Maybe Lindelof isn’t the problem...

Falcow

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Good post.
Very good post, when I say the heading, I thought, is there a problem to begin with? Though I am slightly concerned with the individual errors particularly from DDG.

Lindelof is not bad and hasn't let us down at all this season(at least I cant remember any mistakes?) Only problem I have is that they are too similar as a pairing, both good on the ball but both slow.
 

ReddBalls

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I think AWB was at fault for the goal too, he didn't get up quick enough and he didn't need to go to ground at all, he could have marked the space in the box, but hindsight is 20/20 hopefully AWB learns from it
He'll learn. I'm not really worried.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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fair enough. Honestly I think 130m for him is a better deal than 85m for Maguire. Thats just how I rate the players. In honestly if it was me I wouldn't have signed either Possibly would have went for Upamencano as a development project
No one said he's old. The 130m investment is just not worthy for 28 years old centre back. Every clubs have the same idea, but it seems you have different one.

"development project" instead of going for someone more proven and step up to be a leader directly? That wasn't what we needed last summer, we couldn't afford another punt of 30m again like what we did on Lindelof, Bailly & Rojo.
 

RC89

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I'd say AWB should have helped Maguire in that situation, but he didn't. Instead he kept laying down after selling himself (which Lindelöf NEVER does), ball watching. Lindelöf covered Maguires position in front of goal, which he should.

Very good point. Didn't notice that until you said.
 

ReddBalls

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Very good post, when I say the heading, I thought, is there a problem to begin with? Though I am slightly concerned with the individual errors particularly from DDG.

Lindelof is not bad and hasn't let us down at all this season(at least I cant remember any mistakes?) Only problem I have is that they are too similar as a pairing, both good on the ball but both slow.
Yep. Slight concern regarding DDG, but he was good against Brighton. Fortunately, there's two good goalkeepers behind him. Threads like this one is typical of what @Bilbo alluded to above. The need some people have for (a) scapegoat(s).
 

Bilbo

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Yep. Slight concern regarding DDG, but he was good against Brighton. Fortunately, there's two good goalkeepers behind him. Threads like this one is typical of what @Bilbo alluded to above. The need some people have for (a) scapegoat(s).
Its just relentless. A never ending pursuit of unattainable perfection.

We will concede goals, we will miss chances, and we will make mistakes, because the perfect football team doesn't exist and never will.

What is it now - 11 clean sheets in 16 matches?
 

Halftrack

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The amount of bias, and the hyperbole and outright fantasy used to back it up, means it's impossible to have a proper discussion on the subject.

Honestly, whenever we get a new defender, both Lindelöf and Maguire should be given the chance to partner him, whoever he is. If the best pairing ends up being Maguire and the new guy, then that's the first choice pairing. If it's Lindelöf and the new guy, ditto.
 

ReddBalls

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Its just relentless. A never ending pursuit of unattainable perfection.

We will concede goals, we will miss chances, and we will make mistakes, because the perfect football team doesn't exist and never will.

What is it now - 11 clean sheets in 16 matches?
.. and 6 goals conceded.
 

Rasendori

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First and foremost, this comment of mine has nothing to do with if Lindelof should start or not.

I really liked the way Lindelof allowed us to sustain pressure on Bournemouth in this passage of play which I've highlighted.

 

MrSingh2002

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Neither is Maguire
Maguire can play ball and win headers. Seems to be a dressing room leader too which gets him a place for now. If we were to sign two top class centre backs then neither Lindelof of Maguire would start.
 

ReddBalls

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First and foremost, this comment of mine has nothing to do with if Lindelof should start or not.

I really liked the way Lindelof allowed us to sustain pressure on Bournemouth in this passage of play which I've highlighted.

Great clip. Two penetrative passes too, although I learned on here that he only passes sideways.
 

Pav1878

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Don't rate Maguire, and never wanted him in the first place. He has some good qualities and is supposedly a good character in the dressing room, but he has no place, is not agile and gets done consistently. How is he worth £80million? Could we not have found someone equally mediocre for half that money?
 

Snuffkin

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What annoys me is that we invest time in these players its not the cash it's the time we aut fir them to come good. I don't think he was ever a premier league CB. He's had the best coaching possible but we've got to get rid after all that effort
 

NinjaFletch

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Its just relentless. A never ending pursuit of unattainable perfection.

We will concede goals, we will miss chances, and we will make mistakes, because the perfect football team doesn't exist and never will.

What is it now - 11 clean sheets in 16 matches?
I don't think it's inherently a problem. We can and should have high standards and we can be honest that the first goal today fell below them.

The problem is the idiots who made their mind up on Maguire before he was signed come out of the woodwork and try and rewrite the entirety of his season based on it.
 

trevor newnham

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Blimey, the way some of you people think. If your missus burns your toast one morning, are you going to send out for croissants for the rest of the year? Maguire made a mistake, but he has been pretty damn good for most of the year. You are not going to get a world class performance out of every player every game.Each and everyone of you makes more mistakes on a daily basis than these guys make over the course of a season.
 

Bilbo

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I don't think it's inherently a problem. We can and should have high standards and we can be honest that the first goal today fell below them.

The problem is the idiots who made their mind up on Maguire before he was signed come out of the woodwork and try and rewrite the entirety of his season based on it.
It definitely is a problem. We should be a group of supporters mature and knowledgeable enough to understand that we will occasionally just concede a goal or two.

The bigger picture is that we have 11 clean sheets in 16 and in general we don't concede that many chances. This is a very good defense and has been for some time now.

Oh, and anyone who doesn't think that Maguire has been a fantastic signing for this club just isn't worth listening to IMO.
 

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Not to be overly simplistic.. But ee need Maguire to head the ball... Its an essential skill for a PL centre back and he's our only defender that is any good at it.
 

NinjaFletch

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It definitely is a problem. We should be a group of supporters mature and knowledgeable enough to understand that we will occasionally just concede a goal or two.

The bigger picture is that we have 11 clean sheets in 16 and in general we don't concede that many chances. This is a very good defense and has been for some time now.

Oh, and anyone who doesn't think that Maguire has been a fantastic signing for this club just isn't worth listening to IMO.
Yes I agree in total with the second two paragraphs, but that can all be true without us having to pretend that he couldn't have done better for the goal (or that he's been blemish free before today). We've made excuses for too many dross players over the years and we don't need to act like there's nothing Maguire could ever do better.

My impression is that Maguire has been a good signing because he holds himself to high standards and will be annoyed at the mistake today.

I think all that can be acknowledged without having a temper tantrum and demanding United splash £150m on some new prospect 90% of the forum haven't seen play because they're good on FIFA, but some posters struggle with that nuance.
 

Andycoleno9

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People want to replace him with Tuanzebe who barely played for first team. That shows what people think about him. And i don't think that it will change

Shame though, because imo, he is our best defender.
 

Bilbo

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Yes I agree in total with the second two paragraphs, but that can all be true without us having to pretend that he couldn't have done better for the goal (or that he's been blemish free before today). We've made excuses for too many dross players over the years and we don't need to act like there's nothing Maguire could ever do better.

My impression is that Maguire has been a good signing because he holds himself to high standards and will be annoyed at the mistake today.

I think all that can be acknowledged without having a temper tantrum and demanding United splash £150m on some new prospect 90% of the forum haven't seen play because they're good on FIFA, but some posters struggle with that nuance.
Yes I agree. There's no doubt that he got mugged for the goal today and as you say he'll be annoyed about it and then probably forget all about it. Sometimes defenders just get mugged. They all do.
 

cyril C

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Both our CBs have a mistake in them but i'd take Maguire over Lindelof every day of the week.

Maguire specialises in something, Lindelof is literally a jack of all master of none.

Today every attack came down our right side as AWB was up the pitch, Lindelof kept getting dragged out and didn't get anywhere near King until the ball was in our box.

That's why he got subbed for Bailly because of his pace. Don't believe the bad back excuse at all unless it suddenly seized up in the dressing room.

Anyways I don't think it helped today that DDG seemed high on drugs or something.

Personally think we should have told AWB to sit deeper after we went 2-1 as it was clearly the tactic to get in behind on our right.
Are you Mourinho? When you attack, and most fans prefer continue attacking instead of parking the bus, leaving gap behind the full back is inevitable, unless you play 352.

To fill up the gap, you rely on MF and your CB to do the job. In fact, conceding the 1st goal had nothing to do with gap or tactics. Maguire was responsible for it 100%. How can you let anyone pass you like this? Not even Messi. It was simply complacency and lacking concentration.

Maguire was partly responsible for the 2nd goal as well, the mis-pass before Matic' mis-pass. May be too many games and tiredness has something to do with those elementary error(s).
 

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You have completely missed the point. Unless you believe our defence is of the required quality to challenge for UCL and the league. Which is what the reference to challenging for top 4 was about.
I haven’t missed any point. You intimated that our league position is a product of our defending and I disagree. And yes, I do believe our defence is adequately prepared to support a title challenge. It can be improved, of course, but it’s made up of some very good players who generally defend well. Our problem has been scoring goals; this has been the problem for seven years. Fix that and our defence motors along quite nicely.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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I haven’t missed any point. You intimated that our league position is a product of our defending and I disagree. And yes, I do believe our defence is adequately prepared to support a title challenge. It can be improved, of course, but it’s made up of some very good players who generally defend well. Our problem has been scoring goals; this has been the problem for seven years. Fix that and our defence motors along quite nicely.
Agree with this. Our defenders have done a good job normally apart from staying fit. It is the attack that have struggled as a team. Although the attack seem to have improved now with Bruno, Greenwood and Pogba taking key roles.
 

Bastian

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People want to replace him with Tuanzebe who barely played for first team. That shows what people think about him. And i don't think that it will change

Shame though, because imo, he is our best defender.
It's not unreasonable for people to be hoping that Tuanzebe gets over his injury nightmare and plays himself into the first team. We've yet to see if he can, but what we're clearly lacking next to Maguire is dynamism and pace, which both Maguire and Lindelof sorely lack, and though Bailly may have that he doesn't have anything close to the composure needed.

For me, Lindelof is a slightly better defender than Blind, but of course not as good on the ball.
 

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Maguire is our best central defender and leader. He has had a couple of mistakes and unfortunately the guy behind him decided that during Maguires mistakes will be when he makes mistakes too rather than bail him out. But make no mistake, Maguire is the man. And for me, Lindeloff is our second best defender. My only problem is, when I look at Lindeloff and watch him play, something about him tells me that he should be our 3rd choice. Bailley for me doesn't even enter the conversation. So we probably need another central defender (preferably someont with speed) to compliment Maguire and that is in no way a knock on Lindeloff. I would just prefer to have someone as good as him be our 3rd choice. I also don't think they compliment each other as well as they should as central defense partners...
 

bond19821982

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Lindelof is actually better than Maguire. Both has their own short comings but Lindelof would just edge over Maguire. This is coming from someone who actually thinks Lindelof should be replaced.

Should have signed Dunk instead of Maguire last year and upgraded Lindelof this year. Or wait for the right player. Maguire has been a disaster for 80m.
 

elmo

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Lindelof is actually better than Maguire. Both has their own short comings but Lindelof would just edge over Maguire. This is coming from someone who actually thinks Lindelof should be replaced.

Should have signed Dunk instead of Maguire last year and upgraded Lindelof this year. Or wait for the right player. Maguire has been a disaster for 80m.
You're off your rockers.

Macguire is better than Lindelof in every department.

He's not a great signing at 80m, but he's still better than Lindelof who's basically a tall Daley Blind.
 

Revan

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You're off your rockers.

Macguire is better than Lindelof in every department.

He's not a great signing at 80m, but he's still better than Lindelof who's basically a tall Daley Blind.
Except that he makes more mistakes, is slower, has no acceleration (not that Lindelof has much, but Maguire is slower than evolution), gets dribbled, gets nutmegged, and takes one hour to pass the ball.

He is better in the air than Lindelof though, I grant you that.
 

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Not to be overly simplistic.. But ee need Maguire to head the ball... Its an essential skill for a PL centre back and he's our only defender that is any good at it.
Agreed.

People want to replace him with Tuanzebe who barely played for first team. That shows what people think about him. And i don't think that it will change

Shame though, because imo, he is our best defender.
Watch Tuanzebe a few times. Imo he's calm, fast, strong, good header and really comfortable with the ball.

Wouldn't hurt giving him a few matches and see I think. Our defense suck recently anyway, can't be worse.
 

shahzy

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Except that he makes more mistakes, is slower, has no acceleration (not that Lindelof has much, but Maguire is slower than evolution), gets dribbled, gets nutmegged, and takes one hour to pass the ball.

He is better in the air than Lindelof though, I grant you that.
Tend to agree. Lindelof has more of the qualities that make a defender better. But i have to give to Maguire for leadership. He seems to be the guy they all listen to. The guy is setting up weekly bonding sessions and everyone has to come etc. That helps the entire team. That is worth something too imo
 

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He has done well to turn around his pretty awful start at the club, he look so out of his depth it was scary. So he has overcome that. But we have to be realistic. He is nothing special and is the easiest to replace. A new top central defender is now a priority
Spot on. Maguire is 100% the better CB of the two and despite Lindelof making less howlers than his partner today hes not better
 

Hawks2008

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Yeah but maguire is big and stronk and does headers so he is a proper defender or something
 

Mick1

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80 mil pound defenders should not be embarrassed and left for dead twice in 4 games. I just genuinely think he s not that good.

Don't get me wrong, Maguire is still better than Lindelof, but not by much. I'm relatively neutral to his signing and whilst I like him as a captain, I think we would eventually need better if we want to challenge for top honours. Kind of how I felt about Rashford and Martial before they both exploded this season, and seem to be improving. I don't see it in Harry. Having a fast center back partner does not make it so that it s okay to be dribbled by and left for dead by complete unknowns.

Having nightmares imagining Messi targeting our backline
 

Fortitude

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I'd say AWB should have helped Maguire in that situation, but he didn't. Instead he kept laying down after selling himself (which Lindelöf NEVER does), ball watching. Lindelöf covered Maguires position in front of goal, which he should.

100%

A calamity of errors. Issue being, they aren't hard to coax out of our backline.