Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


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KirkDuyt

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Fallon D'flor :lol:
 

roonster09

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I have watched so many great footballers over the last decades and I have never seen a player like Messi.

He has the most amazing level of ability. He can dribble like Maradona, can score goals like the Brazilian Ronaldo, can pass like Zidane, the football intelligence of Socrates, he can also tackle and win the ball.

Ronaldo is exceptional but Messi is a once in a lifetime genius.
Yeah, this is how I see it too. if you break down football into categories like Passing, Dribbling, goal scoring and many more Messi will be considered GOAT or among the best ever in each of those categories. Such a superb footballer.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Messi and Ronaldo aren't even close in terms of their creativity.

Messi is arguably the greatest final 3rd passer ever(certainly top tier in that regard).
 

Saffron

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Another argument based on a falsehood. Totti's quote was in reference to the Balon Dor for 2017 and who should win it (out of the three players which is why Neymar was mentioned. He said "But I think that, in the end, Ronaldo is ahead of the others. He had an amazing season and also accomplished all of his goals with the most prestigious of teams."
Later on in the quote, he says “Despite the extraordinary job of [Chelsea manager] Antonio Conte and [Juventus boss] Maximiliano Allegri I think Zinedine Zidane is the favourite for the same reasons as Cristiano Ronaldo: he won everything the last season.”
At no point did Totti say that Cristiano is a better player.
https://www.soccerladuma.co.za/news/articles/international/categories/messi-ronaldo-neymar-watch-1/francesco-totti-picks-between-lionel-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-neymar/282059?next=true

Infact 6 months later, Totti is asked specifically who is better of the two. Guess who he picks?
http://www.sportbible.com/football/legends-rivalries-francesco-tottis-hilarious-take-on-messi-ronaldo-debate-20180202
Thanks once again for laying bare the deceptions and misinformation of the Ronaldo camp. So Totti was asked about the Fallon d’Flor for a specific year. That explains everything.

For those of you who didn’t click the link, Totti clearly says Messi is better.
 

SirAF

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Thanks once again for laying bare the deceptions and misinformation of the Ronaldo camp. So Totti was asked about the Fallon d’Flor for a specific year. That explains everything.

For those of you who didn’t click the link, Totti clearly says Messi is better.
:houllier:

Also, I thought Totti was stuping and could «barely speak Italian»?
 

Saffron

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:houllier:

Also, I thought Totti was stuping and could «barely speak Italian»?
What’s your problem with a bit of humour? I already explained I didn’t imply anything negative. I just don’t like that pretentious French name.

I called Totti dumb for bringing Neymar into the discussion, but that doesn’t apply anymore since he was talking about a specific award.

Remember how I said it was like bringing Andy Murray into a Federer/Nadal debate? It is, unless you are talking about achievements during a specific year. In 2016, Murray won Wimbledon, reached 2 more Slam finals and was ranked World no 1. So yeah, he’d be in with a shout for winning the Knockon d’Dor for tennis that year.
 

MJJ

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What’s your problem with a bit of humour? I already explained I didn’t imply anything negative. I just don’t like that pretentious French name.

I called Totti dumb for bringing Neymar into the discussion, but that doesn’t apply anymore since he was talking about a specific award.

Remember how I said it was like bringing Andy Murray into a Federer/Nadal debate? It is, unless you are talking about achievements during a specific year. In 2016, Murray won Wimbledon, reached 2 more Slam finals and was ranked World no 1. So yeah, he’d be in with a shout for winning the Knockon d’Dor for tennis that year.
Actually you called him stupid and said he doesn't even know how to speak Italian.
 

SirAF

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What’s your problem with a bit of humour? I already explained I didn’t imply anything negative. I just don’t like that pretentious French name.

I called Totti dumb for bringing Neymar into the discussion, but that doesn’t apply anymore since he was talking about a specific award.

Remember how I said it was like bringing Andy Murray into a Federer/Nadal debate? It is, unless you are talking about achievements during a specific year. In 2016, Murray won Wimbledon, reached 2 more Slam finals and was ranked World no 1. So yeah, he’d be in with a shout for winning the Knockon d’Dor for tennis that year.
Fairly juvenile humour I must say. Just call it the Golden ball if you don't like the official french name.
 

Saffron

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You should count yourselves lucky we’re going easy on the nicknames, because Messi has a classy Italian name that can’t be parodied. Whereas your hero doesn’t.

Just off the top off my head: Ronaldo McDonaldo. But I’ll stop there because it would be an unfair advantage.

Back on topic: Ronaldo is 35 next season. Will he be an another ”Zlatan” thinking he is immortal but only bagging 17 league goals in old age? He’s well on his way I’d say.
 

KirkDuyt

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You should count yourselves lucky we’re going easy on the nicknames, because Messi has a classy Italian name that can’t be parodied. Whereas your hero doesn’t.

Just off the top off my head: Ronaldo McDonaldo. But I’ll stop there because it would be an unfair advantage.

Back on topic: Ronaldo is 35 next season. Will he be an another ”Zlatan” thinking he is immortal but only bagging 17 league goals in old age? He’s well on his way I’d say.
Genius, please spare us further embarrassment!

I wouldn't be surprised if Ronaldo bags another 25 next season honestly. Not like Juve have anyone to really oppose them domestically.
 

2mufc0

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You should count yourselves lucky we’re going easy on the nicknames, because Messi has a classy Italian name that can’t be parodied. Whereas your hero doesn’t.

Just off the top off my head: Ronaldo McDonaldo. But I’ll stop there because it would be an unfair advantage.

Back on topic: Ronaldo is 35 next season. Will he be an another ”Zlatan” thinking he is immortal but only bagging 17 league goals in old age? He’s well on his way I’d say.
So bitter:lol:
 

RedRonaldo

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More chances created, more key passes...the problem is some of you don’t know how to proper measure creativity, the stats I mentioned are probably more important than just assist numbers which Messi has more than Ronaldo every year also.
Well it really depends on how you want to define the term "creativity" in football sense. For argument sake, in extreme case, a a player can keep creating bad chances after bad chances, does it mean he is the most creativity player ever? Of course not, its matter to subjectivity to judge whether the chances are higher quality or not. For me, to take aways such subjectiveness/bias, I would rather define creativity as "ability to create chances which lead to goal", which is the ultimate purpose of creativity in football anyway. And the only stats which reflects the most truth of it, is assists stats. Sure some assists could be bad (deflection) while some could be great (dribble past 5 players and play a through ball 5 yard in front of goals etc), a stats tells you nothing about the quality. But in very long run, we are talking about whole career comparison of over a decade (800-900+ games etc) it sorts of even out and tends to reveal the truth of it. You just can't fluke assists after assists in 900+ games and end up with highest assists numbers in the game, its statistically impossible.

You're a pretty reasonable Ronaldo fan in this thread but Messi is on a different level to Ronaldo when it comes to creativity. Assist numbers often don't tell the whole story.

Look at the chances Jorginho created this season yet he recorded 0 assists whereas Ashley Westwood got 7 from the same position - does this mean Ashley Westwood is far more creative than Jorginho?


Messi is one of the greatest passers of all time, perhaps the best playmaker of all time. Ronaldo for all his strengths is not close, honestly. A season of Messi's best passes is longer than a career of Ronaldo's. I feel you're using assists to validate something you want to believe rather than using assists to measure what is actually true.
Well same as above, we define creativity differently, and I am looking at very long term comparison (over 12-15 years, 800-900+ games, 200-300 assists type of comparison), not just 7 assists in 1 season type of comparison. I agree Messi is far better in build up play, he is easily better in playmaking too, and he is in my opinion better passers of ball too (although I think Ronaldo is better in crossing), but that doesn't means he is far better in creativity. He is better, definitely, but Ronaldo has one of the best assists stats in modern football history too (total 218 assists, in average 15 assist per season for past 15 years, that's actually insane), I simply think that he deserves some respect at the very least.

On the other hand, I don't think Messi is one of the greatest passers of all time. Maybe only for throughball in the final third, but passing has more meaning than just through balls, and there are many different levels of passing which isn't really Messi strength - other than long and short pass, crossing and one-two, there are also weighted pass, passing which control the tempo of the game, passing which orchestrated the movement of the team etc I've seen some midfield great in the past really master the art of passing, Messi, although he is one of the best throughball passer I'ver ever seen, is not at that level overall.
 
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K13

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Yeah, this is how I see it too. if you break down football into categories like Passing, Dribbling, goal scoring and many more Messi will be considered GOAT or among the best ever in each of those categories. Such a superb footballer.
I think you have said it rather more eloquently than I have.

Most times you see a player and think if I worked very hard maybe I could do that but with Messi it is more a case - with me at least - of how does he do that, how does he see that.
 

K13

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Well it really depends on how you want to define the term "creativity" in football sense. .
I actually see creativity in being able to assess the players you play with and then choose the best available option based on the strength of the available players to get the best outcome.

Bernardo Silva did that brilliantly in the Nations league semi and final which is probably why he won MVP. His weight of pass and where he put the pass so players did not need to break stride was amazing.

Messi is a few seconds ahead of everyone else, he sees the bigger picture first and you only really see what he is going to do or the path to goal when he makes his first move of a sequence.
 

Saffron

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I think you have said it rather more eloquently than I have.

Most times you see a player and think if I worked very hard maybe I could do that but with Messi it is more a case - with me at least - of how does he do that, how does he see that.
And that is why Rio Ferdinand gets out of his seat and goes mental a lot of times when Messi plays, but not when Ronaldo plays.

I also think a reason why many Ronaldo fans say ”oh he tries and trains harder so he’s better” is a projection of their own shortcomings. They’d like to believe that they too could have been pro footballers with their rubbish talent had they just applied themselves.

They can’t come to terms with Messi’s unreal ability that they could never ever hope to match.
 

MJJ

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And that is why Rio Ferdinand gets out of his seat and goes mental a lot of times when Messi plays, but not when Ronaldo plays.

I also think a reason why many Ronaldo fans say ”oh he tries and trains harder so he’s better” is a projection of their own shortcomings. They’d like to believe that they too could have been pro footballers with their rubbish talent had they just applied themselves.

They can’t come to terms with Messi’s unreal ability that they could never ever hope to match.
:lol:
 

RedRonaldo

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I actually see creativity in being able to assess the players you play with and then choose the best available option based on the strength of the available players to get the best outcome.

Bernardo Silva did that brilliantly in the Nations league semi and final which is probably why he won MVP. His weight of pass and where he put the pass so players did not need to break stride was amazing.

Messi is a few seconds ahead of everyone else, he sees the bigger picture first and you only really see what he is going to do or the path to goal when he makes his first move of a sequence.
Which is basically same thing as I've been saying. Best outcomes is of course, goals. Surely even a very simple/modest 5 yard pass to an unmarked teammates who is more likely to score (assess the players with best option) which lead to goal (best outcomes), suits perfectly to your description. And that again basically points to assists stats. A player who've made over 200 assists, must be very good at creativity, under your very definition.
 
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K13

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Which is basically same thing as I've been saying. Best outcomes is of course, goals. Surely even a very simple/modest 5 yard pass to an unmarked teammates who is more likely to score (assess the players with best option) which lead to goal (best outcomes), suits perfectly to your description. And that again basically points to assists stats. A player who've made over 200 assists, must be very good at creativity, under your very definition.
Ronaldo is very creative. Just watching him play you can see the quality in everything he does.

Messi is extraordinary creative - he sees paths to the goal before anyone else and is able to get all the players to do what he wants them to do to end up with the outcome he wants. That does not necessarily mean he ends up scoring or providing the final pass to add to the stats - but his dna is pretty much over nearly every chance created when he plays.
 

MalcolmTucker

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On the other hand, I don't think Messi is one of the greatest passers of all time. Maybe only for throughball in the final third, but passing has more meaning than just through balls, and there are many different levels of passing which isn't really Messi strength - other than long and short pass, crossing and one-two, there are also weighted pass, passing which control the tempo of the game, passing which orchestrated the movement of the team etc I've seen some midfield great in the past really master the art of passing, Messi, although he is one of the best throughball passer I'ver ever seen, is not at that level overall.
While there are players who have mastered certain aspects of passing on a par or better than Messi, I have yet to see a player with the rounded passing skillset that Messi has. Who are these greats who have mastered the art of passing and are a level above Messi then?
 

do.ob

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Can we change the thread title to reflect Messi's crushing victory in the poll settling the matter?
 

K13

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And that is why Rio Ferdinand gets out of his seat and goes mental a lot of times when Messi plays, but not when Ronaldo plays.

I also think a reason why many Ronaldo fans say ”oh he tries and trains harder so he’s better” is a projection of their own shortcomings. They’d like to believe that they too could have been pro footballers with their rubbish talent had they just applied themselves.

They can’t come to terms with Messi’s unreal ability that they could never ever hope to match.
I am the same as Rio, when Messi gets the ball I am practically on my feet.

I do believe that Ronaldo deserves a huge amount of respect for the way he looks after himself. Tremendous discipline to do the warm downs and eat the right things, get enough rest. He is also a very gifted player with bundles of natural talent.

Messi is a genius and I would be more than happy to pay to watch him play after his pro career ends.
 

Tostao_80

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Genius, please spare us further embarrassment!

I wouldn't be surprised if Ronaldo bags another 25 next season honestly. Not like Juve have anyone to really oppose them domestically.
Another 25? Oh my, how goalscoring standards have fallen for Cristiano. What happened to days of 40 and 50 goals?. Leo, on the other hand?
 

KirkDuyt

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Another 25? Oh my, how goalscoring standards have fallen for Cristiano. What happened to days of 40 and 50 goals?. Leo, on the other hand?
People in this thread are so precious :lol:

I'm not in any camp mate, but good on you.
 

BlackShark_80

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While there are players who have mastered certain aspects of passing on a par or better than Messi, I have yet to see a player with the rounded passing skillset that Messi has. Who are these greats who have mastered the art of passing and are a level above Messi then?
Platini
 

GatoLoco

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While there are players who have mastered certain aspects of passing on a par or better than Messi, I have yet to see a player with the rounded passing skillset that Messi has. Who are these greats who have mastered the art of passing and are a level above Messi then?
 

MalcolmTucker

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I've gone out my way to watch a lot of Maradona and he was clearly a genius and surely one of the best passers of all time. I still don't think his passing is 'a level above' Messi from what I've seen though, although I prefer Maradona's style.
 

Aloysius's Back 3

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Another 25? Oh my, how goalscoring standards have fallen for Cristiano. What happened to days of 40 and 50 goals?. Leo, on the other hand?
Omg another 40 past getafe. Yawn.

Try something new Messi & let's call you the Goat if you pass the test.

Messi: no I am loyal

Ronaldo fans : okay then :drool:
 

roonster09

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nope i wasn't 7 years old when Platini retired, feel free to believe or not but he was better passer than Messi.
Your profile says 38 year old which means 1980/81 born. Platini retired in 1987/88.
 

BlackShark_80

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Your profile says 38 year old which means 1980/81 born. Platini retired in 1987/88.
yes i was 7 years old if you consider Platini retired in 1987, but he did later came out of retirement though for only an international friendly match representing Kuwait against Soviet Union in 1988. So by the time he was officially retired in 1988 i was 8 years old.
 

roonster09

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yes i was 7 years old if you consider Platini retired in 1987, but he did later came out of retirement though for only an international friendly match representing Kuwait against Soviet Union in 1988. So by the time he was officially retired in 1988 i was 8 years old.
Ha, that changes everything :D
 

2mufc0

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I don't see what the problem is with him not seeing Platini while he was active, there are plenty of full games of his available to watch and are easily accessible.

And I agree with him, if we're talking about full passing range he's better than Messi.
 

MalcolmTucker

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I've watched these four match highlights from Platini on youtube as I ate my breakfast this morning and at least on this evidence he is no where near as consistent as Messi with his passes and certainly isn't a level above by any stretch - lots of overhit passes, many intercepted and not reaching their man. I was very impressed by his close control and his passing is very good but Maradona and Messi are both better from what I've seen.


It screams of football hipsterism at best and agenda-driven bias at worse to claim Platini was 'a level above' Messi in regards to passing, especially if you're under 50 years old and never actually watched them both play regularly.
 
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KirkDuyt

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Nostalgia is one hell of a drug. Football was shite back then. Less money, less training, less serious less everything.