£80mil shouldn’t buy you decent.Memory’s are very short, completely agree, Maguire has had a decent first season.
We’re battling for fourth because we couldn’t score goals, not because of our goals conceded tally.Doing just fine if battling for 4th is good enough sure
Let’s forget the price tag, it honestly means nothing, I’m not going to judge a player because his price was inflated. He didn’t ask to cost 80 mil, we all know he’s not an 80 mil player.£80mil shouldn’t buy you decent.
The issues with Maguire’s performances are agility & pace; these aren’t relating to form they’re parts of his game we have to find a CB partner to cover for.
So yes, Maguire has had a decent first season but I don’t see that changing unless his ability to move his legs faster increases.
The chances we conceded today weren't because they were getting in behind. In fact, they frequently tried to do just that down our right side and failed every time. Both goals were down to individual error that has absolutely nothing to do with pace. His comment had no context and just continued this preconceived notion that we have issues at the back, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.As we move to being a more aggressive attacking team and take up more attacking positions on the pitch it costs us. Which is the point Rio was making.
We have been quite cautious in attacking earlier in this season keeping more balance. We wont be able to be as aggresive as we can especially in bigger games without some pace in the backline.
Surely you know that GA isnt the only indicator of this
Isn’t that suggestive that individual quality at the back isn’t good enough? Specifically in at CB and GK. There’s been a lot of individual errors.There isn’t a problem.
Our problem was the inability to put the football in the net in line with our rivals; it looks like we’ve made steps to address this somewhat.
The defence continues to concede goals in line with our rivals and has largely done so under three successive managers. Sort of like the way we used to concede goals and make defensive errors under Ferguson. It happens. It only becomes a problem when you score less league goals than Bournemouth, which has been the case in previous years.
And no, I’m not suggesting we can’t improve defensively. But we’re really rather good. Every goal we’ve conceded since the resumption of play has been something of an individual error and I’d like to think we’ll cut them out.
Amen.You cant have 2 slow CBs. One needs to have pace preferably both in an aggressive attacking side. Thats what Rio was saying if you listened to the whole thing.
Given we already had Lindelof Maguire was the wrong signing
Lindelof was the wrong signing that we tried to fix. You want us to have a slow, weak physically & weak in heading ability?You cant have 2 slow CBs. One needs to have pace preferably both in an aggressive attacking side. Thats what Rio was saying if you listened to the whole thing.
Given we already had Lindelof Maguire was the wrong signing
Possibly. But we’ve conceded six in sixteen with those errors in mind. It’s nothing.Isn’t that suggestive that individual quality at the back isn’t good enough? Specifically in at CB and GK. There’s been a lot of individual errors.
Who was talking about today?The chances we conceded today weren't because they were getting in behind. In fact, they frequently tried to do just that down our right side and failed every time. Both goals were down to individual error that has absolutely nothing to do with pace. His comment had no context and just continued this preconceived notion that we have issues at the back, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.
We weren't cautious, we just weren't very good at it. In fact, our inability to create meant we were throwing bodies further forward in games when we shouldn't really have needed to, which results in a few too many sucker punches. If we had Pogba and Bruno fit for the season we would've conceded even less.
Makes zero sense when he is first choice. How about sign a player who is strong and good in the air but also has pace. That would have been smart. If Ole had kept Smalling to partner Maguire then maybe you would have a point but he didnt.Lindelof was the wrong signing that we tried to fix. You want us to have a slow, weak physically & weak in heading ability?
Neither is MaguireLindelofs never going to be Rio/Vidic calibre. Therefore we probably won't be winning a league trophy until he's replaced as a starter.
He's a solid squad player but only AWB and Maguire are definite starters irrespective of Maguires lack of pace.
Shaw and Lindelof need replacing for next season as starters if we want to move into having top 3 expectations.
It’s difficult to forget his price tag when it’s so extraordinary though; no player asks to be worth an amount; mentioning his price tag isn’t criticising him because of it. Not sure how £80mil means nothing [it was 56% of our transfer outlay last summe & we can park the cost of him but does that mean I also have to ignore the potential outlay some on this forum are calling for to get him a defensive partner that covers his deficiencies?Let’s forget the price tag, it honestly means nothing, I’m not going to judge a player because his price was inflated. He didn’t ask to cost 80 mil, we all know he’s not an 80 mil player.
He’s a good defender, reliable, good on the ball and a strong leader. It’s his first season and he has had some poor moments but overall I think he brings a lot.
You have completely missed the point. Unless you believe our defence is of the required quality to challenge for UCL and the league. Which is what the reference to challenging for top 4 was about.We’re battling for fourth because we couldn’t score goals, not because of our goals conceded tally.
Come on, this is pretty simple stuff.
I wonder where you've gotten this view that Lindelof can't pass from? Lindelof may have a few shortcomings but passing is 100% not one of them.Maguire can take too many touches of the ball sometimes but he's much more assured on the ball, Lindelof can't pass and he isn't quick enough to partner Maguire.
It's not that Lindelof is bad, it's just he isn't at the level needed to challenge for EPLs and CLs.
Lindelof would make a fine squad player, but not a starter.
My issue with Lindelof is besides defensively he offers nothing, and at a top club given how the game is now, you need to be able to pass and play from the back.
When I say about passing I mean probing balls to find a midfielder in between the lines, or a ball to release a winger on the far side.
If teams are doing a high press you need to be able to punish them releasing wingers or probing to find a midfielder, you can't just do a square 4 meter pass like Lindelof does.
In games that United are really tested (top 4) and in Europe, Lindelof doesn't meet the standard that you would want, nor does Bailly.
Until the end of the season Lindelof is the best pairing, but to win leagues there needs to be a top top player to partner Maguire.
Bailly and Lindelof are great squad players, that is about it.
He had a back problem, that's why he came off.Just posted it on the Maguire thread, I felt Vic had a very good half and it was Harry who wasn't switched on and got completely mugged for their first goal.
Disappointed with Ole taking Vic off and not Harry.
Captain or not he should set an example.
If the captain can make errors and not be punished then it sends a terrible message.
Now Lindelof cant pass... haMaguire can take too many touches of the ball sometimes but he's much more assured on the ball, Lindelof can't pass and he isn't quick enough to partner Maguire.
It's not that Lindelof is bad, it's just he isn't at the level needed to challenge for EPLs and CLs.
Lindelof would make a fine squad player, but not a starter.
My issue with Lindelof is besides defensively he offers nothing, and at a top club given how the game is now, you need to be able to pass and play from the back.
When I say about passing I mean probing balls to find a midfielder in between the lines, or a ball to release a winger on the far side.
If teams are doing a high press you need to be able to punish them releasing wingers or probing to find a midfielder, you can't just do a square 4 meter pass like Lindelof does.
In games that United are really tested (top 4) and in Europe, Lindelof doesn't meet the standard that you would want, nor does Bailly.
Until the end of the season Lindelof is the best pairing, but to win leagues there needs to be a top top player to partner Maguire.
Bailly and Lindelof are great squad players, that is about it.
I'd say AWB should have helped Maguire in that situation, but he didn't. Instead he kept laying down after selling himself (which Lindelöf NEVER does), ball watching. Lindelöf covered Maguires position in front of goal, which he should.What did Maguire put wrong for that first goal anyway? He was able to block the shot/pass that went towards the goal/Solanke, ball bounced back then he went towards the ball tried to get the ball first. Calling him the problem for that goal while others were ball watching not trying to help is just a bit too clueless of what's going on.
When Lindelof put the foot wrong, Bissaka & Maguire always there to cover him. On the opposite side, Lindelof couldn't cover his partner, the Spurs goal sums up.
He's the first choice because the others also problems, no one else have been putting challenge on Lindelof's spot. Lindelof is just not PL centre back that you can relied on week in week out, as a squad player he's good but not as regular.Makes zero sense when he is first choice. How about sign a player who is strong and good in the air but also has pace. That would have been smart. If Ole had kept Smalling to partner Maguire then maybe you would have a point but he didnt.
Rio was? If we had a clean sheet do you think he would've made that point at all?Who was talking about today?
If we want to go to the next level and challenge for leagues and UCLs we are going to have to at times play a more aggressive game and against top opposition
Correct. There are lot of ball watchers for that goal while Maguire was the only one who could sense the danger and did everything alone but he got blamed just because he got nutmegged.I'd say AWB should have helped Maguire in that situation, but he didn't. Instead he kept laying down after selling himself (which Lindelöf NEVER does), ball watching. Lindelöf covered Maguires position in front of goal, which he should.
I would have preferred Koulibally for the money paid or even just pay a bit more because he was the correct profile otherwise I think we should have went for a cheaper alternative to Maguire and waited till this summer to splash the cash Marquinios is also a CB I likeHe's the first choice because the others also problems, no one else have been putting challenge on Lindelof's spot. Lindelof is just not PL centre back that you can relied on week in week out, as a squad player he's good but not as regular.
So who is this strong, good in the air & has pace that we should have signed last summer? In additional you want him to be the leader of the back four which means a total complete centre back to compliment a centre back who has no asset, I think that makes zero sense. Maguire was available in the market that's why we signed him, Van Dijk isn't available and that's why we went for Maguire while Koulibaly cost 130m last summer.
I don't get about Smalling here. Ole wanted us to play from the back which is something that Smalling is not good at. It'll only ruin the football he's trying to play.
Why would your subjective ratings convince anyone?Okay let me put it this way for those who don’t understand why Lindeloff will be the one to drop out if we get a pacy Center back. It’s because of their strengths. Lindeloff and Maguire have similar strengths, but Maguire has more to his locker than Lindeloff
Pace
Maguire 4 out of 10
Lindeloff 6 out of 10
In the Air
Maguire 8 out 10
Lindeloff 5 out of 10 (he is actually poor in this department and I might even be generous there)
Strength(when grappling with strikers)
Maguire 9 out of 10
Lindeloff 6 out of 10
Passing Nd ball playing
Maguire 7 out of 10
Lindeloff 6 out of 10
Attacking(goal scoring)
Maguire 7 out of 10 (winning is the game vs Norwich where he played as centerforward almost the entire extra time because of his target man abilities- Mourinho would love him haha)
Lindeloff 3 out of 10
1 on 1 defending
Maguire 6 ( we have had issues with maguire here we need him at around 8)
Lindeloff 7
Organization of defense and leadership
Maguire 9 (and this is the main reason ole loves him and plays him in every game)
Lindeloff 3
So Yh, looking at all these , it’s no wonder Lindelof gets the most criticism and the reason why most people call for him to be the one who is replaced with a pacey center back. Because even though he is faster Nd maybe even better one on one defending, maguire has so many other strengths in his favor.
Koulibally was 28 at that time and cost 130m. Look at how much his value went down this season. I think it makes sense why the club decided not to pay 130m on him last summer.I would have preferred Koulibally for the money paid or even just pay a bit more because he was the correct profile otherwise I think we should have went for a cheaper alternative to Maguire and waited till this summer to splash the cash Marquinios is also a CB I like
Time will tell on Maguire but honestly U dont think he is that much better than Lindelof and I can see after getting a good partner for Maguire the attention switching to him being the one that needs replacing.
The goal and Maguire and DDG mistakes today came after Lindelof failing to clear the initial cross. Maybe he is the problem after all?I’m just saying... people love to shit on Lindelof, and a lot of people have been calling for Maguire/Bailly to start, well Lindelof hasn’t put a foot wrong & these two had a disasterclass today. Harry has been completely embarrassed twice now in 4 games.
I’m not shitting on Harry, but our fans need to be more consistent. Keep the same energy you have for Lindelof when it’s Maguire or Bailly, because I’m seeing blatant agendas against Victor at the moment.
Our best CB on current form. I pray he’s fit because the thought of Bailly terrifies me.
28? Is that old for a CB. We’ll find out if City do get him this summer if we made a mistake or not. I think we could gave got hin for less than 130m also. Wasn't his release clause 115?Koulibally was 28 at that time and cost 130m. Look at how much his value went down this season. I think it makes sense why the club decided not to pay 130m on him last summer.
Fixed it for you.The goal and Maguire and DDG mistakes today came after Lindelof and Maguire failing to clear the initial cross. Maybe he is the problem after all?
Coincidence sorry was bugging meOur defence has shaped up massively since he came imo.
Unless it's a conscience
