The 85 million I think we should have been able to get close to or compete with. It’s the 250k per week in wages I don’t think we could or should have matched. Not for a young upcoming player with potential.
This brings me to something I have thought about before, is there no way to factor in a significant signing on fee for certain players that allows the weekly wage to stay within a wage structure whilst allowing us to compete in these kind of instances? Maybe there os an obvious reason outside of - it’s too expensive?
Quite a remarkably ill informed and obtuse set of posts you’ve put out.
You’ve countered with nothing, or are you saying that didn’t happen; we didn’t actively jump in and snag those players from underneath the noses of clubs they were destined for?
Exactly. Lets just do the business quietly and let your action speak louder than words instead of going to media for every small details.
those players changed their mind because the greatest manager in the world said he wanted them in their team. How do you think that would work in the current United team? Give them more money? that's exactly what Spurs do
Nonsense Van Persie and Rooney both said they only wanted United once we were interested
I've said it before and I'll repeat it, as disappointing as this is, the minute Spurs rocked up and offered this package, how many of us would have been ok with us paying him £250K p/w even if we could match the price?
Easy to say "not my money" but that would be a ticking time bomb in the dressing room.
MF was my favourite based on the little I've watched of all the names we've been linked to, in my view he has everything (bar maybe an imposing physical stature), but it's what it is, the Spurs offer was silly and we refused to match it. Rightly so if you ask me.
Easy to say "not my money" but that would be a ticking time bomb in the dressing room.
MF was my favourite based on the little I've watched of all the names we've been linked to, in my view he has everything (bar maybe an imposing physical stature), but it's what it is, the Spurs offer was silly and we refused to match it. Rightly so if you ask me.
Convincing high profile players to come is part and parcel for most clubs not named Barcelona or Madrid. We did it multiple times and Fergie put the personal touch on many a transfer, convincing, cajoling and winning over players, but now, it’s beneath us, whilst we’re far removed from the position of strength we had back then?
It doesn’t send out a good message and it’s a sure fire way to miss out on players. It’s certainly nothing to brief as if it’s a good thing.
De Zerbi will finish the job and bankrupt them.
And to think I wanted West Ham to go down because I thought we could get Mateus. Instead... the irony.
My worry is they know we need a new midfield, but just seem to be wanting to sign any midfielder who wants to play for us, rather than building a coherent midfield. We didn't get this lad, who they thought was perfect for our midfield, I know lets look at players who are completely different.
I forgot about them, this is Mendes, he will be wanting a fair chunk of money.
Wouldn’t surprise me if there is a sell on agreement too only exercisable by certain large clubs on the continent. Mendes gets what Mendes wants
I fully believe the idea they want commitment to the club and for it to not be seen as a payday anymore. It should be a place that players come to prove themselves at the highest level, not where they feel they've already 'made it' when they arrive. They'll still pay lavishly, and do that for players that deserve it, like Bruno. However, I don't think it's an inflexible commandment either. We've already seen that they were willing to sign Anderson after he'd already declared his preference for City, just in case they decided not to pay up (or the FA finally did their job and relegated them to the National League).
I wish you'd stop calling people who aren't as upset or reactionary as you, people who have tried calling for a bit of level headedness and calm amidst the teeth gnashing, reductive and redundant. It would be nice to have a bit more jocular schadenfreude again on this place, which has drifted far too deep into what often feels like digital self harm.
I've seen very little evidence that anyone thinks the owners are 'infallible pillars'. For a start, a majority of them are still the Glazer family! They're the reason we've been in the mire for so long! And I wouldn't trust Ratcliffe to keep an eye on my dead cat for 5 minutes. But the people currently in charge of signing players have actually shown glimmers of knowing what they're doing, so what choice do I have but to have a bit of patience and trust them to get the job done? If they don't, what do I do? Stop supporting United? If they fail they'll eventually be sacked and replaced anyway, but that won't be up to me.
Lastly, what the hell is wrong with you?! You're labelled as 'staff', yet you're acting like a demented fire fighter, pouring petrol onto a burning building full of other pyromaniacs. I must say, it's a little disappointing.
You didn't answer how are we gonna do that without someone that has similar pedigree as Fergie.
90% of convincing players to switch their destination was the existence of Ferguson as our manager.
You don't know what the current United management have done to convince them, maybe they have tried it, but it wasn't successful
Fernandes isn’t a high profile player though. They’ve massively overspent for a 21 year old from a relegated team.
You say players should come to prove themselves at the highest level. Problem with that is we don't compete at the highest level and haven't for over a decade and with this ownership don't look like doing so anytime soon.
Jesus Christ, completely missing the point
The point is it's incredibly naive to say we can only sign players desperate that join us. Even when we were top dogs with the best manager ever we had to fight for players. Now we are side that struggles to qualify for the cl, hasn't been close to winning the league in 13 years, have a manager with no experience, we can't demand players who only want us. It's not rekiaistic unless you're shopping for players no other big club wants. You may get the odd one but it's a terrible strategy. You just want winners, players that whoever they play for will give everything to win
I’m not the one telling those who don’t agree with what I am saying to take a day off etc. etc. I am pouring petrol on a burning fire? Despite being one of very few outlining exactly why the arrogance and dismissal of Spurs as a rival for the player this thread is about was both ill advised and naive? No. I don’t think I am acting like a detractor - in fact, I think there’s an unwarranted nonchalance to some of what I am reading, but it’s futile quoting every post or even taking the general notion to task as people definitely don’t want to hear it.
It’s clear some have put their faith in this ownership and don’t want to hear anything to the contrary. It’s not dissimilar to the Ugarte transfer thread in many ways, but perhaps the outcome will be different and INEOS come out smelling of roses.
And what do you think I’m upset about, exactly? As you’ve accused me of that twice now.
You're taking it too literally. They're just saying that if a player has a choice between clubs, who are all offering the same thing financially, they want players that will choose United because that's where they want to go the most. There is nothing wrong with that, and I imagine it was exactly the same when SAF was manager and we were winning everything.
We've already tried offering more money to get the big names in, like Pogba, Angel di Maria, Sancho, etc. That's what you mean by 'fighting'. It did not work.
You seem very upset to be honest. If you can't see that in your posts then I can't help you
Was I supposed to answer - the point is it wasn’t beneath the greatest manager of all time to use every ounce of his standing to get players into the club, but now, it’s beneath us?
Your final sentence reads as counterintuitive to me, unless you think these briefs are PR exercise in covering up rejection.
Well then. I asked directly and nothing back from you. I seem very upset about what exactly?
No
I didn't mean that by fighting. I clear said we still had to fight for players when we were top dogs under fergie. Our prices are blem wasnt spending money, it was spending it on the wrong players with the wrong attitudes. You need to compete financially for the top players, the best sides have spent a lot of money. All things weren't equal in this transfer, we didn't even have a bid accepted
We just moved too slow. We had 6 months to secure the deal as we knew we need to get a quality CM. But dithering to the last minutes, fecking around with i don’t know what. That’s a really dissapointment for this whole saga.
are you saying that retired Fergie would need to involve himself into our player recruitment when he's not even the one picking the player? do you understand how crazy that is?Players would easily pick United in the Fergie era because they know that playing for him they will win trophies. Now he's not the manager. You can't ask him to sell United to these players, because in the end it's not Fergie who managed the team
Players would easily pick United in the Fergie era because they know that playing for him they will win trophies. Now he's not the manager. You can't ask him to sell United to these players, because in the end it's not Fergie who managed the team
They've also tried this type of thing before where they got legends involved pretty sure Bellingham had the carpet rolled out and with legends telling him about the club etc and it still didn't work
Whether we hijack a deal or not has nothing to do with how much the player wants to play for us. A player being willing to join another club has nothing to do with how much they want to play for us. The club sees that. We hijacked deals last summer.
We just want players who really want to play for us. The club will still go out of it's way to sell the project. You're panicking for nothing.
He defo won't mind if Spurs become a relegation candidate again next season. He's got loads of experience with that and he can help calm down his team mates.
That first sentence is a platitude though, nothing about us at the moment is the highest level, apart from our revenues. I don't see how we showed we were willing to sign Anderson, we got squeezed out by Mendes for Fernandes and the only reason City would have walked away would be over price (which we were always concerned about) or they were relegated - that's a crap plan.
There are real delusions of grandeur with our fanbase when it comes to the idea of commitment to the club. What are they committing to? Carrick? a 3rd place finish after sacking another manager mid-season? This attitude only works if you are a big step up and even with Fernandes, we saw that money was a bigger pull. Realsitically, you need to pay for quality. In the richest league in the world and we don't have any recent sucess or challenge to hang our hat on, money talks.
I think people give this new ownership a lot of credit for very little, in my opinion. They've spent loads already, gone through 3 managers already and still have to spend a fortune to get the squad into shape to compete on all fronts. Not to mention the DOF debacle with Ashworth. I've seen no evidence that they know how to plan for long term sucess. They appear to be very short term, and their main priority is keeping costs down.
Confirmed deal done for Spurs. Time to close this horrible thread.
£85m isn't even as much as Pogba which was 10 years ago. Inflation adjusted it's not actually that much compared to other signings in the past couple of years.
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