Messi in Miami

Messi contributed 77 goals and assists in 75 matches (goal or assist every 84 minutes) for PSG as an attacking midfielder. I find that more impressive than scoring a goal per game as a striker. Not as good as he was at Barca, obviously, but that has more to do with him being heads and shoulders above every other player on the planet there.

A goal a game for Ligue 1? He scored 6 goals in his first season. He scored 16 in his second season.

I never said he wouldn't be one of the best of all time, but his performances for PSG Ligue 1 was just not good enough to be the best of all time failing both at trophy levels and individual level in a very very easy league.

"It was a decision I had to make because I had to leave Barcelona and I spent two years that I didn't enjoy.

This is what Messi himself said & personally is enough facts to show that he wouldn't be to the same standard outside of Barcelona - why?

Because Messi himself said it.
 
Imagine debating Messi v CR7 in 2025.

We are on the Yamal is the greatest of all time timeline now. Leave those old men in the 2010s
 
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In a parallel universe, Cristiano Ronaldo spent his whole career at United while Messi played for various different clubs and in this world, the same people are arguing that Messi doesn't deserve to be called GOAT because he always left his teams when their peaks were over.
 
A goal a game for Ligue 1? He scored 6 goals in his first season. He scored 16 in his second season.

I never said he wouldn't be one of the best of all time, but his performances for PSG Ligue 1 was just not good enough to be the best of all time failing both at trophy levels and individual level in a very very easy league.

"It was a decision I had to make because I had to leave Barcelona and I spent two years that I didn't enjoy.

This is what Messi himself said & personally is enough facts to show that he wouldn't be to the same standard outside of Barcelona - why?

Because Messi himself said it.

Is there even a single player in history who showed a GOAT level form for two different clubs? I can't think of a single one. Maradona showed it for Napoli, Pelé for Santos, Messi for Barcelona, Cristiano (if you include him in the conversation) for Real Madrid. Maybe R9 for Barcelona and Inter or Cruyff for Ajax and Barca.
 
No C.Ronaldo vs Messi chat in this thread. New
Guys, you’ve been asked nicely to keep the Cristiano vs Messi stuff out of this thread. Don’t get yourselves warnings and threadbans by not heeding.
 
Is there even a single player in history who showed a GOAT level form for two different clubs? I can't think of a single one. Maradona showed it for Napoli, Pelé for Santos, Messi for Barcelona, Cristiano (if you include him in the conversation) for Real Madrid. Maybe R9 for Barcelona and Inter or Cruyff for Ajax and Barca.

One thing it's status, another it's his personal level. I personally think that for instance Diego's peak was in Argentina and part of Barcelona, later he became an even more inteligent and pragmatic player due to maturity and how to handle his body at that point and what his team needed and obviously gain an even bigger global appeal.

Cristiano obviously had a bigger status in Madrid and became a more role oriented player, yet his physical peak maybe was in United and his fist stage in Madrid.

The variety of Clubs with Phenom/Genius alike players has more to do with context than anything else. Di Stefano easily could have stayed his whole carreer in River like Sivori, yet in the first case the Political conflict between players and the Ferederation pushed him out, with Sivori the need for money and to finish the stadium. Santos decided to build from Pele and him liked to be the major cathalyst for that. There was no urge to go to Europe.

Later when SA prodigies started to be bought more frequently, it was mostly a prior retirement stage and their afiiliation was pretty much non existant, so they would switch from club to club (same from less powerful Euro Leagues to the most powerfull ones). It's with rare cases, modern ones, where some SA kid can make a great part of his carreer in Europe as a youngster that they start to have that afilliation players used to have with their original SA clubs (Messi). Of course Barca being huge, would do anything to retain him and build around him.
 
I think Messi in Paris can be seen in a different light now we can see Madrid’s struggles with Mbappe and how it effects those around him. He got 77 goals and assists in 75 matches in an attack which should have been completely dysfunctional.

MLS is easy for him, even when he can’t run, and he won a World Cup too! These isn’t a lot more you can ask of someone who was, essentially, a one club man.

I think his time in the MLS is highlighting just how easy he finds the game. The incredible for one player, is a normal action for him, and I think that will be his legacy, how easy he made consistent brilliance look.

So easy, that it’s under appreciated.

He is the best playmaker of all time…who also happens to have nearly 900 goals. It’s honestly insane.
 
One thing it's status, another it's his personal level. I personally think that for instance Diego's peak was in Argentina and part of Barcelona, later he became an even more inteligent and pragmatic player due to maturity and how to handle his body at that point and what his team needed and obviously gain an even bigger global appeal.

Cristiano obviously had a bigger status in Madrid and became a more role oriented player, yet his physical peak maybe was in United and his fist stage in Madrid.

The variety of Clubs with Phenom/Genius alike players has more to do with context than anything else. Di Stefano easily could have stayed his whole carreer in River like Sivori, yet in the first case the Political conflict between players and the Ferederation pushed him out, with Sivori the need for money and to finish the stadium. Santos decided to build from Pele and him liked to be the major cathalyst for that. There was no urge to go to Europe.

Later when SA prodigies started to be bought more frequently, it was mostly a prior retirement stage and their afiiliation was pretty much non existant, so they would switch from club to club (same from less powerful Euro Leagues to the most powerfull ones). It's with rare cases, modern ones, where some SA kid can make a great part of his carreer in Europe as a youngster that they start to have that afilliation players used to have with their original SA clubs (Messi). Of course Barca being huge, would do anything to retain him and build around him.

Just to make it clear, I think the argument is stupid to begin with. My point was rather that very few players had comparably good stints at two different clubs and none of them are considered in the GOAT tier. That has less to do with it being so difficult but more with few players moving clubs when things are working out well enough both in terms of title challenges as well as salary. In my opinion, the very idea that Messi would struggle in any team of the world at his peak is completely irrational and solely born out of the will to find a stick to beat him with.
 
Just to make it clear, I think the argument is stupid to begin with. My point was rather that very few players had comparably good stints at two different clubs and none of them are considered in the GOAT tier. That has less to do with it being so difficult but more with few players moving clubs when things are working out well enough both in terms of title challenges as well as salary. In my opinion, the very idea that Messi would struggle in any team of the world at his peak is completely irrational and solely born out of the will to find a stick to beat him with.

I know man, I was just chatting about the subject of phenom/genius players and their affiliation with clubs or being more nomad.


PD: more than find a stick to beat him, there were certain outlest trying to find an angle to praise another. That whole idea was more related to the Madrid yelow press, the new social media world and the pride of English Clubs for their former golden boy.

As a side note, it's also great for some players to be have a great impact on every club they played or most of them, it's a great trait that if you ask me Tevez had it in spades, more than even Cristiano.
For Carlos was the epithome of doing it on any stage, any context, related to any sort of goal of the club when he was in them (be winning or progressing ina certain competition, to stay out of relegation). While at the same time, on the other side of the coin he never pushed his agenda for the NT with the same force and impact that he had at club level and at some point created a fvck up conflict; guilty ot not, he couldn't care less. Dammaging his stage at any of his clubs perjudicating his legacy...yet Cristiano will always remain the better player asi f it was necessary to clarify it.

Like I've always said, there is always two sides of the Coin with any fact that we might try to impose as the only fact, or preffeerd stuff, being pitches, periods, fouls, nomad or loyal, etc etc
 
I think Messi in Paris can be seen in a different light now we can see Madrid’s struggles with Mbappe and how it effects those around him. He got 77 goals and assists in 75 matches in an attack which should have been completely dysfunctional.

MLS is easy for him, even when he can’t run, and he won a World Cup too! These isn’t a lot more you can ask of someone who was, essentially, a one club man.

I think his time in the MLS is highlighting just how easy he finds the game. The incredible for one player, is a normal action for him, and I think that will be his legacy, how easy he made consistent brilliance look.

So easy, that it’s under appreciated.

He is the best playmaker of all time…who also happens to have nearly 900 goals. It’s honestly insane.

If we are talking about the subject seriously, the main thing with Messi at that point with PSG, it's that he felt betrayed by Laporta and clearly surprised.

I'm not entering the rabbit hole of how he handle himself in Barca, well or bad, yet of the particular circumnstances at that stage.

Prior to his exit, he even asked to let them go in his war (among other players) against the Barca Management...there he was angry, he even call for an interview, he was prepared (already in talks with Clubs he really wanted), willing to go.

When Laporta arrived and clearly used him in his Campaign (not judging if good or bad for Barca), promising that everything was going to be fine yet being somehow "fired" at the last minute, he felt it like a betray. He was pretty fvcked up, no pre season, had to move asap all his family, not really his best choice of destination and that was showed.

What I don't agree at all with him, it's in his apporach.

He should arrived to PSG on a Mission, in the same manner of a Leader like in barca or Argentina, like the way he looked ready prior when he asked for leaving.

He shouldn't let Ney keep the number 10, he should have put Mbappe on line with his spoiled attitude (for the benefit of Killian and the team) and not just be tidy, the the good Pro boy, while keeping his legs fresh for the WC.

He was a Pro, he wasn't a traitor like Ultras made out of be, he never reacted to all the shyte around and did his job.
Yet you'll see him fighting more even NOW, being more angry with this huge fvck up team in his retirement than in his PSG days.

Of course he still was Messi and till now Mbappe's biggest assist provider ever, his numbers even in CLs aren't bad at all, yet was the Barca 2018/19 on a Mission version? the one in the WC22? the one nowadays in Inter Miami that looks even funny being at times so comitted? Nope.

He was already more fit in his second campaging, playing really great specially the first stage of the season, yet a more vociferous, more Leader Messi was needed in that PSG that the one they got and even with silly Ultras and all, he should have go there put in line Ney and Killian, no matter if PSG in those days lacked really good coaches, that Verratti/Vitinha had so many up and lows and the team lacked a lot of balance; there was no angry Messi there on a Mission and that was what PSG needed.
 
Imagine debating Messi v CR7 in 2025.

We are on the Yamal is the greatest of all time timeline now. Leave those old men in the 2010s
Yamal is definitely the greatest of all time, and he dances better than Messi and Ronaldo as well. Case closed.
 
Yamal is definitely the greatest of all time, and he dances better than Messi and Ronaldo as well. Case closed.

Nobody dances like Diego, Romario and Ronaldinho...well maybe Neymar, yet I didn't see him