I'd say he is slightly above average. He doesnt do a lot wrong and you can see his talent. He's no Busquets yet though and the way they play now, they have 3 identical midfielders without depth. It's lobotomizing to watch. He'll be fine though, but I wish he had gone to the premier league. Just cant bring myself to follow Barca.Haven't been following La Liga much recently, but I thought de Jong started quite well at Barca? That's until the Dembele & Suarez injuries basically destroyed any semblance of "balance" they had upfront.
Relying on Pique/Busquets/Rakitic/Vidal is more of an issue. Maybe Vidal less so, but there's just a worrying lack of pace/physicality throughout that Barca team, which will see them possibly end this season empty handed.
Thanks for the response. Yeah, they have some big issues there, especially now with Suarez out and Dembele gone through his second year missing/injured. Crazy to think that they actually also signed Griezmann, when they've been crying out for some pace and power in that side.I'd say he is slightly above average. He doesnt do a lot wrong and you can see his talent. He's no Busquets yet though and the way they play now, they have 3 identical midfielders without depth. It's lobotomizing to watch. He'll be fine though, but I wish he had gone to the premier league. Just cant bring myself to follow Barca.
I dont think that is the reason we got Maguire and not de Ligt. De Ligt had the option to go to Juventus or Barcelona and Maguire could only go to Manchester United. De Ligt didnt want to go here and Maguire did want to go. Also you could argue that getting de Ligt would have been better than getting Maguire.Credit to Manutd here. Could have gone in and offered Mino and De Ligt 250k a week and all sorts but stuck to our guns and got Maguire instead.
I wouldn't be arguing the latter just yet. He's been a bit shit for Juve.I dont think that is the reason we got Maguire and not de Ligt. De Ligt had the option to go to Juventus or Barcelona and Maguire could only go to Manchester United. De Ligt didnt want to go here and Maguire did want to go. Also you could argue that getting de Ligt would have been better than getting Maguire.
Maybe he can gently nudge his shoulder, he'll drop down screaming Im sure.The problem with Frenkie is that his best position would be the position of Busquets. Now who is going to drop Busquets?
Strange how this has become what a lot of people think. Because it's not true.The problem with Frenkie is that his best position would be the position of Busquets. Now who is going to drop Busquets?
City were after Maguire last summerI dont think that is the reason we got Maguire and not de Ligt. De Ligt had the option to go to Juventus or Barcelona and Maguire could only go to Manchester United. De Ligt didnt want to go here and Maguire did want to go. Also you could argue that getting de Ligt would have been better than getting Maguire.
How so? Maguire has shown he is what we required not just on the pitch but off it. He is experienced in the PL, a leader and a real presence in the dressing room. Can you say the same with De Ligt at his age now? Maybe in the future he will be that player who knows.Also you could argue that getting de Ligt would have been better than getting Maguire.
How, exactly, could you argue that at this point in time?Also you could argue that getting de Ligt would have been better than getting Maguire.
A bit of patriotism, I'm guessing!How, exactly, could you argue that at this point in time?
I dont think there is much difference in quality between Matthijs de Ligt and Harry Maguire.How, exactly, could you argue that at this point in time?
I'd probably agree with what you're saying but Barça doesn't play double pivot, so its not an option. Barça didn't perform well because the team would of course have to adapt a bit to Frenkie's style which is a lot different than the one of Busquets. With Busquets their full backs move up and their center backs move wide while Busquets drops back between them. This suits Busquets but not Frenkie. Frenkie is more effectively used in front of the defence inside opposite players. So in order to still start building up with 3 man in a line Barça would need a full back to sit deep to allow Frenkie the position in front of them. The only players suited for that is Roberto. Frenkie only played once as CDM with Roberto as RB ... when Barça trashed Sevilla 4:0.Strange how this has become what a lot of people think. Because it's not true.
Check the games Frenkie played at Busquets' position. He didn't play that well at all.
The reason for this is that he isn't at his best in a single pivot system. If you want to use his quality you should always play him from the left in a double pivot system.
But ehm..De Ligt...Juve.
Ofcourse... people here (understandably) overrate Manchester United players. That Manchester United was never an option for de Ligt and that he also has Raiola working for him doesnt help de Ligt his case either. If de Ligt did sign for Manchester United last summer he would have been hailed as the best defender since Rio i imagine.Wait, people are now actively happy that we've signed Maguire instead of De Light?
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I get your point but generally any mistake defenders make tends to be looked upon as massive blunders bc more often than with any other position it results in the most severe punishment possible: a goal, a Pk, and/or a possible sending off. How often do we not hear it being said about our own defenders: "he s pretty good, but he s always good for one big mistake in a game" etc.De Ligt's issue is that he's prone to massive blunders, despite his talent. He needs to iron them out otherwise he'll always be accused of being 'overrated'.
I don't doubt De Ligt is talented but last summer United required not only a talented defender but also an experienced one esp. PL experience. That experience and leadership in the last few months have vindicated getting Maguire instead of maybe De Ligt in our current situation.I dont think there is much difference in quality between Matthijs de Ligt and Harry Maguire.
I do understand that this is a Manchester United forum and that Maguire is 1) captain, 2) English 3) played well recently and that i should overrate Maguire as one of the best in the world but i really dont think Maguire is that much better (if better at all) than Matthijs de Ligt.
They did cost about the same, have comparable qualites in leadership, attacking headers and both are good defenders. However de Ligt is much younger, does have experience playing in the semi final CL, played the nations league final, played in the CL, won the golden boy award and part of last season FIFPro XI last year. Also de Ligt is capable of sprinting and turning without it looking awkward... something Maguire isnt capable off. I do think Maguire his lack of agility could cause some problems in the future. Not that de Ligt is the most agile defender in the world but he is more agile than Maguire. De Ligt is also much younger so i could see him become much better, defenders usually do get better with age.
De Ligt didnt start great at Juventus with all the hand balls but he has recovered of his bumpy start and is playing fairly well right now. He also had to play as a left central defender at the start of the season while he is used to playing right central defender. It might be a small thing but when you are that young and arrive in a new country, new club and have to play a totally different style than he was used to, it does make a difference.
Ofcourse you dont know how de Ligt would have done if he came to Manchester United in the state Manchester United was in during the better part of the season. However i do think de Ligt has the mentality and leadership qualities to have stepped up like Maguire has done recently. I am not saying that signing Maguire was a bad move because he is the best defender at the club but i doubt that signing de Ligt would have been a worse move. It might even have been a better move long term. It was never an option to sign de Ligt however since de Ligt never wanted to join Manchester United.
That's just not true. Clubs track players like them for a long, long time. Possibly years.He was simply overrated (just like De Jong) because of two good games in CL against big clubs and a nice 7 min youtube compilation made from 40 hours of football.
agreed. He’s the right player who could partner Maguire. Right player, without doubt it would have been the wrong time last summer.I don't doubt De Ligt is talented but last summer United required not only a talented defender but also an experienced one esp. PL experience. That experience and leadership in the last few months have vindicated getting Maguire instead of maybe De Ligt in our current situation.
Bollocks mate.I dont think there is much difference in quality between Matthijs de Ligt and Harry Maguire.
I do understand that this is a Manchester United forum and that Maguire is 1) captain, 2) English 3) played well recently and that i should overrate Maguire as one of the best in the world but i really dont think Maguire is that much better (if better at all) than Matthijs de Ligt.
They did cost about the same, have comparable qualites in leadership, attacking headers and both are good defenders. However de Ligt is much younger, does have experience playing in the semi final CL, played the nations league final, played in the CL, won the golden boy award and part of last season FIFPro XI last year. Also de Ligt is capable of sprinting and turning without it looking awkward... something Maguire isnt capable off. I do think Maguire his lack of agility could cause some problems in the future. Not that de Ligt is the most agile defender in the world but he is more agile than Maguire. De Ligt is also much younger so i could see him become much better, defenders usually do get better with age.
De Ligt didnt start great at Juventus with all the hand balls but he has recovered of his bumpy start and is playing fairly well right now. He also had to play as a left central defender at the start of the season while he is used to playing right central defender. It might be a small thing but when you are that young and arrive in a new country, new club and have to play a totally different style than he was used to, it does make a difference.
Ofcourse you dont know how de Ligt would have done if he came to Manchester United in the state Manchester United was in during the better part of the season. However i do think de Ligt has the mentality and leadership qualities to have stepped up like Maguire has done recently. I am not saying that signing Maguire was a bad move because he is the best defender at the club but i doubt that signing de Ligt would have been a worse move. It might even have been a better move long term. It was never an option to sign de Ligt however since de Ligt never wanted to join Manchester United.
Eh, mostly too many handballsI take it he hasnt been great for Juve this season then?
Agreed, lets just for once agree that we done the better deal. If De Ligt came with the hige pressure on such a young man, every mistake would be highlighted. The media are less likely to highlight such mistakes when he is England No. 1. That has helped him settle here and become a leader.Bollocks mate.
For what we need right now, Maguire is a far better option then De Ligt. Its one thing to Captain the best team in the dutch league while having zero pressure on you in the CL (always the underdog - see capitulation at the hands of Spurs when they were favourites) then being the Captain of Manchester United.
Safe to say he'd be no better than a young Evans in the premier league at the same age.
De Ligt has shown leadership qualities and great mentality. De Ligt already had the pressure on him at Ajax that he always needed to win the game, Maguire never had that before he joined Manchester United. The ''having to win'' is a totally new experience for Maguire. Zero pressure in the CL? De Ligt came up with some important goals at the most important moments, Ramos-like moments. De Ligt played high pressure CL games, played a Europa League final and also played a nations league final. He has had to deal with more big games with lots of pressure on it than Maguire.Bollocks mate.
For what we need right now, Maguire is a far better option then De Ligt. Its one thing to Captain the best team in the dutch league while having zero pressure on you in the CL (always the underdog - see capitulation at the hands of Spurs when they were favourites) then being the Captain of Manchester United.
Safe to say he'd be no better than a young Evans in the premier league at the same age.
Right... so Evans who was a key part of our 2009 league title campaign was overrated?De Ligt has shown leadership qualities and great mentality. De Ligt already had the pressure on him at Ajax that he always needed to win the game, Maguire never had that before he joined Manchester United. The ''having to win'' is a totally new experience for Maguire. Zero pressure in the CL? De Ligt came up with some important goals at the most important moments, Ramos-like moments. De Ligt played high pressure CL games, played a Europa League final and also played a nations league final. He has had to deal with more big games with lots of pressure on it than Maguire.
Comparing de Ligt to a young Evans... yeah, that proves the point of overrating Manchester United players and/or underrating other players.
I dont think de Ligt would have done worse than Maguire. Matthijs de Ligt didnt have the best start at Juventus but Maguire didnt have the best start either.
Evans did play with Rio/Vidic next to him and Edwin van der Sar behind him while being managed by a genius who could make average players look like good players. That certainly does help to look good. Evans is a good premier league defender... nothing more and nothing less. He was never going to be a defender that Barcelona or Juventus would fight over or any other big European club would go for. Something de Ligt achieved before turning 20 years old.Right... so Evans who was a key part of our 2009 league title campaign was overrated?
Right now wonder boy isnt looking any better than Chris Smalling in the same league (I'd say Smalling is actually having the better season of the two).
Maguire was the far better option to have for us last year.
That is a good point though.. British media would have labeled de Ligt a waste of money and come up with 'why didnt Manchester United didnt sign Harry Maguire.. a Premier League proven England international.. look how Leicester is doing!'. The Dutch tv is also the complete opposite of the English when it comes to Maguire. English tv dont show his bad moments and focus on the good moments of his game while the Dutch tv love to laugh at the weaker sides of the worlds most expensive ,more expensive than Virgil van Dijk, defender.Agreed, lets just for once agree that we done the better deal. If De Ligt came with the hige pressure on such a young man, every mistake would be highlighted. The media are less likely to highlight such mistakes when he is England No. 1. That has helped him settle here and become a leader.
de Ligt looks like every other posh young wanker from the Netherlands, Slab God's head is fecking legendary. No contest there. In actual footballing terms, current de Ligt joining us would have been the absolute worst move for both parties. A reforming United side and defence, combined with a young starlet centre back with huge pressure in a ridiculously fast paced league where all of your mistakes and flaws are magnified to the nth degree. The main talking point would have been his transfer fee + wages, 'cos there's no way he would have come here and revolutionised the backline as he would have been expected to do.Also, De Ligt doesn't look like a bitch-Stewie style clone of Pedro Pascal.
