That would be a good argument if he didn't had an elite goal ratio in CL too and that he maintained it in the KO stage. Neither PSG nor Monaco are supposed to be dominant in Europe. In the CL Mbappé has 19 goals and 13 assists in 32 games.
Matteo Darmian: 'Rashford can reach Mbappé level and win Ballon d'Or'
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He's still scoring at twice the rate of rashford in international and European competition though... And of course a chunk of those European and league games were with Monaco
Stop with your logic. Rashford would be very lucky to become as good in his peak as Mbappé in his teens. It’s not a hit at Marcus, it’s either people are overrating him due to being a United forum or people really don’t watch Mbappe he is different level
IMO Mbappe is right now or even few years ago was ahead of Rashford. Mainly because Mbappe was man managed better than Rashford had under Mourinho. Mbappe managed to get lot of games in Ligue 1, learnt & developed. While Rashford was more of a part rotation with Martial under Mourinho and playing in a tougher league that if you played poor, you'll be rotated with Martial. As a result, the way how he learnt & developed is different to Mbappe. As soon as Ole took in charge and made Rashford as his regular attackers, you can see the improvement.
And as for this thread. Based on natural talent Mbappe is slightly above but doesn't mean the player will never reach the same level. Messi was always have higher natural talent than Ronaldo to me and look at both of them are competing.
Mbappé is simply more talented, he was a star at youth level and played like an elite player almost from day one. Man management isn't the only difference between them but it's true that if Rashford was at Monaco he would have played more and the same is true for Germany, both countries don't care about age, they care about each player individually some are physically and mentally ready to play regularly at a young age and Rashford was in my opinion one of those players. If you take Martial as an example, he wasn't ready and didn't play as many games as Mbappé did.
I don't understand what's your point related to what Darmian said about Rashford and also what RedRonaldo said.
I think everyone said Mbappe is more talented & currently is slightly above Rashford. However, it doesn't mean Rashford cannot reach Mbappe level one day. Your hypothesis about the goals we'll never know, at the end of the day, EPL is a tougher league than Ligue 1. And Mbappe is also playing in more a dominant side.
I didn't comment on what Darmian said, so I don't know what you are looking for. And I made the point that Mbappé's record isn't special due to Ligue 1, he has a special record in CL and he didn't play for teams that are particularly dominant at CL level..
If you want to talk about "didn't play for teams that are particularly dominant at CL level", it should be anything after group stage not in the group stage.
This is why I never really like judge player based on cup competition. I prefer league competition where you judge them based on week in week out performance.
Mbappé has 7 goals in 12 CL knockout games, he is on the same rhythm than players like Lewandowski and Messi.
Rashford cant even play in tight spaces and we think there is a chance he will ever win the balon d'or. He will have a great career at United considering we keep improving and thats okay.
On a separate note Im happy he is back in time to finish the season. I need him to pad his stats. He was doing exceptionally well before the injury.
On a separate note Im happy he is back in time to finish the season. I need him to pad his stats. He was doing exceptionally well before the injury.
Yeah 6 goals of them were scored in 16/17 season alone in 6 CL knockout games, while 1 goal scored in his last 6 CL knockout games. The record with PSG is nothing compared to single season he had with Monaco. The Messi comparison is not comparable and unnecessary at this point.
Last edited:
What is your point, we don't count all his goals? Did he score those goals and assists because he was in Ligue 1? Is 1 goal and 2 assists in 6 CL KO games a bad record?
I made my point clear enough already, so I shall repeat it again.
Mbappe in the past years was considered to be above Rashford and even now I'll still place him slightly above Rashford. I had explained it before in detail about how both players received different type of learning & development process under their managers which affect both players progress as player.
The gaps in few years back between Rashford & Mbappe was big, but until this season is when Rashford started to closed the gaps due to Ole's man management on him which lead to lot of discussion about whether Rashford can reach Mbappe level. There is no much gap different anymore between Rashford & Mbappe on current level in my opinion, and in my point of few, it's fair to say Rashford, Mbappe & Sancho are top 3 best young players right now or may be I should say top 3 best young attackers right now.
I never say Mbappe's record is a bad record. Anyone did?
So you are having your own conversation.
RedRonaldo already mentioned that Mbappe is ahead of Rashford right now. But the goal stats don't really justify the big difference between the two players. I can't believe you still don't get it.
You are having an argument with yourself, I haven't made the point that you are disagreeing with.
Are you just doing random reply to someone?
What's your purpose mentioning Mbappe's CL stats and the way how you described it? I view it as you made Mbappe as different class to Rashford and Mbappe is already on par among the best ones.
RedRonaldo tried to draw a conclusion based on Mbappé scoring loads of goals in Ligue 1 when Mbappé also scores loads of goals in the CL. His theory would work if Mbappé wasn't doing it against everyone in all competitions.Are you just doing random reply to someone?
What's your purpose mentioning Mbappe's CL stats and the way how you described it? I view it as you made Mbappe as different class to Rashford and Mbappe is already on par among the best ones.
RedRonaldo was having discussion to other poster who mentioned that Rashford ain't closed to Mbappe by showing the goal stats.
The poster point was clear that he thinks Mbappe is above Rashford but not as far as what the other poster mentioned which is why he made statement that he doesn't think Mbappe could score the same amount that Mbappe did in Ligue 1 if we replaced the league to EPL.
I think you are the only one here who didn't know where the discussion started.
And I made the point that he can't make that statement based on Mbappé's goals stats outside of Ligue 1.
Edit: And I'm out of that exchange.
I have said this like multiple times already the poster point was very clear that he thinks Mbappe is above Rashford but not as far as what the other poster mentioned
The reason why he's talking about league goals is because that's how to judge the difference between Rashford & Mbappe, how both players perform week in week out. Rashford only had two seasons playing in CL.
Rashford will become a top player but he won't reach Mbappe level. Mbappe is several steps ahead of him. That isn't a bad thing to say re Rashford. I'm sure he showed this season he can be one of our best players in the future.
Good argument. If and when Rashford can present a consistent performance at CL or even Europa level, then we can start talking again. If he can match Haaland's level, we can start celebrating, but not yet.
I mean for sure, Mbappe is the best young talent in the world at the moment, and over past few years too, I don’t think anyone will disagree to that - he is simply the best young player in the world.
But question is, can Rashford match that level? Base on their performance over past few seasons, there’s no comparison, which is quite obvious.
But how about this season? Let’s see:
Rashford 19-20
League: 14 goals in 22 games
Europe (EL): 4 goals in 3 games
Club overall: 19 goals in 31 games
International (2019): 4 goals in 7 games
Mbappe 19-20
League: 18 goals in 20 games
Europe (CL): 5 goals in 7 games
Club overall: 30 goals in 33 games
International (2019): 3 goals in 6 games
Performance wise both Rashford and Mbappe has been impressive this season.
But stat wise we can see Mbappe is still comfortably ahead, but the gap is getting smaller for sure.
But bear in mind majority of the goals Mbappe scored are in French league against weaker opponents, and in a very dominant side too (PSG regularly beat their opponents by at least few goals In French league, even without playing Neymar, Mbappe etc)
So in view of above, the gap between Mbappe and Rashford, could actually be smaller this season.
Now let’s look at some examples of players stats in French and English league in the past, in terms of their best season in respective league within 1-2 years apart, to give a more accurate comparison:
Ibrahimović
15-16: 38 goals in 31 games in French league
16-17: 17 goals in 28 games in English league
Depay
15-16: 2 goals in 29 games in English league
17-18: 19 goals in 36 games in French league
Lacazette
16-17: 28 goals in 30 games in French league
17-18: 14 goals in 32 games in English league
As you can see, it’s quite common for same players to score double their amounts of goals in French league as compared to English league. The standard between the two leagues are definitely not the same.
So by the same logic, could Mbappe still score 30 goals in 33 games for us this season in England? I’d doubt it, I think maybe he could score around 20 goals, which is similar to what Rashford did. But we could never know for sure.
Now let’s look at the stats of other top players in England this season:
Rashford: 19 goals in 31 games
Salah: 20 goals in 40 games
Kane: 17 goals in 25 games
Agüero: 23 goals in 30 games
Sterling: 20 goals in 39 games
Rashford is already among the top in England this season, even comparing with all these world class players. So I do really think Rashford is currently playing very near to Mbappe level, if not at the same level already.
But question is, can Rashford match that level? Base on their performance over past few seasons, there’s no comparison, which is quite obvious.
But how about this season? Let’s see:
Rashford 19-20
League: 14 goals in 22 games
Europe (EL): 4 goals in 3 games
Club overall: 19 goals in 31 games
International (2019): 4 goals in 7 games
Mbappe 19-20
League: 18 goals in 20 games
Europe (CL): 5 goals in 7 games
Club overall: 30 goals in 33 games
International (2019): 3 goals in 6 games
Performance wise both Rashford and Mbappe has been impressive this season.
But stat wise we can see Mbappe is still comfortably ahead, but the gap is getting smaller for sure.
But bear in mind majority of the goals Mbappe scored are in French league against weaker opponents, and in a very dominant side too (PSG regularly beat their opponents by at least few goals In French league, even without playing Neymar, Mbappe etc)
So in view of above, the gap between Mbappe and Rashford, could actually be smaller this season.
Now let’s look at some examples of players stats in French and English league in the past, in terms of their best season in respective league within 1-2 years apart, to give a more accurate comparison:
Ibrahimović
15-16: 38 goals in 31 games in French league
16-17: 17 goals in 28 games in English league
Depay
15-16: 2 goals in 29 games in English league
17-18: 19 goals in 36 games in French league
Lacazette
16-17: 28 goals in 30 games in French league
17-18: 14 goals in 32 games in English league
As you can see, it’s quite common for same players to score double their amounts of goals in French league as compared to English league. The standard between the two leagues are definitely not the same.
So by the same logic, could Mbappe still score 30 goals in 33 games for us this season in England? I’d doubt it, I think maybe he could score around 20 goals, which is similar to what Rashford did. But we could never know for sure.
Now let’s look at the stats of other top players in England this season:
Rashford: 19 goals in 31 games
Salah: 20 goals in 40 games
Kane: 17 goals in 25 games
Agüero: 23 goals in 30 games
Sterling: 20 goals in 39 games
Rashford is already among the top in England this season, even comparing with all these world class players. So I do really think Rashford is currently playing very near to Mbappe level, if not at the same level already.
Last edited:
Agreed.
I remember talking to my football mates before the first PSG match last year. I was terrified of Mbappe and others said "but you have Rashford". Well I told them that if Mbappe is 10 then Rashford is only 6. Please note that I've always been a very big fan of Rashford.
In the eyes people may generally think the two are at a comparable level. Both very fast, good dribbler, good finisher etc. However Mbappe is faster than Rashford, and he is fast enough so defenders usually surprised at how fast he is and make mistakes once they realize that. But the most important thing about Mbappe is despite his young age, he is very football matured. Knowing to do the right thing at the right moment.
Good thing is Rashford has been better at this. This year I'd give him a 7.5 if Mbappe is 10.
@RedRonaldo You made a mistake here when you mentioned Lacazette for two reasons. First Lacazette struggled in Europe and secondly if you look closely at his stats, Lacazette scored 10 penalties in those 28 goals, his goals/assists ratio is actually pretty close in the CL and L1. Regarding Memphis he has grown as a player, so I'm not sure about the type of conclusion we can draw while Ibrahimovic had an exceptional season that he wasn't going to replicate his previous seasons ranged between 19 and 30 goals which is where he would have been without his injury and he was at the end of his career.
And I don't even know what you are trying to do, no one suggested that both leagues where at the same level but that your argument doesn't have legs when Mbappé does it in the CL against the likes of Napoli, Bayern, United, Real Madrid, Dortmund or Liverpool. You can dismiss Ligue 1 if you want but how do you explain that Mbappé has a far better goal and assist ratio in CL than Rashford has in EL, the EL is a weaker competition in which United has always been the biggest club, yet Mbappé registered more than twice as many goals and assists?
And I don't even know what you are trying to do, no one suggested that both leagues where at the same level but that your argument doesn't have legs when Mbappé does it in the CL against the likes of Napoli, Bayern, United, Real Madrid, Dortmund or Liverpool. You can dismiss Ligue 1 if you want but how do you explain that Mbappé has a far better goal and assist ratio in CL than Rashford has in EL, the EL is a weaker competition in which United has always been the biggest club, yet Mbappé registered more than twice as many goals and assists?
Yes. The talk of goals or physical contribution isn't half as important as reading and understanding of the game, and that's where Mbappé (and Sancho) stand out for being so aware and astute at ages where players in that age group generally make lots of mistakes and are learning the ropes, which is par for the course and where our own Rashford is at.
Mbappé has intelligence over even physical attributes, and it is what separates him from the pack and has him ranked as an expectant ballon winner, and further, someone who will be mentioned as one of the greats of his generation, and possibly into all-time rankings. Barring injury or going off the rails, this has been seen as a given for him for a long time now.
Rashford, it's really hard to call where he'll take his game to - a leap in decision making and reading of play, and he enters a different conversation; as of now (the season up to injury), he's well on the way to making alterations that elevate his threat and game, but he is still prone to bad decisions and moments of unnecessary greed. One might call that 'the Cristiano method' but he, himself modified and honed a style of play that few would argue against being the consensus smart thing to do in that particular moment, at the same time, he worked on his off the ball movement and became conducive (and a conduit) for the team to look for and go through.
Our players don't look at Rashford in that way, yet, but we're some way from his journey being concluded.
Rashford with Mbappé's sly eyes like demon would be a very interesting proposition.
You are not reading my post well, I’ve emphasis many times, prior to this season Mbappe is easily better, there’s no comparison between the 2 really, so you don’t have to keep bringing up his stats in CL in previous seasons to support your claim, because there no point for doing so.
Now back to this season, are you really trying to argue goals scored in French league are just the same as goals scored in Premierleague? And your really think Mbapoe can match his goals tally and score 30 goals this season at United?
I mean, I thought it’s just consensus that it is easier to score in French league than in England, and there are just plenty of examples over the years to support that claim.
But anyway, my point being, Mbappe is currently the best young player in the world, but Rashford performance/stats this season is getting near to that level. Regarding goals in CL or WC, players like Salah, Agüero, Kane etc all had scored a lot of goals in CL or WC too, but their numbers in England are similar as Rashford this season.
Last edited:
No, I'm telling you that Mbappé goals in Europe follow the same trend, he is an elite goalscorer in CL too. I literally told you that you could dismiss is L1 goals.
So that’s literally what I’ve said too, majority of goals he scored this season is L1 goals. To compare this season, there not much difference between the two.
?
Rashford has one goal in the EL in 4 games. Mbappe has 5 goals and 5 assists in 7 CL games.
It wouldn't be the craziest bet in the world. I mean:
1. He's one of the best attackers in the world under the age of 25.
2. He's only 22 years old.
3. He's a fighter.
4. The Ballon d'Or is almost always given to attacking players.
1. He's one of the best attackers in the world under the age of 25.
2. He's only 22 years old.
3. He's a fighter.
4. The Ballon d'Or is almost always given to attacking players.
Of the 4 games Rashford started 2, Mbappe 4 games.
I quite like this because 3/5 goals in CL came against Brugge, the same team we beat 5-0 at home in the EL this season. The CL might have better quality when it gets to knock outs, but how many times has Mbappe scored in knock outs this season?
Also looking back since he joined PSG, he has scored against us in knock outs, that is it.
Not saying he is not an exceptional talent, but Rashford has scored big goals.
This season absolutely, Lewandowski has been superior and Haaland too.
This season he has one assist in a little bit more than a game in the knockout stages. And no one said that Rashford hasn't scored big goals but the reality is that Mbappé has 19 goals and 13 assists in 32 CL games, his L1 record isn't an outlier which is what was insinuated and what I responded to.
I am not disputing his numbers, nor am I saying Rashford is the same level. We have to look at things in perspective too. Mbappe is playing in a team full of stars, Rashford is the only star in the United team. I do feel Mbappe is on a higher level to Rashford anyway.
And I responded to someone that did, I specifically responded to that.
Fair enough, I know it is the french league but he does seem to love scoring goals.
Lets be honest, we all know Mbappe will score loads of goals whichever league he will play at and he will be a marquee player in every team.
I judge it this way, ask any fan of the top teams, will they take Mbappe, the answer will be a solid yes.
Ask them will they take Rashford? You will have Madrid, City, Pool fans all thinking hmm maybe not.
I think Lewandowski is quite clearly the best striker in the world, yep.
Haaland has had a phenomenal season and like JPRouve says in terms of this season, definitely. But Mbappe has been consistently doing this since the Monaco 16/17 season. I know stats aren't everything but it's what Strikers are judged on mostly and Mbappe backs it up every season in every competition - his record in the league, cups and CL are all fantastic. Youngest player to reach the goal tally he is on currently in the CL. It doesn't matter what level your teammates are to do that - if it did we could be asking why didn't x manage it? They clearly weren't as good individually as Mbappe.
Mbappe scored a hat trick as a substitute (38 mins) so I don't think it matters too much, plus as I said above he's been doing it since Monaco 16/17 when he was 18 with 6 goals in the CL knockout stages against City, Dortmund and Juventus.
Anyway, I am not saying Lewandowski and Haaland isn't great this season, but to draw conclusion based on 6 or 7 games (majority are group stage) is abit, you know.
And again, for the 3rd or 4th time today, I do think Mbappe is the best young player in the world, over past few seasons. But this season Rashford is great too, I mean, he is one of best best forward in Premierleague this season too. I just don't think their gap at current level is as large as some suggested here.