Maybe Lindelof isn’t the problem...

[amolbhatia50k]

Lindelof : Non defending centre back

 

[ash_86]

Don't think Harry is a major problem. He just had a bad game which happens. Still wins a lot of headers for me which Lindelof doesn't. I'd replace Lindelof with a good pacy CB and our defense would be brilliant.

 

[westmeath]

How can you say he’s best on current form? Maguire was brilliant in his previous few games, even scoring and delivering captain’s performances.

lindelof hasnt made an error and somehow we’ve been able to cover his passive defending since project restart. Doesn’t mean I don’t want him replaced, I do because he’s a glaring weak spot in the first team.

I am struggling to see Harry’s brilliance. I see a major howler every game. Now I know he has improved our distribution from the back but his lack of pace on the turn and his tendency to make big errors just really scares me.

Victor has been much steadier in recent games and I really think his aerial ability has improved.

To be fair, neither of them is world class anyway and we need serious investment in this position.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Well we didn't buy him for 80m and make him captain so he has to carry the blame. Maguire is good but definitely not world class or worth 80m. If you took away his price tag United fans would rate him less

 

[SmallCaine]

Don't think Harry is a major problem. He just had a bad game which happens. Still wins a lot of headers for me which Lindelof doesn't. I'd replace Lindelof with a good pacy CB and our defense would be brilliant.

Can't the exact same thing be said for Lindelof? Replace headers with not getting showed up by anyone running at him at pace or defending well in 1v1 situations, the only difference I see is 1 cost 40mn the other 80 but somehow its the mistakes of the 80mn signing that get excused and overlooked.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

For me, Maguire is better than Lindelof without being top class. He actually dominates in the air and generally is a more imposing defender. His ball abilities are also better. The only problem is that he's not the top class CB we needed especially for that sum of money. Lindelof on the other is the 'safest' defender I've seen constantly backing off and retreating space. He's just a bit of a wuss really. He's decent as a backup CB as he's capable at everything. But he's absurdly risk and aggression averse for a defender.

So yeah, Maguire makes more obvious errors but it's also because he's the only one of the two who actually commits himself into trying to win challenges. Neither is top class but I prefer Maguire anyday.

 

[Acquire Me]

He is a nothing defender he isn't good at anything.

People are so fecking fast to judge in here. It’s terrible.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Players can’t make mistakes anymore without people shitting on them. Maguire has been pretty solid most of the season. He got done for sure but arguably De Gea allowing a gap at the nearer post was more of a mistake. In the end the mistakes didn’t cost us so why focus on it. We scored 4 fantastic goals and played great football attacking wise.

 

[Cassidy]

No one said he's old. The 130m investment is just not worthy for 28 years old centre back. Every clubs have the same idea, but it seems you have different one.

"development project" instead of going for someone more proven and step up to be a leader directly? That wasn't what we needed last summer, we couldn't afford another punt of 30m again like what we did on Lindelof, Bailly & Rojo.

We alsi didnt need someone who isnt good enough. for a world record fee

 

[Cassidy]

Maguire can play ball and win headers. Seems to be a dressing room leader too which gets him a place for now. If we were to sign two top class centre backs then neither Lindelof of Maguire would start.

So basically you agree

 

[Grande]

You cant have 2 slow CBs. One needs to have pace preferably both in an aggressive attacking side. Thats what Rio was saying if you listened to the whole thing.
Given we already had Lindelof Maguire was the wrong signing

Given that we have eight clean sheets in our recent run, and given that the four goals we did let in after the break were due to a whole lot of things other than pace, I’d say we’re dealimg with it quite fine.

Harry has been well done three times in four games, neither because he was slow, all because he was unwise. Tony Adams would have had none of those problems. He is a very good defender, but he needs to straighten his head out in the pressure situations. Which I expect he will.

 

[Cassidy]

I haven’t missed any point. You intimated that our league position is a product of our defending and I disagree. And yes, I do believe our defence is adequately prepared to support a title challenge. It can be improved, of course, but it’s made up of some very good players who generally defend well. Our problem has been scoring goals; this has been the problem for seven years. Fix that and our defence motors along quite nicely.

No you clearly missed the point

 

[GaryLifo]

Can't believe what I'm reading here.

Maguire has been excellent for us this season. As for not being the captain, this is laughable. Read plenty of articles talking about how vocal he is in organising the defence.

4 goals conceded in 15 games and he's played every minute of those games. Scored 3 or 4 himself too.

Do people realise that in football the other team is trying to score too and sometimes they will succeed. The only goal which I think he could do much better for was the one against spurs. And even then, that one came after a 3 month lock down when the players were only just back.

United fans eh?

 

[TwoSheds]

Can't believe what I'm reading here.

Maguire has been excellent for us this season. As for not being the captain, this is laughable. Read plenty of articles talking about how vocal he is in organising the defence.

4 goals conceded in 15 games and he's played every minute of those games. Scored 3 or 4 himself too.

Do people realise that in football the other team is trying to score too and sometimes they will succeed. The only goal which I think he could do much better for was the one against spurs. And even then, that one came after a 3 month lock down when the players were only just back.

United fans eh?

Whilst I don't want to shit on Maguire here he definitely needs to close his legs when Stanislas is out there going for the meg. Stanislas was having a great game but clearly that was possible to defend so yeah, it's a mistake.

 

[Ekeke]

He is one of the problems. The others are De Gea and Maguire although being a good defender, not worth what we paid for him

 

[Globule]

Can't believe what I'm reading here.

Maguire has been excellent for us this season. As for not being the captain, this is laughable. Read plenty of articles talking about how vocal he is in organising the defence.

4 goals conceded in 15 games and he's played every minute of those games. Scored 3 or 4 himself too.

Do people realise that in football the other team is trying to score too and sometimes they will succeed. The only goal which I think he could do much better for was the one against spurs. And even then, that one came after a 3 month lock down when the players were only just back.

United fans eh?

I second this. Our defence has been good in general this season, and a massive part of that is Maguire. He's not Usain Bolt, but he is a defensive leader. He came into a new team and has been given the captaincy off the bat. That alone should give you an indication of the type of person he is. We've had loads of defenders at the back since Vidic and Rio hung up their boots - we've had pacy defenders, aggressive defenders, ball-playing defenders, defenders strong in 1v1 situations, defenders strong positionally, defenders strong aerially - what we haven't had in that time is a genuine leader.

Our defence this season has generally looked good, even while trying to play a more expansive game. Previously, the only times we've looked as strong defensively is when our entire system is built to protect the defence.

 

[Globule]

Whilst I don't want to shit on Maguire here he definitely needs to close his legs when Stanislas is out there going for the meg. Stanislas was having a great game but clearly that was possible to defend so yeah, it's a mistake.

It's not even the nutmeg that I have the issue with. Instead it's how easy he let him round him after getting 'megged. He should have been using his big frame to make that a LOT harder.

 

[ash_86]

Can't the exact same thing be said for Lindelof? Replace headers with not getting showed up by anyone running at him at pace or defending well in 1v1 situations, the only difference I see is 1 cost 40mn the other 80 but somehow its the mistakes of the 80mn signing that get excused and overlooked.

I don't think Lindeloff does well in that department either. Nevertheless Harry has to improve his 1 v 1 better but given a choice between the two i would opt for Maguire.

 

[A-man]

First and foremost, this comment of mine has nothing to do with if Lindelof should start or not.

I really liked the way Lindelof allowed us to sustain pressure on Bournemouth in this passage of play which I've highlighted.

It looks like Lindelof’s role has changed a little and instead of always stay as last man, he is now told to move forward. The clip you posted showed how he won back the ball high and early several times, passed through to attackers twice and went through himself, in just a few minutes. We need more like this.

The whole team has performed great for some time now. Both in terms of defending and scoring goals. Why would we want to start rearranging things now? The CB we need to get is not a world class £100 mill CB. It is the third CB who can compete for the starting xi and be a backup one can trust. The one we hoped Tuanzebe would be.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I haven’t missed any point. You intimated that our league position is a product of our defending and I disagree. And yes, I do believe our defence is adequately prepared to support a title challenge. It can be improved, of course, but it’s made up of some very good players who generally defend well. Our problem has been scoring goals; this has been the problem for seven years. Fix that and our defence motors along quite nicely.

You can refine that even further and say our problem has been scoring goals against compact defending, an issue that looks like it has come to an end.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The whole team has performed great for some time now. Both in terms of defending and scoring goals. Why would we want to start rearranging things now? The CB we need to get is not a world class £100 mill CB. It is the third CB who can compete for the starting xi and be a backup one can trust. The one we hoped Tuanzebe would be.

I don’t think that strengthening CB is a priority this summer. Sancho and Grealish are what we need to address the sharp decline in attacking quality once you look beyond the XI.

 

[Kag]

No you clearly missed the point

You can’t say something and then pretend you meant something completely different when others explain to you why you’re wrong. That isn’t debate.

 

[EwanI Ted]

I don’t think Lindelöf is a bad player, I just don’t think he complements Maguire very well. Having two fairly slow centre backs causes tactical problems since you’re more vulnerable if you play a high line.

Bailly has the attributes of a good partner for Maguire, but sadly not the temperament or form. I’d still like to give him more chances til the end of the season, but if he hasn’t got what it takes, then we should look for someone along similar lines to partner up Maguire. Maguire Lindelöf I don’t see being a good choice long term, even if it’s not our biggest problem right now.

 

[A-man]

I don’t think that strengthening CB is a priority this summer. Sancho and Grealish are what we need to address the sharp decline in attacking quality once you look beyond the XI.

No, neither do I. But there are not many options behind Lindelof and Maguire. The backups are more often injured than fit and I don’t really trust them.

 

[Cassidy]

You can’t say something and then pretend you meant something completely different when others explain to you why you’re wrong. That isn’t debate.

If you followed the conversation and what I replied to you would see the point.

It was determined that our defence was good enough and this had been displayed this season. I pointed out that we are fighting for top 4.

So in no way can we say our defence is good enough to win the UCL and PL unless you believe that isnt the goal.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

No, neither do I. But there is not many options behind Lindelof and Maguire. The backups are more often injured than fit and I don’t really trust them.

That’s a fair point. Neville was talking about trying McT there. He’s good in the air, strong, quick and decent on the ball for a CB.

 

[A-man]

That’s a fair point. Neville was talking about trying McT there. He’s good in the air, strong, quick and decent on the ball for a CB.

I think he has all the “obvious” characteristics that would make him a good CB. Then of course we don’t know if he has the awareness, cooperations skills, positioning, etc. But since there are so many CM atm it makes sense to try.

 

[Kag]

If you followed the conversation and what I replied to you would see the point.

It was determined that our defence was good enough and this had been displayed this season. I pointed out that we are fighting for top 4.

So in no way can we say our defence is good enough to win the UCL and PL unless you believe that isnt the goal.

I did. And you’ve only gone and repeated the same daft point. Our goals conceded tally is not the reason we’re fighting for top four. It’s the goals scored tally, which has been pointed out to you by myself and others. It’s why City are clear of us in spite of having conceded the same amount of goals as we have; they score lots of goals. This has been the case for years: our defence being one of the best in the league, meanwhile our goal scoring numbers generally languish between fifth and eighth. Go back and check the league tables if you wish; we were being outscored by Bournemouth over the course of 38 games.

 

[Cassidy]

I did. And you’ve only gone and repeated the same daft point. Our goals conceded tally is not the reason we’re fighting for top four. It’s the goals scored tally, which has been pointed out to you by myself and others. It’s why City are clear of us in spite of having conceded the same amount of goals as we have; they score lots of goals. This has been the case for years: our defence being one of the best in the league, meanwhile our goal scoring numbers generally languish between fifth and eighth. Go back and check the league tables if you wish; we were being outscored by Bournemouth over the course of 38 games.

And the defence has not been tested in the UCL but keep going and suggesting it is good enough to win it

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Frustrates me to no end how easily this is forgotten.

Similarly, Mctominay and Fred were practically carrying this team before Bruno arrived, now they're being shit on in the matchday thread because they look a little rusty after a 3 month layoff.

People say forgotten but was it ever really true? He was great the last game but he still makes lots of errors positionally as he has done in pretty much every game since we’ve come back.

I just don’t get the feeling that he and Lindelof trust each other. Which means they keep trying to overprotect each other leading to mistakes. Both are decent defenders and I think Lindelof has been good and was probably the better out of the two yesterday. The issue is they both are pushing high and neither has the pace to get back if we are caught.
You’re not gonna bin a decent performing Maguire who just cost you 85mil for a CB with pace. No you probably bin the 35mil Swedish guy who is also performing well. The issue is where do you find this mythical defender with pace, passing ability great at defending.

I’m not saying we need to bin one but I can see why a CB with pace who is actually decent would be a good thing for us going forward.

 

[Kag]

And the defence has not been tested in the UCL but keep going and suggesting it is good enough to win it

You’re being a numpty. Just admit you are off the mark instead of digging holes. We both know that I never suggested the defence is good enough to win the Champions League. We both know it because it isn’t said anywhere throughout this thread. I said it is good enough to support an adequate challenge for the title provided we fix the issue of scoring goals. I believe I’m right in that.

 

[Cassidy]

You’re being a numpty. Just admit you are off the mark instead of digging holes. We both know that I never suggested the defence is good enough to win the Champions League. We both know it because it isn’t said anywhere throughout this thread. I said it is good enough to support an adequate challenge for the title provided we fix the issue of scoring goals. I believe I’m right in that.

I said it ages ago. As United our aim is winning the league and UCL

 

[Bilbo]

Well we didn't buy him for 80m and make him captain so he has to carry the blame. Maguire is good but definitely not world class or worth 80m. If you took away his price tag United fans would rate him less

Nobody should be rating Maguire because of his price tag. That would be stupid. Its debatable how much he is worth as a centre back, but IMO he is undoubtedly an 80m leader, and boy did we need an 80m leader in this team.

Really though this entire thread is a total car crash. Our defensive record lately has been extremely impressive. We don't concede many goals, and we don't give up that many decent chances either. We have a very good defence.

I can't help but think that these types of threads are created and supported by people who hardly ever watch any football outside of United, because all football teams concede goals, all defenders get done from time to time, and all keepers miss the odd save they should make.

I can get the De Gea discussions because lately he's made a few errors, and we have a promising keeper out on loan (who by the way has also let a few in that he shouldn't lately), but I think its harsh in the extreme to now be going after 2 centre backs that, on the whole, have been very good for most of the season.

 

[Dan_F]

Do people have this view that only our defence makes mistakes? Every goal we concede is picked apart in detail, looking for someone to blame. However, if Rashford had scored that goal yesterday, we’d be hailing it as brilliant skill.

We’ve conceded the third lowest amount of goals, despite 2 of the back 5 being in their first season here. We are going to concede goals, that’s part of football. I don’t know how anyone can argue that Maguire hasn’t been a massive upgrade on where we were previously, both in leadership and overall footballing quality.

 

[Bilbo]

You’re being a numpty. Just admit you are off the mark instead of digging holes. We both know that I never suggested the defence is good enough to win the Champions League. We both know it because it isn’t said anywhere throughout this thread. I said it is good enough to support an adequate challenge for the title provided we fix the issue of scoring goals. I believe I’m right in that.

Agree with you

 

[Kag]

I said it ages ago. As United our aim is winning the league and UCL

So we have clarified that I didn’t suggest it was good enough to win the Champions League. Great.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Are you Mourinho? When you attack, and most fans prefer continue attacking instead of parking the bus, leaving gap behind the full back is inevitable, unless you play 352.

To fill up the gap, you rely on MF and your CB to do the job. In fact, conceding the 1st goal had nothing to do with gap or tactics. Maguire was responsible for it 100%. How can you let anyone pass you like this? Not even Messi. It was simply complacency and lacking concentration.

Maguire was partly responsible for the 2nd goal as well, the mis-pass before Matic' mis-pass. May be too many games and tiredness has something to do with those elementary error(s).

Wtf has mourinho got to do with anything.

if you watched the match you would see every attack came down the channel between Lindelöf and AWB. Once were 2-1 up I’m saying AWB should have been more cautious, they had zero threat apart from that.

Lindelöf was unable to cope with king pulling him into the channels (I don’t blame him for that) but hence why ole made the change. Bailly is a lot faster and more proactive and they didn’t get in behind us once in the 2nd half in a similar fashion.

hopefully You now

 

[Slysi17]

Leceister City mugged us off and I don't think Harry Maguire is that good. Certainly not worth 80 million pounds. Lindelof gets stick but Maguire doesn't even though Maguire has made numerous defensive errors. Should of spent an extra 10 million to get Koulibally who is simply better. Not writing Harry Maguire off but has to be alot better next season.

 

[Slysi17]

What did Maguire put wrong for that first goal anyway? He was able to block the shot/pass that went towards the goal/Solanke, ball bounced back then he went towards the ball tried to get the ball first. Calling him the problem for that goal while others were ball watching not trying to help is just a bit too clueless of what's going on.

When Lindelof put the foot wrong, Bissaka & Maguire always there to cover him. On the opposite side, Lindelof couldn't cover his partner, the Spurs goal sums up.

He was at fault but others were at fault too. Stanlisis nutmegged him too easily. What game were you watching

 

[Slysi17]

Amen.

Maguire was another Brexit buy. Buy a prominent British player because... he's decent and British. If we had someone assess the kind of CB the squad needed, we would have never spent that kind of money on him.

Now people have to jump through several hoops, so they can justify keeping Maguire in the starting line-up, while relegating Lindelof to the bench because of the same weaknesses our amazing CB captain possesses.

Tl; dr: we should have bought Koulibaly with the Maguire money.

Absolutely. I personally hate this British bias towards signing players. And the silly thing is Koulibally would of only cost 10 million extra.