I've been saying it for weeks, CM is far more of an issue for us than a new centre back.
McFred is the worst midfield 2 of the PL’s top 10 teams
- Thread starter RashyForPM
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It's hard to know what our most pressing issue is in the starting 11 at the moment but as the seasons gone on, I'm starting to think it is our CM options. It's the position with least hope too. We don't expect any of them to become very good.
Want to say it again, Fred and McTom, they're the real chuckle brothers. I chuckled a lot when watching these two.
But then, when the whole team can't pass for shit, you start to wonder... if these two are the problem?
But then, when the whole team can't pass for shit, you start to wonder... if these two are the problem?
There's a lot of nonsense in this thread isn't there. As if being above a team (1 point above Leicester) means that's you're undeniably better than them?Is this a serious question?Genuinely asking.
They have done really well for much of the season. But when they’re bad, they’re THIS bad.
A midfielder playing at the centre of everything needs to have two required asset; first touch and able to pass the ball. McFred don't even excel on one of them yet they're playing every game. Why else we can't create nor can we retain possession.
They're certainly not good enough for a side that want to win the league.
They serve their purpose if you just play counter attacking football. If you want to have nice passing football and more possession, "these are not the droids you are looking for".
Did my initial response pit Bruno & Pogba vs McFred? Or did I say Pogba over everyone?
You keep going back to the games he’s started which is really irrelevant in a discussion about Fred & McT.
Pogba has done as much, & more, in limited appearances than either of those two have - by all means disagree but you’ll need something more coherent.
Let’s look at today’s game. Pogba played around 60 minutes, whereas Fred played the full 90. I would assert that despite playing around a 3rd less of the game Pogba’s impact on the positive side of our game [an assist for our goal] far outweighs the 90 minutes of dross Fred gave us.
Pogba has more than played his role in our league position, struggling to see where I say it’s due to him alone though.
Fair enough. I thought you were genuinely asking, because someone asked the same stupid question a few pages ago, as if football is a two man sport.
Leicester’s midfield dominated all game. Ndidi and Tielemans are leagues above Fred, Matic and even McT to a lesser degree. Ndidi is absolutely world class.
Fred is a genuinely bad player. So far off the level required that it's ridiculous. Running about like a headless chicken sometimes partly masks his shortcomings, but when he can't even be bothered to do that his lack of ability is laid bare. One of the biggest wastes of money in the club's history. McTominay is just bang average. He'd be fine if he was playing twenty games a season as a rotation option against lesser opposition.
Matic is worse than both though.
Matic is worse than both though.
Calm down. We had a tough away game in Milan which ended 67 hours before this one kicked off.
Do we only play with midfielders?
Ndidi, Tielmans and Maddison are imo among the best midfielders in the league. Overall we have a better squad than Leichester, but in midfield they are way ahead
My post was sarcastic.
But you've intirgued me. If Leicester finish above us (they're only 1 point off us I believe) does that mean they have the better squad?
It's just a lot in this thread seem to say we can't be bad because we're 2nd. But if Leicester finish above us, does this mean we are bad?
Some of the rationale, both sides of the argument, baffles me.
I disagree with this.
In key areas we have players that are better than what Leicester have. However, on the whole I don't know if we have a better squad. The fact we have Bruno, who posts insane numbers, covers over a lot of cracks.
Looking at our squad, if you were Rogers would you look enviously at any part of our squad besides the forward area? Our best centre backs came from Leicester and they've replaced him with players who you can make a strong argument are as good (and probably better than all our other centre backs).
Our squad is horrible. In the front 3 and at #10 we've got real quality. Everywhere else, besides maybe Luke Shaw, we're at the same level or worse than the other teams in the top half of the league.
So in the planet you are from centre midfield is all that matters?
Bang average the pair of them. Pogba being played out of position and Donny getting 2 league starts all season to accommodate these 2? shocking.
They both get picked to shield the back back 4, we’re almost playing 6 at the back at times.....absolutely pointless.
They both get picked to shield the back back 4, we’re almost playing 6 at the back at times.....absolutely pointless.
Defense and GK we are pretty equal, maybe we edge it slightly
They have a better midfield
We have a better attack (on paper at least)
Its not that much between them. People scoff at Leichester because they are a "small" club, but their team is on par with us and Chelsea and is much better than Spurs and Arsenal
It’s a big issue if Fred and Mctominay are starting this often next season which is fairly likely I’d imagine.
It’s over the top to say they are the ninth best but I don’t think there aren’t many (if any) teams in the top ten of the league that would swap their midfielders for Mcfred.
I agree with you.
Then you can pose a different question as to why that's the case, when we've spent considerably more than Leicester over the last *insert any period of time here*.
But that isn't for this thread.
Two teams of similar level. We prioritised Milan away and had to rest some key players tonight. The “new” midfield didn’t really step up and both Fred and Matic had their worst matches I’ve seen from them.
I wonder if those who contributed to this thread are watching Everton vs Spurs tonight? Both are playing poorly, not just in this game but in recent weeks.
I’d personally take McFred over both sets of CMs on show tonight, both looking very ordinary.
I’d personally take McFred over both sets of CMs on show tonight, both looking very ordinary.
If the purpose of this thread is to buy new players, then spare us the statement. Xhaka-Partey are worse than some of the bottom clubs, may be just a matter of form, but Arsenal's current position fully explain this.
Nididi-Tielemans, Rice-Soucek, may be technically better, but I would say only on point difference.
Kovacic-Kante, how good was Chelsea? They were on and off team mates, I would say at least Fred-McTom are more consistent, not necessarily or not yet world class, but consistent.
Only the KDB-Gundogan pairing are better than ours, which explain why City has more points than us.
You're right.
Prime Pirlo playing besides prime Carrick would be nice.
Prime Pirlo playing besides prime Carrick would be nice.
Fred Mctominay would would look ace if they where playing for West Ham.
Has anyone bothered to look at the stats of the matches where we have started McT and Fred ? Here they are
Brighton League Cup away 3-0
Newcastle away 4-1
PSG away 2-1
Chelsea home 0-0
Arsenal home 0-1
Everton away 3-1
PSG home 1-3
City home 0-0
Leeds home 6-2
Leicester away 2-2
Villa home 2-1
City League cup home 0-2
Liverpool away 0-0
Arsenal away 0-0 (McTominay injured early in the game)
Soton home 9-0
WBA away 1-1
Sociedad away 4-0
Chelsea away 0-0
City away 2-0
West Ham home 1-0
Milan away 1-0
Spurs away 3-1
So 12 wins, 7 draws and 3 defeats - and they have started almost all of our toughest games.
Not bad for the worst midfield duo of the top-10 teams in the Premier League
Imagine how good the rest of our players must be - if we have only lost 3 times in 22 games with these 2 mediocre players in central midfield.
Brighton League Cup away 3-0
Newcastle away 4-1
PSG away 2-1
Chelsea home 0-0
Arsenal home 0-1
Everton away 3-1
PSG home 1-3
City home 0-0
Leeds home 6-2
Leicester away 2-2
Villa home 2-1
City League cup home 0-2
Liverpool away 0-0
Arsenal away 0-0 (McTominay injured early in the game)
Soton home 9-0
WBA away 1-1
Sociedad away 4-0
Chelsea away 0-0
City away 2-0
West Ham home 1-0
Milan away 1-0
Spurs away 3-1
So 12 wins, 7 draws and 3 defeats - and they have started almost all of our toughest games.
Not bad for the worst midfield duo of the top-10 teams in the Premier League
Imagine how good the rest of our players must be - if we have only lost 3 times in 22 games with these 2 mediocre players in central midfield.
Fred gave away good possession 5 times in the first 25 minutes against Granada. However good he is at getting the ball back he has to improve his passing. Its not funny, better teams will take advantage and we won't challenge for titles unless he stops being so erratic. You have to admire his confidence though because if I had tried a couple of long passes and had seen them picked off because they went no where near our players. I would probably look to give the short ball and let someone else take the responsibility. Not Fred though, he looks up and tries again no self doubt at all, its going to work this time. Just like his shooting his optimism is unbreakable.
I remember David Platt being just like this. After getting partnered with Gaza for England he developed the unshakeable belief that he was a passing god, no amount of failure ever seemed to persuade him he was mistaken.
I remember David Platt being just like this. After getting partnered with Gaza for England he developed the unshakeable belief that he was a passing god, no amount of failure ever seemed to persuade him he was mistaken.
I forgot about this thread. Still just as dumb.
You must be new here. Positive stats when discussing McFred (Fred in particular) are useless didn't you know.
Also worth looking at the starting midfield for the 8 games (I think its 8?) that we have lost this season.
Definitely not the worst. Those two are still good player, just not Kimmich, Gundogan, Modric level. But If we can have one player who has almost similar work rate & disciplinary as McT/Fred but at the same time can pass the ball better, not giving the ball away cheaply and does not lose the ball easily when under pressure to play next to one of McT or Fred, it will be a massive boost.
I would admire him more if he considered your approach.
@RashyForPM really trying for the worst poster of the year award.
A win is a win I guess. Fair play.
A win is a win I guess. Fair play.
Not new - but I am one of those who still try to use stats and facts in discussions
And how incredible must our manager be to be in the position we are with these two pub players playing in our midfield all season?!
He must surely be regarded as one of the best in the world?.... right?
No, it’s actually only because every other team dropped off or something
Such a fail of a thread
We can improve our cm. But all fans want to do is spend another 5 years looking for a player to 'get the best out of pogba'.
Centre mid is a complex equation, solidity and ball winning is more important to us winning matches than talent on the ball, if talent on the ball comes at the price that we concede more goals and get less effective counter attacks
Pogba playing on the left wing is the future for me. Try to add competition to mcfred in summer
We can improve our cm. But all fans want to do is spend another 5 years looking for a player to 'get the best out of pogba'.
Centre mid is a complex equation, solidity and ball winning is more important to us winning matches than talent on the ball, if talent on the ball comes at the price that we concede more goals and get less effective counter attacks
Pogba playing on the left wing is the future for me. Try to add competition to mcfred in summer
Strange thread. Didn’t read beyond the first 5 replies. As it stands at worst, they are the second best pairing in the league.
They might not be pleasing to watch or not talented enough to fans standard but they’ve been key part to the progress made so far.
Let’s wait till United buy the better options we’ve so longed for and pass judgement then.
Dont people ever get tired of running down their own especially at a key point in the season, unless it’s to undermine the team confidence for run in.
They might not be pleasing to watch or not talented enough to fans standard but they’ve been key part to the progress made so far.
Let’s wait till United buy the better options we’ve so longed for and pass judgement then.
Dont people ever get tired of running down their own especially at a key point in the season, unless it’s to undermine the team confidence for run in.