This is very hard for me to read. I meant McTominay is very under involved as is. In reality, McTominay is just poor even with simple pass, basic stuff too. It's a sign of a player out of his depth. Nothing about overcommitting.
McFred as a midfield duo heading into 2022/23 season
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Fred in an interview with Mitten mentions how as a team they had a bad season but individually it was a good season for him. Absolute frauds the pair of em.
TBF, last season as a no 8, he was semi decent in patches. He's even starting for Brazil NT as no.8. The issue now is EtH playing him as no6 negating his limited strength, all while gaining nothing from having McTominay on the pitch where Fred should be.
He's definitely an 8/box to box CM. Never a holding midfielder in a million years. By now its obvious given how he panics in deeper areas.
Seems strange that everyone has an opinion on everything else, but not this question.Maybe because nobody can answer that (including you) apart from ETH? Seems strange that you can't understand that. Fred was also shite so it's not like it's even relevant either.
You must he wearing rose tinted glasses then. If by tussles you mean fouling when he's already lost his man or tackling when he's given foolishly lost the ball after 5 or 6 touches, then sure.
As for "see atletico game". The game he turned up his collar for? What a load of nonsense. As if we haven't seen him jogging around in no man's land and giving away needless fouls for years. You've chosen a strange hill to die on defending a Championship player stealing a living at United, especially when the best you can come up with is "tussles and strong tackles."
I'm not expecting someone to know what EtH was thinking, moreso to guess the reasons why.
Threads like this just become echo chambers for people's inane and banal retorts. It's tiresome and quite frankly boring.
I shall be giving this thread a miss from now on and leave the seething few to foam at the mouth.
Ok maybe a relative then
Ill give it a go.
Just highlighting that stats can be incredibly misleading.
I've asked this question repeatedly on here with no answer yet, but I'll ask again in case any person on here can answer: why did Ten Hag not take McTominay off over Fred on 57 minutes, especially considering a)McT was on a yellow card and b) he was apparently having the worst game of his United career?
Seems strange to me.
They were both shite but McT is 6ft 4. We lack height. His main asset is his height. He might have headed a few balls away.
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The played the wrong way round on Sunday, if were gonna play a single six and 2 8's which is basically what we did than mctom has to be the 6 and Fred in one of the 8 posistions.
Fred as a 6 and mctom as an 8 is a disaster we have watched many times before.
Ideally we need a proper no 6 or perhaps we need to give the only genuine no 6 in the squad a go. And we need a upgrade at 8 aswell.
Realisticly neither are good enough but by at least playing them in the better posistions might help.
Fred as a 6 and mctom as an 8 is a disaster we have watched many times before.
Ideally we need a proper no 6 or perhaps we need to give the only genuine no 6 in the squad a go. And we need a upgrade at 8 aswell.
Realisticly neither are good enough but by at least playing them in the better posistions might help.
I think the problem with playing McTominay as a 6 is that Ten Hag wants his 6 to pick up the ball from the CBs, or be good enough to turn with the ball to transition to starting an attack. McTominay cannot do this either as he doesn't have the technical ability or confidence to do that job.
He has to have balls to drop both of them on Saturday.
If he doesn't he will get slated and if he does and we get beaten, Good luck facing the backlash.
I would play Eriksen deeper with someone else on Saturday.
If he doesn't he will get slated and if he does and we get beaten, Good luck facing the backlash.
I would play Eriksen deeper with someone else on Saturday.
Fred has his uses. He can fill that Park/Herrera 'hassling' role quite well. Being asked to play beyond his abilities at the minute. He needs playmaker behind him, and Rabiot isn't the answer.
McTom on the other hand is bottom half of the leauge quality. He might get in Bournemouth or Fulham's squad...maybe. Tom Cleverely was the better footballer.
McTom on the other hand is bottom half of the leauge quality. He might get in Bournemouth or Fulham's squad...maybe. Tom Cleverely was the better footballer.
Agreed.
Eriksen and Beek I reckon. Midfield looked far more functional in the second half once Eriksen dropped deep.
Send Van de Beek back to Ajax in a deal for Antony.
I've been saying for the last 2 seasons - if we keep replying on Fred and McTominey as a pair to control our midfield we might as well not bother trying to compete whatsoever.
Dreadful as a pair, dreadful individually.
Fred i've highlighted some good aspects of his game and I think he's being played too deep purely cos we have no one else there. I do think Fred has good qualities that we could use in some capacity if he's further up the pitch etc. Fred will always be quite erratic and will always make you worry. He's never going to control a game and dictate play but he could potentially use his energy and workrate to good use.
McTominey on the other hand is pure and simple garbage. As a 6, as an 8, as any sort of midfielder he's just simply lacking in any real quality required. Baffled he's played so regular for us and a sign of where we are.
Put them together and they form one average player. Shambles.
This is supposed to be the beginning of a new era, yet we know what McFred bring and we still persist with it. Surely ETH knows this, surely it's better to play Donny or Garner or Hannibal. Anything, anything has got to be better than McTominey. Laughable performance.
Dreadful as a pair, dreadful individually.
Fred i've highlighted some good aspects of his game and I think he's being played too deep purely cos we have no one else there. I do think Fred has good qualities that we could use in some capacity if he's further up the pitch etc. Fred will always be quite erratic and will always make you worry. He's never going to control a game and dictate play but he could potentially use his energy and workrate to good use.
McTominey on the other hand is pure and simple garbage. As a 6, as an 8, as any sort of midfielder he's just simply lacking in any real quality required. Baffled he's played so regular for us and a sign of where we are.
Put them together and they form one average player. Shambles.
This is supposed to be the beginning of a new era, yet we know what McFred bring and we still persist with it. Surely ETH knows this, surely it's better to play Donny or Garner or Hannibal. Anything, anything has got to be better than McTominey. Laughable performance.
If we are really goiing to be taken seriously this season then Fred and McTominay have to be shipped out, along with Maguire, Dalot, Rashford, Shaw and even De Gea who will never fit in with ETHs style of play. ETH gave these players a chance to prove they have something to offer against Brighton and they failed and let him and the supporters down. We were at home for crying out loud. and until Ronaldo came on most of the team just didnt seem bothered, just as in most matches last season. I would add Martial to the above list because, once hes fit, he will only perform when he wants to, just like last season and the ones before. We have some decent looking young players and we should give them the chance to show just what they can do over several matches. If we keep Ronaldo we should make him captain and give the youngsters somebody to look up to.
Every team in the league has at least one DM/CM better than McFred, it's hilarious.
I think Scott is getting unfair criticism, some games last season he was the best player on the pitch. You cannot question his commitment and effort which is more than that can be said for the likes of Shaw, Rashford, Martial, Pogba, Sancho etc
I couldn't find the clip after looking for it.
It's difficult to accept that any player could hide from the ball in an era of football with so many data and performance analysis tools at Premier League clubs disposal. How could a player get away with deliberately avoiding the ball and it not being picked up by analysts, coaches or the manager?
That argument alone coupled with the fact that he starts regularly is a strong case that he doesn't hide. I remain open minded on this topic and curious how other fans have reached this conclusion as I can't find a satisfactory explanation or convincing case on my own.
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Scott McTominay attempted 18 passes at home against a team who will probably finish bottom half. For context, the average by a Premier League CM was about 60.
Fred won zero of his four duels and was dribbled past in 2/2 'take-on's
If these stats aren't damning and prove the final nail in their coffin, I don't know what will.
Fred won zero of his four duels and was dribbled past in 2/2 'take-on's
If these stats aren't damning and prove the final nail in their coffin, I don't know what will.
Thanks for that. It's a short clip, but gives me a good idea of what to look for. I'll re-watch the Brighton match and see if I can identify this from his performance at the weekend and keep an eye out for it in the games going forward and reply later.
A quality player is at least 7/10 every single game they play. Scott is a 7/10 in maybe 1 in 12 games if he's lucky. He's just not good enough and never will be. He wouldn't start for any other team in the league. He just lacks the quality needed to be a top footballer. We had Bruno digging us out of a hole for nearly 18 months, now the teams true colours are showing. You can't rely on one player.
Commitment and effort are all very well but they mean very little without skill, flair, imagination and quality. Without these McTominay is not good enough to be a first team player. Same with Fred.
The problem is you can. Commitment and effort include when your team has the ball, making runs, asking for the ball, getting on the ball and making the ball do the running by expanding play to our better players with passing.
Its not just running about when we dont have the ball or when he has the ball and runs it forward taking on a player which, in those situations he mostly does have the effort. Those are just the most visual parts which could fool some people
You are talking Jibberish ! He's the first name on the team sheet from this current shower of Sh** for me.
The reason we are losing games is because we are conceding easy goals and have no idea up front, other than individual brilliance from Ronaldo. Scott is not the problem !
Its easy to blame the midfield but for example we have Rashford who is massively overrated due to being English. He possibly would be driving a van for a career now, if it wasn't for the fact the Glazers started a season with only Rooney as their striker and LVG was forced to throw him into the 1st team. My neighbours son played in the same U18 league as Rashford but for City. He told me Rashford was nowhere near the best striker prospect in the U18 league, there were far better strikers in it and a lot quicker. Most of the other more talented prospects never got the chance and are now out of the game but Rashford is supposed to be some top United player.
If you dropped Scott into a holding midfield spot for City, Liverpool or Chelsea we would all be raving about him.
The reason we are losing games is because we are conceding easy goals and have no idea up front, other than individual brilliance from Ronaldo. Scott is not the problem !
Its easy to blame the midfield but for example we have Rashford who is massively overrated due to being English. He possibly would be driving a van for a career now, if it wasn't for the fact the Glazers started a season with only Rooney as their striker and LVG was forced to throw him into the 1st team. My neighbours son played in the same U18 league as Rashford but for City. He told me Rashford was nowhere near the best striker prospect in the U18 league, there were far better strikers in it and a lot quicker. Most of the other more talented prospects never got the chance and are now out of the game but Rashford is supposed to be some top United player.
If you dropped Scott into a holding midfield spot for City, Liverpool or Chelsea we would all be raving about him.
It’s such a strange contradiction, Fred played as a box to box attacking midfielder both for Brazil and in the Russian league. How does the coaching set up at the club try and make him something he has never been, and then compounds it by playing the hapless McTom in his position.
Is that simple ,or are we mere mortals just missing something
Is that simple ,or are we mere mortals just missing something
It happens because they think McTominay would completely abandon the instructions for the 6. It's a pick your poison type situation.
This is a very strange take.
Out of curiosity, did your friend tell you anything about McTominay's standing as a youth player? Because he was totally irrelevant and as I've been saying for years - one of the luckiest footballers ever. Could have been substituted for any number of midfielders we have released without any second thought over the years, and a lot of them would likely be better after hundreds of games in the first team.
That, said, your last line is probably the most ridiculous take of all. Scott McTominay in holding midfield for Manchester City? Christ!
Freds being played our of position and I'm not entirely convinced he is good enough even in his favoured position in the PL. International football is very different to the PL pace wise.
McTominay simply isn't up to scratch in any role. Rash. Goes missing if asked to play the 6 role so the defence always end up bypassing him and playing speculative balls and we have far better players for any roles further up the pitch.
McTominay simply isn't up to scratch in any role. Rash. Goes missing if asked to play the 6 role so the defence always end up bypassing him and playing speculative balls and we have far better players for any roles further up the pitch.
Time will tell but watch this space but whoever we sign in midfield based on the current team, we will be having the same discussion just in a different context. Yep they’ll be technically better but will be exposed and overrun in that midfield. Whilst we can question Scott and Fred, they are getting feck all support from either those behind them or in front of them.
Most games they are often outnumbered where teams have 3 or sometimes four players in there. People seem to forget it’s actually Scott, Fred and Bruno in our midfield and have a look at how hard their front players work defensively….
Most games they are often outnumbered where teams have 3 or sometimes four players in there. People seem to forget it’s actually Scott, Fred and Bruno in our midfield and have a look at how hard their front players work defensively….
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Scott and Fred are just scapegoats for issues that are much more entrenched than the ‘good enough’ debate. If people are balanced, that good enough debate is pretty much applicable to all of the squad. Why stop at Scott and Fred, what’s others excuse when they are actually playing in their preferred position. Fred played further forward on the left and was arguably our best player under RR.
Yes you're right, the two midfielders responsible for our midfield being nonexistent are the scapegoats
Bruno is not far behind the pair of them in terms of our midfield problems, that is also true. Positionally, he is everywhere, and leaves us playing a midfield two too often.
How we let ourselves get in such a shit situation is beyond me, I mean we've wasted two month of the window with the thought that alternatives for FDJ weren't good enough, only to get alarming shocked at the state of this incompetent idiots, so much so we are looking to bring in a Juve reject with a mother baggage.
Everyday you come online to a new embarrassment from the club you love, what is next sign Harry Winks?
Everyday you come online to a new embarrassment from the club you love, what is next sign Harry Winks?
For me they clearly are not 6’s, and I find it hard to criticise any player playing out of position. They don’t pick themselves either so you have to question why they are being exposed to something they clearly cant do consistently. That’s not on them, that’s on managers who keeping playing them there.
Lets be fair, United have struggled for a proper top class midfield for a very long time. When was the last time we had 2 CMs that were good enough for United? Scholes and Carrick? Even under Ferguson we didn't have the best CMs in the league regularly.
Yep with Scott who isnt confident on the ball, limited in that position and goes missing; and Fred who is over confident on the ball (beyond his ability), limited in that position and gets drawn to the ball; doesn’t take much to see where it’s going wrong especially when there is so much space in front and behind our midfield….
From what I've seen during pre-season and in the Brighton game McSauce hasn't really spent too much time as a #6 so far under Erik Ten Hag.
There is some rotation and support to build numerical advantages during the game, but on the whole McSauce looked to spend a fair degree of the first half (haven't re-watched the 2nd half yet) in a more advanced role where he occasionally took up positions that a forward or striker would traditionally occupy.
Fred on the other hand appeared to spend a great deal of time in a stereotypical #6 role.
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Depends on what you mean by ‘good enough’. I wouldn’t look at Liverpools midfield and say that’s good enough to be the best club side in the world, but the club is in the argument….
Sucks for you because a lot of us watched the youth teams so you can't get away with saying nonsense.
Rashford had a far better standing (based on performances) than McTominay in the youth team. Not sure how you can argue against Rashford based on his time at u18 level, yet at the same time protect McTominay.