Matic as single pivot [Pogba stays scenario]

MasterCode

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Matic ain't got the feet for it. Against teams like this Fred and Matic will look good. But against the Southamptons Leicesters and teams with Organised press, and who set pressing traps. Matic, Fred and even Pogba and Scott who are both two of my favourites will be found wanting.

We need someone with feet who is press resistant and can pivot the team nicely, because against a more aggressive press the play is reset at the GK or CB not DM.
Today fortunately we reset play through Matic because Newcastle afforded him a lot of time on the ball. It won't be like that all the time, but hats off to Matic, he did very well today.
 

spiriticon

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Matic is excellent in the single or double pivot when used sparingly.

Play him more than 5 games in a row though and his levels drop drastically. You need to pick the right games for him.
 

Champ

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What?! You must've watched an entirely different game. He used to be a cracking player but we need WAY more mobility in that role than he can provide. He also dawdled on the ball but I think his lack of mobility leaves us hugely exposed...we look a lot better without him imo.
I think you need to watch the game again with a clear head.

He was honestly quality today. Don't get me wrong, we need an upgrade on him, but he was superb today, and really broke the lines well.
 

Mr Smith

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It will work against teams like newcastle when we expect to have most of the ball. No good against teams who press us i think.
 

Chief123

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Matic does not have the mobility to be a sole defensive midfielder. Newcastle had multiple times where they just ran straight at our defence due to no protection in front.

But some on here just see Matic do some nice passes and step forward with the ball and think he’s the solution.

His priority is to protect the defence which he is not as good as he used to be simply because he can’t get around the pitch quick enough.
 

Red_toad

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Matic does not have the mobility to be a sole defensive midfielder. Newcastle had multiple times where they just ran straight at our defence due to no protection in front.

But some on here just see Matic do some nice passes and step forward with the ball and think he’s the solution.

His priority is to protect the defence which he is not as good as he used to be simply because he can’t get around the pitch quick enough.
There isn't a player in the world who can move quickly enough to cover a midfield with Bruno and Pogba in it.
 

Champ

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I don't get it. If someone can explain, I'd be greatful
There's no such thing as a 'pivot' in football.

Nothing in football relies on one or two players, a pivot is something in which everything relies on to move etc.
That doesn't happen in football. It doesn't exist. A two man midfield isn't a double pivot, it's just a two man midfield. That's it.
 

Chief123

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I don't get it. If someone can explain, I'd be greatful
What people are referring to with single pivot and double pivot is essentially the shape of the team.

single pivot - one defensive mid with two attacking mids in front.

double pivot - two defensive mids with a cam in front.

Both forming a triangle shape but the point of the triangle either being in the defensive side or the attacking side.
 

Adam-Utd

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I think you need to watch the game again with a clear head.

He was honestly quality today. Don't get me wrong, we need an upgrade on him, but he was superb today, and really broke the lines well.
think you need to watch it again.

it’s not his on the ball work that is the issue. as soon as we lost it they ran passed him with ease and he never got close to cutting out any of their attacks. for a defensive midfielder he did sod all in that regard.

tidy enough when he has the ball under zero pressure but he’d be embarrassing playing as a CDM by himself
 

Champ

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think you need to watch it again.

it’s not his on the ball work that is the issue. as soon as we lost it they ran passed him with ease and he never got close to cutting out any of their attacks. for a defensive midfielder he did sod all in that regard.

tidy enough when he has the ball under zero pressure but he’d be embarrassing playing as a CDM by himself
I don't think I need to watch it again, I'm watching it as I type this, and his positional play is superb.
Rarely caught out of position, baring in mind Newcastle were playing on the counter, they barely had a sniff.

There was on point where Matic picked up the ball on the touchline and held a player off before chipping it down the line inch perfect to start a counter,
He'll be missed when he's gone.
 

Red_toad

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Ahh yes, Matic is the best solution in the world in that case.
And where did you get that from?
I'd suggest you live in the real world and cope with Matic, McScotty and Fred as players we can select. 22/23 season who knows...
 

Chief123

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And where did you get that from?
I'd suggest you live in the real world and cope with Matic, McScotty and Fred as players we can select. 22/23 season who knows...
You made out no midfielder would be able to provide cover for a midfield with Pogba and Bruno. Pretty invalid comment to make considering it just simply ain’t true and you just made it up. Just one name for you, Kante. Played that role and won a World Cup with pogba.
 

Chief123

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I don't think I need to watch it again, I'm watching it as I type this, and his positional play is superb.
Rarely caught out of position, baring in mind Newcastle were playing on the counter, they barely had a sniff.
Newcastle was one of the most defensively setup teams I’ve seen come to OT in a long time. Yet they still managed 12 attempts on our goal with numerous occasions where Matic was not even in the camera shot. Definitely worth you watching the match again.
 

Champ

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Newcastle was one of the most defensively setup teams I’ve seen come to OT in a long time. Yet they still managed 12 attempts on our goal with numerous occasions where Matic was not even in the camera shot. Definitely worth you watching the match again.
So all of Newcastle's shots were Matics fault??

How many shots on target did they have?

I suggest you open your eyes and eradicate the hate brother.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It will work against teams like newcastle when we expect to have most of the ball. No good against teams who press us i think.
Not just what you think, it's pretty much common sense in football. The current Matic will be bullied and exposed by Traore easily so not like he will make it any difference if we play Matic and Pogba vs Wolves away in our 3rd game.
 

tenpoless

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McSauce can do the job too I reckon. First requirement is for the said midfielder not to lose the ball uneccessarily in our own half. A few of Newcastle chances were our own doing.
 

Red_toad

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You made out no midfielder would be able to provide cover for a midfield with Pogba and Bruno. Pretty invalid comment to make considering it just simply ain’t true and you just made it up. Just one name for you, Kante. Played that role and won a World Cup with pogba.
In my opinion there is no single player who can cover for Bruno & Pogba, it’s not invalid as no one has proven any different, Fred, Matic & McTommy have all been tried. You think differently then please provide evidence.
Wrong they play with 3 midfielders, same as Juve when he was there! Go fact checking yourself. Matuidi was 100% in midfield to support Kante.
 

AttackAttackAttack

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I don’t mind playing Matic against teams that park the bus. He still passes the ball in between the lines well enough and he can shoot from distance. I don’t think he was a defensive midfielder today and I’d rather not see him start against team that come to play. We all want a new midfielder or two but we need to work with what we have for now.
 

Pickle85

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think you need to watch it again.

it’s not his on the ball work that is the issue. as soon as we lost it they ran passed him with ease and he never got close to cutting out any of their attacks. for a defensive midfielder he did sod all in that regard.

tidy enough when he has the ball under zero pressure but he’d be embarrassing playing as a CDM by himself
Exactly this. He's ok at keeping the ball (though I'd still argue that he uses it too slowly) but is an absolute liability off it.
 

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What I like about Matic is he likes to take control. He's got his shortcomings now due to age but I really like his bravery and willingness to get on the ball to control things. We need that.
 

roonster09

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Matic is good enough to play few mins as a sub. His legs are gone and he isn't good enough to start.
 

Bobcat

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Hes alright in games like yesterday where the other team are camped around their own box. In fact i'd say hes preferable to both Fred and McTomminay since his ability on the ball is a level above those two

Against energetic midfields that press? Complete disaster
 

Pickle85

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Hes alright in games like yesterday where the other team are camped around their own box. In fact i'd say hes preferable to both Fred and McTomminay since his ability on the ball is a level above those two

Against energetic midfields that press? Complete disaster
Disagree. The number of times he was left training by st Maximin and others was terrifying. He is so slow these days that is so, so easy for anyone up against him to run past him. Our midfield looked extremely open.
 

Bobcat

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Disagree. The number of times he was left training by st Maximin and others was terrifying. He is so slow these days that is so, so easy for anyone up against him to run past him. Our midfield looked extremely open.
To be fair, St Maximin does that with a lot of players, and im not sure Fred would have fared much better. Traore absoloutely tore him to shreds when we played Wolves
 

JanK

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About the midfield, I'd play Bruno a bit bit deeper (an advanced 8, not a 10) and use a 4-3-3 formation. Bruno, Pogba and for ball recycle, VDB.

We are so easily overrun in midfield and we need to have more bodies in there.

A 3-man mid helps to gain more balance and I am certain that Bruno has discipline for it. Pogba-Bruno-McTom/VDB depending on the opposition.

But if I were Ole, I'd do a loan on January and bring whoever is the best DM available.
 

Highfather_24

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Removing Bruno from his advanced role would be tactical suicide. He is half the player when he plays deeper, as seen with Portugal. There is very little upside. Also Matic needs all the help he gets, and having Pogba/Fred alongside him rather than 10-15 yards further forward is much smarter.

4-2-3-1 makes more sense for us. Its not inherently more defensive than 4-3-3, like some think btw. The shape keeps changing on the pitch anyway. Often we are playing 4-3-3, or 4-4-2 or 3-3-1-3.
 

GueRed

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He's done.
He's so easy to run off and is second to a lot of balls.


Tbh Matic in his prime wasnt even a Defensive midfielder!

What he did best was carry the ball forward from deep breaking through the lines linking up play.
His natural instinct is to get the ball and drive forward.
 

MadDogg

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You made out no midfielder would be able to provide cover for a midfield with Pogba and Bruno. Pretty invalid comment to make considering it just simply ain’t true and you just made it up. Just one name for you, Kante. Played that role and won a World Cup with pogba.
France pretty much always play a third hard-working central midfielder when Pogba is there. I recently went through all their matches they've played in the last 3-4 years and in that time Pogba played in a true two man midfield a grand total of four times. All of them against teams outside the top 50 in the world (two of them outside the top 100). The rest of the time there was a third central midfielder in there to help out. Sometimes they get named in midfield, sometimes on the wing, but realistically they are in there to help out the midfield as much if not more than for their work out wide.

Interestingly, when Pogba doesn't play France are much more likely to play only two midfielders and use two proper attacking wingers.

So even for France, against opposition who are generally far weaker than we face in the league and who press much less, next to Kante himself, Pogba still isn't trusted to play that role.
 

Bebestation

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Today we saw Maguire and Varane in the opposition half trying to make passes alot of the time.

We are the right CDM away from having Pogba and Bruno playing in two CAM positions.
 

Hughie77

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Matic is excellent in the single or double pivot when used sparingly.

Play him more than 5 games in a row though and his levels drop drastically. You need to pick the right games for him.
Agree, that's why he is used like that. Fred back in next game.
 

flappyjay

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France pretty much always play a third hard-working central midfielder when Pogba is there. I recently went through all their matches they've played in the last 3-4 years and in that time Pogba played in a true two man midfield a grand total of four times. All of them against teams outside the top 50 in the world (two of them outside the top 100). The rest of the time there was a third central midfielder in there to help out. Sometimes they get named in midfield, sometimes on the wing, but realistically they are in there to help out the midfield as much if not more than for their work out wide.

Interestingly, when Pogba doesn't play France are much more likely to play only two midfielders and use two proper attacking wingers.

So even for France, against opposition who are generally far weaker than we face in the league and who press much less, next to Kante himself, Pogba still isn't trusted to play that role.
I don't know how many times this has to be repeated for the Kante myth to die out.
 

lost7

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I rue the day we let Fabinho sign for Liverpool. That single signing would have literally revolutionised our midfield
 

flappyjay

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I rue the day we let Fabinho sign for Liverpool. That single signing would have literally revolutionised our midfield
Fabinho, Kroos, Thiago could easily been at United, it's mad what our previous 3 mangers were doing.