Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[The holy trinity 68]

He is 37 and playing in the best league in the world.

He isnt Ronaldo level anymore but he is Lukaku level of beating the lower ability teams.

Messi should be doing better in Ligue 1. He has the ability just a few months ago to ruin the La Liga and win Copa amerida and the first club team and league outside the league he destroyed with his eyes closed he struggles even if ifs one of the easiest in top professional football.

There is ultimately no proof what soever that Messi is not just a Forlan who did well in La Liga but not in the PL because its pure guess work.

Now I will never say that Messi would fail in another league - because he is a wonderful player.

But the thing that I will always say is that I can't and won't believe that Messi will be performing GOAT level performances outside of a team like Barcelona or a League like La liga.

He would still be a fantastic player and a legendary player - but him being the GOAT of all time? Not for me.

If he spend his full career at United - I would never say that Messi would flop and be useless. But I do not believe he would be good as he was for Barcelona but for United.

With Ronaldo I believe he can be good as he was for United at Real Madrid. As good as he was for Real Madrid as he was for United. As good as he was scoring goals for Portugal as he was for Juventus even if he was less successful.

But Messi is also not young anymore, but that excuse is fine for Ronaldo? But the fact that Messi has more goals against the best teams in the PL than Ronaldo while not even ever playing in the PL basically answers your question.

Fair enough not having messing as the Greatest Of All Time, then fair enough but it is sure as hell not Ronaldo if that is the case. The Ronaldo fanatic's always move the goal posts to suit their agenda, no matter who they are it is always the same. For example they were all using the excuse that Ronaldo is better because he has done it on the International stage, but then as soon as Messi wins an International tournament with Argentina, the goal posts are shifted again.

 

[El Jefe]

Ronaldo is objectively better than Messi currently and this is Ronaldo's poorest season by far. Messi has been an undeniable FLOP for PSG this season. To deny this means you're delusional and you lost all credibility.

The real discussion to be had is on the career level, is Messi still widely seen as the GOAT? Will his flop for PSG stain his legacy and will Ronaldo be considered better over the course of their careers. IDK

Debating who is better overall or who has been better this season is fine, albeit pointless but anyone using this season as confirmation of why one is better than the other is pretty dim.

Messi can barely run nowadays, its not like he moved to PSG at his peak and underperformed. Both of them are playing as bad as we've ever seen them so I don't see the need to turn this season into a tie breaker for some.

Ronaldo has clearly been better or maybe I should say less underwhelming. Ronaldo vs Messi at the moment is like an exhibition match of two over the hill legends.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

The idea of ‘staining a legacy’ at age 34 after 1,000 games is amazing logic, the body of work is there and there in abundance, as much or more than any player in history, no matter what Messi does at this point. The only thing left that Messi or Ronaldo could do that would change their impression is win the World Cup. Nobody will remember these seasons in 20 years. Does anyone talk about Brazilian Ronaldo’s AC Milan season? Or Maradona at Sevilla? Never see them ever mentioned when judging who is the greatest.

 

[Withnail]

Not the only metric, of course, but I always thought the age difference would see Messi fly past Ronaldo on the goal scoring charts. He's still scored a similar amount in a lot less games but Ronaldo's such a freak it's hard to see Messi catching him at all.

 

[Gehrman]

The idea of ‘staining a legacy’ at age 34 after 1,000 games is amazing logic, the body of work is there and there in abundance, as much or more than any player in history, no matter what Messi does at this point. The only thing left that Messi or Ronaldo could do that would change their impression is win the World Cup. Nobody will remember these seasons in 20 years. Does anyone talk about Brazilian Ronaldo’s AC Milan season? Or Maradona at Sevilla? Never see them ever mentioned when judging who is the greatest.

Pretty much this. They have 12 ballon d'ors between them and the idea that they have to prove themselves in the retirement age for most footballers is absurd. They have won as many individual and team accolades as you can.

 

[Withnail]

you are absolutely tragic

You know which thread you're in, don't you?

 

[cyberman]

Debating who is better overall or who has been better this season is fine, albeit pointless but anyone using this season as confirmation of why one is better than the other is pretty dim.

Messi can barely run nowadays, its not like he moved to PSG at his peak and underperformed. Both of them are playing as bad as we've ever seen them so I don't see the need to turn this season into a tie breaker for some.

Ronaldo has clearly been better or maybe I should say less underwhelming. Ronaldo vs Messi at the moment is like an exhibition match of two over the hill legends.

Not that over the hill, he’s 5 goals behind Salah and Mbappe in league goals. I honestly believe if Messi was closing in on 25 goals for the season there would be a lot less talk of both being over the hill as there is now. Messis sub par season is bringing Ronaldo down in this and it doesn’t seem fair

 

[Bebestation]

But Messi is also not young anymore, but that excuse is fine for Ronaldo? But the fact that Messi has more goals against the best teams in the PL than Ronaldo while not even ever playing in the PL basically answers your question.

Fair enough not having messing as the Greatest Of All Time, then fair enough but it is sure as hell not Ronaldo if that is the case. The Ronaldo fanatic's always move the goal posts to suit their agenda, no matter who they are it is always the same. For example they were all using the excuse that Ronaldo is better because he has done it on the International stage, but then as soon as Messi wins an International tournament with Argentina, the goal posts are shifted again.

Messi is 34. Ronaldo is 37. There is a difference there.

Messi is in League 1. Ronaldo is in PL. There is a difference There.

Messi won the Balon Dor literally a couple of months ago and helped Argentina win a copa America. Alot of people was raving how he was the best in the world just for the appearance a couple months ago.

Why did he age almost the first instant he moved to a different team? He didn't even slowly age - he showed no sign of ability to play like he did in Spain to a different league.

 

[El Jefe]

Not that over the hill, he’s 5 goals behind Salah and Mbappe in league goals. I honestly believe if Messi was closing in on 25 goals for the season there would be a lot less talk of both being over the hill as there is now. Messis sub par season is bringing Ronaldo down in this and it doesn’t seem fair

Ronaldo's scoring numbers can paint an illusion of him not being over the hill. He's only scored in a third of his PL matches and whenever he's not scored he's been pretty useless. Kane was pretty much redundant for half the season and he's still scored in more games than Ronaldo has.

Ronaldo's good performances have been loud but more often than not in the league he has underperformed. He was consistently great in the CL group stages though but he's never had that impact in the PL this season.

 

[Bebestation]

Ronaldo's scoring numbers can paint an illusion of him not being over the hill. He's only scored in a third of his PL matches and whenever he's not scored he's been pretty useless. Kane was pretty much redundant for half the season and he's still scored in more games than Ronaldo has.

Ronaldo's good performances have been loud but more often than not in the league he has underperformed. He was consistently great in the CL group stages though but he's never had that impact in the PL this season.

Whilst i agree - Ronaldo is playing for the 6th best team in the PL. Whether that's his fault or not is a different story.

Messi is playing for the number 1 team in Ligue 1 and still 6 of all his assist range has come from St Ettiene and Clermont-Foot. Teams that PSG won 6-1 against etc.

 

[cyberman]

Ronaldo's scoring numbers can paint an illusion of him not being over the hill. He's only scored in a third of his PL matches and whenever he's not scored he's been pretty useless. Kane was pretty much redundant for half the season and he's still scored in more games than Ronaldo has.

Ronaldo's good performances have been loud but more often than not in the league he has underperformed. He was consistently great in the CL group stages though but he's never had that impact in the PL this season.

But that’s the same with all top scorers. They rarely go a goal a game. Hell he has nearly a quarter of his career goals in 60 games.
Your post proves my point, all of a sudden we are over analysing his record just to find a fault.
Look at Salah, he has 5 goals more and hasn’t scored in his last 8 league games. Forwards score in bunches, , it’s just rare that sides rely on 1 scorer.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

They were all using the excuse that Ronaldo is better because he has done it on the International stage, but then as soon as Messi wins an International tournament with Argentina, the goal posts are shifted again.

I think the problem is that Messi did not 'soon' win an international tournament, it took him approximately ten thousand years and he accumulated a bunch of absurd failures to get there. That remains a black mark on his resume.

 

[GatoLoco]

I think the problem is that Messi did not 'soon' win an international tournament, it took him approximately ten thousand years and he accumulated a bunch of absurd failures to get there. That remains a black mark on his resume.

Apart from that it's also the fact that Copa America was celebrated in 2015, 2016, 2019 and 2021 in the last years when the Euros take place once every 4 years and the competition having in Argentina the strongest NT traditionally besides Uruguay. At the end of the day the credit the win deserves is very diluted as compared to winning the Euros.

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Whilst i agree - Ronaldo is playing for the 6th best team in the PL. Whether that's his fault or not is a different story.

Messi is playing for the number 1 team in Ligue 1 and still 6 of all his assist range has come from St Ettiene and Clermont-Foot. Teams that PSG won 6-1 against etc.

But 40% of Ronaldo’s goals have come in just two matches, 20% against the worst team in the epl. Again, no doubt Ronaldo has had the better season. However, Messi is just one assist out of the top spot in ligue 1, so while the goal scoring has been bad for him, I find it odd how zero credit is giving for those assists even though like Ronaldo and his goals Messi’s assists have come in a handful of games.

neither player has been consistent at all, hell even Ronaldo went 11 games without scoring this season. He’s only scored in 3 matches in all of 2022 and we are almost in May.

But that’s the same with all top scorers. They rarely go a goal a game. Hell he has nearly a quarter of his career goals in 60 games.
Your post proves my point, all of a sudden we are over analysing his record just to find a fault.
Look at Salah, he has 5 goals more and hasn’t scored in his last 8 league games. Forwards score in bunches, , it’s just rare that sides rely on 1 scorer.

Salah had 16 straight matches with a goal or an assist, yes, he’s come down to earth lately, but he doesn’t have anything as absurd as 40% of his goals from just two matches. He has been far more consistent on a game by game basis than Ronaldo. Ronaldo’s worst matches have also been far worse, far worse than Messi’s as well.

Kane has scored in 6 out of his last 8 matches. Ronaldo has had goals in 3 matches out of his last 13. He just lacks any sort of consistency even though yes he is 37.

 

[genardk]

He is 37 and playing in the best league in the world.

He isnt Ronaldo level anymore but he is Lukaku level of beating the lower ability teams.

Messi should be doing better in Ligue 1. He has the ability just a few months ago to ruin the La Liga and win Copa amerida and the first club team and league outside the league he destroyed with his eyes closed he struggles even if ifs one of the easiest in top professional football.

There is ultimately no proof what soever that Messi is not just a Forlan who did well in La Liga but not in the PL because its pure guess work.

Now I will never say that Messi would fail in another league - because he is a wonderful player.

But the thing that I will always say is that I can't and won't believe that Messi will be performing GOAT level performances outside of a team like Barcelona or a League like La liga.

He would still be a fantastic player and a legendary player - but him being the GOAT of all time? Not for me.

If he spend his full career at United - I would never say that Messi would flop and be useless. But I do not believe he would be good as he was for Barcelona but for United.

With Ronaldo I believe he can be good as he was for United at Real Madrid. As good as he was for Real Madrid as he was for United. As good as he was scoring goals for Portugal as he was for Juventus even if he was less successful.

Ronaldo has played in an inferior Serie A for 3 years, that's why he could win 2 league titles in 3 years, the same number he could win with Real in 9 years, talk about an easy league.. not a single Ballon D'or worthy season, and don't get me started how bad United is doing with him now.

Ronaldo showed he can only win things with super teams, either Real or SAF's United.. The moment he is out of his super team comfort zone, he is exposed big time time and time again. He has GOAT level seasons only at super teams, not at Juve or today's United.. Unlike Messi who won Ballon D'ors, Pichichis, Golden Shoes, IFFHS best playmaker awards, CL top goal scorer, La Liga most assists without being surrounded by star players such as Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar at trash Barca under Koemann/Valverde/Setien..

Talking as if Premier League is the gold standard when La Liga teams dominated Premier League god knows for how long up until a couple of years ago, who cares about PL when you had La Liga up until a couple of years ago winning most titles in Europe by far Ronaldo could win only two titles, a single best player award in 9 years in La Liga.

Below was the terrible state of Premier League teams against La Liga teams for 10 years.. PL dominated by players like Hazard, Silva, Cesc..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ockout-ties-against-La-Liga-counterparts.html

 

[Red the Bear]

Ronaldo has played in an inferior Serie A for 3 years, that's why he could win 2 league titles in 3 years, the same number he could win with Real in 9 years, talk about an easy league.. not a single Ballon D'or worthy season, and don't get me started how bad United is doing with him now.

Talking as if Premier League is the gold standard when La Liga teams dominated Premier League god knows for how long up until a couple of years ago, who cares about PL when you had La Liga up until a couple of years ago winning most titles in Europe by far Ronaldo could win only two titles, a single best player award in 9 years in La Liga.

Below was the terrible state of Premier League teams against La Liga teams for 10 years.. PL dominated by players like Hazard, Silva, Cesc..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ockout-ties-against-La-Liga-counterparts.html

Ronaldo showed he can only win things with super teams, either Real or SAF's United.. The moment he is out of his super team comfort zone, he is exposed big time time and time again. He has GOAT level performances only at super teams, not at Juve or today's United..

For a Juventus fan you really do hate him don't you.
I thought he did ok with you lot, he did bottle the Porto tie, but the other 2 exits wasn't really his fault .(scored twice against both lyon and ajax i think)

 

[Bebestation]

Ronaldo has played in an inferior Serie A for 3 years, that's why he could win 2 league titles in 3 years, the same number he could win with Real in 9 years, talk about an easy league.. not a single Ballon D'or worthy season, and don't get me started how bad United is doing with him now.

Ronaldo showed he can only win things with super teams, either Real or SAF's United.. The moment he is out of his super team comfort zone, he is exposed big time time and time again. He has GOAT level seasons only at super teams, not at Juve or today's United.. Unlike Messi who won Ballon D'ors, Pichichis, Golden Shoes, IFFHS best playmaker awards, CL top goal scorer, La Liga most assists without being surrounded by star players such as Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar at trash Barca under Koemann/Valverde/Setien..

Talking as if Premier League is the gold standard when La Liga teams dominated Premier League god knows for how long up until a couple of years ago, who cares about PL when you had La Liga up until a couple of years ago winning most titles in Europe by far Ronaldo could win only two titles, a single best player award in 9 years in La Liga.

Below was the terrible state of Premier League teams against La Liga teams for 10 years.. PL dominated by players like Hazard, Silva, Cesc..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ockout-ties-against-La-Liga-counterparts.html

Xavi and Iniesta are better than Modric and definitely Kroos. Definitely Scholes and Carrick.


End of tie.

 

[Red the Bear]

Xavi and Iniesta are better than Modric and definitely Kroos. Definitely Scholes and Carrick.


End of tie.

Don't low ball our boys like that

 

[cyberman]

But 40% of Ronaldo’s goals have come in just two matches, 20% against the worst team in the epl. Again, no doubt Ronaldo has had the better season. However, Messi is just one assist out of the top spot in ligue 1, so while the goal scoring has been bad for him, I find it odd how zero credit is giving for those assists even though like Ronaldo and his goals Messi’s assists have come in a handful of games.

neither player has been consistent at all, hell even Ronaldo went 11 games without scoring this season. He’s only scored in 3 matches in all of 2022 and we are almost in May.





Salah had 16 straight matches with a goal or an assist, yes, he’s come down to earth lately, but he doesn’t have anything as absurd as 40% of his goals from just two matches. He has been far more consistent on a game by game basis than Ronaldo. Ronaldo’s worst matches have also been far worse, far worse than Messi’s as well.

Kane has scored in 6 out of his last 8 matches. Ronaldo has had goals in 3 matches out of his last 13. He just lacks any sort of consistency even though yes he is 37.

See. You’ve suddenly added assists in for a reason and we both know why. it’s either streaky or it’s not, Salah is 3 games away from matching Ronaldos 11 games without a goal
Messis worst matches are worse simply because there’s a lot more of them. Ronaldos record holds up against the best strikers in the world as we stand. He may be a level below elite strikers now but it’s nowhere near over the hill.
Only in this thread can 2 games where we needed him to score 3 to win 3-2 be derided as some kind of stat padding. It makes no sense. It’s a goal every 140 minutes for him with just below a goal a game in CL.
it’s all nonsense. Every goal he scores is absolutely vital. I’m struggling to think of one that’s not

 

[SportingCP96]

I think the problem is that Messi did not 'soon' win an international tournament, it took him approximately ten thousand years and he accumulated a bunch of absurd failures to get there. That remains a black mark on his resume.

It’s not even just that, it’s the fact it took him so long When Argentina play in a copa final every other year. It’s a two horse race that he has multiple tried at getting.

You are not getting to the Euro final every other it’s just not happening because it’s a much more difficult competition especially when your country is not traditionally a favorite.

The only team to do it was coincidently Spain who was also the backbone of that Barca team with messi.

The copa does not hold as much weight as a Euro.

 

[SportingCP96]

Ronaldo has played in an inferior Serie A for 3 years, that's why he could win 2 league titles in 3 years, the same number he could win with Real in 9 years, talk about an easy league.. not a single Ballon D'or worthy season, and don't get me started how bad United is doing with him now.

Ronaldo showed he can only win things with super teams, either Real or SAF's United.. The moment he is out of his super team comfort zone, he is exposed big time time and time again. He has GOAT level seasons only at super teams, not at Juve or today's United.. Unlike Messi who won Ballon D'ors, Pichichis, Golden Shoes, IFFHS best playmaker awards, CL top goal scorer, La Liga most assists without being surrounded by star players such as Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar at trash Barca under Koemann/Valverde/Setien..

Talking as if Premier League is the gold standard when La Liga teams dominated Premier League god knows for how long up until a couple of years ago, who cares about PL when you had La Liga up until a couple of years ago winning most titles in Europe by far Ronaldo could win only two titles, a single best player award in 9 years in La Liga.

Below was the terrible state of Premier League teams against La Liga teams for 10 years.. PL dominated by players like Hazard, Silva, Cesc..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...ockout-ties-against-La-Liga-counterparts.html

You just said teams right? Meaning plural?

Meaning more then one? Meaning in MULTIPLE leagues?

So you just agreed he dominated and Balon d or in yeo separate leagues and in two different teams?

While Messi only ever achieved success in….Barcelona….

People always wondered how he would be outside of Barca and well…we have our answer.

Currently he has an outstanding 8 goals for the season not even at double digits and has 3 goals total in the league.

Ronaldo has more match winning goals (10) this season then Messi has total goals (8).

Ronaldo only went to 3 different leagues and cleaned house in all 3. His only smudge was not getting a CL with Juve but the fact he had Ramsey and bentancur as the midfield and Juve refused to build a CL team might have something to do with that.

Even then over 100 goals and multiple records.

You just closed out the debate for us.

Balon D or in two different teams and CL in two different teams.