McTominay and Fred, do we need both?

ReallyUSA

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McTominay said he wants to belike Carrick, and Fred was absolutely amazing before tje breakm it's a non-issue, especially since Pogba is bound to go down for 4 to 5 weeks.
 

DannyDee

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If we are going to continue playing 3 midfielders in a 4-3-3, then we absolutely need both unless we upgrade them somehow with a transfer. We don't have another box to box or someone who can play a DM holding role without them if Pogba or Matic were unable to play. If Bruno was out, we likely would move Pogba to his spot, and bring in McTominay or Fred for Pogba's role too, otherwise we are playing Perreria. Mata, or Lingard as our most advanced midfielder, far from an ideal situation.

Now, I'd love for the club to find a more like for like player to spell Matic than McTominay or Fred, but I'm not sure that will happen this window.
 

Craig Ward

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Why are some on the cafe so against the idea of having squad depth?
Baffles me. We need quality depth - its a major issue.

We need Fred, Mctominey AND to sign somebody.

Garner, Levitt aren't ready and Matic only has 1 more season in and around the 1st team. Fred or Mctominey are both good players, but neither are as good as Matic in he DM role.

We need to sign an attacking and a defensive midfielder. Adding quality around the squad enhances competition for places and makes players work to stay in the team

We need to stop playing bang average players or players who used to be good, but arent anymore - i'm looking at you Lingard, Periera and Mata
 

JMack1234

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Yeah they are both excellent cover options.

Plus when next season gets going I'm sure McTominay is going to have to come in for Matic quite a lot and will eventually be our DM long term. Whereas Fred is a perfectly serviceable Pogba replacement.
 

SalfordRed18

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If I'm not mistaken, 07/08 we had scholes, Carrick, Hargreaves, Anderson and Fletcher and they all got game time. Of course we need Fred and mctominay.
 

groovyalbert

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Start the same XI for a few games in a row - win those games - then ship out backup options. Sounds good.
 

limerickcitykid

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Why are some on the cafe so against the idea of having squad depth?
How is getting rid of one and replacing them with depth for a role we actually play every game being against depth?

We need depth, depth of a creative midfielder, of a deep midfielder capable of controlling a match. Two things neither Fred or McTominay are capable. Why do we need double depth for a defensive 8 role we only play in big matches?

Why are some of the cafe so against have an actual balanced squad?
 

ghaliboy

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These two actually balance the rotation options. McT can play across the defensive third and Fred can play across the attacking third.
 

Kaos

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Why are some on the cafe so against the idea of having squad depth?
This. It wasn't long ago we had to resort to playing O'shea, Rafael da Silva and a 59 year old Ryan Giggs in central midfield. I'd happily embrace the added midfield depth over going back to shoehorning anyone we could into midfield.
 

romufc

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Why are some on the cafe so against the idea of having squad depth?
This is something that baffles me. We need both of them plus another midfielder.

A season has injuries, lack of form, run of games which will allow us to use the squad.
 

TheNewEra

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They are the best squad players the club has currently, but I don't like the drop off between Pogba, Matic, Bruno and those 2 they aren't on the same wave-length.

There definitely needs to be a quality addition in the midfield.
 

RedRonaldo

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Yes. Although they have near to zero creativity and wasn’t really suit to DM role, they are still reliable backup and quite a decent box to box workhorse type of midfielder.
 

Fosu-Mens

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They enable us to rest Matic and either Pogba or Fernandes - they play well together defensively and we still have a creative AM.
They are capable and the team is still able to function when one of them is playing. When both are playing, we struggle to progress the ball forward and the forwards are forced to drop deep to help in the buildup. The drop off in passing and on the ball quality between Matic/Pogba and Fred/McT is noticeable and makes a difference in the team's ability to control games. Given our current options, we need them as a replacement when there is a tight schedule, but in the long run, one of them should be sold. We should also attempt to acquire a midfielder with a better ability on the ball this summer when 2 of Bruno/Matic/Pogba needs a rest/injured. Either as an upgrade on Matic (Partey) or as a rotational player able to step in for Matic/PP.
 

pacifictheme

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We even need someone like Lingard for squad depth if he can get his act together.
The thread is a long term view. In that long term view (and just imagine this) there is no lingard. I'm saying if we want this 433 with a true dm and two more attack minded players, I think one of Fred or mctominay gives us an option, but both feel like overkill considering neither are a perfect fit for a starting spot in the current system.

I'm not saying we need to get rid this summer, or even that we definitely need to at all, just asking the question really.
 

romufc

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We need both plus Ndidi.
I don't think Ndidi is a player that will fit our style of play if I am honest. We play more with a Deep lying playmaker rather than a ball winner in the DM role.
 

Morpheus 7

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Bringing on the two don't change a game. These players grow in to the game and aren't impact subs. We need quality all over pitch and options. This first 11 mindset needs to change. Scott and Fred have been good this year. It's others like Lingard, Periera and the lack of options that hurt us.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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They were good prelockdown. Mctominay showed that he can at least be a useful squad option and Fred was arguably our player of the season. Now Mctominay is playing like we just got him from the championship and Fred is playing like he just came from Ukraine and both are struggling to adapt to the the league.

They've shown they can offer something before but right now they are playing like they need to once again adapt to the team and the league. They are on the bench now and they wouldn't get that time they need. And as bench players, they've made zero impact whenever they've come on. What they have done is made us lose control. Bringing on both of them and the midfield is dead. Zero control.

For overall squad depth, yes we need both but we don't need both of them on the bench
 

Squeaky Bumtime

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Strange thread and I see I'm not the only one who noticed that. :)

Of course we need both, they're good to rest Pogba or Bruno. As the game yesterday showed not both and when both play without a creative midfielder quality drops rapidly. They both showed before the brake they're good squad players and were quality. Problem is they havent been at their best since the comeback and that's a problem. Saying all that I'm not sure either are good enough to play instead of Matić longterm and Matić needs his game time reduced due to his shape and form.
 

limerickcitykid

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These two actually balance the rotation options. McT can play across the defensive third and Fred can play across the attacking third.
Strange thread and I see I'm not the only one who noticed that. :)

Of course we need both, they're good to rest Pogba or Bruno. As the game yesterday showed not both and when both play without a creative midfielder quality drops rapidly. They both showed before the brake they're good squad players and were quality. Problem is they havent been at their best since the comeback and that's a problem. Saying all that I'm not sure either are good enough to play instead of Matić longterm and Matić needs his game time reduced due to his shape and form.
Fred play across the attacking third? Good to replace Pogba and Bruno? How is a guy who doesn’t score, a guy who can’t even hit the target let alone score, doesn’t assist, and creates absolutely nothing, a good replacement for Bruno and Pogba? He offers absolutely nothing that they do.

You can’t replace two of the top creative players in the league who regularly score and create multiple chances a game with someone who barely can create multiple chances in an entire season.

Why not just get a backup who is actually capable of producing something?
 

Squeaky Bumtime

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Fred play across the attacking third? Good to replace Pogba and Bruno? How is a guy who doesn’t score, a guy who can’t even hit the target let alone score, doesn’t assist, and creates absolutely nothing, a good replacement for Bruno and Pogba? He offers absolutely nothing that they do.

You can’t replace two of the top creative players in the league who regularly score and create multiple chances a game with someone who barely can create multiple chances in an entire season.

Why not just get a backup who is actually capable of producing something?
Not replace but sub. Keep one creative midfielder and change the structure, depending on the game, like it should have been done yesterday and that's why I said both Bruno and Pogba shouldn't be out of the game in the same time. Fred and McTominay can play insted of Matić too and given Matić's form right now and fatigue one of them should probably start on thursday.
Of course Fred cant replace Brupogba quality wise but what he offers is steadying the game, spraying passes and keeping the ball. He's a box to box midielder who is also decent defensively wise.

Of course ideally we should have a player who directly replaces both of them and has similar qualities. It all depends how we intend to play. For instance can we afford to play with both Bruno and Pogba in big games.
 

Igor Drefljak

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I like both and I'd like to keep both. My biggest issue is moving forward, it just feels we have two very jack of all trades, masters of none type players.
None can get near creativity given by Pogba or Bruno.
None can really do the defensive side as effectively as Matic can.
What they both give us a solid all round game with high energy, but when on the pitch, they wont specialise in any one role.

I'm sure most of us would like an upgrade on Matic to be honest. Younger and can get around more while also having the same defensive ability.
I'm also sure most of us would like a creative player on the bench to come on when Bruno or Pogba need a rest.

At that point (which I don't think is next season), I think we'd need to drop one (Fred), so we can add some more specialised depth
 

Nori-

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McTominay can be cover for Matic.

Sell Fred and use the money find good cover for Pogba.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Shows that Pogba and Bruno are class though with a smaller sample size than Fred and Mctominay. Also shows Fred isn't as useless as some people think he is. It's like they've forgotten how good he was pre lockdown
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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We don't need both. Nobody is saying we don't need squad depth but we need to replace them with midfielders who add more to the team. They are basically CMs that are defensive but can't play DM

They are similar in that both aren't DMs so they leave us with an ageing Matic as our only DM. Both are CMs but are not creative so they leave us with Pogba as our only creative CM. So even with CMs like Fred and Mctominay we are still crying out for a DM and a creative midfielder. We can't have two defensive CMs and none can play DM. We can't have two CMs and none can provide creativity when Pogba is out.

I'd personally sell Fred and replace him with a creative DM. I think he was our best player pre lockdown but we need more of a creative DM than him. Plus I think we can get some good money from him. Mctominay is young so can get better as a box to box

Sell Fred and bring in a creative DM to cover for Matic. Mctominay can be backup to Pogba. Also get a back up AM to cover for Bruno

Our midfield next season should be something like this - Matic Tonali Bruno Mctominay Pogba Grealish and Garner/Levitt/Hannibal. (Just threw in Grealish and Tonali as examples)
 

Yagami

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No, they’re both defensive 8s. Exactly what I said I’m the McTominay thread last week. It’s A role we should only ever be using in big games. Get rid of one and get a new midfielder who actually fits the system we use in 70% of matches.
I remember reading your opinions on this topic in the McTominay thread at the time and agreed then as I do now. Long term, it's pointless having both for the reasons you've stated.

We need a new DM and another CM who can contribute creatively if one or both of Pogba and Fernandes aren't playing. So, you'd have the starting DM, Matic as backup, Pogba, Fernandes and let's say Grealish. Really, you'd only need one of Fred or McTominay then. Having both is overkill.

The only way I think it works having them both in the squad long term is if we decide McTominay is going to be taking over from Matic as our DM so you'd just have Fred as the rotational player. I wouldn't be a fan of that myself as Scott lacks a lot of the on the ball qualities I like to see a DM have, and a midfielder in general, really.
 
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I’m not a fan of Fred, and we don’t really need both players. But given our lack of depth elsewhere, and as we expect a good amount of churn this summer I would keep both to provide some continuity.
 

Art

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Both of them are box to box players with glaring weaknesses in different areas. They've not done themselves any favours since the restart. Hoping they put their head down during pre season and get better.
 

Nep77

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We need a DM and considering we don't have lots of transfer budget, I am open to the idea of letting fred go and use that money to buy a starting 6. Also we have two midfielder coming up in Garner and Mejbri. Considering Garner will be out on loan for this season, Mejbri will be the fifth option on the middle behind Pogba Matic Scott and new midfielder.
 

andy dufresne

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Look lads , let's have a bit of common sense here shall we , I have said before on numerous occasions about Fred in particular , but also , about McTominay as well and at the risk of repeating myself , which I am going to do again for about the 200th time , these 2 players are simply not good enough to be playing central midfield or anywhere near the midfield area for our beloved club , Manchester United. I know folk are going to say they are not first choice picks from the manager but if you look over his team selection for this season and last , there are far far far too many occasions when Ole has started not one but both of them which simply astounds me for a multitude of different reasons. Fred is limited at best and he certainly is not of the calibre that United dictate and deserve.
 

andy dufresne

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McTominay is certainly no world beater either is he , let's be honest here and is more of what I would term a squad player who can come in when called upon from time to time but , as for both of them , when other more talented players are fit , they should be on the bench at best