Anyone who wants RB Leipzig current midfielders means underrating our current midfielder. Their two pivot midfield are pure work horse type of player who has great work rate, definitely something that manager like Klopp, Ole & Mourinho love. And it's also something we already have, Scott McTominay & Fred.
Matic/Fred/McTominay - do we really need to sign a new DM?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
No I don't think so if Pogba stays. We have good options in midfield. It is the attack that needs the boost mainly. I would focus on that.
Yeah I can see that - pressing wise & as you say; workhorses, we are generally well equipped. I also thought that dropping Fred to CDM just makes him a presser type CDM & Mctomminay too but I think I prefer the latter as a box to box. If we do end up looking at a CDM in the future we will probably have to look at a different type possibly when Matic's time is up but he seems good for now too.
How is Laimer? Is he any good?
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I just dont see that formation working for us.We definitely need to improve as Matic is aging. For me we need to always play 2 CDM’s even with Pogba back. To be able to accommodate the 3 plus Fernandes along with not stopping both Rashford and Martial playing to their strengths as pacey strikers, we should play the below formation.
<a href="https://ibb.co/cJdZrD2">
This allows the defensive cover for the defenders while also allowing Pogba to concentrate on doing his thing as defensive work takes away his strengths. It also allows Pogba and Fernandes to link up as our creative sparks, with Fernandes being the AM/False Nine.
Then having Martial and Rashford play as Wide Forward/CF hybrids. Alternating between playing wide and playing inside. Allowing to not take away the teams wide pacey attacking play but also to keep strong central play in midfield.
Pogba and Fernandes would occupy the same space and look for the ball in the same area.
Martial has settled into a No.9 position, Rashford has found form from a LW position - this formation plays to neither's strengths
Playing 4 central midfielders in this formation means we have zero backup for any position, bar Matic.
Lack of width throughout.
We ideally need another DM signing to rotate/phase Matic out. Our squad has lacked quality depth for some time. We need to stick to the 4-2-3-1 or a variation of it (4-1-2-3). Goes without saying some games will call for tactical adaption, such as 3 at the back but for the midfield area in particular we need to ensure we have quality throughout and the only way that happens is by a new signing and less game time for lingard/pereira and arguably Mata
United's two DMs are Matic and Garner. Garner needs a loan; he needs to demonstrate he can do the job before you'd trust him over a season. Fred and McTominay are really box-to-box. At a pinch, I'd play McTominay as the sole DM, with instructions to curtail his attacking game. I'd never trust Fred as United's sole DM. United should have 3 players for every position. The first 2 in the squad; the 3rd an under-21 and/or out on loan.
Out of the 3 players mentioned, only Matic fits the description of defensive midfielder. Fred is a busy bee who wants to play a more advanced position, and McTominay is a box - box midfielder.
I quite like Rice, who has developed well during the season, is still way off his peak and not quite the finished article.
A diamond in the rough so to speak. So..... Yes. A defensive midfielder would come in handy.
I quite like Rice, who has developed well during the season, is still way off his peak and not quite the finished article.
A diamond in the rough so to speak. So..... Yes. A defensive midfielder would come in handy.
We play with two central midfielders begin a number 10,our current options are Pogba,Fred,Mctominay and Matic that's is four for two position, the moment we decided to extend Matic contract meant we weren't signing a DM,that's going to be next summer business unless Matic can impress enough to get another extension or Garner has a breakthrough besides most teams don't have more than one out and out DM and they aren't always starters especially if you want to play attacking football
A Fred-Pogba duo behind Fernandes would work considering the nature of our full backs
A Fred-Pogba duo behind Fernandes would work considering the nature of our full backs
I genuinely think there are plenty fans in our fanbase who just live for transfers. Moreso than the actual team and games at times.
I do think likes of fifa and football manager etc are part of the issue. You don't need to sign a whole new team all the time. You can develop what you have which I think Ole has shown signs that's he's doing that better than Jose, LVG n Moyes ever did. Rashy n Martial are getting better. Fred has come on a lot as has Mctomminay.
We have some tremendous players at our disposal now as well as some fantastic young prospects too. I just hope we give Ole the time to finish the job he has started. Our fans don't seem to have a great deal of patience though sadly.
I do think likes of fifa and football manager etc are part of the issue. You don't need to sign a whole new team all the time. You can develop what you have which I think Ole has shown signs that's he's doing that better than Jose, LVG n Moyes ever did. Rashy n Martial are getting better. Fred has come on a lot as has Mctomminay.
We have some tremendous players at our disposal now as well as some fantastic young prospects too. I just hope we give Ole the time to finish the job he has started. Our fans don't seem to have a great deal of patience though sadly.
Aren't you also one of those?
McTominay is far too erratic with his passing right now to be considered as an automatic choice as DM. There is a reason Matic is back in the side even though he cannot break into anything beyond a light jog. Until that side of Scotty’s game improve we absolutely need someone more consistent with the ball at their feet as DM.
Actually, the reason Matic was back in the side is because we had 0 fit CM's. McTominay and Pogba were injured and Matic was the only choice.
He played well and like all managers do, is reward consistency. You could see once scotty came back we did look better as well in the midfield, he is a real powerhouse.
We can give all the labels to McT, but it should not be ignored how he has improved considerably. Last season, no one gave him a chance to succeed here, this season he has improved, his passing, shooting has all improved.
I would give him the rest of the season to show us he can play there alongside Pogba and Bruno.
With everyone fit for Spurs it will be interesting to see who gets the last spot in midfield.
Will have to say Matic, but it'd be so harsh on Fred
Will have to say Matic, but it'd be so harsh on Fred
The issue with McTom is rather positioning, game reading and somewhat tackling imo. His tackling is decent but not enough for a good DM. Please note that we're discussing DM not DLP. His passing is pretty ok for a DM imo.
He has the tenacity, is very brave and physical, and pretty fast for a guy of his size. He can keep the ball under pressure as well. Also great stamina. Personally I would rather wait a year for him to develop, to see if he can play as a DM than splashing 50m on another young DM or go 100m for a WC DM. Good DM is rare and expensive these day anyway. We should better focus our cash on a WC RW. Of course if there's a chance on snapping some WC DM with a reasonable price we should go in as well. Imo there's no point in spending 50m on a young DM while we already have McT. At least we should give him a year to see what he can do I think.
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We currently have 5 midfielders, we will nearly always play 3 in any match so I think we need 1 more to share the workload
The only DM listed there is Matic. The other two are box to box. And while Matic has done well this season, he is getting on so a DM should be on our list, just not the top of the list...
The club has triggered Matić's contract extension, so on past form they're likely to offer him a one-year only contract after that. He's towards the end of his career, so we will need a specialist replacement, which McTominay and Fred (both fine players) are not. There will be matches where we can't rely completely on more attacking midfielders. However, given the counterattacking football we're playing now, and the tendency for defenders to get forward, there will be a temptation not to replace him, unless there's someone available and good enough who's prepared to play a relatively low number of games.
It's not an absolutely must for this or next season, RW is clearly the big priority. We also have Garner, who's a bit of an unknown quantity in the first team as yet, and we're yet to see if and how Fosu-Mensah figures (he's also had his contract extension triggered). We do need a Carrick-type player before long, though, and these matters can suddenly go from being a longer term one to an urgent one (as we saw with Rio and Vidić).
It's not an absolutely must for this or next season, RW is clearly the big priority. We also have Garner, who's a bit of an unknown quantity in the first team as yet, and we're yet to see if and how Fosu-Mensah figures (he's also had his contract extension triggered). We do need a Carrick-type player before long, though, and these matters can suddenly go from being a longer term one to an urgent one (as we saw with Rio and Vidić).
Btw, Matic is a top man and we must keep him as long as possible.
He is after all, the man.
He is after all, the man.
We should be in for Zakaria
At the moment no because he have decent quality there while we are one injury away from having to go back to Lingard and Pereira, so RW and depth for CM/AM is much more important imo.
These remaining 9 games would answer the question. I just hope we would be in for an actual DM if the answer is yes
Currently no, as we also have Garner as back up and Fred did ok there.
We can't really sign any midfielders unless some leave which doesn't look likely
We can't really sign any midfielders unless some leave which doesn't look likely
I rewatched both the City and LASK games in the last couple of days.
One thing that really stood out was the dynamic between Fred and McTominay. When the ball came down our right wing, McTominay went to press whilst Fred sat deep. Then when the ball came down our left, the Fred pressed and McTominay stayed back. It was vital to the way we shut down City, in particular. It seems likely that this is what Solksjaer sees as the proper way to play a double pivot.
I think the question that Ole will be asking himself is: does Pogba have the workrate to press for half the game and the discipline to sit for the other half? I'm not so sure.
People have a point when they say that the first choice midfield should be Bruno-McTominay-Fred. February to March was the first time we've had fully functioning midfield in ages. By rights, Pogba should have to earn his way into the side by proving he can do the job of one of the three he's replacing.
Ultimately, I'm fairly sure that Pogba will start. But the more I rewatch of our pre-lockdown games, the less convinced I am that it should be accepted as the default.
One thing that really stood out was the dynamic between Fred and McTominay. When the ball came down our right wing, McTominay went to press whilst Fred sat deep. Then when the ball came down our left, the Fred pressed and McTominay stayed back. It was vital to the way we shut down City, in particular. It seems likely that this is what Solksjaer sees as the proper way to play a double pivot.
I think the question that Ole will be asking himself is: does Pogba have the workrate to press for half the game and the discipline to sit for the other half? I'm not so sure.
People have a point when they say that the first choice midfield should be Bruno-McTominay-Fred. February to March was the first time we've had fully functioning midfield in ages. By rights, Pogba should have to earn his way into the side by proving he can do the job of one of the three he's replacing.
Ultimately, I'm fairly sure that Pogba will start. But the more I rewatch of our pre-lockdown games, the less convinced I am that it should be accepted as the default.
Found this interesting in this Ducker article.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...allenges-paul-pogba-show-leadership-inspired/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...allenges-paul-pogba-show-leadership-inspired/
Yes we definitely need 1... ideally Ndidi otherwise VdB. I would prefer Ndidi but I think VdB will be easier to get this summer. He can play in CDM role.
Pereira should be sold this summer.
Next year we are more than likely to loose Pogba and Matic will be gone too.
If we can sign VdB this year and get Ndidi the next, our midfield will be sorted with Fernandes, VdB, Ndidi, Fred, McT and Mejbri.
Pereira should be sold this summer.
Next year we are more than likely to loose Pogba and Matic will be gone too.
If we can sign VdB this year and get Ndidi the next, our midfield will be sorted with Fernandes, VdB, Ndidi, Fred, McT and Mejbri.
Facts. I've been saying this for the last 3 months. McTominay is 1st choice under Ole with everyone fit. Everyone knows Bruno and Pogba are in the best XI, and have been wondering who of the other 3 starts with them. As great as Fred has been this season, and Matic in recent months, its been obvious since the start of the season that McTominay is Ole's guy.
Our best midfield is
Bruno
McTominay Pogba
No. McTomonay is the guy long term. Matic and Fred provide different combinations between that position and Pogba/Bruno. When Matic goes, Garner steps up. If Pogba goes, we re-evaluate and change some things up but replace him. If he stays, makes no sense to buy anyone.
We have depth, now that we signed Bruno. Bruno, Pogba and McTominay are starters. Injuries to 2 of the 3 lead to Bruno or Pogba partnering Fred and Matic. Very good. Injuries to all 3 lead to Pereira or Lingard or Mata as the 10, yeah, but you can't plan for that many injuries. Plus with Gomes/Mejbri, we have youth that can be the creative midfielder for the future, and Garner providing deeper potential.
The only caveat is that if we get to final of Europa, we have 13 games left this season, and virtually no pause before next one starts.
that’s 75 odd games with only a short winter break.
In that type of squad planning I can see the point in getting in another body early, and release one next summer.
I believe so too but where did you get this idea Mctominay is first choice
because hes always played whenever ole has had the opportunity to play him.
McTominay is not a DM. If that is our plan, McT behind Pogba and Bruno and Lindelöf/Maguire CB and De Gea in goal, we will leak goals like crazy. No balance and weak spine in the middle. Maguire will have to do defending and bringing the ball out on his own, while we won't be able to get the ball high up the pitch
No we don’t not urgently but we should be looking to phase matic out with a younger player while he’s still in the squad to give the new player time to settle in and take the pressure off.
McTominay in a midfield two cannot work as long as he cannot pass through the lines, recycle the ball, and retain defensive discipline.
So many of you forget that once Bruno came, the first choice central midfield trio that was most effective was Fred-Matic-Bruno.
Matic brings composure, reading of the game, and can pass so much better than McTominay. Yes he cannot run as fast or isn't as mobile, but he doesn't have to be effective for his team.
So many of you forget that once Bruno came, the first choice central midfield trio that was most effective was Fred-Matic-Bruno.
Matic brings composure, reading of the game, and can pass so much better than McTominay. Yes he cannot run as fast or isn't as mobile, but he doesn't have to be effective for his team.
The issue with Matic is that he cannot play a large number of games consecutively; he can play some, which is contrary to belief, but not enough to be our first team defensive midfielder. Still, he has deteriorated from his peak at Chelsea, so he does need replacing himself. Hopefully, this transfer window will see it done.
McTominay may have the strength and height desired for the role, but he does not have the passing. His pass completion is only 79.4% in the Premier League, which is nowhere near good enough. It is not like he is constantly trying to break the lines with defence-splitting passes, but just simple side-rolled ones. He gives it away far too often. Either he is easily pressed or just is a poor passer - in Europa League his passing % is 88.1%, but nosedives against much better opposition. (Fred's only drops from 90.4% in Europa League to 87.2% in the Premier League).
Defensively, McTominay is better than Fred in certain areas: heading and outmuscling opponents (though, he was knocked off the ball a few times by Lamela yesterday), but not in others. Fred makes more tackles, blocks, and interceptions per game. This also brings into account McTominay's positioning, which can be dodgy at times.
Fred does not have the strength nor height but is a far better passer than McTominay. His average pass completion is 87.2% with more long balls, more key passes, more crosses, and more passes in general when compared to McTominay. It shows that Fred is trying more complicated passes and is still completing a far higher percentage. Fred also seems to have limitless energy and is quick; he has the fastest recorded speed for Manutd this season. Fred is better at positioning, but he can be outmuscled at times.
I think if you want to challenge for titles, you cannot afford to have a player that cannot pass. For comparison, Fernandinho' pass completion last season was 87% with more long balls and passes than McTominay (Used last season as he has played as a defender this season); Fabinho's is at 85.4% with more long balls and more passes. In this aspect, McTominay is nowhere near up to standard. Matic has seen a drop himself; at his peak, he used to be a 86% to 88% pass completion player, but now is 84%.
Matic is the best as he has the most assets needed for the role, but only for the short term. We need a defensive midfielder if we are going to play Pogba and Fernandes next season. Matic, Fred, and McTominay are not the answer. Matic, however, is for the remainder of this season.
McTominay may have the strength and height desired for the role, but he does not have the passing. His pass completion is only 79.4% in the Premier League, which is nowhere near good enough. It is not like he is constantly trying to break the lines with defence-splitting passes, but just simple side-rolled ones. He gives it away far too often. Either he is easily pressed or just is a poor passer - in Europa League his passing % is 88.1%, but nosedives against much better opposition. (Fred's only drops from 90.4% in Europa League to 87.2% in the Premier League).
Defensively, McTominay is better than Fred in certain areas: heading and outmuscling opponents (though, he was knocked off the ball a few times by Lamela yesterday), but not in others. Fred makes more tackles, blocks, and interceptions per game. This also brings into account McTominay's positioning, which can be dodgy at times.
Fred does not have the strength nor height but is a far better passer than McTominay. His average pass completion is 87.2% with more long balls, more key passes, more crosses, and more passes in general when compared to McTominay. It shows that Fred is trying more complicated passes and is still completing a far higher percentage. Fred also seems to have limitless energy and is quick; he has the fastest recorded speed for Manutd this season. Fred is better at positioning, but he can be outmuscled at times.
I think if you want to challenge for titles, you cannot afford to have a player that cannot pass. For comparison, Fernandinho' pass completion last season was 87% with more long balls and passes than McTominay (Used last season as he has played as a defender this season); Fabinho's is at 85.4% with more long balls and more passes. In this aspect, McTominay is nowhere near up to standard. Matic has seen a drop himself; at his peak, he used to be a 86% to 88% pass completion player, but now is 84%.
Matic is the best as he has the most assets needed for the role, but only for the short term. We need a defensive midfielder if we are going to play Pogba and Fernandes next season. Matic, Fred, and McTominay are not the answer. Matic, however, is for the remainder of this season.
The main problem is that trio de gea maguire lindelof + martial rashford discontinuity