MEN: Carrick and McKenna next in line for contract extensions

Presto

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It's well known once you take the pressure of a permanent job employment, the same underperforming applicants start performing waaaay over their capabilities.
Still doesn't make much sense as the overall ceiling of their capabilities can only be this high
 

Garethw

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This is just an utterly utterly bizarre decision from the club.

Only the most deluded of supporters thinks that both Solskjaer and his coaching staff are good enough.

I’ve said it time and time again that if Ole is to stay the entire coaching staff needs replacing with world class tacticians.

You cannot have such a limited manager backed up by such limited coaches. It’s a recipe for disaster.
 

jesperjaap

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This is just an utterly utterly bizarre decision from the club.

Only the most deluded of supporters thinks that both Solskjaer and his coaching staff are good enough.

I’ve said it time and time again that if Ole is to stay the entire coaching staff needs replacing with world class tacticians.

You cannot have such a limited manager backed up by such limited coaches. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Agree. Obviously we dont know what the backroom staff are doign behind the scenes, but the evidence on the pitch suggests it isnt great.

There are traits I like in SOlkjear, if he had a Quiroz or McCLaren for example behind him I think he would do a lot better, not saying that is the answer as still nto convinced by him anyway....but having both as you say, isnt working.

I always get concerned when the cameras go to th ebench and half the time McKenna and Carrick seem to have a blank expression an dhan don the chin, almsot like they are lost and have no idea from the body language. Maybe harsh, but it appears that way. I woul dsay for a numbe rof years now, bar the first 15mins of a game and the last if we are behind.....we must be one of the worst sides in the whole league in terms of pressign the ball, its actually amateurish a lot of the time
 

Rocksy

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Organizational continiuity is invaluable. Renewing staff on outgoing contracts is the only way to handle employment when the club is backing the ongoing project.

Fans who insist that we don't renew contracts "and wait and see" are wrong with regards to how a good workplace operates. Just imagine going to work every day and wondering if you're going to get fired in 6 months because you don't know if you're getting a a new contract? It's incredibly distracting and no way to foster a good working environment.
2 year max or rolling 1 year contracts should be good enough for inexperienced coaches like United have.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Excellent news. We should be doing everything possible to retain world's best and experienced coaching staff.

6 year deal for Ole next please.
 

Infra-red

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Woodward doubling down on his catastrophic managerial selection.
Quite the legacy he's leaving.

Eight years at the helm of one of the biggest, richest most historically successful clubs in all of football. A billion pounds spent on transfers. Five different managers hired. Major trophies won = zero.

Thanks for the good times, Ed.
 

Seij

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Brilliant. Nice guys always deserve new contracts.
 

Stig

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They need a fire in their backsides. Rewarding them with a new contract will just make them think everything is fine
This.
 

justboy68

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It doesn't really make any sense does it? Like has been said it's not like they have anywhere else to go. Stinks of a 'jobs for the boys' mentality at the club.
 

roonster09

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Amazing how everyone knows how good or bad Carrick and McKenna are.
 

roonster09

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The results are on the pitch. Who do you think is responsible? The janitor at Old Trafford?
Yeah, its not Pep who won PL, its his staff like Kidd, Arteta. Same with Klopp who apparently lost brain behind the attack when he lost his assistant.

Answer to your question, Its Ole as simple as that. No one has any clue apart from that.
 

RedRonaldo

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Great news, hope our marvelous brand of football could continue. And we could surely repeat the same amazing football in years to come… how exciting :drool:
 

roonster09

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Football teams and how they play are reflection of manager's vision, not coaching staff's vision.

Give the City staff to Ole, he will still play same football. Give this staff to Pep, he will play the same football.
 

7even

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Organizational continiuity is invaluable. Renewing staff on outgoing contracts is the only way to handle employment when the club is backing the ongoing project.

Fans who insist that we don't renew contracts "and wait and see" are wrong with regards to how a good workplace operates. Just imagine going to work every day and wondering if you're going to get fired in 6 months because you don't know if you're getting a a new contract? It's incredibly distracting and no way to foster a good working environment.
Hmm. That’s all good except you forgot one small little detail. Competence.

The so called “ongoing project” you mention isn’t successful enough.

You know. Zero trophies in three years. Our spendings and resources isn’t on par with our results. A significant part of our customers are complaining. If you open your eyes it’s “Ole Out“ more or less every day on social media. Search it on google if you’re insecure.

Why? The entertainment is often shit according to parts of our supporters. I can agree with that.

Media talks about it. Even Gary Neville. Our results isn‘t what supporters expected when the club bought Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. The management looks more and more clueless. Ole seems to lost it. He smiles after we loss points at home. Not everybody’s cup of tea.

Maybe you don’t agree. Thats ok. If I’m correct you’re from the same country as our manager. So your view is understandable. Or to be more specific. Those who’re a little bit familiar with Norway totally understand this, almost expects it.

In any other businesses incompetence and bad results would mean a change of management. That’s why people suggest Ole Out. This is also the reason people get upset when the club is prolonging incompetences by offering new deals to our assistant coaches.
 

Anustart89

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So that just tells me you didn’t read much about him. It was quite well publicised that Spurs were pissed that we poached him. Also more I’m saying he doesn’t just think ‘go out there and play’ he has a style of playing and knows far much more than you ever could about coaching tactics and football in general. But yeh belittle him because you’ve done now research into him.
Okay so he’s a fantastic coach who everyone wanted when he joined us. Fair enough, and I can’t argue with that since you seem to know his past history. But it leads us to three possible scenarios IMO.

a) he’s successfully implemented his style of play during the three years he’s been here, and this is what we get.
b) what we’re currently producing is not his style of play but he hasn’t been able to implement his style of play in three years,
c) this isn’t his style of play but nobody listens to him so his style of play doesn’t get implemented.

Does this fill you with confidence that all he and the others need is another three years and we’ll be fecking grand?

Not everyone makes it at the highest level, which goes for coaches and players, and there’s no shame in that. Meulensteen, for example, while being a supposedly great coach, couldn’t cut it as a top level manager, and McKenna so far, while being a great coach at youth level hasn’t done much to convince me that he’s a great coach at first team level.

The fact that Spurs were angry that we poached him shouldn’t affect the opinion of how he’s currently performing for us. Should we hold on to Charlie McNeill until he retires because City were pissed off when we poached him, even if he never turns out to be any good for the first team?
 
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Tom Cato

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1. Hmm. That’s all good except you forgot one small little detail. Competence.

2. The so called “ongoing project” you mention isn’t successful enough.

3. You know. Zero trophies in three years. Our spendings and resources isn’t on par with our results. A significant part of our customers are complaining. If you open your eyes it’s “Ole Out“ more or less every day on social media. Search it on google if you’re insecure.

4. Why? The entertainment is often shit according to parts of our supporters. I can agree with that.

5. Media talks about it. Even Gary Neville. Our results isn‘t what supporters expected when the club bought Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. The management looks more and more clueless. Ole seems to lost it. He smiles after we loss points at home. Not everybody’s cup of tea.

6. Maybe you don’t agree. Thats ok. If I’m correct you’re from the same country as our manager. So your view is understandable. Or to be more specific. Those who’re a little bit familiar with Norway totally understand this, almost expects it.

7. In any other businesses incompetence and bad results would mean a change of management. That’s why people suggest Ole Out. This is also the reason people get upset when the club is prolonging incompetences by offering new deals to our assistant coaches.
I've numbered the sentences so you know what I'm replying to, because you seem to be a bit all over the place.

1. Re: competence. You seem to be a bit confused about what this actually is.

Michael Carrick is employed as first team coach at Manchester United. He's got 524 First Division/Premier League games to his name along with 34 international outings. He's been part of Manchester Uniteds coaching staff since 2018. He's got vast first hand experience as a player and 3 full years as a coach(AM under Mourinho). He's well qualified for his current position.

Kieran McKenna has been part of Mancester Uniteds coaching staff at various levels since 2016, was tottenhams u-18 coach before that and holds a sports science degree.

Both are competent through education and sporting qualification to hold coaching roles at a elite level sportsclub. More importantly, you don't have any clue what they're doing. When you argue competence you're basing that off the on-pitch results over the last month of games.

2. Unless you are a member of the Manchester United board, this is an opinion, nothing more. I've rarely seen fans so passionate about winning the Carabao cup "at least" as I've seen them the last 2 seasons. The overall result trajectory has been increasing gradually every season. The Venn Diagram between "Club Improving in the league" vs "Fans saying we're competing for top4 at the very best" is a perfect circle.

3. Again, your opinion. We're 7 league matches into the current season and you're crying about lack of ROI? If you're not crying about the current season, are you crying about the previous season? But more importantly, I didn't even mention Ole in my reply, all I stated was that organizational continuity is important above all else. I know this because I run one. Having people on expiring contracts is a massive distraction and a detriment to what you're trying to achieve. I will give you props for not saying 9 years at least. Time dllation is a real thing in the black hole that is this forum when it comes to arguing how much time has passed since the current staff was hired.

4. If you're unhappy with the product, stop buying it. I'm happy to admit that not all the games the club play are good, bordering on frustrating. Some games are very good. Sometimes a team can dip in form and performances are impacted. it happens to every club under the sun. Its a bit what you expect from football. The bottom line is that we tried big name managers and big name spending for 7 years. We're trying something new now. I'm happy to ride out the process. Many fans have patience and don't feel entitled to things simply because of the club we choose to support. I'm one of them. Others aren't, and that's fine, but we don't have a lot to talk about.

5. The club has had some disappointing results over the past 4 weeks, of course they're talking about it. It's their job to talk about ongoing events. I'm not going to reply to the rest because its the same circlejerk of talkingpoints that goes nowhere. Ole smiling, jesus.

6. You took a post I made about the importance of having staff on outgoing contracts knowing what their future holds so they can focus on their dayjobs and made it about me being biased because of Ole. Why can't an opinion be isolated without being made into something I never even said?

7. People arent "suggesting" Ole out. The loudmouths on the internet are not suggesting anything, they're being as loud and agressive as they can get away with. But again, my post is not about the manager, its about the backroom staff and the importance of renewing contracts.

Listen, you can disagree with me as much as you'd like and even pretend I don't know anything about anything, but you have to realize that what you're writing is opinion, not fact. You don't have the faintest idea what any of those coaches do from day to day, all you base your opinion on is what happens on the pitch.

At some point, its really time to start looking at the players and demand that they play better, they are being handsomely paid to perform well.
 

Bobade

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I don’t think they come up with “ideas” at all. It’s all about get the best players on the pitch and hope they do something on their own and win the game. There isn’t a plan.
Do people actually believe this ? Whether you like the style of play or not, this can't possibly be true. Its a load of shite.
 

Ibi Dreams

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I've numbered the sentences so you know what I'm replying to, because you seem to be a bit all over the place.

1. Re: competence. You seem to be a bit confused about what this actually is.

Michael Carrick is employed as first team coach at Manchester United. He's got 524 First Division/Premier League games to his name along with 34 international outings. He's been part of Manchester Uniteds coaching staff since 2018. He's got vast first hand experience as a player and 3 full years as a coach(AM under Mourinho). He's well qualified for his current position.

Kieran McKenna has been part of Mancester Uniteds coaching staff at various levels since 2016, was tottenhams u-18 coach before that and holds a sports science degree.

Both are competent through education and sporting qualification to hold coaching roles at a elite level sportsclub. More importantly, you don't have any clue what they're doing. When you argue competence you're basing that off the on-pitch results over the last month of games.
This is nonsense. There are millions of people in the world who are qualified and experienced and still incompetent. Playing football at a high level doesn't necessarily make you a good coach, nor does holding a sports science degree.

We don't know if they're good at what they do, because we don't know what they do and how much of an influence they have. Based on our performances this season, it's hard to imagine they're doing a particularly good job, though
 

Tom Cato

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This is nonsense. There are millions of people in the world who are qualified and experienced and still incompetent. Playing football at a high level doesn't necessarily make you a good coach, nor does holding a sports science degree.

We don't know if they're good at what they do, because we don't know what they do and how much of an influence they have. Based on our performances this season, it's hard to imagine they're doing a particularly good job, though
What I'm getting at is that they're both qualified to hold the positions they do. Re: competence: They wouldnt be hired if someone didnt find them competent enough to hold the position they do, nor renew their contracts.

Everyone are entitled to disagree about the jobs they do, but truth is that no one knows how good they are day to day.
 

roonster09

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Okay so he’s a fantastic coach who everyone wanted when he joined us. Fair enough, and I can’t argue with that since you seem to know his past history. But it leads us to three possible scenarios IMO.

a) he’s successfully implemented his style of play during the three years he’s been here, and this is what we get.
b) what we’re currently producing is not his style of play but he hasn’t been able to implement his style of play in three years,
c) this isn’t his style of play but nobody listens to him so his style of play doesn’t get implemented.

Does this fill you with confidence that all he and the others need is another three years and we’ll be fecking grand?

Not everyone makes it at the highest level, which goes for coaches and players, and there’s no shame in that. Meulensteen, for example, while being a supposedly great coach, couldn’t cut it as a top level manager, and McKenna so far, while being a great coach at youth level hasn’t done much to convince me that he’s a great coach at first team level.

The fact that Spurs were angry that we poached him shouldn’t affect the opinion of how he’s currently performing for us. Should we hold on to Charlie McNeill until he retires because City were pissed off when we poached him, even if he never turns out to be any good for the first team?
Which coach implements the style when you have manager in charge?

Do you think if Ole becomes ManCity manager with their existing staff, he will play possession oriented football? Likewise if Klopp or Pep becomes ManUtd manager with the same set up, do you think they will ask players to play forward passes all the time with little or no control on the game?

Coaches does that managers asks them to do, team is reflection of manager's vision.

Ole himself said he doesn't like passing the ball sideways and tippy tappy nonsense, he wants his team to go for quick forward passes and take risks, do you think we play in the exact same way that Ole described or it's completely different?

This is a recurring theme in almost all threads, drop Bruno we will control the midfield with one more midfielder, sack McKenna and Carrick as we are not playing well. They are not the ones who decides how we play, it's Ole.
 

Cardozo

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I’m starting to feel uncomfortable with Ole as manager, despite being a long advocate for the positive impact he’s had on the place after the previous managers.

However, the dreamer in me says this is the point we need to get to before we really turn it around. Fingers crossed they’re seeing something in the background we can’t see.
 

Real Name

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I don't know the work they do behind the scenes so can't really comment if it's good or not.. neither can anyone else. The responsibility of everything working or not lies with the manager though. They pick their own coaching staff to do what they want. So this is just extending them to what Ole is extended to.
This and few posts from @roonster09 should have closed the thread. Instead we have a crying fest.

If things will go bad Ole will be first on the line and extending contracts to Carrick and McKenna doesnt change that.
 

devilish

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It would be naive to pretend otherwise. McCarricky are Ole's men. Everything surrounding the coaching staff (tactics, coaching, man management) are all on Ole.
 

Real Name

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Honestly I hadn’t heard of him before he joined us. Now I’m not saying I know every single top coach but I usually know about the coaches we hire cause I genuinely like to read up on them and see their style of play. But being a great U-18 coach doesn’t mean anything if you don’t adapt to the level of completion and players you’re playing with. It just means you aren’t good at your job. Same with players coming from the Championship. Just cause they smashed it in the Championship doesn’t mean they will smash in the PL.
He is the assistant coach, you know that?
First you said you didnt know about him then you concluded he isnt good at his job cause we arent playing good. All the while him being an assistant coach.
 

pocco

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Simon Stone is pretty much accepted as the club mouthpiece now and he said something at the end of his tweet about results shaping the future. I'm just clinging to that in the hope that Woodward or whoever has told Stone that they won't just allow it to go on forever despite this show of support.

On a separate note, this feels like the 3rd or 4th show of support in Ole's 3 years :lol:
 

pocco

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It's quite liberating tbh. You only feel pain if you actually had hope of winning something. Now I know our aim is to get top 4. We'll be Arsenal under Wenger, minus the FA cups.
I need to get my head into this mindframe. I'm sometimes actually jealous of the Ole In lot how they can just take solace off the fact that an ex player manages us, and that is enough. I want more than anything to enjoy United again, go to games and hope I'm going to be excited by what I see, have some hope that our amazing team will produce amazing things. I must be a bloody fool because apparently none of that matters in football.
 

Womp

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I need to get my head into this mindframe. I'm sometimes actually jealous of the Ole In lot how they can just take solace off the fact that an ex player manages us, and that is enough. I want more than anything to enjoy United again, go to games and hope I'm going to be excited by what I see, have some hope that our amazing team will produce amazing things. I must be a bloody fool because apparently none of that matters in football.
It's so odd - it's not even like we can attack the spending. They have spent money that should have has up there, but they seem so happy to accept mediocrity in other aspects of the team.