Rooney drank himself to a premature retirement to cope with the pressure, hopefully Dowman has more knowledgeable folks around him to help if this hype train and his development continues.
Max Dowman
- Thread starter trevor newnham
- Start date
-
In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, we interview Duncan Drasdo of MUST - covering ticket prices, new stadium, INEOS and what fans should be demanding from our club.
Also, due to technical issues we couldn't put a notice up for the previous episode which was about the game against Bournemouth and other stuff. If you'd like to listen to it, click here.
Rooney drank himself to a premature retirement to cope with the pressure, hopefully Dowman has more knowledgeable folks around him to help if this hype train and his development continues.
If it wasn't for Sir Alex, Rooney would of fizzled out a lot earlier than he did.
Brilliant player but not sure I'd agree he had the mentality to match his talent.
Rooney didn't drink because of the pressure. He drinks because he enjoys it
He didn't have the dedication to preserve his physical attributes because of his DILLIGAF approach to life.
The guy almost quit football because they told him to stop eating fried egg, chips and beans.
Well that's not what he said. He said when he felt really under the pump he would sometimes go home and drink himself to a stupor on his own. That's not enjoyment, that's addiction / coping.
If you say so, I guess we'll have to take your word for it. However...
You're gonna get called out on claims like this, because it isn't accurate.
The article you linked to doesn't contain a single quote. Which is not surprising seeing as a quick Google search (Wenger compares "Gibbs" to "Giggs", if you wanna try it yourself) resulted in the following:
Arsène Wenger never directly compared Kieran Gibbs to Ryan Giggs in a public statement or interview. While Wenger did manage Gibbs and is known for his high praise of players, the specific comparison of Gibbs to Giggs, a legendary Manchester United winger, is not something he is recorded as saying.
This article is Wenger saying that a then 20 year old Gibbs (who went on to win 10 England caps) probably shouldn't be selected for the England 2010 WC squad because he was injured at that point and was unlikely to be fully fit. The headline is 'Arsène Wenger plays down Kieran Gibbs' World Cup chances'.
You're having a 'mare.
Disagreement doesn't equal gaslighting, stop being so dramatic.
Quote from the Article - "Wenger added to the hype surrounding him after the game by saying that Gibbs reminded him of Ryan Giggs."
Quote from the article - "Wenger does see Gibbs, who has impressed on England Under-21 duty, as a great prospect for the future and reckons he will soon make the national team's senior squad."
"I think he will one day play for the national team. I am convinced of that," Wenger added.
Ironic.
Being told something didn't happen or they're imaginary opinions, is the definition of gaslighting. Disagreeing with relative facts is bizarre, however.
I've still not been responded to regarding the clamouring over ESR, which I find comical. As he's another one that was placed on an incredibly high pedestal only to... end up... at... Fulham.
Last edited:
How can you confidently state this about a 15 year old?
Glad to see Carlton Palmer finally getting a deserved shout.
I thought the same. Such an odd statement to make about a young player. Which again feeds into my point of overrating and/or overhyping players for no apparent reason. He's a gifted youngster with a lot of promise and great ability. Why can't it just stay at that level? Why does it have to propel into being the best talent to ever be produced in the nation? Or comparing to some of the mentality monsters of the recent few decades. It's so odd.
Wonder if he'll come on in the second half in this "friendly" against Spurs. Quite the physical game though so it might not be the wisest decision. Being involved in any first team at the age of 15 is a great achievement in itself, but I think Arsenal have to be smart in how they go about this. The physicality in the men's game is different from U-level, and there's a long list of wonderkids whose career was derailed by injuries at an early age.
Edit: Romero has gone off, it should be safer out there.
Edit: Romero has gone off, it should be safer out there.
Last edited:
I don't think you understand how quotes work. When I said there's not a single quote in the article, that obviously means from Wenger. You quoting the article that doesn't contain any quotes from Wenger proves my point - not yours.
Finally, a quote from Wenger, where he predicts that his 20 year old player who had 15 appearances for the U21s would one day get a full cap. Which he did. 10 times.
Quite the smoking gun.
That isn't the definition of gaslighting and I don't know what a "relative fact" is.
Fans of a football club were excited about some of their young prospects and some of them didn't live up to the hype. This isn't breaking news and it isn't unique.
I won't carry on this back and forth regarding quotes, as you're purposefully being pedantic for the sake of it. Wenger claimed these things, end of story.
I know he appeared 10 times, I stated that in my original point. 10 appearances for the national side when people around you are claiming that you are destined for greatness is not the gotcha you think it is. It perfectly backs up my point of players being overrated. Hence why again, I used it in my original comment.
So again, the irony:
Yes it is.
Relative fact, or factual relativism is the philosophical belief that certain facts are not absolute but depend on the perspective from which they are being evaluated. - Wikipedia. I hope that helps.
I know, which is why I stated that United's fanbase do this all of the time as well. I didn't make it an Arsenal problem only. You regurgitating things I've already claimed, to again use it as some form of gotcha is odd. I suggest you read my original post again so we can stop this merry-go-round.
Understanding how quotes work and actually including a quote from the person you claim to be quoting isn't pedantic at all, it's the very substance of your argument. And you know that, it's weird to pretend otherwise.
Not only do you seem to not understand how quotes work, you don't seem to understand the difference between a fact and an unsubstantiated claim.
But the quote (which you selected) was, "I think he will one day play for the national team. I am convinced of that". Where is the claim for greatness? How is it overrating a player to predict that he'll play for his country? In short, what are you talking about?
It's not gaslighting if the things you're claiming happened, did not happen, or if your opinions are based on your imagination.
It did help, thanks. I learned a few things, nothing directly related this thread, though.
This isn't 'gotcha'. No one is out to get you. No one is gaslighting you. You’re just making claims with nothing to back them up on a forum. You linked to two articles, one didn't contain any quotes to support your claim and the other was about Wenger saying Gibbs should not be in 2010 WC squad, which is the direct opposite of what you claimed.
The only reason there is a "back and forth" is you seem incapable of saying, "Yeah, fair point, I quickly scanned those two articles and they don't really back up my points - but I still reckon Arsenal fans overrate their prospects a bit". Instead you decided to double down, for reasons unknown, and play the victim by declaring that...
It's odd behaviour.
Last edited:
Anyway, back to the OP, I think the fact that we have so much depth in Dowman's best positions (Saka / Odegaard / Madueke / Nwaneri) means we can ease him in slowly.
Hopefully that results in us getting the best out his undoubted potential.
Hopefully that results in us getting the best out his undoubted potential.
This thread continues to get more embarrassing.
He had a few good moments in his limited minutes today. Exchanging passes with Odegaard looks like 2 clones playing together.
He tried to do it on his own a few times but you can't blame him, he must be so excited to play with the first team, he wants to impress. I'm sure he will be eased in during Cup games.
PL games is too much too soon, unless we're destroying someone 5-0 at HT, otherwise, little steps and we'll have a very good player (maybe not the greatest the world has ever seen
)
He tried to do it on his own a few times but you can't blame him, he must be so excited to play with the first team, he wants to impress. I'm sure he will be eased in during Cup games.
PL games is too much too soon, unless we're destroying someone 5-0 at HT, otherwise, little steps and we'll have a very good player (maybe not the greatest the world has ever seen
)This is going back to one of the commenters that responded to my original comment, with the below quote (in the quote box). Telling me that no one did these things, is literally the definition of gas lighting. You've decided to chime in again, and further continue it by telling me that it isn't gaslighting. The irony is almost not believable. Do you understand that if you (for example) were to reference an anecdote from your own experiences, to which I received and then immediately dismissed as not being true is quite literally, the sole definition of gaslighting? Do I need to provide the definition of this word as well? The very fact that you're hinting that my opinions are based on my imagination is alarming and again falls directly into the categorical definition of gas lighting.
The modern definition of gaslighting is a psychological manipulation technique in which a person tries to convince someone that their reality is untrue. It is a tactic often used by narcissists to gain control of their intended target.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation where a person subtly tries to make another person doubt their sanity, perception of reality, or memories. It's a tactic used to gain power and control in a relationship, often by making the victim question their own experiences and judgment.
Ignoring everything else because it's a boring merry-go-round that I'm not prepared to continue engaging with.
He's been playing with 18 year olds since he was 13. I'm hoping that stands him in good stead when taking that final step up. Early signs seem promising so far, but it is only pre season.
I do agree with the below though. Many suggest Havertz had a growth spurt late during his time at Leverkusen and that seemed to change his game.
On behalf of all Arsenal fans I apologise for using psychological manipulation techniques to try to control you.
Stay strong.
I wouldn't worry about Max, his technical ability is incredible. He's aready one of your most technical players at his age. His close control dribbling for example is better than Havertz at any stage in the latters career. A really exciting player as long as he stays fit the sky is the limit.
It's just a mild disagreement on a message board. Thousands of those here every day, nobody's gaslighting anyone. Stop being so dramatic.
Saw him play for the first time the other day vs Newcastle. He looks great. I still don't think you can tell way or another if someone has the right personality/mentality to deal with not only being a pro footballer, but an actual starboy that an entire fanbsse is raving about and national media is beginning to hone in on. At 15 years old.
fecking hell, comes on again vs Villarreal, wins a penalty and is the best player on the pitch instantly.
Generational.
Generational.
Does the rules prevent him from playing against us in the first match? Hope so, he looks their biggest threat!
I'm glad we got something because the rest of it isn't looking too great just now.
They might not be able to afford easing him in. They might have a Yamal situation on their hands here!
He’s really talented but I think Arsenal are playing a dangerous game if they have plan to use him regularly in the first team. PL teams will take him out especially being the type of player he is.
He’s 15 I just don’t get the rush and it’s not like they have a squad that is desperate in his position.
He’s 15 I just don’t get the rush and it’s not like they have a squad that is desperate in his position.
After todays events, I thought we put in a bid
He can play in the PL this season.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6052003/2025/01/11/max-dowman-play-fa-cup-15-rules-premier-league/
No but doubt he’ll see much game time early on in the season. He’ll be starting for them at 16/17 however. Biggest English talent in a very long time.
This kid reminds me of Kaka. Always, instantly driving with the ball forward.
General consensus from Arsenal fans is that we need him now.
All our players bar some youngsters and Zubi look off. Saka has peaked. Wish we got a proper LW instead of Madueke.....
General consensus from Arsenal fans is that we need him now.
All our players bar some youngsters and Zubi look off. Saka has peaked. Wish we got a proper LW instead of Madueke.....
Fully expect him to be a Utd player soon, if the lad wants achieve anything in football staying at Arsenal is pointless.
Well let’s be honest if he wants to win things he can do much better than us atm. He’ll be Real Madrid bound by the time he’s 22/23 imo but he’ll likely stay at Arsenal until then. He might very well be the guy that takes them from second to first soon enough also tbf.
I've just remembered this was the thread where someone had a crash out over the most minor of disagreements.
Ah, memories.
Tapping him up like the other two?
I would be very surprised if a boyhood Arsenal fan, whose family are all Arsenal fans, would leave us to join the 16th best team in the league.
I suppose it could happen. But I'd be very surprised if it did