In other words, Matic is going to get pelters for that performance so I'd better defend him. Same with Martial. Sorry I didn't start Sancho, I should have done. Sorry I didn't bring on Donny, I should have done.
Matic dropping into defence
- Thread starter Mcking
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Does Donny make a good cuppa?
Now he's just talking shit, I now about keeping players confidence but every man and his dog now's that pure bullshit.
I think it's obviously tactics. The way South Hampton normally play is to press high up against the defense while cutting the passing lanes into midfield, stopping you from progressing the ball forward. Hence why it would makes sense to send a midfielder into defence to create that extra passing option.
Problem with today was Southampton didn't press that high. Yet Matic still kept dropping back. We should have reacted and changed tactics.
Also doesn't help that on the occasions we did get Fred on the ball, his passing was atrocious. He had a shocking game. Most of the players did.
Problem with today was Southampton didn't press that high. Yet Matic still kept dropping back. We should have reacted and changed tactics.
Also doesn't help that on the occasions we did get Fred on the ball, his passing was atrocious. He had a shocking game. Most of the players did.
Not a chance that's a real quote.
Literally did what a lot of Rice fans claim he would do for us. If you want Rice then this is the future you want
Watched too many Pep interviews.
I think it is something that Ole allows Matic to do, mostly because of his limitations. It is either let him drop deep and get on the ball, or try to pass to him in congested space and see him lose it because he is slow and ponderous and has no agility to get out of tight spaces.
I can understand that McTominay was injured, but in that case VDB probably was a better partner for him, as he looks to be more compatible with Matic.
From memory, can't think Matic and Fred partnership has ever worked, the last time we tried it I think Leicester beat us in the FA Cup.
I can understand that McTominay was injured, but in that case VDB probably was a better partner for him, as he looks to be more compatible with Matic.
From memory, can't think Matic and Fred partnership has ever worked, the last time we tried it I think Leicester beat us in the FA Cup.
To be fair, is it any more outlandish than asking Matic to continually do it, despite it invariably causing issues for the rest of the team?Do people really think Matic is dropping into defence totally off his own back, and to take a breather?
We have some truly dreadful internet fans.
The thing is surely everyone on our bench can notice it, because I can, because it's very obvious. There's a slight clue in Matic being stood 20 yards too far back all the time, and another in the multiple times a half he gets caught being too slow in possession regardless. Another clue is our inevitable inability to pass the ball to our forwards.
I mean if Ole and his coaching staff aren't there to notice stuff like this and address it, what are they there for?
I could understand a bit more if we set up tactically to play with a deep midfield and counter in order to suit Matic, like we used to with Carrick (although I don't see how Matic would be good enough to make it work in the way Carrick did), but we don't do that. We just put him in the team and then fail to understand why our midfield falls on its face. Then two weeks later we do the same thing again.
It's been going on for over two years now. We haven't changed anything. We haven't tried to sign anyone to avoid having to do it. We haven't tried using anyone else instead of choosing to revert straight to it. It hasn't magically worked in a single game I can remember.
Somehow our coaches haven't clocked on that it's an issue. If Ole isn't a coach then surely he is the manager of the coaches so it just makes it even more dumb. You can bet within the next 4 games we'll try it again. I was baffled why we spent so much in Sancho without trying to sort our midfield out, but this is why...because our management still haven't clocked on that our midfield needs sorting out.
Have Matic and Fred ever won a match together? I genuinely am not sure.
Matic played like he was carrying bags of cement on his shoulders. Everytime the ball broke free he was not even 2nd to it, he was about 4th/5th as our other players around him got over there quicker
Opposition strikers will absolutely love it. Like being chased by a snail.
It'd be cool if he was intentionally chatting shit, but I'm not entirely sure he doesn't actually believe what he says. Which is more worrying really.
Like, if he didn't think Matic was excellent then why did stay on for 86 mins? His actions match his words.
Fred's job is to run around like a headless chicken, and Matic's job is to clean up after Fred.
The dude is stealing a living, has no business still playing in Epl.
I think it was interesting what Rice said the other day, that he can do the prettier and more progressive stuff and this season he’d take more chances
Don’t think so. I noticed that too.
I have a weird thing about having 2 left footed midfielders. So whenever they start as the 2 I say we will drop points and we always do just that
As many problems as I felt this caused today he also covered Maguires ass a good few times and did kinda well defending. However it then left a massive hole in the middle as all we had was Fred in there. Not the first time this has happened either.
If it’s a tactic then Bruno needs to drop in midfield to help Fred or whomever is in thereso we can at least work some easy possesion. If it’s not a tactic then Matic needs to pull his finger out and get in midfield as we simply can’t carry Matic and Bruno not doing work in midfield.
If it’s a tactic then Bruno needs to drop in midfield to help Fred or whomever is in thereso we can at least work some easy possesion. If it’s not a tactic then Matic needs to pull his finger out and get in midfield as we simply can’t carry Matic and Bruno not doing work in midfield.
When were these few good times he saved Maguire's arse?
Its clearly an instruction, however i do wonder if it has ever worked?
Maguire and Lindelof are capable of playing that ball out of defense. Now if Matic was in midfield they would have the option of passing to him too. That means an extra opposite player has to mark him. Now they have an extra player to go on Fred because Matic drop into central defense and we have three central defenders.
Surely any decent coach should be seeing this?
Surely any decent coach should be seeing this?
Matic has been doing that consistently for at least couple of years now when he's played. This thread is 8 months old. It's not a tactic adapted to today's game, it's just how he plays.
It's also evident that this tactic doesn't work because with Bruno playing like an attacker and Matic like a CB, Fred is alone in CM which makes it difficult to receive the ball and find a team mate. Considering Fred isn't immediately available and AWB is also a liability on the ball, the first pass out of defence is out left to Shaw almost 90% of the times. Who then tries to exchange passes with Fred and Pogba to move the ball forward. It and becomes so predictable and easy to defend it makes the eyes roll to the back of my head half the times I see our attack unfolding.
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I mean Pogba was playing on the left for most of the game, So I guess you mean Isolated Fred??
I too don't believe they have. They really don't gel well together
I think most of the issue is
A: It pushes Fred to the right side of midfield, which he isn't as comfortable playing.
B: He often ends up leaving Fred alone by himself in midfield to act, this then allows him to get pressed easier so he ends up trying to get rid of the ball too quickly and make mistakes.
It's no coincidence that whoever Matic plays in midfield with they end up looking rushed in possession. Honestly the only person who actually made it look possible is Van De Beek.
As soon as I saw him on the team sheet I was concerned. I don't think it requires hindsight to be worried about him against a team and manager who are known for having good workrate and physicality. I knew he'd be back to his old ways of picking the ball up extremely deep to try and find space and getting harried into mistakes.
If we are going to use him it should be with a preference for games where the other team sits off. We can use his passing but we can't expect anything else at this point. It shows our lack of depth in these areas that once McTominay is injured we resort to him when he is ill suited.
If we are going to use him it should be with a preference for games where the other team sits off. We can use his passing but we can't expect anything else at this point. It shows our lack of depth in these areas that once McTominay is injured we resort to him when he is ill suited.
I've no problem with him dropping in to make a back three, it lets both your full backs attack really high at the same time, its a very normal tactic you see frequently in football. The issue is that the team didn't respond to it. The full backs didnt push on and no-one made up the missing man in the middle. So it looked like a sort of 5-1-3-1, with Fred alone in the middle of the park and Southampton easily cutting off the passing lines. It didn't help that, tactics aside, Matic had a really poor individual game.
The dropping in isn't so clever when we're building play, that's an issue. It's fine to cover as you describe but when he does it when we're in possession it vacates the midfield and you're left with Fred high and dry as the main point of contact, and he isn't particularly confident in those areas. Pogba and Bruno can support but only to an extent from those positions.
We also have Harry Maguire and Lindelof who are adept at passing so it isn't exactly doing us favours. He's not really adding anything by receiving the ball so deep, it's just covering his own deficiencies and leaving us short.
Perplexing. He was dropping back and making sideways passes to Lindelof and Maguire in the end - first half, that is.
These were passes that were so basic that it was baffling. Maguire and Lindelof better at picking passes than Matic so why leave Fred utterly isolated?
These were passes that were so basic that it was baffling. Maguire and Lindelof better at picking passes than Matic so why leave Fred utterly isolated?
I'm assuming the idea is that Matic occupies the central spot and draws the press, which allows him to pass it sideways to Maguire or Lindelof who will have gotten themselves a bit higher and wider, and therefore probably in a better position to progress the ball up the pitch.
Whether it's needed or even works is a different thing entirely.
Whether it's needed or even works is a different thing entirely.
The idea is that someone else has to support in midfield. If you've pushed up both full-backs into high attacking areas you no longer need your wide attackers to provide width, so one or both of them can come into the middle. In this case that would be Pogba and/or Greenwood. Both those players prefer to be in central areas anyway I think. In our case, the FBs didn't push up so Pogba couldn't come fully central and Greenwood stayed wide, meaning we had big gaps in the middle with a lonely Fred there and an overcrowded defence. But that doesn't mean the system is objectively bad, it just means it wasn't done right. After all most teams will leave three players in nominally defensive positions unless they're really chasing a goal. Whether its two CBs and a FB or two CBs and a DM, its the same number of people committed to the role. Its not like we're losing an attacking talent by playing Matic as one of those.
The real question is whether Ole wanted him to do that or not, and if he did, why no one else joined in.
It doesn't actually help us though, if anything it hinders us.
We don't want to push our fullbacks up stupid high as they're better coming from deeper positons with momentum. We also lack the speed to cover a counter attack.
Is having Lindelof/Matic/Maguire as a back 3 really going to be any better than if he was just doing a normal job in midfield? not for me.
The more I hear/read what Ole is saying the more I am becoming a believer of the multiverse. There's no way I was watching the same game Ole was watching.
Your FBs don't have to stay high at all times, that's not the point. Rather they both can join in as much as they need to without one of them having to think about the counterattack all the time.
You're right about the lack of pace in the defence, but in conjunction with De Gea being super slow to come out and cover, its not a problem that a simple formation change can do much about anyway. That needs personnel change.
Ole was apparently happy with him and Martial, calling Matic's performance 'excellent'.
If anyone thinks United are going to be winning either the Premier League or Champions League with Matic in midfield they are living in lala land.
Ole continuing to play the likes of Matic will see him out of a job soon.
Ole continuing to play the likes of Matic will see him out of a job soon.
Ole's comments mean literally nothing. He's never once talked down a player in public after a match.