Maybe for the older guys: which utd managers have fulfilled your expectations over the years bar Sir Matt and SAF?

simplyared

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Wow so jealous you were at that game. Robbo carried off the pitch by paddy McCrerand’s son (I think that’s right) well everyone wanted to get to Robbo at that final whistle. Graeme Hogg “I had maradonna in my pocket all night”

Another problem Bojangles had was that pitch. Edwards kept on having Rugby League matches at OT and the surface of our pitch resembled a 1st WW battlefield, mud everywhere, couldn’t play a passing game if you tried.

I’d say he was unlucky not to win the league once specially that season (85 or 86?)we started the season with 10straight wins or something like that and we were top by a few points while Liverpool were languishing mid table. Liverpool won the league that year....... injuries and the pitch are what cost Ron that year imo

We won 2 FA cups which meant a lot back then and the win against Everton 85 was another sweet moment. I liked Ron, he was a good manager for his time but SAF took us to the next level and Ron wasn’t going to. He was drinking with the lads which didn’t help.

Jose also, we did win some trophies with him but I’ve always disliked him since that Porto game at OT.

It’s them two to pick from. Doc I couldn’t ever give a vote to after the incident with a staff members wife, sending him to long distance places and then while he was gone going round the fellas house and sleeping with his missus. We can’t have managers like that, they are untrustworthy regardless of talent and for that reason he is the bottom of the list. It cost him his job, and rightly so, causing disharmony at the club when one of your jobs is to do the opposite. Imagine SMB behaving like that? You just can’t can you.
Morally, of course it was wrong sleeping with the physio's missus behind his back. That said it wasn't exactly a one night stand, he went out in public and said he loved the woman and as far as I know they married and have lived the rest of their lives together. Doubt whether he'd have been shown the door if the same thing happened today. Whatever nothing to do with his footballing achievments as manager. So letting that interfere with his managing skills doesn't make sense to me.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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Walter Crickmer started it all...
Tommy Docherty took over a hopeless team - signed some good players : Macari, G.Daly, Coppell, Hill and Pearson - and he got us playing good football. He is also the only one who didn't get fired because of football-related issues.

So he left Sexton with a fairly young, interesting side.
Docherty also bought some dross....and he actually left Sexton with an average side in many respects.

Docherty's team in the last third of the 1976/77 season had a record of W4 D4 L6...that's 12 points. Relegation form.

Docherty would have needed to over haul that team big style.

We had no proper goalscorer (both Pearson and Greenhoff were 10-15 goals a season type of players)...a keeper who should have gone years earlier in Stepney and only Roche to replace him. A problem at right back, a problem at CH next to Buchan and no bite in midfield as McIlroy, Macari, Coppell and Hill were all attacking style players.

What he did leave Sexton with was a few first rate youngsters like Albiston and Coppell, some attacking midfielders as mentioned and a world class centre half. The team lacked strength in the middle and pace at the back/up front (Pearson/Greenhoff weren't quick). Our squad behind the first 11 was very weak.

Sexton's biggest problem was his transfer policy. Apart from the world class Ray Wilkins, and the up and coming Gary Bailey virtually all his other signings were average until he signed McGrath and Moran as he was on his way out.

Sloan - not good enough
Connell - not good enough
Jordan - couldn't score goals
McQueen - couldn't defend on the ground
Thomas - not United quality
Jovanovic - not suited to 442
Birtles - club was too big for him
Grimes - not United quality

Sexton caused his own problems by buying these players as none of them added any real value in comparison to other options at the time.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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Walter Crickmer started it all...
Morally, of course it was wrong sleeping with the physio's missus behind his back. That said it wasn't exactly a one night stand, he went out in public and said he loved the woman and as far as I know they married and have lived the rest of their lives together. Doubt whether he'd have been shown the door if the same thing happened today. Whatever nothing to do with his footballing achievments as manager. So letting that interfere with his managing skills doesn't make sense to me.
He would still be sacked today. Don't forget, he sent Laurie Brown away on scouting missions so he could have the affair. This is pretty premeditated stuff against one of your employees. HR would have a field day with it. In any other organisation he would be sacked regardless of how good he was at his job.
 

Mr angry

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Of the rest of the managers, my favourite was Tommy Doc.. He had to make a lot of tough decisions to clear out the remnants of the 68 team who had hung around too long, plus a few iffy signings immediately after that win, and create a new exciting team which played great football.
 

tyrone2003

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I always thought the Doc would have won a title if he had kept his togs on...
LVG was building a side for the future. His plan was stay 3 years move to DoF & let Giggs reap the rewards.
 

tyrone2003

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He would still be sacked today. Don't forget, he sent Laurie Brown away on scouting missions so he could have the affair. This is pretty premeditated stuff against one of your employees. HR would have a field day with it. In any other organisation he would be sacked regardless of how good he was at his job.
But seems HR have no problem if you sleep with your sister-in-law
 

Denis' cuff

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Tommy Doc.

Think there was a fair chance we'd have won a title with him. Football was great. What sticks in my mind more than anything, though, was the atmosphere around the club. Always a real buzz. Even more so than in the Law, Best, Charlton days, maybe. Tommy Cav running around the touch line with his magic sponge, grinning and waving at fans all the way around. Remember the ground rocking after beating Liverpol at OT and driving home, the Doc was on the radio... "Aye son, even the pigeons were dancing today". Always had a quip. United fans at their best before it all became sanitised.
 

GodlovesUnited

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The shock is nowhere close to comparison. But in retrospective, comparing the two teams, and how key players have performed in laters years, how SAF was able to constantly shift the starting 11 while still making them perform... Ranieri found the golden formula with the 11 starting players and almost never had to make changes. From a managerial standpoint (which is what we are discussing, not Leicester winning the league which I agree is a much bigger shock) I think there are reasons to state that what SAF was able to do with that squad is at least comparable to what Ranieri did with his squad. And, I, personally rank SAF 12/13 higher than Ranieri 15/16.

Not team, but the managerial performance which could have been mistaken in my ambiguous original post.
I see what you're getting at, but season after season, even with better players, Fergie outperformed almost every other manager in the world. He won the league and was highly competitive in Europe with Anderson, Tom Cleverly, and Darron Gibson as starting midfielders. So you shouldn't be surprised that you're getting criticized for shortchanging what was surely Ranieri's greatest season as a manager and easily the biggest surprise in premier league history.
 

lysglimt

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I would say Big Ron and Mourinho are pretty much the same story. They spent a lot of money and made it work for a while, and then it all fell to pieces - and the guy after came in and had to do a pretty thorough Clean-up job.
 

BR7

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Morally, of course it was wrong sleeping with the physio's missus behind his back. That said it wasn't exactly a one night stand, he went out in public and said he loved the woman and as far as I know they married and have lived the rest of their lives together. Doubt whether he'd have been shown the door if the same thing happened today. Whatever nothing to do with his footballing achievments as manager. So letting that interfere with his managing skills doesn't make sense to me.

in my opinion part of a mangers role isn’t to cause conflict at the club, it’s part of his duties to instil good morales and values within the club. It’s part of the job role at OT not just results on the pitch etc.....

If managers behave like that what’s to stop players behaving like that, the mess and turmoil it could cause a squad can be drastic. His management skills come into serious question forget his ability to manage on the pitch alone. This ain’t Sunday league football. I expect the highest standards of morality from any manager of this club.
 

padzilla

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We have not won the league in more than a century when Busby or Fergie were not the manager.
 

NewGlory

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Mourinho. Simply, with him we were again giant club. We won trophies( especially EL with which we became club with all trophies won), finished second, bought some world class players in Zlatan and Pogba. We were the Manchester United.
Mourinho's constant whining about how we were not one of the big clubs anymore and how fecking Sevilla apparently had more "football heritage" didn't really contribute to whatever imaginary "were again giant club" fantasy you are trying to refer to. You can say many things about Mourinho's time here, but saying he made us feel like a great club again is shocking. The motherfecker was depressing as shite. You kidding?
 
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Andycoleno9

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Mourinho's constant whining about how we were not one of the big clubs anymore and how fecking Sevilla apparently had more "football heritage" didn't really contribute to whatever imaginary "were again giant club" fantasy you are trying to refer to. You can say many things about Mourinho's time here, but saying he made us feel like a great club again is shocking. The motherfecker was depressing as shite. You kidding?
What his whining has to do with this? You don't like him? Ok, fine. You don't like his attitude? Fine again. But under Jose( first season), when we played against City for example whole world was watching, all newspapers wrote about it and those two seasons we were second favourite for title by the bookies. And oh yes; we were winning trophies. Like club big as us, should do or at least aim to do it.
Today we are bloody laughing stock.
 

NewGlory

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What his whining has to do with this? You don't like him? Ok, fine. You don't like his attitude? Fine again. But under Jose( first season), when we played against City for example whole world was watching, all newspapers wrote about it and those two seasons we were second favorite for title by the bookies. And oh yes; we were winning trophies. Like club big as us, should do or at least aim to do it.
Today we are bloody laughing stock.
Try to not get over-excited. He won EFL Cup - a trophy nobody really cares for, including Mourinho (in his own words), and Europa League - the competition that is below anybody who actually considers themselves great. The whole point of winning the latter was to get back to the actual competition great clubs care for - Champions League. And then we get knocked out of that one by fecking Sevilla and our manager told us those nobodies had more "footballing heritage". So yeah - you do you, but the rest of us didn't feel that great under Mourinho, in part because he kept making the point of saying how United is a nobody, to excuse his own shortcomings.
 

Denis' cuff

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Try to not get over-excited. He won EFL Cup - a trophy nobody really cares for, including Mourinho (in his own words), and Europa League - the competition that is below anybody who actually considers themselves great. The whole point of winning the latter was to get back to the actual competition great clubs care for - Champions League. And then we get knocked out of that one by fecking Sevilla and our manager told us those nobodies had more "footballing heritage". So yeah - you do you, but the rest of us didn't feel that great under Mourinho, in part because he kept making the point of saying how United is a nobody, to excuse his own shortcomings.
Which is still more than anybody else did

You don't like him? Get over it.
 

NewGlory

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Which is still more than anybody else did

You don't like him? Get over it.
Calm down. The debate was whether he made fans feel as a great team, and not whether he won more of meaningless trophies than other managerial flops
 

Andycoleno9

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Try to not get over-excited. He won EFL Cup - a trophy nobody really cares for, including Mourinho (in his own words), and Europa League - the competition that is below anybody who actually considers themselves great. The whole point of winning the latter was to get back to the actual competition great clubs care for - Champions League. And then we get knocked out of that one by fecking Sevilla and our manager told us those nobodies had more "footballing heritage". So yeah - you do you, but the rest of us didn't feel that great under Mourinho, in part because he kept making the point of saying how United is a nobody, to excuse his own shortcomings.
I don't get you. You open new topic in every post.
Who had best results? Jose
Who finished highest? Jose
So did you feel great under him is your problem but we were much greater than under Ole. Now we look as midtable club.

And btw, you are making stuff up. Jose always repeated how we are giant club and compared us with other giant clubs. Ole and Moyes on other hand...well i guess you saw what our manager said in last few weeks.
 

NewGlory

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And btw, you are making stuff up. Jose always repeated how we are giant club and compared us with other giant clubs. Ole and Moyes on other hand...well i guess you saw what our manager said in last few weeks.
I am the one making stuff up? That is funny… They must be broadcasting some alternate reality in Croatia, or you were hearing what you wanted to hear, or maybe you were not watching him talk at all and are just looking up stats on the internet. That roach of a manager used every single chance he got to put us down, including the time when he excused his abysmal performance against Seville by declaring that Seville has "more footballing heritage" than United. I hate to break it to you but fecking Seville is not a "giant club" so saying we cannot compete with the likes of them is the opposite of comparing us with giant clubs.

Ole has never ever said anything offensive or negative about United. He is doing a huge rebuild and nobody in their sane mind expects him to win huge trophies in his first full season of a massive rebuild, but he's NEVER used an excuse of "we are shitty club" to explain a loss. Never.

These are the actual facts, so I don't know where you get yours from.
 

Full bodied red

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A problem at right back, a problem at CH next to Buchan and no bite in midfield as McIlroy, Macari, Coppell and Hill were all attacking style players.

I thought Alex ' The Mule ' Forsythe was better than OK. Him and Stewart Houston were not particularly World Class, but 40 years before their time as attacking FBs. Didn't we call them our ' Bionic Defenders ' for their all round defending / attacking / scoring talents ?

And I wouldn't have had Big Jim Holton as a problem, Again, not World Class, but an aboslute hero for all of us who were lucky enough to see him. Would The Doc have been more patient for his recovery from his broken leg ? Probably so.....
 

Al-T

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Docherty for me. 4-2-4, Coppell and Hill, the epitome of swashbuckling wingers. Always something happening and the FA Cup win in '77 deprived the Dippers of the Treble.

Happy days.
 

Fitchett

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Mangnall for me. Our only other league winning manager, plus he signed my great uncle! Of the ones I have watched in my life time, it would have to be Docherty, Atkinson, Van Gaal and Mourinho. All four had real qualities along with major flaws. Hopefully, Solskjaer will become league winning manager no. 4.
 

Andycoleno9

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I am the one making stuff up? That is funny… They must be broadcasting some alternate reality in Croatia, or you were hearing what you wanted to hear, or maybe you were not watching him talk at all and are just looking up stats on the internet. That roach of a manager used every single chance he got to put us down, including the time when he excused his abysmal performance against Seville by declaring that Seville has "more footballing heritage" than United. I hate to break it to you but fecking Seville is not a "giant club" so saying we cannot compete with the likes of them is the opposite of comparing us with giant clubs.

Ole has never ever said anything offensive or negative about United. He is doing a huge rebuild and nobody in their sane mind expects him to win huge trophies in his first full season of a massive rebuild, but he's NEVER used an excuse of "we are shitty club" to explain a loss. Never.

These are the actual facts, so I don't know where you get yours from.
You didn't read fully what he said when he talked about football heritage, didn't you? Look it up.
On the other hand we have coach who says how it is good when United lose once per month and how we managed to get respect from City.

But again, we talk about under what manager we were great again. And imo Jose had best results and best league finish. Lvg had trophy plus decent league position. Moyes and Ole had/have negative records. So debate Jose vs LVG vs Moyes vs Ole is pretty clear.

And btw; by winning EL we became only 5th club in Europe which have all titles. I think that it is big achievement
 

RedIan

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Tommy Doc era was when i started as a regular in the Stretford end standing on the Tunnel. Great days, the atmosphere was awesome and the football exciting and of course we won the FA cup in 77 which was mega at the time as we had won sod all for years. I was gutted when he got sacked for nicking Mary Brown of our Physio

sexton was boring... 4 years of sod all

Big Ron team were great, he was a flamboyant character and we managed to finish 3rd and got a nose bleed. Great team Robson Moses whiteside Stapleton...Hughes etc... and Fa Cup wins.

Fergie - slow start but slowly but surely got a grip and changed the whole club for the better - awesome once up and running with trophies. Halcyon days for sure. Probably wont see again in my life time.

Moyes. - wasn’t backed with cash or no one Wanted to sign for him. Job to big for him.
LVG the most boring football ive seen at OT in my life, just awful. Stopped going to games as felt i was wasting cash.
JM - won a couple of trophies but football was dull, parked the bus far to often. Turned toxic in his last season and had to go.

Ole - Jury is out.
 

Denis' cuff

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Calm down. The debate was whether he made fans feel as a great team, and not whether he won more of meaningless trophies than other managerial flops
Perfectly calm, as was my post.

I'd say you need to,take your own advice, pal, looking at your replies in this thread.
 

Denis' cuff

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Docherty also bought some dross....and he actually left Sexton with an average side in many respects.

Docherty's team in the last third of the 1976/77 season had a record of W4 D4 L6...that's 12 points. Relegation form.

Docherty would have needed to over haul that team big style.

We had no proper goalscorer (both Pearson and Greenhoff were 10-15 goals a season type of players)...a keeper who should have gone years earlier in Stepney and only Roche to replace him. A problem at right back, a problem at CH next to Buchan and no bite in midfield as McIlroy, Macari, Coppell and Hill were all attacking style players.

What he did leave Sexton with was a few first rate youngsters like Albiston and Coppell, some attacking midfielders as mentioned and a world class centre half. The team lacked strength in the middle and pace at the back/up front (Pearson/Greenhoff weren't quick). Our squad behind the first 11 was very weak.

Sexton's biggest problem was his transfer policy. Apart from the world class Ray Wilkins, and the up and coming Gary Bailey virtually all his other signings were average until he signed McGrath and Moran as he was on his way out.

Sloan - not good enough
Connell - not good enough
Jordan - couldn't score goals
McQueen - couldn't defend on the ground
Thomas - not United quality
Jovanovic - not suited to 442
Birtles - club was too big for him
Grimes - not United quality

Sexton caused his own problems by buying these players as none of them added any real value in comparison to other options at the time.
Think calling Wilkins "world class" is a bit of a stretch. Made some of our current lot look positively adventurous with his with his safety first sideways passing. Superb in his last season when he decided to jump ship, indicating the gig was too big for him but relaxed once the pressure was off. Similarly, Jordan's last season was his best, too. Agree, never a prolific scorer but after the King left, we never did find a prolific scorer until Fergie arrived. George put in some some terrific numbers considering he was essentially a winger/wide man. Amazing, when you look at the strikers we brought in, especially under Ron.
 

Class of 63

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He would still be sacked today. Don't forget, he sent Laurie Brown away on scouting missions so he could have the affair. This is pretty premeditated stuff against one of your employees. HR would have a field day with it. In any other organisation he would be sacked regardless of how good he was at his job.
It was a funny one that, weren't they all living together in the same house at the time? And he would still be sacked today, but Tommy thought he'd get away with it as he knew several of the Boardroom who voted to sack him were playing hide Mr Sausage with somebody other than their Wives at the time.
 

Stepney73

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Docherty by a country mile. Took over a bunch of ageing relegation-bound has-beens and created a tremendously exciting, attacking, and very young team that were an absolute joy to follow.
Spot on

My first season watching Utd was the 73-74 season and we went down but once he'd cleared all the deadwood and got players like hill,Coppull,Daly and the like he transformed the clubs fortunes.

Younger fans won't appreciate what winning the FA cup was like back in the 70s but I remember my dad treating the family to a fish and chip supper on the day we beat Derby in the 76 semi and we were all gutted losing to Southampton in the final.

But 12 months later we beat the scousers 2-1 and lifted the cup(the commentator saying "Pearson 1-0" still gives me goosebumps 44 years later)

That 2-1 win is still in my top 5 moments of supporting Utd to this day.

The doc for me all day and as a bonus I met him at a sportsmans dinner about 20 years ago.

Top bloke.
 
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711

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Spot on

My first season watching Utd was the 73-74 season and we went down but once he'd cleared all the deadwood and got players like hill,Coppull,Daly and the like he transformed the clubs fortunes.

Younger fans won't appreciate what winning the FA cup was like back in the 70s but I remember my dad treating the family to a fish and chip supper on the day we beat Derby in the 76 semi and we were all gutted losing to Southampton in the final.

But 12 months later we beat the scousers 2-1 and lifted the cup(the commentator saying "Pearson 1-0" still gives me goosebumps 44 years later)

That 2-1 win is still in my top 5 moments of supporting Utd to this day.

The doc for me all day and as a bonus I met him at a sportsmans dinner about 20 years ago.

Top bloke.
I checked his ticket on a train once, he was in standard class with a senior citizen's railcard. My first reaction was to move him up to first class and get him a breakfast, but the train was full and standing, and no one around seemed to have noticed who he was, so I decided it was more peaceful for him to stay there than drag him out, especially as we were less than an hour off where he was going. (Birmingham).
 

alexthelion

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Tommy Docherty took over a hopeless team - signed some good players : Macari, G.Daly, Coppell, Hill and Pearson - and he got us playing good football. He is also the only one who didn't get fired because of football-related issues.

So he left Sexton with a fairly young, interesting side.
Exactly, it would have so interesting to see how Tommy Doc could have progressed with the team he was building. I remember those as exciting days, much the same with Big Ron. After SAF nothing has come close feelings-wise until now with Ole.

It's the potential and wanting to see it mature that gets to you.
 

Furious George

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Big Ron was alright. NWOBHM was in its pomp and Mark Hughes was coming through while booting everyone. I think he even gave Clayton Blackmore his debut.

I liked Ron.
 

Hughie77

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Docherty by a country mile. Took over a bunch of ageing relegation-bound has-beens and created a tremendously exciting, attacking, and very young team that were an absolute joy to follow.
I'd go for that as well, it was at a time when I'd just started following UTD, got us from a relegation to a very good side, Stevie coppel Pearson etc, Then 76 cup final loss telling every one be back there next year which he did in 77 sweeter winning it against pool. Then a strange resignation from him then, but fully documented now. Also I did like big Ron, he was unlucky with his squad. I'd have to put Jose in there, for winning us 2 cups and another final.
 

pauldyson1uk

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Morally, of course it was wrong sleeping with the physio's missus behind his back. That said it wasn't exactly a one night stand, he went out in public and said he loved the woman and as far as I know they married and have lived the rest of their lives together. Doubt whether he'd have been shown the door if the same thing happened today. Whatever nothing to do with his footballing achievments as manager. So letting that interfere with his managing skills doesn't make sense to me.
OH I think he would, at the time when it all came out and the circumstances, the club had no choice but to sack him, does not matter they loved each other and spent the rest of their lives together, how he went round it was just wrong, I remember it well, if the same thing happened now, I would expect the same result.