Merson: "Man United need 700 million!"

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Walters_19_MuFc, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Oct 10, 2019
    #41

    Hawks2008 Full Member

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    If we continue with the brexit transfer strategy and only buy from other PL teams who are loaded then ywah, we might be able to get 5 or 6 players for 700m
  2. Oct 10, 2019
    #42

    Rhyme Animal Modmins said "freeze" and I got numb

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    Surely it'd cost less than 700m to sack Woodward and Ole and hire a decent DoF and manager...?
  3. Oct 10, 2019
    #43

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018 Staff

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    Even though that £700 million figure seems outrageous at first glance, Merson is not entirely wrong, I think...especially considering there has been a paradigm shift in transfer market economics in the post Neymar to Paris Saint-Germain era. Real Madrid, for example, have spent approximately £450 million in the last couple of seasons despite winning three European Cups on the trot, Barcelona have spent close to £600 million in the last three seasons, Juventus, who are traditionally quite reserved with their money have parted with ~£400 million since 2018, even Atlético have spent upwards of £350 million on incoming players since 2018 — and these teams had stronger platforms to build on, too. I'm not arguing that all of that was money well spent, it wasn't always...just pointing toward the spending by the Spanish Big-3 and the lone Italian heavyweight as they relentlessly strengthen their teams for the intoxicating taste of European glory.

    Liverpool are often cited for their comparatively cheap rebuild job in recent years but they are outliers from the general trend in the elite rung of club football because of the shrewdness of Klopp and Edwards in that period, and got extremely, extremely lucky with the trio of Firmino, Mané, Salah — one of the best pieces of business any club has done for a specific portion of the pitch in this decade (up there with Pirlo, Vidal, Pogba for Juventus). Additionally, their manager is worth £200+ million on his own because he engineers the system their players thrive in, motivates them to outperform (vis-à-vis the transfer spending), and has a history of assembling, or getting the best out of, a very competitive team without an elite-tier budget (like at Dortmund where Lewandowski, Gündogan, Reus, Hummels, Großkreutz, Piszczek, Kagawa, Bender cost less than £100 million combined and Götze, Schmelzer came through the ranks).

    United probably needs a #9, a right winger, a multi-purpose midfielder, a central midfielder, a defensive midfielder, a leftback and maybe a central defender to complete the starting XI. Taking the names that are usually touted by Redcafe posters...
    • Sancho: £160m
    • Maddison: £80m
    • Florentino: £70m
    • Ruiz: £80m
    • Håland: £50m
    • Chilwell: £60m
    Estimate of £500 million (maybe a bit more if selling clubs jack up the prices) for 6 players and we might have a team that can consistently contend for the league title. Once that initial task of getting the XI up to scratch is complete, you have you address depth as well, and...there's no guarantee that every one of them will be an instant or long term hit, so the spend could well balloon up to £700 million when you account for variables like replacements or miscellaneous additions to create a competitive edge. If the objective if to re-establish United as a domestic force and an equal of traditional European adversaries, the Glazers will have to spend at least £500-600 million (or hope they get extremely lucky with the appointment of a proverbial alchemist as the manager, or build a robust footballing structure like at Ajax or Red Bull Leipzig/Salzburg...which is unrealistic and will take time to bear fruit, or all of the aforementioned at once).
  4. Oct 10, 2019
    #44

    Son New Member

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    Would love our club to buy a squad like that but it’s never happening under the Glazers. We could do all that in one or two summers if they had a serious plan for us.

    The stadium needs renovating or a new one building next to it to boot which ironically could have been built by now with what they’ve taken out our club.

    Barcelona investing so much puts us to shame due to both clubs earning similar revenues and Barcelona having a higher wage bill.
  5. Oct 10, 2019
    #45

    MackRobinson Full Member

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    The £700 figure is absolutely crazy unless you are City, PSG, or the entire squad is sold and replaced.
  6. Oct 10, 2019
    #46

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    If we are going with 'sign the obvious players' then even 700 million isn't enough, we should go with smart signings. There are plenty of clubs who have showed us how to operate in the transfer market, we need to change the way we are targeting the players.

    Few of the transfers post Neymar deal, I didn't include clubs like Southampton, Leicester who take punts on signings from lower league. Only signings from the clubs who are among top 3 in their leagues + Arsenal.

    Fabian Ruiz - 30 million
    Barella - 35-40 million
    Sensi - 25 million
    Lautaro Martinez - 14 million
    Skriniar - 20 million + junk players to push up the value
    Cancelo - 40 million
    Bernardeschi - 40 million
    Bentancur - 12 million
    Ramsey, Can, Rabiot - Free transfer
    Fabinho - 40 million
    Salah - 40 million
    Robertson - 8 million
    Tierney - 25 million
    Torreira - 25 millon
    Guendouzi - 8 million
    Laporte - 65 million
    BSilva - 50 million
    Arthur - 35 million
    Vidal - 18 million
    Lenglet - 35 million
    Hermoso - 25 million
    Felipe - 20 million
    Rodri - 25 million
    Hummels - 30 million
    Throgan Hazard- 25 million
    Brandt - 25 million
    Alcacer - 21 million
    Witsel - 20 million
    Sancho - 7 millon
    Pavard - 35 million
    Goretzka - free transfer
    Tolisso - 40 million
    Coman - 20 million
    Sule - 20 million
    Gnabry - 8 million
    Gueye - 30 millon
    Sarabia - 18 million
    Herrera - Free transfer
    Juan Bernat - 5 million

    When it comes to ManUtd, I can't think of 1 good value for money signing since 2017-18. We should revamp our recruitment structure, there will be plenty of good players available for good money.
  7. Oct 10, 2019
    #47

    Zed 101 Full Member

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    His dealer?
  8. Oct 10, 2019
    #48

    Manny Grammar Police

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    700m, so Sky can carry on pissing and moaning about how much money we have spent and Merson can stay in a job.
  9. Oct 10, 2019
    #49

    Invictus Poster of the Year 2015 & 2018 Staff

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    Yep, hard to disagree with that...would be the ideal way forward, indeed — signings that aren't Galáctico level in terms of outlay because they're overlooked or yet to reach an elite standard, but produce a sub-Galáctico (or even Galáctico level if things good exceedingly well) impact. After all, we did establish ourselves as one of the best teams in Europe partly because of exceptional value-for-money signings like Carrick, Evra, Vidić, Park, Van der Sar in the mid 2000s — but that approach will require the right manager as well as type of composure, timing, expertise and maneuverability (as well as a good deal of cosmic luck, considering not all signings that look sensible at the time turn out as well as you'd hoped: like Mkhitaryan or worryingly Dalot, who was supposed to be our Kimmich/Carvajal) we haven't really evidenced in recent years when you look at our recruitment patterns.

    Even Real Madrid, for all their maniacal spending in the mercato over the years, did a lot of smart business with the re-signing of Carvajal from Leverkusen, Varane from Lens for peanuts, and most notably: the midfield of Kroos, Casemiro, Modrić (arguably the best trio since Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets) for just £65 million — 5 starting XI players through the back-to-back-to-back Champions League winning stretch for less than £100 million, 6 if you include Keylor Navas for just £8 million.

    You could possibly swap Chilwell for Tagliafico, Maddison for Olmo, Ruiz for Szoboszlai, etc. from that list — and still manage to build a very competitive team under the right manager (who can build the optimal structure for them) while saving a good deal of money. Though on the basis of our most recent transfer market activity, where we opted for one-the-nose signings like Maguire (highly touted Premier League defender) Wan Bissaka (rated as the best young English fullback after Alexander-Arnold so an obvious target), you do get a sense that we aren't casting a very wide net and aren't fully committed to exploring options beyond our obvious comfort zone (that includes Dan James...who was also a domestic acquisition).

    That needs to change if want to lessen the financial outlay through our rebuild, because there's a lot of value to be had — including South America, a market that we don'e explore all that often because of a few less-than-deal past experiences, even though it has produced midfielders like Arthur and Bentancur in recent years when we needed players in those positions/roles — and currently has others like Henrique (Arthur's successor as regista at Gremio) or Guimarães. Targeting Bosman signings would also be a sensible strategy, considering Juventus rebuilt and strengthened with Pirlo, Pogba, Khedira, Alves, Rabiot, Can, Ramsey by being in the right place at the right time and providing the right project/wage-packet for the players. Though with that wheeler-dealer approach, we will have to be ruthless and quickly re-sell players that aren't good fits instead of hanging on to them ad infinitum, like we often tend to do — because you can't get all of the transfers right, and must not be afraid to rectify the errors sharpish.
  10. Oct 10, 2019
    #50

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    Doesn’t look like a huge spend to me considering where they are now. They’re arguably the best team in Europe while plenty of their European counterparts have spent far more than them in the same timeframe.

    Anyhow as I alluded to in a later post; my point is that people need to stop droning on about spending mental amounts. First and foremost we need to sort our structure out and get a DOF in place with the right manager and coaching staff. We need a manager in the Pep / Klopp mould that has an actual vision and a system. We’ve spent a feck tonne of money since Klopp took charge at Liverpool and look at the absolute state of us. As I said, spending money certainly hasn’t been our problem, it’s how we’ve spent it. How much combined did Liverpool spend on Mane, Salah and Robertson and how much did we spend on Pogba? The two fees must be similar. Whereas other teams sign players to fit a style, we just fragrantly throw money around at the wrong players and have no coordinated transfer strategy.

    Obviously Klopp was going to spend, he needs a very specific type of a player to play in his system. But he showed clear signs of progress after literally weeks and was thus backed. Our problem has been a distinct lack of modern day coaching post Fergie. We literally play with zero semblance of cohesion and have no idea how to play as an attacking unit. It’s sad, so fecking sad, that we’ve fallen to where we have but muppets like Merson spouting that we need to just throw money at the problem isn’t the answer, as we’ve proven time and again post Fergie.

    Liverpool have the best fullbacks in the league and what was their combined transfer total? I don’t think either are nearly as good as they look under Klopp but that’s what a world class coach / manager will do. The coaching our players receive is nothing short of disgraceful. We haven’t adapted any of our playing methods to modern day football and it’s frightening how far behind the other top European clubs we are. While coaches and managers have been evolving their methods we’ve went for four managers who have / had zero intentions of evolving with the footballing world. I literally have no words for Ole, great guy and a legend as a player, but a woeful manager with no ideas how to coach this team into even attempting to play modern cohesive attacking football.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  11. Oct 10, 2019
    #51

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Completely agree with all of this, the bold part is the biggest piece of the puzzle. Right manager will solve most of the problems.

    Like you mentioned, we are afraid to make chances. We are not ruthless to sell/release under performing players or not proactive enough to change coaches when things are not going well.

    Our recruitment policy reminds me of FM save where you start as lower league manager, your scouting range is only UK and can't scout players outside of it. We are wasting too much money to sign good players when we could have signed similarly talented players for half of that price if we widen our range of targets.

    If we really believe our squad is very poor then we need many players, when that's the case we should be looking for 'value for money' signings.
  12. Oct 10, 2019
    #52

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    No, I can honestly say I’ve seen zero progress under Ole. If anything, I think we’ve regressed since Jose and I wanted Jose out as much as the next person. I get the visa-versa early days Klopp example but I feel his attacking play was noticeably improved early on. We’ve played nothing but dour defensive football for years now and I don’t see much of an improvement with us defensively other than we now have the worlds most expensive centre back.

    It’s frightening just how utterly clueless we look going forward. I genuinely can’t believe how dated and archaic our football is. Ole was a great interim choice as he brought the feel good factor back following Jose’s rants and negativity. But bar the start of his reign and that night in Paris, I see nothing but a manger woefully short of ideas and very much out of his depth. I literally can’t see any redeeming features with him and our football is so bad it’s unreal.
  13. Oct 10, 2019
    #53

    Lentwood Full Member

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    We don’t need £700m at all, we just need one top CF, one top CM and not to have 10 players injured between September and November every year
  14. Oct 10, 2019
    #54

    Havak Pokemon master

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    We need more than a cash injection though. £700m on the wrong players and wrong manager won't get us anywhere either.
  15. Oct 10, 2019
    #55

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

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    He's not far off. Fans are just burying their heads in the sand thinking we have unlocked potential in the likes of fecking Pereira, McTominay, Lingard, Shaw,Mata,Matic and sorry..... some of the kids.

    To challenge at the top table we need...

    LB
    CDM
    CM
    Pogba replacement
    #10
    RW
    Striker

    SEVEN first teamers. That will easily set us back over £500m as our scouting team is a travesty. We don't find top talent for lesser prices.
  16. Oct 10, 2019
    #56

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    I don't think anyone disagrees with that. However we will still need to spend a lot of money, there is no getting round that fact
  17. Oct 10, 2019
    #57

    Schmeichel's Cartwheel Full Member

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    We'd just waste it anyway.

    I think his point is we need 7 world class players.

    I think right now if we our to outright challenge for top honours we need

    - CB
    - LB
    - DM
    - CM
    - RW
    - LW
    - CF

    That's 7 starters. He's actually right.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
  18. Oct 10, 2019
    #58

    Adam-Utd Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid

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    Or we could scout better and get these players before they become mega expensive, just a thought.

    we aren’t even that far away anyway. 2/3 great players would transform this side with a good coach.

    add somebody like sancho, Thiago and a striker, maybe a new LB also. We’d be flying.

    eventually we can swap out the depth for better players but bridging the gap won’t be as hard as you think with the right man in charge.
  19. Oct 10, 2019
    #59

    AaronRedDevil Full Member

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    I mean hes not wrong. We need another CB,LB, 2 CM's, RW and a ST. Not to mention they still need to buy some more to bulk up the squad. Knowing United, each player will cost 100m each
  20. Oct 10, 2019
    #60

    Castia Full Member

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    We need more than that, a left back, right winger and second midfielder on top of what you mentioned in my opinion.
  21. Oct 10, 2019
    #61

    Schmeichel's Cartwheel Full Member

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    We badly need a left back and a right winger. People really need to stop assuming Shaw will come good.
  22. Oct 10, 2019
    #62

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

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    1 Billion dollars (puts little finger in mouth)

    Or...we use our supposed huge scouting network to find the next wave of players and actually develop them? Something we've been shocking at, but seemingly something loads of other clubs can manage.

    Who was the last player we signed who improved? That's actually a genuinely tough question to answer.
  23. Oct 10, 2019
    #63

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    Well we have spent a-lot of money post Fergie, that's a fact. Again, the point is that we need structure in place before we spend anymore money otherwise we will end up with more Freds, Mkhitaryans etc. We need a modern day manager with a vision to come in and build a team, that will inevitably cost money but it's about spending the money wisely mixed with coaching what we already have and improving players.

    Merson randomly spouting that we need to spend £700m offers zero context or insight into what we actually need. Sure we could feasibly spend that amount and be as bad as we are now, in five years time. This is what will happen if we keep appointing the wrong managers and don't have ant strategy in the transfer market.
  24. Oct 10, 2019
    #64

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    And as I have said, we do not disagree
  25. Oct 10, 2019
    #65

    Will Singh Full Member

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    Must be on the Columbian marching powder...
  26. Oct 10, 2019
    #66

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    But that's the whole point, these so-called 'football experts' randomly spouting what we apparently need to spend offers zero context into our situation. Had this group of players been properly coached by a modern manager for 2/3 years now, we would be far better off than we are now. That would have been without spending a single penny more than we have and having the exact same squad.
  27. Oct 10, 2019
    #67

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    Not if you do not have the required quality in the squad. See Liverpool under Klopp for the first 2/3 seasons, didn't really improve much in terms of league positions, they played good football but the also did under Rodgers. It wasn't until they started adding real quality that they became a top side.

    No one is saying we can't get better with coaching, but United want to be challenging for the big trophies which will require spending.

    Fact is we need:

    A new structure at the director level
    A new manager with excellent coaching staff
    A lot of new players (both with experience and also young talent)

    We will not compete long term without doing all of this, pundits talk about different things. Some talk about the structure, some talk about the spending, some talk about the manager. Fact is it all needs doing
  28. Oct 10, 2019
    #68

    Zlatattack Full Member

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    Are we discussing Paul Merson's opinion?! :houllier:
  29. Oct 10, 2019
    #69

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    My point is, we would be better off than we are now. Hence we wouldn't be where we are in the league while struggling against teams like Rochdale and AZ. We need those things as I've alluded to in earlier posts. Our coaching for years now has been beyond atrocious and it's part of the reason the team looks so utterly clueless. There are a multitude of reasons which I've already touched on but poor coaching / management has finally taken it's toll and we've hit rock bottom.
  30. Oct 10, 2019
    #70

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    You quoted a post where someone said Klopp had to spend to compete. I'm pointing out that no one disagrees with your point so you're arguing for no reason. We will need to spend to get to where we want to, we have to do a lot of things.
  31. Oct 10, 2019
    #71

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    You don’t need 7 £100m signings to make a decent side. We probably need 2-3 world class players.

    We could have bought Tielemans for £40m, Van Der Beek was available for £30m (buy out clause). Haaland cost Salzburg very little. There are plenty of instances like this where we can find better players than what we currently have without needing to break the bank every single time. The problem is the scouting and who the club is targeting every window.
  32. Oct 10, 2019
    #72

    Noc-Z ffs

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    To compile a squad of ready to go top-drawer players £700M is not at all unrealistic. He said he sees United as the biggest club in the world - so he is talking about winning the league and challenging for the Champions League isn't he? So, yeah - £700M why not.

    I'm surprised so many people are dismissing the figure. I don't see it as at all surprising.

    Of course what is unrealistic it to expect us to spend that. We won't be spending anywhere near £700M any time soon.
  33. Oct 10, 2019
    #73

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    I originally brought Klopp into it so it was they who originally quoted me. My point now, as it was then, was that there is far more to consider than just saying throw money at the problem which was a direct response, from me, to Mersons rubbish.
  34. Oct 10, 2019
    #74

    Cassidy No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser

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    Ive told you that we do not disagree here so there is no need to keep discussion it

    Merson isnt talking rubbish just like Neville isnt talking rubbish when he says we need a restructure. They are all right, we need to do all of it

    A restructure without the investment will not get us where we want
  35. Oct 10, 2019
    #75

    Robbie Boy Full Member

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    I have no idea why this discussion is going on as long as it has. I assumed once I clarified what I meant, that would be it. The fact is, throwing money at the problem is only part of the problem and should only be done when the right structures are in place. As of now, the right structures aren't in place and that is what needs prioritisation. The other fact is, we have outspent the majority of teams post Fergie and we're still utter wank. Time to take a more holistic approach to the situation.
  36. Oct 10, 2019
    #76

    acrebo Full Member

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    If you watch the video, he obviously bumbles along when trying to pick the figure... but, the gist of what he's saying is that we need "6 or 7 players".

    It saddens me to say it but he actually talks quite a bit of sense in the clip. I mean, it's common sense for the most part, but that in itself is an achievement for Merson.
  37. Oct 10, 2019
    #77

    OverratedOpinion Full Member

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    Paul Merson is often wrong and that isn't any different here.

    Throwing £700m at Galactico signings in the current set up might bring a short term rise in fortunes but not an actual solution. I am a bloody terrible cook but the shit I make will still taste better with ingredients from Waitrose. It still tastes worse than what a proper chef could make with basically nothing.

    It starts with having a good structure in place for recruitment, making sure the players we buy are the right ones for whatever system we are trying to incorporate. They then need to be well coached.

    It always seems like City and Liverpool have not had a dud signing in ages, that is because the conditions are there to succeed. We definitely need recruitment, even just for numbers but throwing nearly a Billion quid at the problem is not the answer (at least not the entire answer).
  38. Oct 10, 2019
    #78

    Rockets Redglare New Member

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    :lol: Nice.
  39. Oct 10, 2019
    #79

    Hughie77 Full Member

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    Is he still pissed!
  40. Oct 10, 2019
    #80

    Chaky_Best Full Member

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    He's usually wrong but I imagine that to be in position to compete with City or Pool, we would need a massive 500M over the next 2 summer transfer window

    Imagine that we must to upgrade Shaw, Matic, Lingard, Rashford and James, and replace Pogba this summer, we are around these figures.