McTominay and Fred, do we need both?

[pacifictheme]

Obviously both have been in really good form this season and Fred especially has seen a huge jump in performances and consistency.

However, with the bruno, pogba, matic (classic DM) midfield 3 we have started to deploy, neither of them really fits. Neither are creative enough or disciplined enough to play any of the 3 roles effectively.

Of course we will need different systems and be adaptable throughout matches, but if we feel that pogba, bruno, matic is our best 3, and we need cover / a replacement for matic and a rotation option for bruno / pogba, do we actually need both players going forward or are they taking up space in a squad that would be better suited to someone who is a better fit.

I'm not saying we need to get rid of them immediately and we clearly have more important areas of the squad to trim, it just struck me as weird that 2 players who earlier in the season would have been guaranteed starters now don't fit our best 11 and no one is calling for them to be included. Thought it warranted discussion.

 

[Eire Red United]

No chance. Matic ain’t getting any younger and both are quality. Plenty of games in a season plus after the last 15years Or so of having a non existent midfield it’s great to have options again.

 

[Skills]

They're different players.

Fred is Matic's natural back up as a DM. McTominay has never played that role for us, or worryingly if he's been asked to play in that role for us - he's shown himself up to be far too ill disciplined.

 

[11101]

Wait until we face a team that doesnt allow us to control possession. Matic will be chasing shadows if left on his own in that scenario. McTominay and Fred work well together there, and Matic cant play every game anyway. Fred could be his understudy.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

I don’t understand the question. 2 CMs is the only position where we have depth. McFred showed 5heir quality in the most difficult period of the season, they won us the games vs City and Chelsea, put a fight against Liverpool. Warriors. We should be happy to have such options.

 

[Striker10]

Yes we need both. Mctominay can also do a defensive role. We need a squad and options.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Yes we need them. Maybe you don't rate them but both Fred and Mctominay can play Pogba's role. It's just that Pogba is more effective because he's world class but Fred is also effective and wouldn't take away much. Mctominay comes third in the pecking order.

I don't know if you remember but when we got Bruno, Pogba was still injured and we did well without him with a midfield of Bruno Matic and Fred/Mctominay. Some even said Pogba has to earn his place back.

Fred and Mctominay are decent cover for Pogba. So we need them. They can't cover Bruno's role but It does remain to be seen whether they can cover Matic's role. Fred did replace Matic yesterday and he didn't take anything away from the game so there's potential. Stark contrast to what happens if Lingard comes in for Bruno.

 

[fps]

Yes and they’re both doing well. Really interesting how some Man Utd fans are prepared to drop even good players who care about the club at the drop of a hat. Squad depth, obviously.

 

[RC89]

Yes.

 

[FootyGirl88]

If we get a new DM and Grealish i dont think we do tbh

 

[AneRu]

We still need both until we sign a DM or Garner does a Greenwood on us but given the difficulties of playing CM that maybe a few years away. We shouldn't forget that Matic has never had a consistently great season for us because he is liable to a big drop off in form whenever he is overplayed, now he is a few years older so that problem will best him more regularly.

Fred can cover Matic and Scot is cover for Pogba even if he is less creative. In addition there is always a case of bringing either of them in lieu of a forward against really dangerous sides like City or Liverpool because they could run rings around Matic if he is paired with Paul who isnt the best defensively.

Even if we sign a DM or one emerges from the academy we will always need depth because Matic is aging and might soon be moved on or want to move on to play out the remainder of his career somewhere else like Italy so Fred will always be needed for depth and competition. Scot is homegrown, a crowd favorite, loves the club and will run through brick walls for the team.

 

[E-mal]

I get the OPs point that in a world where we are trying to get a player that can cover both Pogba and Fernandes then getting a specialist defensive midfielder negates the usefulness of either Fred or Mctominay. Let's say for example we got VDB and Partey to cover Pogba/Fernandes and Matic respectively, then having Scott and Fred becomes an overkill. His point is quite valid.

 

[DoomSlayer]

We absolutely need them, 2 quality midfield options. Why would we get rid of them?

 

[noodlehair]

We'll need both of them before the end of this season never mind going forwards. I don't see how this isn't obvious with the games we have comng up and are likely to have next season.

I mean we have only signed Bruno in the past year and we've needed both McTominay and Fred to since then just to field a team at times.

What is it with this place? We start playing too well to criticise anyone, so people just find different angles with which to shit on our players.

 

[DoomSlayer]

We'll need both of them before the end of this season never mind going forwards. I don't see how this isn't obvious with the games we have comng up and are likely to have next season.

I mean we have only signed Bruno in the past year and we've needed both McTominay and Fred to since then just to field a team at times.

What is it with this place? We start playing too well to criticise anyone, so people just find different angles with which to shit on our players.

I guess some people need to find ways to still be negative about something.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I get the OPs point that in a world where we are trying to get a player that can cover both Pogba and Fernandes then getting a specialist defensive midfielder negates the usefulness of either Fred or Mctominay. Let's say for example we got VDB and Partey to cover Pogba/Fernandes and Matic respectively, then having Scott and Fred becomes an overkill. His point is quite valid.

But Fred and Mctominay are exactly what you've described If you look at how we've used them this season. Fred and Mctominay has covered for both Matic and Pogba this season

 

[Samid]

Odd question. Do people even watch football? Do Pool need Milner, Ox? Do City need Gundogan, Fernandinho? What is the reason Pep has 10 midfielders in the squad wherever he goes?

I swear some on here think you only need 11 players. The concept of injuries, fatigue etc. don't exist in their heads.

 

[dogwithabone]

I thought Fred was really bright yesterday when he came on. I know it was only Bournemouth and we were flying but he adjusted to the pace of the game immediately and looked really good. It will be horses for courses with how we use him, Matic and McTominay.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

If we get a new DM and Grealish i dont think we do tbh

Then Matic leaves and we are back to looking for back ups

 

[FootyGirl88]

Then Matic leaves and we are back to looking for back ups

Matic would be the backup for the DM position, we need a specialist for that position. Matic could easily play for another 2 seasons if we use him sparingly.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Yes of course. Both players should be given a chance to play Matics role alongside Pogba and Fernandes against lesser teams. They should also both be working on their forward passing so they can cover Pogbas role better. What’s the obsession with the first eleven players?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Matic would be the backup for the DM position, we need a specialist for that position. Matic could easily play for another 2 seasons if we use him sparingly.

I think Matic would rather leave and be a starter somewhere else than stay on the bench. If Matic doesn't leave though and is still performing then I agree that a DM and Grealish would make Fred and Mctominay not important. But at least one of them should stay because injuries happen and we would need solid cover

 

[FootyGirl88]

I think Matic would rather leave and be a starter somewhere else than stay on the bench. If Matic doesn't leave though and is still performing then I agree that a DM and Grealish would make Fred and Mctominay not important. But at least one of them should stay because injuries happen and we would need solid cover

Yeah i agree, who would you keep out of two if it came to it?

 

[charlenefan]

You couldn't make this shit up, we finally start to have a good competitive squad and people want to sell those players

 

[limerickcitykid]

No, they’re both defensive 8s. Exactly what I said I’m the McTominay thread last week. It’s A role we should only ever be using in big games. Get rid of one and get a new midfielder who actually fits the system we use in 70% of matches.

 

[Dr Fink]

Definitely need both. Bin off Perreira though.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Yeah i agree, who would you keep out of two if it came to it?

Mctominay. Fred is the better player but he shouldn't be a cover for injuries or a bench player and should be starting somewhere else even if it's a lesser team. Mctominay wouldn't complain with the role. He's also young and can still develop. I'm sure Ole would choose Mctominay over Fred too

 

[goatboy]

You couldn't make this shit up, we finally start to have a good competitive squad and people want to sell those players

Couldn't agree more, it's as if people have forgotten how well the pair of them played together pre-lockdown

 

[CM]

Possibly not, but with the squad as it is I don't think either of them leaving will place very high on the agenda. We'd need to sign 4 or 5 players before thinking about letting either of them go.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Yes

They're both excellent squad players and in McT you have someone who can play at CB too when in a pinch.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

I'm sorry did we forget us having to play Periera in midfield earlier this season?

 

[Kostov]

We don’t. We need a proper replacement for Matic while he moves back as a rotating player and someone to deputize for Bruno. I’d sell Fred if I had the choice and if we can bring a proper CDM.

 

[E-mal]

But Fred and Mctominay are exactly what you've described If you look at how we've used them this season. Fred and Mctominay has covered for both Matic and Pogba this season

I think there is misunderstanding of the OPs point and my point is none of Fred and Scott are specilaist defensive midfielders like Matic and they wont be effective in the midfield with Pogba and Fernandes like the way Matic is doing now. The point is if we are getting a specilaist defensive Midfielder and a creative midfield cover for Pogba/Fernandes then having both Fred and Scott becomes an overkill except if Matic is leaving next season. So, either of them with a new CDM, Matic, Pogba, Fernanades and another creative cover is enough.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Given our other current options, yes.

If we got a CAM and a CDM/CM, no. Both are too weak on the ball and contributes little when the team is in possession. Only games where they are beneficial to play, are when we are the ones where we are not controlling the game. And we should aim to always attempt to control the game.

 

[DoomSlayer]

Given our other current options, yes.

If we got a CAM and a CDM/CM, no. Both are too weak on the ball and contributes little when the team is in possession. Only games where they are beneficial to play, are when we are the ones where we are not controlling the game. And we should aim to always attempt to control the game.

Away to the very best teams would be very very difficult, almost impossible to fully control games. Plus, they are great squad options and can be more than good enough to play cup games and the odd league ones.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

I think there is misunderstanding of the OPs point and my point is none of Fred and Scott are specilaist defensive midfielders like Matic and they wont be effective in the midfield with Pogba and Fernandes like the way Matic is doing now. The point is if we are getting a specilaist defensive Midfielder and a creative midfield cover for Pogba/Fernandes then having both Fred and Scott becomes an overkill except if Matic is leaving next season. So, either of them with a new CDM, Matic, Pogba, Fernanades and another creative cover is enough.

It’s a moot point though as Scott is still developing. Matic wasn’t a specialist defensive midfielder at Scott’s age. He could develop into anything we need him to be.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Yes.

Why don't people like having squad depth anymore? Did City need Sterling, Sane, Mahrez and Bernardo Silva when they won the league with 100 points?

If anything we need more squad depth.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Yes we do, and we desperately need to find a Matic replacement in the next 12 to 18 months.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Away to the very best teams would be very very difficult, almost impossible to fully control games. Plus, they are great squad options and can be more than good enough to play cup games and the odd league ones.

When one of them plays with two players that are capable on the ball, then the team could still perform, but not when both are playing. We use our midfielders a lot in the buildup (PP, Bruno and Matic), playing Fred and McT at the same would be difficult, unless our fullbacks were better on the ball and we could depend on them as "playmakers".

 

[el3mel]

Injuries happen, you know.