Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


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Gehrman

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Jose was just fired from Spurs after celebrating them getting a Europa League spot right?
Mou is one greatest managers ever
 

Swoobs

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You brought up the modern status of Valverde so fair is fair
How long ago did Valverde left Barca (in 2020) compared to Mou leaving Real? To be fair huh? Just ask any Real fans if they prefer that Mou or they prefer Barca’s Valverde.

Truthfully, to compare that Mou to any iteration of Valverde is pretty much scrapping the bottom the the barrel. Not worth my time
 

cyberman

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How long ago did Valverde left Barca (in 2020) compared to Mou leaving Real? To be fair huh? Just ask any Real fans if they prefer that Mou or they prefer Barca’s Valverde.

Truthful, to compare that Mou to any iteration of Valverde is pretty much scrapping the bottom the the barrel. Not worth my time
Madrid fans hated Jose what even is this?!
Youre stretching an already weak point imo.
I’m sure Barca fans are looking back at 2 league tiles and a cup win in 3 seasons with great anger right now!
 

genardk

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SAF, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Allegri, Zidane are easily among the top 5-10 managers in the last 10-20 years, and the first three are among the greatest ever. Out of all the managers Messi played under, only Guardiola would make it to that list. Even 2nd tier coaches that Ronaldo played under are better than Messi's managers (excluding Guardiola) such as Sarri, Pellegrini etc. This is a huge difference as we know how much managers matter in this game.

Also, I have never understood why Barca never invested in quality managers, a guy like Klopp with Messi would do wonders in any competition and I do not think he would say no to Barca if aproached.
 
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Pickle85

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SAF, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Allegri, Zidane are easily among the top 5-10 managers in the last 10-20 years, and the first three are among the greatest ever. Out of all the managers Messi played under, only Guardiola would make it to that list. Even 2nd tier coaches that Ronaldo played under are better than Messi's managers (excluding Guardiola) such as Sarri, Pellegrini etc. This is a huge difference as we know how much managers matter in this game.

Also, I have never understood why Barca never invested in quality managers, a guy like Klopp with Messi would do wonders in any competition and I do not think he would say no to Barca if aproached.
What is Allegri doing in this conversation?
 

KirkDuyt

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I like how they turned the tables this season and now try to out average each other.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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I like how they turned the tables this season and now try to out average each other.
Football is moving on, they’re still good but only their reputation and name keeps them in the conversation as best players in the world.
 

genardk

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What is Allegri doing in this conversation?
I would put him my top-10 in the last 20 years with 6 Serie A & 5 Italian Cup wins. Having two final appearances in the CL in an era where you have very powerful Spanish teams such as Barca, Real, Atletico (unlike now) in addition to strong PL teams plus Bayern is in my view very impressive but he obviously could not avoid the standard Juve fate in CL finals like many others. Still, he comes right after Ancelotti in terms of CL success in the last 20 years as an Italian coach. Conte/Mancini for example did not do well in CL (Lippi was not active during most of the last 20 years).

In addition to the 5 names mentioned in my previous post, I would add Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel, Heynckes and Mancini. But, yeah, I agree Allegri's top 10 case may not be as clear-cut as other managers in the list as other people might prefer Wenger, Van Gaal, Conte, Flick, Simeone etc. over him.
 

Gehrman

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Football is moving on, they’re still good but only their reputation and name keeps them in the conversation as best players in the world.
They were both topscorers in their leagues last season. But yeah there are better players this season. Salah, Benzema' Mpabbe etc.
 

Wolf1992

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I would put him my top-10 in the last 20 years with 6 Serie A & 5 Italian Cup wins. Having two final appearances in the CL in an era where you have very powerful Spanish teams such as Barca, Real, Atletico (unlike now) in addition to strong PL teams plus Bayern is in my view very impressive but he obviously could not avoid the standard Juve fate in CL finals like many others. Still, he comes right after Ancelotti in terms of CL success in the last 20 years as an Italian coach. Conte/Mancini for example did not do well in CL (Lippi was not active during most of the last 20 years).

In addition to the 5 names mentioned in my previous post, I would add Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel, Heynckes and Mancini. But, yeah, I agree Allegri's top 10 case may not be as clear-cut as other managers in the list as other people might prefer Wenger, Van Gaal, Conte, Flick, Simeone etc. over him.
Allegri is a top manager, thing is he will get overlooked due to the current status of Serie A, he would get more valued in the 90s or 2000s.
 

Pickle85

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I would put him my top-10 in the last 20 years with 6 Serie A & 5 Italian Cup wins. Having two final appearances in the CL in an era where you have very powerful Spanish teams such as Barca, Real, Atletico (unlike now) in addition to strong PL teams plus Bayern is in my view very impressive but he obviously could not avoid the standard Juve fate in CL finals like many others. Still, he comes right after Ancelotti in terms of CL success in the last 20 years as an Italian coach. Conte/Mancini for example did not do well in CL (Lippi was not active during most of the last 20 years).

In addition to the 5 names mentioned in my previous post, I would add Klopp, Guardiola, Tuchel, Heynckes and Mancini. But, yeah, I agree Allegri's top 10 case may not be as clear-cut as other managers in the list as other people might prefer Wenger, Van Gaal, Conte, Flick, Simeone etc. over him.
Fair enough, I can see that.
 

Rojow

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That's the main difference. It's annoying, specially if he plays in your team. No goal, practically no contribution at all.
 

Cascarino

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Merry X'mas everyone

Yet again the Messi brigade never ceases to amaze.

We are discussing the greatest footballer of all time, not the greatest playmaker, passer, creator, dribbler, as far as I'm aware they both play football. :lol:

That wasn't the case with Messi with the likes of Zlatan, Villa, Henry all driven to play out wide because he wanted to the the center of attention for goal scoring?

So showhow it's tougher to play with WC team mates? :lol: and you go on to blame said WC team mates for missing all those chances he created?

They won a couple of Serie A only due to him, of course he brought success with Juve. If Juve fans don't like him due to the circumstances of his leaving, that has little to do with his ability on the pitch.

Again with the MVP awards and the Messi brigade, you lot would probably want football to be judged by judges like gymnastic or diving, perfect 10s for dribbling and all that, who cares about scoring. :lol:
You surely know better than Juve fans:lol:

How can you be a GOAT when your skill set does not go beyond poaching, goal scoring :lol: ?

How can you be a GOAT when Messi easily matches you in terms of your biggest strength area, goal scoring?

How can you be a GOAT when compared with the complete package, Messi, who is still gonna be considered one of the greatest ever even without goal scoring due to his amazing playmaking & dribbling skills? Where would Ronaldo be without his goals? Probably in the reserve team :lol:

How can you be a GOAT when you give little joy to watch as you lack creativity whereas the other is one of the most exciting players ever? Even Zidane, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Platini, R9 etc. are much more fun to watch than Ronaldo (excluding his early United years). Probably the least fun to watch player in the GOAT conversation, can count 10s of other players who are much more exciting to watch..

How can you be a GOAT when Messi surpassed you in Ballon D'ors (7>5), Golden Shoe (6>4), iffhs best playmaker award (4>0), Pichichi (5>3 in 9 years), La Liga best player award (6>1), international tournament MVP (4>0)?

I bet people who think Ronaldo is the GOAT are mostly Portuguese fans and some United fans. Most Juve fans definitely think he is no more than a great poacher, definitely not GOAT material just like Gerd Muller and even most United fans think Messi is better than Ronaldo looking at the poll. Can you imagine Ronaldo leading in a Barca forum :lol: :lol:?
The circumstances of his departure from Juve has nothing to do with this discussion.

Apparently the player with the most assists in CL history's skill set does not go beyond goalscoring. :lol:

Other than the fact that Messi comes nowhere near matching Ronaldo's goalscoring in the biggest competition they both play in... :rolleyes:

You're entitled to your opinion, Messi will not be considered anywhere neat a GOAT if his scoring record is similar to Iniesta.

Again, a matter of opinion, not everyone thinks tiki taka is the only way football is supposed to be played.

Ronaldo got more votes in Ballon D'ors than Messi in more years than vice versa. FACT

This poll? Everyone knows it was rigged. :lol: Only you Messi brigade pretend not to realize
Lads, save some laughing smileys for the rest of the forum users yeah?
 

Wolf1992

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Ronaldo is complaining all the time about his teammates at United missing passes and such, and getting mad when things don't go well, he could have been sent off yesterday had his name not been Ronaldo.

He knew where he was going, too late to complain and get mad, should have never left Real Madrid then, he would have one more CL in his trophy cabinet and probably one more Balloon D'or as well.
There is a massive difference between playing with Kroos,Ramos,Modric,Bale,Benzema,Marcelo,etc and then playing with Wan Bissaka,Fred,McTominay,Maguire,Rashford and Telles...but he knew where he was going, he really can't complain.
 

genardk

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Ronaldo is complaining all the time about his teammates at United missing passes and such, and getting mad when things don't go well, he could have been sent off yesterday had his name not been Ronaldo.

He knew where he was going, too late to complain and get mad, should have never left Real Madrid then, he would have one more CL in his trophy cabinet and probably one more Balloon D'or as well.
There is a massive difference between playing with Kroos,Ramos,Modric,Bale,Benzema,Marcelo,etc and then playing with Wan Bissaka,Fred,McTominay,Maguire,Rashford and Telles...but he knew where he was going, he really can't complain.
I think Ronaldo thought it would be a great upgrade leaving Juve for United with all the problems Juve is facing at that moment and failures. Coming to United which just finished PL the second and the team assembled with the arrivals of Sancho, Varane must have looked very appealing. He must have been shocked at the level of team performance just like United fans. Now of course, we can discuss how much blame he should receive for this poor performance. Regardless, I do not think he knew where he was going as on the surface everything looked pretty positive for United at the beginning of the season, definitely a better option than staying at Juve for him personally. I remember there was a specific thread here on what United fans should expect this year in terms of performance, almost everyone was expecting a proper title challenge along with success in the CL. He must have had similar expectations earlier, it seems to be a very frustrating experience for him so far despite his heroics at CL and fans seem to be divided in terms of his contribution to the team.

I fully agree that he should have never left Real, I am sure he regrets that decision and will probably continue to do so for the rest of his life.
 
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Gehrman

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3 goals in his last 12 PL games now. 2 of them were pens. And unlike Messi, when he doesn’t score, he brings nothing else to the table re creativity.
He's almost 37 to be fair. But yeah like against Norwich(worst team in the league) he can be abysmal and then score a pen and the headlines will be about how he won another game. This is why I thought bringing in Ronaldo would be a double edged sword. I''m not convinced he makes the team better because his legacy and salary demands that he's a starter, but he would be better as an impact sub.
 

Swoobs

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SAF, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Allegri, Zidane are easily among the top 5-10 managers in the last 10-20 years, and the first three are among the greatest ever. Out of all the managers Messi played under, only Guardiola would make it to that list. Even 2nd tier coaches that Ronaldo played under are better than Messi's managers (excluding Guardiola) such as Sarri, Pellegrini etc. This is a huge difference as we know how much managers matter in this game.

Also, I have never understood why Barca never invested in quality managers, a guy like Klopp with Messi would do wonders in any competition and I do not think he would say no to Barca if aproached.
Dude, you missed out Valverde who according to some people here, was better than Madrid’s Mourinho and Zidane (since he was a nothing before CR7). No idea why they think that way but whatever floats their boat.

That aside, I also think that Enrique was better than Sarri.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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All the Ronaldo fans were rushing to blame Solskjaer for Ronaldo arriving at a team and going from 2nd to mid-table and it being everyone else's fault but his. Then an 'ultra modern' manager arrives and all the games pretty much look like Ole's games so far. Hmm I wonder who the common denominator is? As shared in the other thread, this was an interesting comment from Buffon about what Ronaldo does to teams and we're seeing it now. He's an intimidating figure and not conducive to a team game anymore. It's a point worth considering against him in greatest ever debates.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/juventu...-juventus-lost-team-dna-after-players-arrival
 

Gehrman

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All the Ronaldo fans were rushing to blame Solskjaer for Ronaldo arriving at a team and going from 2nd to mid-table and it being everyone else's fault but his. Then an 'ultra modern' manager arrives and all the games pretty much look like Ole's games so far. Hmm I wonder who the common denominator is? As shared in the other thread, this was an interesting comment from Buffon about what Ronaldo does to teams and we're seeing it now. He's an intimidating figure and not conducive to a team game anymore. It's a point worth considering against him in greatest ever debates.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/juventu...-juventus-lost-team-dna-after-players-arrival
Ronaldo at this age definitely comes with some problems, but I can't blame him for Maguire, Sancho, Rashford etc. being shit. Essentially I can only judge him by his own performance.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Ronaldo at this age definitely comes with some problems, but I can't blame him for Maguire, Sancho, Rashford etc. being shit. Essentially I can only judge him by his own performance.
I see what you mean but it's also a team game though and such a dominant figure, an all-time great, has to also take some responsibility (definitely not all, they're all senior players too) when his team-mates are unable to play in a functional way with him. The team is in Ronaldo's image, he gets all the praise when the team loses, so he also has to bear the criticism when the team is so bad as the team's figurehead.

If we were winning the league now, everyone would be rushing to say 'this proves Ronaldo is the GOAT' even if his performances were the exact same (see the narrative around his relatively average Euro 2016), instead the exact opposite has happened, we're playing as badly as we've been since Moyes.
 

Gehrman

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I see what you mean but it's also a team game though and such a dominant figure, an all-time great, has to also take some responsibility (definitely not all, they're all senior players too) when his team-mates are unable to play in a functional way with him. The team is in Ronaldo's image, he gets all the praise when the team loses, so he also has to bear the criticism when the team is so bad as the team's figurehead.

If we were winning the league now, everyone would be rushing to say 'this proves Ronaldo is the GOAT' even if his performances were the exact same (see the narrative around his relatively average Euro 2016), instead the exact opposite has happened, we're playing as badly as we've been since Moyes.
I agree to a certain extent, but I still can't blame him for the abysmal performance of the other players. Ronaldo was wank yesterday, so I can blame him for that. Simplistic narratives are often shit tbh. Whether it's "PSG put 4 goals past Messi" or in this season''s case "Liverpool put 5 past Ronaldo". That's not how football works.
 

Idxomer

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Ronaldo is complaining all the time about his teammates at United missing passes and such, and getting mad when things don't go well, he could have been sent off yesterday had his name not been Ronaldo.

He knew where he was going, too late to complain and get mad, should have never left Real Madrid then, he would have one more CL in his trophy cabinet and probably one more Balloon D'or as well.
There is a massive difference between playing with Kroos,Ramos,Modric,Bale,Benzema,Marcelo,etc and then playing with Wan Bissaka,Fred,McTominay,Maguire,Rashford and Telles...but he knew where he was going, he really can't complain.
I don't think he would've won another CL if he had stayed.

Madrid actually made a great decision by not clinging on to him when he wanted more money. Benzema is a better foil for young players than Ronaldo, see his chemistry with Vinicius and Mbappe.
 

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How can you be a GOAT when you give little joy to watch as you lack creativity whereas the other is one of the most exciting players ever? Even Zidane, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Platini, R9 etc. are much more fun to watch than Ronaldo (excluding his early United years). Probably the least fun to watch player in the GOAT conversation, can count 10s of other players who are much more exciting to watch..
I like the argument "even ... Ronaldinho & R9 are much more fun to watch" like, well, those are not the most entertaining footballers ever (in terms of pure entertainment, not necessarily in terms of quality, I'd put them even ahead of Messi, just below Maradona).
 

Gehrman

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Are we now at the point where Ronaldo and Messi are making their teams worse or is it too early to call?
 

Lord SInister

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Are we now at the point where Ronaldo and Messi are making their teams worse or is it too early to call?
Depends on how the teams are set up. If the team is set up for team work, than yes, Messi and Cristiano have reached a stage where they don't contribute anything at all in defensive phase of the game. If the team are set up at maximizing their influence, than no, they are doing fine.
 

Gehrman

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Depends on how the teams are set up. If the team is set up for team work, than yes, Messi and Cristiano have reached a stage where they don't contribute anything at all in defensive phase of the game. If the team are set up at maximizing their influence, than no, they are doing fine.
Yeah I can remember Klopp saying that unless you are Messi or Ronaldo you have to defend. But now they are both past their prime. Anyway either player might pick up form. PSG are bad considering their squad and United are well terrible despite us having high hopes for the season earlier on. Either player might shine in the CL and take their team far. Anything can happen in a knockout competition despite that there are better teams atm.
 
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