I wonder why Messi never acknowledged he's always been pretty shit at penalties and let better penalty takers take them.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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Messi has a 77,5% conversion rate and Ronaldo a 83%. He's worse than Ronaldo for sure. But not all that wank. Messi does on occasion let his other team mates take penalites though to boost their confidence.I wonder why Messi never acknowledged he's always been pretty shit at penalties and let better penalty takers take them.
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who is the third greatest ever player in your eyes? I asked before but you may have missed it. Or maybe I missed your reply.I wonder why Messi never acknowledged he's always been pretty shit at penalties and let better penalty takers take them.
If you want to DM me the tweets I’ll see if I can post them for you
Under 80% is pretty shit for a top player, there's no getting away from the fact that penalty taking isn't one of the things he excels at, of which there are many.
I'd say Pele based on what I've seen/read.
Ronaldo has done this too.
Because it is a false narrative that Messi is not clutch and is not a big game player.
Do name some examples where Messi has turned a match/tie round when it's going against him. I know he's done it at times, but nowhere near as often as Ronaldo has.
For someone who is so likened to Gerd Muller and is supposedly only seen as World Class because he scores goals, it’s surprising he managed this during a time the EPL was probably at its absolute peak and with so many elite defenders around.
Ronaldo is obviously a victim of his own longevity. He’s essentially had 3 careers in one; with 3 very distinct iterations of himself at various points of his continuous evolution. The swashbuckling winger we saw in the EPL to the dominating all conquering forward in his early to mid years at Madrid and now his final metamorphosis; the deadly goalscorer.
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Ronaldo is obviously a victim of his own longevity. He’s essentially had 3 careers in one; with 3 very distinct iterations of himself at various points of his continuous evolution. The swashbuckling winger we saw in the EPL to the dominating all conquering forward in his early to mid years at Madrid and now his final metamorphosis; the deadly goalscorer.
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Ah ok. No love for Maradona?
You've done well to find this data as it proves what I have seen with my eyes. You'd think Ronaldo made a career on just being a poacher in the box. No doubt the Gerd Muller comparisons will creep up again.
Decision making has nothing to do with that.
Anyway, what is Neymar better than at Ronaldo and what makes him the better player? Something tells me this will undoubtedly go to the single lense you view football from.
Firstly I did not said Messi is a bigger big game player than Ronaldo, my saying is that narrative that Messi is not clutch is false.
Ronaldo statistically wins the big game battle, so I will not question his rating, as he has the most numbers of goals as game winning goals.
Although since you ask, let me highlight some high profile ones, which are coming in my mind, and I am just taking matches where he turned the tie away from opposition.
Messi vs Real Madrid in CL semis, El Classico debut, 2016/17 El Classico, Messi vs Bayern in semis, when they were 0-0 for nearly 80 mins, Messi vs Milan when Barcelona came back from 2-0, I want to say his group stage performances in World Cup and the recent performances in Copa, but I do not think they count as iconic moments.
Then you should know in these Messi debate you sound like that music major who is arguing how x band from the 70s were the greatest band of all time due to the suspended d minor arabian scale they used in the 4/5th beat rock song of theirs.Ironic, since Nirvana is one of my all time favourites
Saying Hazard is basically a less consistent Messi or Neymar is better than Ronaldo is practically that.
Personally I think his peak was too short, he's a bit like Ronaldinho on steroids in the sense his peak was amazing (WC86), had a few good seasons, then that's it.
Has has won big games, he's not some big game whimp I mean he's arguably the greatest player of all time. However, you can't deny there have been many occasions where he has gone limp at big games especially when the team is losing. It's happened far to many times to say that he is prone to that, especially compared to Ronaldo.
And the fact many thinks this doesn't matter in a GOAT debate is bias.
In fairness I think there could be argument to be had though. Like I could see how objectively the songs from Pink Floyd are better written than songs by Nirvana, but there is also an emotional undercurrent at play where the songs by Nirvana just resonate with me much more. And United fans will understandably have an emotional connection to Ronaldo the same way Barca fans would have an emotional connection Messi. And once emotions/nostalgia also come in to play…then it’s going to be a ton of back and forth.
Fair enough, like I said, I'm not saying Messi has never done it, just that he doesn't seem to be one player you can look for to step up his game when it's going against his team.
A little old, but still relevant:
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It does matter, but the thing is Ronaldo also had matches he was basically useless. His matches when he was in United against Barcelona, he got better in El Classico, only when Real Madrid started becoming a threat against Barcelona. Until he got the backing he was same as Messi.
I mean their ratio is similar in game winning goals, Ronaldo has marginally better but it is just by few 0.00056.
See the point is, Ronaldo has have had great performances where he turned the tables, but so does Messi. Just because he does not jump and cry Sui, does not mean Messi does not have the same level of passion and mentality as Cristiano. Both are supremely talented players, but both do need teams performing for them, more often than not. The balant Messi does not have Cristiano's winning mentality is a lie.
This is a commonly held view but I think it is wrong. He was brilliant for about 10-12 years, for Argentinos Juniors, Boca, Barcelona (though he got seriously injured there and also fell ill) and Napoli. After Napoli it was a pretty fast drop off, but he was really really good for a long time. He was basically already the best player in the world as a teenager.
Also, he’s pretty much the only GOAT candidate who never had a single ‘hall of fame’ teammate whilst he was winning the main trophies in his career.
It is a simple manipulation of goal winning goals stats, by adding the goals behind stats bro, I mean come on, it basically disregards matches like say Bayern 3-0.
Ofcourse Ronaldo's CL stats are impressive, and he is the best CL player of all time after all(I am not taking ancient times of European Cup in regards, to avoid is painstaking Di Stefano debates).
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Sure because you totally watched pele play right?
A large chunk of gis goals came against coast guards and games where he was paraded around the world as he was the first known football star.
In Brazil with Santos his games regularly wound end 8-0 9-0 10-0 11-0 (look it up).
The level of competition was very poor back then as football was still at the beginning stages.
As for his world cups wins he has 3 but he was injured the first game in one so he really only has 2 he played in. In Brazil won without him and Garrincha led led the way.
In Brazil the old heads who actually saw him play unlike you and me don’t even consider him the best Brazilian player of all time.
You formed your opinion on pele because of what you were told without actually doing any research yourself or you would know everything I just said.
Is he the grandfather of football? Yes as he was the first known star.
Would he be top 5 all time ? Yes I believe that is fair.
Is he top 3 all time ?
No shot. Ronaldo Messi and Maradona are far superior players.
*of course In your reply you only said Ronaldo was not better then pele.
You talk about me blindly worshipping Ronaldo but I just praised Messi yet your only point was only Ronaldo was not better then Pele.
Your knowledge of football stems from world to mouth as opposed to actually understanding the game which makes this debate futile.
Messi fan boys who always have to be right.
Also do some more research on pele. Lots of it online. Have a good day.
That aligns with my sentiments on both players in terms of clutch/against all odds moment. Messi is probably best football talent/player, but Ronaldo is true definition of clutch/against all odds/greatness in football.
That I don't agree, he was probably the best during his Napoli days, but not before that.
Possibly.
As I said I have Pele top 5 but many who saw both them play had Garrincha above him.
My point is Pele is not better then Messi Ronaldo or Maradona when you consider the level of football played back then and now as well as raw talent.
Ya so ar age 34-36 of this career.
A majority of his career including his prime was played with the likes of Postiga, Raul Meireles. Silvestre Varela, Hugo Almeida, Tiago, Miguel Veloso, and so on.
When you talk about the top defenders in the game. Which did Pele play against?Just wanted to laugh at this
Have you seen the scores or his games in Brazil with Santos?
8-0 10-0 12-0
Are we serious right now? Is this what you wanted to laugh at cause this is what I’m laughing at.
How about a large amount of his goals coming from exhibition games around the world?
His era had more attacking talent then defending but football was still at its premature stage hence the “nothing era” comment.
You can not compare the level of football Pele played against to that of which Messi , Ronaldo, and Maradona played against.
Fat Ronaldo arguably can be considered the best Brazilian of all time so how can pele be better then the other 3?
As I said…. Grandfather of football? Yes he was the first global star of the sport.
Better then the top 3 best player of all time? Not a chance.
He was unbelievable, I’ve watched dozens of his games for Boca and Barca, and a few for Argentinos juniors as well.
Your ignorance is not endearing. Again. Please research his career properly. He played against all the best defenders of the time including Moore, Beckenbauer etc.
Wow.
Neymar and Lewa can’t even tie Ronaldo’s cleats let alone be mentioned in the same breath as him especially a prime Cristiano.
The reason these debates are beyond stupid is because where as Ronaldo fans can give Messi the respect he earned Messi fans downplay Ronaldo as some regular old player. That alone makes this whole debate pointless.
It’s always funny when that happens considering Ronaldo and Messi have been battling out their whole careers and people love to come here and debate it but then at the same time Ronaldo is worse then Neymar.
Feck me.
If you put Neymar in the 3 peat Madrid team and take out Ronaldo they would be lucky to win one let alone 3.
I've seen some, not a lot, whilst it makes for great highlight videos, I don't think you can claim he's anywhere near being best in the world when he wasn't even dominating the Argie league.
I don't think they're amongst the best defenders of all time, but that's an argument for another thread.
Ahh yes he did that in the fantastic Brazilian league.
Go check the scores in the games he played in agains.
I’ve done my research. Hence my opinion.
Nah Garrincha was seen as an enigma, but better player than Pele? it was never a universal thing, even during Pele's time.
Pele broke into the scene as a 15 year in Santos, Santos was a small club before his time, and he was instrumental in making them a world power during those eras(ofcourse his team was a world class team, basically the Barcelona of their time).
And Pele in raw talent is up there with the best, maybe only Messi is better, but Pele just like Cristiano was a world class header and two footed, while being a great top 10 all time level dribbler and playmaker(something he does not get credited much). I have no doubt with today's training, he might have been the ideal replacement for Messi in Barcelona.
Ofcourse I understand if you do not consider him due to him playing in bygone era, but let us disregard his greatness, as far as GOAT is considered, it should be based on different factors according to the eras. And either by achievements, performances, talent and impact on the game, Pele is up there.
You do realize that Brazil kept all of their top players in Brazil during those eras.
Brazilian team won 3 of the 4 world cup during Pele era, and all of their top players played in Brazil. So obviously Pele was not playing in a weak league.
I mean it is like posting Messi and Cristiano's goals against in their La Liga 40-50 goals season, and concluding La LIga was crap.
They barely make top 4 with Ronaldo
I agree as I said he is the grandfather of the game and I would easily put him top 5 which is no Shame to be behind the other 3.
It was a too heavy league. You can not honestly say the league was competitive when you see the scores of those games.
The talent pool was high offensively but not defensively. It was Americans football scores in those games.
That leads to another point that Brazil would of won those world cups with or without Pele.
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