Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


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tomaldinho1

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Go ahead and list the top class Argentinian players from their back 5/6 who underachieved and were better than Meireles. I'll wait.
This has been answered extensively by other posters looking through the thread. You also originally said midfielders but even with the narrowing to 5/6 (which another poster pointed out isn't where he played anyway) he has nothing on Mascherano, Cambiasso, Gago. Argentina have always had an absolute surplus of talent across their midfield and attack & using Meireles is such a weird example - he was the definition of an average player who had good work rate. I'd say he wasn't even at the level of Herrera who is defintely an inferior player to the aforementioned Argentinians.

I get some people will fight Messi's corner no matter what is thrown at them but this isn't about Ronaldo vs Messi - it's a simple comparison of two national teams. Portugal vs Argentina on paper is so one sided over the last 15 years in Argentina's favour it's weird you don't see it.
 

Bebestation

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Ronaldo has played in 6 Champions League finals and has 4 goals??? How is that "painfully average" :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's funny how messi fans can call Higuain's goal against Belgium in a world cup a "pre- assist' - then bypass when Ronaldo does the same exact stuff in a CL final but for an assist instead haha
 

MrEleson

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Apart from being a better header of the ball (then again he's taller), there's nothing Ronaldo does better than Messi with the ball.
Better dexterity so is more dangerous with crossing, shooting and passing with his weaker foot. Better striking power (can arrow a shot into the top corner from obscene angles on the pitch). More flair and trickery (repertoire of skill moves at his disposal).
 

MalcolmTucker

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Better dexterity so is more dangerous with crossing, shooting and passing with his weaker foot. Better striking power (can arrow a shot into the top corner from obscene angles on the pitch). More flair and trickery (repertoire of skill moves at his disposal).
Not sure you understand what the word dexterity means.
 

Peyroteo

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because over half of them came in one game, he was painfully mediocre in 2014, 2016, and 2018. His form dips in the final compared to the earlier knockout rounds.
He played injured for both the 2014 and 2016 finals... and he was still important even without doing anything special. Even in 2018 he was out injured for a while before the final after an injury he picked up in a Clasico in Barcelona where he got subbed off at half time.

You're right that his overall performances in CL finals have been worse than in earlier rounds but there's a clear reason for it when he was having injury probems for half the CL finals he's played.
 

Daysleeper

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He played injured for both the 2014 and 2016 finals... and he was still important even without doing anything special. Even in 2018 he was out injured for a while before the final after an injury he picked up in a Clasico in Barcelona where he got subbed off at half time.

You're right that his overall performances in CL finals have been worse than in earlier rounds but there's a clear reason for it when he was having injury probems for half the CL finals he's played.
fair point buddy and he was great in 2017 final
 

Swoobs

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I don't have an agenda against Messi. I think he's amazing. He's just not as good as Ronaldo. But trying to claim that Messi is better than Ronaldo because Messi plays more through balls is ridiculous considering Ronaldo would be the one on the end of the through ball. You see, Ronaldo can make that pass, but there is no better player in the game to be on the end of it.

Put it this way.....let's say you're in the Champions League final and you need a goal. You have one sub left and for some odd reason both Messi and Ronaldo are on the bench. Who are you putting on??? If you say Messi, you're lying...
Ah the typical shifting of goal post, so despite no evidences or facts, you still assume that CR7 is as good as messi in passing but he has to play higher up the pitch so he has less throughballs and assist, so he chooses not to pass. Wow this mental gymnastic is out of this world.

So despite playing deeper, messi still had more throughballs, assists, key passes and similar amounts of goals per game, but no CR7 is as good a passer and goal scorer as messi, you do know how flawed your argument sounded right? Heck you might as well say CR7 is better than Federer in tennis, but because he preferred football hence Federer had better tennis stats than CR7, thats how stupid your argument is
 

Swoobs

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Oh come on in that situation a goal down or you need a goal whatever the case is whoever does not bring on Ronaldo in that scenario is losing.

Bigger threat in the box, sheer determination and grit, and he absolutely lives for those scenarios and moments.
Indeed CR7 is a biggest threat in the box and is far more determined than messi in the box as well. However, the poster has a goodpoint. If there are already supply lines to the box, CR7 is more dangerous, but if there are no supply lines or my team is being pinned back, messi is more dangerous. And to answer that even bigger CR7 fanboy that even yourself, no I am not lying, messi and cr7 has 2 different optimization skillset, so it depends on who else i have on the field
 

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Better dexterity so is more dangerous with crossing, shooting and passing with his weaker foot. Better striking power (can arrow a shot into the top corner from obscene angles on the pitch). More flair and trickery (repertoire of skill moves at his disposal).
How do you come to the conclusion that he's better at things he barely does? What good is his striking power if Messi scores more goals from further distances than him?
As for the more flair and trickery, how often does he actually beat players?
 

Jericho

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Better dexterity so is more dangerous with crossing, shooting and passing with his weaker foot. Better striking power (can arrow a shot into the top corner from obscene angles on the pitch). More flair and trickery (repertoire of skill moves at his disposal).
What does that part mean? He hasn't been much of a dribbler for a long time.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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This has been answered extensively by other posters looking through the thread. You also originally said midfielders but even with the narrowing to 5/6 (which another poster pointed out isn't where he played anyway) he has nothing on Mascherano, Cambiasso, Gago. Argentina have always had an absolute surplus of talent across their midfield and attack & using Meireles is such a weird example - he was the definition of an average player who had good work rate. I'd say he wasn't even at the level of Herrera who is defintely an inferior player to the aforementioned Argentinians.

I get some people will fight Messi's corner no matter what is thrown at them but this isn't about Ronaldo vs Messi - it's a simple comparison of two national teams. Portugal vs Argentina on paper is so one sided over the last 15 years in Argentina's favour it's weird you don't see it.
Back 5/6 was in reference to the entire defense / central midfielders.

Since 2016 Portugal have been significantly better by ELO and I'd argue that doesn't fully capture the difference - look at the team Argentina started in the 2014 WC final: Romero / Rojo - Garay - Demichelis - Zabaleta / Biglia - Mascherano / Messi - Lavezzi - Perez / Higuain. Compare that to the Portugal side that started the Euro final in 2016: Patricio / Guerreiro - Fonte - Pepe - Cedric / Carvalho / Mario - Silva - Sanches / Ronaldo - Nani. The only Argentinians making it into that Portugal side are Mascherano and Messi.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Better dexterity so is more dangerous with crossing, shooting and passing with his weaker foot. Better striking power (can arrow a shot into the top corner from obscene angles on the pitch). More flair and trickery (repertoire of skill moves at his disposal).
Irrelevant when Messi is far better than him at dribbling.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Messi is the greater Player maker (Does not mean Ronaldo is a bad one)

Ronaldo is the greater goal scorer (does not mean Messi is a bad one).
It is funny how you wrote it that way.

In reality, Messi's goal-scoring prowess is just as good as Ronaldo's. You can argue Ronaldo's a bit better, because of his aerial prowess. However, I think Ronaldo takes more bad shots than Messi does, so perhaps they are equal.

Whereas, Messi is levels above Ronaldo as a 'playmaker'.
 

SadlerMUFC

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You're absolutely deluded or incredibly stupid if you think Ronaldo is as good as Messi at playmaking but he just chooses not to :lol: Playmaking is regarded as more difficult than goalscoring generally, that's why Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldinho are all rated higher than Gerd Muller - if Ronaldo could playmake like Messi could, then he would - if Messi can playmake and also score as many as Ronaldo then surely that's flaw in Ronaldo's career.

We saw Ronaldo playing more of a creative role for United and early in his Real Madrid days and he has never shown the level of vision, consistency or technique that Messi has with his passing. Not even his most loyal fans in @SportingCP96 or @Peyroteo will claim otherwise. It's honestly a bizarre opinion to have when Ronaldo has so many other great attributes.
He is the 3rd highest in assists in La Liga history despite playing further up the field. Perhaps if you opened your eyes and stopped with the agenda against him you would realize this. Like I said, he can do that more if he wanted to, but he is better being on the end of those passes than making them himself. This is pretty basic stuff and shouldn't be that hard to understand...
 

SadlerMUFC

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Ah the typical shifting of goal post, so despite no evidences or facts, you still assume that CR7 is as good as messi in passing but he has to play higher up the pitch so he has less throughballs and assist, so he chooses not to pass. Wow this mental gymnastic is out of this world.

So despite playing deeper, messi still had more throughballs, assists, key passes and similar amounts of goals per game, but no CR7 is as good a passer and goal scorer as messi, you do know how flawed your argument sounded right? Heck you might as well say CR7 is better than Federer in tennis, but because he preferred football hence Federer had better tennis stats than CR7, thats how stupid your argument is
Yes
 

Baneofthegame

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Back 5/6 was in reference to the entire defense / central midfielders.

Since 2016 Portugal have been significantly better by ELO and I'd argue that doesn't fully capture the difference - look at the team Argentina started in the 2014 WC final: Romero / Rojo - Garay - Demichelis - Zabaleta / Biglia - Mascherano / Messi - Lavezzi - Perez / Higuain. Compare that to the Portugal side that started the Euro final in 2016: Patricio / Guerreiro - Fonte - Pepe - Cedric / Carvalho / Mario - Silva - Sanches / Ronaldo - Nani. The only Argentinians making it into that Portugal side are Mascherano and Messi.
Zabaleta easily gets in, Fonte could also be replaced, if the 14 team was fully fit Aguero and Di Maria would also make it.

Edit - Messi vs Ronaldo debate is still retarded.
 

SadlerMUFC

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Ronaldo doesn’t make through balls because he’s often at the end of them.. how about Henry at Arsenal? Or Suarez at Liverpool? Being goal scorers didn’t stop them from being playmakers.
I’m afraid you don’t have a point there
Dude, Ronaldo is the 3rd all time assist leader in La Liga history despite not being known for his passing. Perhaps you Messi fan boys should open your eyes a bit and pay closer attention :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

SadlerMUFC

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Well Messi is often the one making final passes and is also the one scoring the most, basically he has more responsibilities than Ronaldo on the field.

As for who I'll put on in that situation, it depends on what creative players i have on the pitch. We all know that Ronaldo can't come down to create, he's better staying further up to finish should the occasions or crosses come. So if I have a midfield that already has Kroos and Modric or better Yet KDB, then I'll bring in Ronaldo, otherwise i'm bringing in Messi because he can create and finish.
Again, how can ANYONE say that Ronaldo can't create? Again, he is 3rd all time in assists in La Liga. The thing is, he is such a good goal scorer, people tend to over look just how good of a passer he is...
 

sammsky1

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Put it this way.....let's say you're in the Champions League final and you need a goal. You have one sub left and for some odd reason both Messi and Ronaldo are on the bench. Who are you putting on???
This is actually a very good way of resolving this debate once and for all! Worthy of a poll @Damien
 

Zehner

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Seems like a bunch of Messi fan boys got their knickers in a bunch today. Sorry for giving you the facts :lol::lol::lol:
Dude, you said that Ronaldo is a better play maker than Messi. Do you really think you should call anybody a fanboy?
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Dude, Ronaldo is the 3rd all time assist leader in La Liga history despite not being known for his passing. Perhaps you Messi fan boys should open your eyes a bit and pay closer attention :lol: :lol: :lol:
I mean you're the one proclaiming Ronaldo can pass like Messi does, but he chooses not to.

That's complete nonsense.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Zabaleta easily gets in, Fonte could also be replaced, if the 14 team was fully fit Aguero and Di Maria would also make it.

Edit - Messi vs Ronaldo debate is still retarded.
Zabaleta I'll concede I suppose. Fonte for me is better than Garay or Demichelis by a not-insignificant margin. And Aguero didn't make it in over Higuain!
 

Bebestation

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Wow look at that 3rd goal. That is something that is put on a plate all the time to every player at Barcelona because everyone is made to play in a certain way. Barcelona have a certain way of football that only Barcelona can play; even when they are shit.

I'd just love to see him play one season in a different tactic to really see if he can be this creator, dribbler, finisher, creature in a different team that doesnt play so fluidly all the time.

If he could and got half the record he gets at Barcelona then all the fans would just shut up and say this is the best.

Why didnt he just move :( :(
 

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So the main thing Ronaldo has, Messi does even better :lol:
 

RedRonaldo

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because over half of them came in one game, he was painfully mediocre in 2014, 2016, and 2018. His form dips in the final compared to the earlier knockout rounds.
It happens to almost every key players out there though as opponents will always try to focus more on marking out the key players and setup their team in the way to cancel out opponents game in the final, hence most final are “boring“ as compared to semi etc

Remember Maradona in 86 WC? His form dips in final compared to earlier knockout rounds too, that doesn’t stop him becoming GOAT based on his overall 86 WC performance.
 
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RedRonaldo

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So the main thing Ronaldo has, Messi does even better :lol:
Over 200 games from Ronaldo are played as midfield winger in 442. You really think it’s fair to compare goals stats by midfielder vs forward player?
 

Matthew84!

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I'm really not sure why you'd spend time putting either player down, they are both great players, it's just a preference which one you like, I think Ronaldo as he's changed leagues and still scores, Messi has natural talent, where as Ronaldo turned himself into a powerful athlete, just appreciate them while we can.
 
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RedRonaldo

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Ah the typical shifting of goal post, so despite no evidences or facts, you still assume that CR7 is as good as messi in passing but he has to play higher up the pitch so he has less throughballs and assist, so he chooses not to pass. Wow this mental gymnastic is out of this world.

So despite playing deeper, messi still had more throughballs, assists, key passes and similar amounts of goals per game, but no CR7 is as good a passer and goal scorer as messi, you do know how flawed your argument sounded right? Heck you might as well say CR7 is better than Federer in tennis, but because he preferred football hence Federer had better tennis stats than CR7, thats how stupid your argument is
Not going to debate Messi vs Ronaldo in passing/playmaking, because Messi is simply better playmaker.

But I do think Ronaldo is underrated in his passing/ability to create goals. He is very good crosser actually, and his main role during his early years at Man Utd is to create chances and provide goals, with his runs in the wing and crossing. Sure he is not at Messi level in playmaking and providing those throughballs etc, but I reckon he is better crosser at the very least.
 

Daysleeper

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It happens to almost every key players out there though as opponents will always try to focus more on marking out the key players and setup their team in the way to cancel out opponents game in the final, hence most final are “boring“ as compared to semi etc

Remember Maradona in 86 WC? His form dips in final compared to earlier knockout rounds too, that doesn’t stop him becoming GOAT based on his overall 86 WC performance.
I still see Ronaldo as the greatest CL player, I was just responding to the fact that the other poster feels it was such a homerun call to have Ronaldo off the bench in the final, when the stats point to otherwise more often than not in those situations of the CL final.
 

LucasXXII

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Is there an underlying sentiment that playing through the middle is more respectable than whipping in a cross?

I mean, that's a major reason why Barcelona, among other successful teams in CL (namely Madrid in 2014-2018), is put on a pedestal and Ronaldo is considered as "can't create", isn't it?

People couldn't understand how Madrid won the CL 3 times in the row. People also couldn't understand why Ronaldo has that many assists. Then they look at the highlights and they think "it's just hoof-ball, it's all luck".

Especially on the forum of a club that has a tradition of flying wingers running down the side line and centering the ball. It's so bizarre.
 

Henandez14

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Dude, Ronaldo is the 3rd all time assist leader in La Liga history despite not being known for his passing. Perhaps you Messi fan boys should open your eyes a bit and pay closer attention :lol: :lol: :lol:
You’re right. It’s worth noting however that Messi has 169 and Ronaldo has 95. This may be slightly off topic but also found out Messi is the all time top la Liga goal scorer, top la Liga hat tricks, top la Liga goals scored in a single season. Tops every statistic category other than goalkeeper stats and most appearances. Ridiculous
 

Zehner

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I mean you're the one proclaiming Ronaldo can pass like Messi does, but he chooses not to.

That's complete nonsense.
Also since when are assists the measuring stick for passing ability? Doesn't Benzema have more assists than Xavi and Iniesta?
 

mancan92

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So the main thing Ronaldo has, Messi does even better :lol:

I miss this is a pedantic point considering anyone who followed their careers. Ronaldo played as rm for those first 150 games of his career whereas Messi has always played as part of a front 3.
 

Zehner

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I miss this is a pedantic point considering anyone who followed their careers. Ronaldo played as rm for those first 150 games of his career whereas Messi has always played as part of a front 3.
I suggest you take a look at their heat maps throughout the years..