Do you think Hazard is one of the greatest players of this generation?
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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This sort of depends on your definition of greatest doesn't it? I mean top 10? Probably not.
I'd say most people would have Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez, lewandowski, neymar, robben, Salah, Dr bruyne, bale, griezmann ahead of hazard. And that's just attackers, he'd probably scrape into top 15 attackers of his generation but ribery, benzema, cavani, ibrahimovic would all be in there as well (ibra only so low because the first part of his career would probably be the generation before hazard)
Some of those people you’ve listed are more successful or accomplished but not actually better players than him
Well I mean yes he's talented, but I think when people look at how good a player was, flopping as badly as he has at real Madrid after a 130m move is really going to count against you. I mean I'd say most of the ones I listed in top 10 are better players as well, bales 2012/13 and suarez' 13/14 easily eclipse any of his premier League seasons.
Consistency is a factor in who's a better player as well, in fact it's probably the biggest factor, we know what hazard is capable of but if he only shows it every 3 games or so it's not enough
Fair enough
It took Ronaldo 4 games to get a goal at Juventus, when he was out of his comfort zone
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The goat has no time for sheep.
He looks so good in that kit
Shame the kit itself looks like a discarded QBert level.
I know, I know. Bayern's kit against Barca was also horrible.
Wait,why are Messi fans bleating outside Ronaldo's mansion?
Not surprised that he has CR7 in the top 5, that was not the issue like you are trying to paint it to be mine.
My issue is that he has CR7 (or for that matter Messi and Maradona) above Pele, when in actual fact Pele achieved more than any of those 3. His reasons and caveats of “playing in an inferior league” which isn’t true, or “his brazil team can win the 3 WCs without him” is just imaginary talk.
Looking at why he favors CR7 over Messi, the so call “clutches”, “better international record” erc, based on this why will not Pele be the best in terms of achievement. If a Portugese player achieves 3 world cup victories in the 60s, do you not think he will have this Portugese Pele in number 1?
You and him said Figo and Eusebio, my question to you and him is, have either 1 of them won 3 world cups? Not even an apple to apple comparison and nothing more than a strawman. If Eusebio won 3 World Cups, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will be number 1 GOAT in your friend’s mind
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Figo is Portugese and he did not win a single world cup and not in the conversion for the top 20 GOAT list. Of course not even you will be biased enough to place him in a top 10. If a Portugese Pele won 3 world cups in the 60s, being the star of the team (not a passenger) for 2 of them, you will still not regard him as the GOAT? Stop lying to yourself.
The rest of your post is stupid. Are you Doctor Strange or something that you can witness in an alternate reality that Brazil can win 3 WCs without Pele.
Lastly, the bolded part is your opinion, don’t paint it as a fact. Pele should absolutely be in the top 3 GOATs based on his achievements, in fact he has the best argument to be the number 1 GOAT.
I don't think it's got anything to do with him being Portuguese tbh. I think you'd be surprised how many people would have Ronaldo over Pele, rightly or wrongly. It's really not that outlandish an opinion to hold. Anyway, I think we've probably reached the end of this discussion's usefulness now. You don't rate Ronaldo as highly as some others do and that's fair enough. It would be a dull world if we all agreed on everything.
It's always hard to compare players across eras. I think in terms of individual brilliance and career it's hard not to have Pelé as the goat yet the standards of football has evolved a lot since then so it's hard not have recency bias.
Agreed on all points here. I think comparisons across eras are near enough pointless, much of the time. It's often apples and oranges.
Well considering the fact that they won 1/3 without him, and in the first world cup win Didi was the player of the tournament for Brazil while the second in 1962 pele didn't play as he got injured and garrincha carried Brazil.
1970 he had more of an impact but jarzinho was the top scorer for that team as well in what was a very stacked Brazil team,
So yes based on those facts its pretty safe to say they most likely win those same 3 world cups without him. Its not like he was by far the standout player in any of those worn cup win bar 1970 where he was the best player.
But sure carry on. Like I said top 3 is already decided. Pele and Fat Ronaldo finish up 4-5. Your choice who to put in front of who but fat Ronaldo has a pretty strong case.
No shame in being top 5 all time. Thats a HUGE compliment given the players on the top 5 list.
Ok so why don't I have Eusebio in my top 5 either since I'm Portuguese? your point is fecking stupid. Also im sure many would argue Figo is a top 20 player. probably placed 15-20 around their.
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Your question was "greatest player" and every single one of those guys are easily greater players. You can probably put in a few more to be fair.
Even if question is most talented a lot of those guys are more talented then him.
Which ones?
Brazil might not have won the 1958 world cup, had Pele not scored the lone goal against Wales, so were a solid defensive unit, which Brazil was finding hard to break.
The 1958 semi-final and final are available in full to watch at the touch of a button. I suggest you watch them to stop sounding ignorant. The Brazil team that year was struggling until Pele came into the team and he scored the only goal in the win over Wales (a brilliant goal).
Exactly
Yep, you definitely have some sort of issue. I'm just speaking plain sense, man, no one is pretending anything. You offer me CR7 to come to my club (whatever club it is that can afford him), I'd be all for it, but for one season at the most, not when Haaland or Mbappe are available next summer. It's not because CR7 is not a good player, but he's old, and if he refuses to join for just a one year contract, or even a 1+1, then I would let him go, and I assume that's what City ended up doing and I'm pretty damn sure that's what PSG told his representatives. Just because you don't care about the costs doesn't mean you want to be tied down on massive wages for a player that may not be even close to worth it in a season.
Fairy tales. Get a grip.
It shouldn't be the GOAT, it should be the GOOT, but that's not as catchy.
Nah he's done. Wasnt even sweating when he came off, there for the €€€.
Only 1 GOAT and he's wearing red.
Only 1 GOAT and he's wearing red.
Is this even a debate anymore?
I don‘t think present performances will decide the GOAT debate nor are they really relevant since both are miles off their peak and at the end of their careers.
I love Ronaldo but to be absolutely honest, in my opinion Messi could have retired in 2015 and would still be the undisputed GOAT
I love Ronaldo but to be absolutely honest, in my opinion Messi could have retired in 2015 and would still be the undisputed GOAT
I'm sure that's what most Messi fans want as well, but Ronaldo won a major international title the next year and ghosted him. When those two are neck in neck almost every year, you can't just retire and say yep, can't top that. It's not like he single handedly won the world cup or something. Longevity matters here and he has 2 years advantage as well.
To be fair to Messi tonight - he didn't score, he didn't set up any goals, he smashed the ball wide of the mark a couple of times, he didn't look like he was interested in playing that much, he looks like a twat, he probably is a twat.
Obligatory photo of Messi hearing that Ronaldo has already scored at least a goal per game on his United return.
Obligatory photo of Messi hearing that Ronaldo has already scored at least a goal per game on his United return.
Nah, messi goat is getting another ballon d’or.
and Messi has left ronaldo in the dust 2019 onward
I think I've said somewhere else that this summer has been a PR war now the football arguments for each have been set. And Ronaldo is crushing it. Signing for PSG and this type of behaviour makes a massive dent in the Messi brand. Which I hate saying and makes me sound like a nob, but people remember the final years often much more than players peaks.
messi refusing to take a pay cut to stay at Barca the team that gave him everything also dented his brand. He would’ve still been one of the highest earners in football even with the pay cut But he pussied out and went to PSG who were the only team that would pay him the wages he wants.
What has Ronaldo done in the last 3 years that's of any significance?
Moved to a league to play for a team that's won the league 7 years in a row. Lost the golden boot to the a 36 year old and lost it again the season after. Poor Champions league performances by his standard. Knocked out in the champions league 3 years in a row to "farmers league" teams (Ajax, Lyon, Porto).
A couple of tap ins against Newcastle and West Ham isn't going to suddenly swing peoples view.
I thought my post was quite clearly not about footballing achievements but how people are going to view Messi and Ronaldo post-retirement. Ronaldo's prodigal son returns angle is going to put him way more favourably in people's minds than being a diva and trying to bankrupt a club (and even if that's not true, it's quite a common thought out there).
Going to PSG was a dumb move anyway.
Either he did really well and people would be like "yeah, but he is playing in an inferior league" or he flops and people will compare it to the Ronaldo move back to the premier league and in this case, it seems like Ronaldo will look a lot better in this picture.
He barely started playing for PSG and he already looks like he just wants to run away from there as fast as possible
Either he did really well and people would be like "yeah, but he is playing in an inferior league" or he flops and people will compare it to the Ronaldo move back to the premier league and in this case, it seems like Ronaldo will look a lot better in this picture.
He barely started playing for PSG and he already looks like he just wants to run away from there as fast as possible
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This isn't Tennis. It's called "Juve got KOed in CL" not "Ronaldo got KOed in CL". Ronaldo did well in CL games with Juve and scored a lot of goals.
In the season they got KOed by Ajax in QF, Ronaldo scored all their goals in KO stages, a hattrick vs Atletico and both Juve goals against Ajax home and away. What more should he do ?
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