Ronaldo the past five years has literally been all time. It was a laugh when he was being compared to Messi only five years ago. Absolutely mind boggling what Ronaldo has achieved the last five years
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
Let me break this down for you simply. I know it's late for you;Woah, didn’t know you have to score (dare I say - more!) to win.
Thanks captain obvious. Don’t know where we’d be without you
1) Cal said the point of football is to score goals.
2) Zehner disagreed and said no, the point is scoring more goals than your opponent. You can score and lose, so scoring goals isn't the only factor in winning football games.
3) You think these two statements are the same.
I think what confused you is both sentences had the word score in and you assumed they meant the same thing but unfortunately there are other words you have to read and that can complicate things.
Woah, didn’t know you have to score (dare I say - more!) to win. For some reason I thought he meant scoring LESS to win, appreciate you clearing that up for everyone.Scoring MORE. Not just scoring. Not only can't you write coherent sentences, now you're struggling to read them
Thanks captain obvious. Don’t know where we’d be without you
It really is ridiculous when you think about what he’s accomplished to catch up and take the lead.
The task was virtually impossible and he’s done it and completely changed the narrative.
It’s hilarious watching them twist and turn and tie themselves into a knot trying to argue this.
I noticed someone is arguing with you if scoring implies scoring more or scoring less.
Sir, Xavi and Iniesta combo win Euro 2008, WC 2010, and Euro 2012. That was period when Barca was the King and Messi mostly won his BdO awards.
Without the Combo, plus Busquet, Messi wont even achieve BdO that much. Even when Xavi retired, Messi still had Iniesta. If you swap between CR7 and Messi, Barca would still be a King of Europe as long as the majestic legendary combo of Xavi and Iniesta played.
Messi was never be a leader. Not for Barca or Argentina NT. It was Mascherano in 2014 who plateyed as a leader.
And for 2017/2018 season, Messi could outcome CR7 mostly because CR7 injured.
Yes, Xavi and Iniesta are better than him in this regard and no, he is definitely capable of doing it on his own for Argentina and also for Barcelona. He is the one who drops deep and makes the midfield plays by carrying the ball and it has been like this for years in the national team.First of all, Barca (certainly Xaviesta) are better "at dominating the other team, keeping possession, solving tight situations, creating superiority etc." Messi contributes to that but as we have seen with Argentina, he is incapable of doing that on his own.
Secondly, football is ultimately about scoring more than the opposition, dominating possession etc doesn't really matter one iota without the scoring part. (Unless you're LVG).
I'm the one who's often argued that Messi is the 2nd best footballer ever, yet somehow I'm incapable of giving him credit, whereas the Messi brigade who claim Luiz Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Modric, Bale & co are better or as good as Cristiano are being completely reasonable?
And no, possession alone isn't worth anything but it is the best way to keep your opponent from scoring and exhausting him physically and mentally (which makes scoring youraelf easier). These aspects of Messi's games are discredited completely by you. If a dribbling or a pass doesn't directly lead to a goal, it is pointless in your world.
And finally, you may say that Messi's the second best player in history but you never acknowledge his abilities and utilize evdry occasion for belittling him immediately. If you ask me, you are simply willing to accept everything if it means your idol gets considered the GOAT. See, that's the difference. I idolize Messi because I value his footballing abilities while you value Ronaldo's strengthes because you idolize him.
That's by the way also why Messi supporters value Ronaldo Lima and Ronaldinho so highly. Both these players have unbelievable skillsets that and have much in common with Messi (dribbling, control, passing..). Peak Ronaldo Lima is for me an even better footballer than Messi. That doesn't mean that anyone discredits Cristiano, it is just consequent since they value different aspects of a footballer. Noone will exemplarily argue that they were more consiatent, had better careers or are anywhere near hia mental strength.
Year 1st 2nd
2011 Lionel Messi (2) (Barcelona) Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid)
Percentage 47.88% 21.60%
2012 Lionel Messi (3) (Barcelona) Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid)
Percentage
2011 Lionel Messi (2) (Barcelona) Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid)
Percentage 47.88% 21.60%
2012 Lionel Messi (3) (Barcelona) Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid)
Percentage
He certainly seems capable of doing it in La Liga since the demise of Xaviesta, but seem incapable of it in bigger games in the CL or for Argentina.
Whether possession football is the best way to play football in venturing into the Pep argument, when he has the best collection of players (possibly ever) that are suited to that style (Barca 09-11), it works, but it hasn't worked since, certainly not in the CL knockout ties he keeps losing. If dribbling or a pass doesn't lead to goal it really isn't worth much.
You idolize Messi because you prefer the way he plays, he dribbles down a blind alley then loses the ball and you cream yourself over it, when Ronaldo out jumps NBA players to score headed goals, you're like "so what if he can jump high?"
I prefer Ronaldo because I think he is the most efficient footballer (ever), Messi (to some) is more pleasing on the eye but doesn't have the ruthless efficiency of Ronaldo.
I get the preference for a certain style of play, but I'm certainly not as blinded as those who claim Luiz Ronaldo or Ronaldinho were better than Cristiano. I was a big fan of Van Nistelrooy and he certainly had the record to match most strikers (before these 2), yet I won't make stupid claims like RVN was better than Luiz Ronaldo, which to what I think comparing L Ronaldo to Cristiano is.
And the other way round. Give Messi Kroos and Modric and Marcelo on LB and Barca tears through the competition again.
You don't need to be the greatest leader if you can play football like Messi. Cristiano's no leader for Madrid either, by the way.
Argentina certainly could do with some leadership from somewhere this WC
If just your mere presence on the field dictates exactly how your team is going to be set up to play, tactics, tempo, style etc... then you definitely need to be a leader or it all falls apart.
As we are seeing with this current Argentina squad I suppose.
See, that' a well-reasoned post I can live with. I disagree on many parts but everything you bring up makes some sense. No superficial or lazy arguments, no belittling the strengthes of the other, no double standards and so forth. I simply look more on the abilities of a footballer in my evaluations and don't value the mental aspect as much as you do. That's why I rate players like Messi, Ronaldo Lima, Ronaldinho, Laudrup, Zidane etc. so highly.
Yes, that's true. It always depends on the team and their strengthes. As I said earloer, a team like Poland or England would be much better off with Messi since they already have very good players (albeit not as good as Ronaldo) who can play his role but noone for Messi's position. If Argentina had someone like Ramos they wouldn't need to put Messi at the top of the team's hierarchy although this doesn't suit his character. So it always depends who would help a team more.
I don't agree. You need to take responsibility on the field and Messi does this. That's why he drops so deep if he feels he needs to help out the midfield, that's why he dribbles so much aeound the halfway line etc.
But leadership in terms of man managing, waking up your tea mates etc., I think these things can be done by others. Zidane, Laudrup, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Iniesta, Xavi, Kaka, etc., maybe even Pele all were rather sensitive players, some of them even introverts, no leaders and let others be the ones to manage the team. Not everyone is like Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Maradona etc.
Can't believe the guy actually caught up and woll, after this tournament, surely, surely, surpass Messi's Ballon d'Or tally.
Put Modric, Kroos and Marcelo next to Messi and they'd have been knocked out in the quarter finals of the Champions League by Juventus and we'd be talking about their obvious decline this season instead of how great they are.
He isn't? He's as much of a leader in Madrid as he is Portugal, ironically what Barcelona needed most in the CL this season was exactly that.
Messi not being a leader is a negative point, saying he doesn't need to be it because he plays great doesn't make sense. He's the star and captain of the team... of course he needs to be the leader.
Pele was a leader, Maradona, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer were too, Ronaldo has grown into it... Messi hasn't.
Not Really.
Career goals: Ronaldo 658 vs Messi 616 (Ronaldo score 42 more goals)
Career assists: Ronaldo 208 vs Messi 250 (Messi assist 42 more times)
important to mention the appearance numbers here.
I come in peace, just talking about football, not pushing hype on Messi I swear
. And I'm gonna bold the key parts because I ended up with too many lines.In the part where you say he's doing it in La Liga but not in the big games and that it's not working anymore, you have a point. But I don't think that's because he's not good enough or valid to do so and that's why I always defend his work is underrated, specially in all our defeats and some others with Argentina.
I've been watching almost every Barcelona game for 20 years and believe me, if any player fell short of expectations or failed in his concept, it was Xavi. For almost 10 years he played with an extra gear in his brain that almost no one else had in the the pitch, not even teammates, so we wasted one of the best midfielders ever for a lot of seasons, almost sold him I don't know how many times and always criticized him... but Xavi never really was the problem, the problem, and I know this is a cocky thing to say about a player, were other 8/9 guys playing with him.
What happened is that as he got Ronaldinho, Deco, Iniesta... Xavi found a bunch of teammates that had the same extra gear, this all already started in 2005, when Xavi was probably in the best form of his life and the best player of the team until his ACL tear around December that destroyed him for almost a year (returned 5 months later, wasn't close to form until 12 months later). And when he returned to peak not only he found players in Barcelona with that gear (now Messi too), he went to the Euro and beyond Iniesta he also had Fabregas, Silva, Cazorla, Alonso... he thrived and that's when Xavi really got the praise he probably could've gotten 8 years before had he the tools to play at 100%.
And why is this not happening with Messi?. Well, at Argentina level if he plays in a more CM role like he tries we know he doesn't really fill the Xavi profile, he's a little from Messi, a little from Iniesta and not much from Xavi, still he doesn't have the players to thrive playing that way, from all the players he shares the midfield maybe Banega is the only one close to the bunch of Barça and Spain style I mentioned earlier, but he's inconsistent and doesn't get much playing time, so he tries to come deep and build something, but his teammates don't move around him like they should, he doesn't get the options he needs and he's bound to fight a swarm of defenders almost everytime he tries to do something,
I talked about it the other day using this video as an example, he really doesn't achieve anything there, still what he does there is not easy or something any player can pull out of his hat consistently, yet he does. There's a bunch of technical misshapens /underwhelming decisions that you don't see in other teams, and much less on Barcelona, in the first one Higuain is slow to open into the wing, Meza gets ignored and then occupies the exact same space as Higuain, Pavon puts an awful cross. Second one Higuain cops out as a link option and burst into the area giving his back to Leo, Acuña does nothing to help, Meza at least is in a good (but hard to send the ball) position and Mascherano, they guy who knows Leo better, is the only one offering him an option (and he's the DM inside the rival area), there's other examples like in the last play, when he drives the ball 40 meters deeper but 3 Argentina players WALK from midfield to the area, and then Dybala, unmarked, gets the ball just to misscontrol it in the second touch and undo half the advance Leo achieved with a pass back.
I will point out, because it seems I have to in this thread, that I'm not actually saying that what he does there is "goat material", "bringing victory on a silver platter to Argentina" or anything in that line, I'm just saying he has a set of tools, he's trying to utilize them, but no one in that team knows how to work with tem. Then people will point at distance covered, but he's reserving his energy for exactly plays like this, is the way they reached the final in 2014, he did that in group phase, it was the thing he did before assisting Di Maria vs Switzerland, the same thing he did in the build-up to Higuain goal, or to most of Argentina's chances in the final, that's why I fight people saying he did nothing in those games.
And what about Barcelona you'll say? Well, surely Iniesta and Xavi thrived there and Leo isn't in the past 2/3 seasons, but we have to remember, Iniesta and Xavi had eachother in prime condition, Xavi was lost for years until he found Iniesta, but they didn't hit monster form until they had another player there like Messi (in a way, it was Dinho before that) and other absurdly good players like Henry, Villa or Alves. Now, Messi doesn't have a Xavi (I love Rakitic, but he's not even close, Modric could do something closer), Iniesta is still there, but if you watch him, his downfall has been evidently, he has half the legs he had back in 2008/2012, the mental speed is there but the body doesn't keep up, and then there was Neymar, as good as a player he was he's not the Barcelona style, he could work if Messi wasn't there, we can always use a player that can make the difference, but when he has 4/5 players building up behind him, it wasn't the case, that's why we won the treble playing counter-attack football, and have sucked in Europe since abandoning that idea and trying to return to the roots.
Finally, after this spam wall you might just say "that's why I'd choose Ronaldo, he doesn't need those nuances to just win", you're right, I never argued against that, I even said the other day if I have to put the cherry on a team like Portugal or even Argentina, I'd pick Ronaldo. But people here, comparing Ronaldo and Leo in stats only like goals or chances, are asking of Leo to play like Ronaldo, he won't get anything done if he just stays between CB's to win aerial duels, or if he makes runs into the area without the ball.
But the idea that Messi needs a exact type of players to thrive is no accurate either, he won a treble playing non-barça style with Ney and Suarez, he came super close to a WC and 2 Copa Americas just by being the #10 in an organized, decent team. What's happening this summer? Well they're not organized, they don't know what they're playing at (look at the lineups in their last 5 games) and we're still waiting for any other player to show up with Argentina, Messi tries, Agüero scored, the rest have done more harm than good so far, probably the pressure of having to perform in a team without identity.
The same can be said of the Real Madrid midfield, it just happens to be that Modric and Casemiro don't have a German passport, otherwise the Germans would be absurdly overpowered.
But the legendary combo of Xavi-Iniesta wasn't at the level Messi put them when he exploded, those two had been in the same squad for 4 seaons prior to Messi final eclosion in 2008, in Spain too, and Barcelona had a UCL to show for it, not a treble, and a R16 exit in Germany 2006 with Spain. Same way Real could have one or two UCL titles with that squad minus Ronaldo, but they probably wouldn't get to repeat UCL title, threepeat or win 4 titles in 5 years.
Pretending Casemiro-Kroos-Modric is anywhere as good as Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta can't be serious, especially from a Barcelona fan.
its not the biggest gap.
They're all clearly inferior players and 2016/17 aside they do not manage to dominate big games consistently. Busquets is much better than Casemiro even now nevermind a few years ago. This year they were completely dominated by several different midfields in the Champions League which would never happen with Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta.
Xavi and Iniesta are two of the greatest midfielders ever, Modric is very special but he's definitely behind them while Kroos is a very good player but there are plenty of other midfielders who are better. Trade him for a Pogba, Thiago, Rakitic, Verratti, etc. and it wouldn't have any big effect on them. Casemiro is a system player who has loads of faults in his game, he just fits well to cover for the other two defensively.
There is a much bigger difference in quality between Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta and Casemiro-Kroos-Modric than there is between Casemiro-Kroos-Modric and Busquets-Rakitic-Coutinho.
Sorry @Peyroteo but your underrating of Toni kroos there is despicable.
You have to consider aswell the amount of times messi became part of that midfield, linking play together. He helped out busquets/Xavi/iniesta far more than ronaldo has helped the Real Madrid midfield in the last 4 years, which makes the performances of Casemiro/kroos/modric even more impressive IMO.
I agree with most of that.I come in peace, just talking about football, not pushing hype on Messi I swear
In the part where you say he's doing it in La Liga but not in the big games and that it's not working anymore, you have a point. But I don't think that's because he's not good enough or valid to do so and that's why I always defend his work is underrated, specially in all our defeats and some others with Argentina.
I've been watching almost every Barcelona game for 20 years and believe me, if any player fell short of expectations or failed in his concept, it was Xavi. For almost 10 years he played with an extra gear in his brain that almost no one else had in the the pitch, not even teammates, so we wasted one of the best midfielders ever for a lot of seasons, almost sold him I don't know how many times and always criticized him... but Xavi never really was the problem, the problem, and I know this is a cocky thing to say about a player, were other 8/9 guys playing with him.
What happened is that as he got Ronaldinho, Deco, Iniesta... Xavi found a bunch of teammates that had the same extra gear, this all already started in 2005, when Xavi was probably in the best form of his life and the best player of the team until his ACL tear around December that destroyed him for almost a year (returned 5 months later, wasn't close to form until 12 months later). And when he returned to peak not only he found players in Barcelona with that gear (now Messi too), he went to the Euro and beyond Iniesta he also had Fabregas, Silva, Cazorla, Alonso... he thrived and that's when Xavi really got the praise he probably could've gotten 8 years before had he the tools to play at 100%.
And why is this not happening with Messi?. Well, at Argentina level if he plays in a more CM role like he tries we know he doesn't really fill the Xavi profile, he's a little from Messi, a little from Iniesta and not much from Xavi, still he doesn't have the players to thrive playing that way, from all the players he shares the midfield maybe Banega is the only one close to the bunch of Barça and Spain style I mentioned earlier, but he's inconsistent and doesn't get much playing time, so he tries to come deep and build something, but his teammates don't move around him like they should, he doesn't get the options he needs and he's bound to fight a swarm of defenders almost everytime he tries to do something,
I talked about it the other day using this video as an example, he really doesn't achieve anything there, still what he does there is not easy or something any player can pull out of his hat consistently, yet he does. There's a bunch of technical misshapens /underwhelming decisions that you don't see in other teams, and much less on Barcelona, in the first one Higuain is slow to open into the wing, Meza gets ignored and then occupies the exact same space as Higuain, Pavon puts an awful cross. Second one Higuain cops out as a link option and burst into the area giving his back to Leo, Acuña does nothing to help, Meza at least is in a good (but hard to send the ball) position and Mascherano, they guy who knows Leo better, is the only one offering him an option (and he's the DM inside the rival area), there's other examples like in the last play, when he drives the ball 40 meters deeper but 3 Argentina players WALK from midfield to the area, and then Dybala, unmarked, gets the ball just to misscontrol it in the second touch and undo half the advance Leo achieved with a pass back.
I will point out, because it seems I have to in this thread, that I'm not actually saying that what he does there is "goat material", "bringing victory on a silver platter to Argentina" or anything in that line, I'm just saying he has a set of tools, he's trying to utilize them, but no one in that team knows how to work with tem. Then people will point at distance covered, but he's reserving his energy for exactly plays like this, is the way they reached the final in 2014, he did that in group phase, it was the thing he did before assisting Di Maria vs Switzerland, the same thing he did in the build-up to Higuain goal, or to most of Argentina's chances in the final, that's why I fight people saying he did nothing in those games.
And what about Barcelona you'll say? Well, surely Iniesta and Xavi thrived there and Leo isn't in the past 2/3 seasons, but we have to remember, Iniesta and Xavi had eachother in prime condition, Xavi was lost for years until he found Iniesta, but they didn't hit monster form until they had another player there like Messi (in a way, it was Dinho before that) and other absurdly good players like Henry, Villa or Alves. Now, Messi doesn't have a Xavi (I love Rakitic, but he's not even close, Modric could do something closer), Iniesta is still there, but if you watch him, his downfall has been evidently, he has half the legs he had back in 2008/2012, the mental speed is there but the body doesn't keep up, and then there was Neymar, as good as a player he was he's not the Barcelona style, he could work if Messi wasn't there, we can always use a player that can make the difference, but when he has 4/5 players building up behind him, it wasn't the case, that's why we won the treble playing counter-attack football, and have sucked in Europe since abandoning that idea and trying to return to the roots.
Finally, after this spam wall you might just say "that's why I'd choose Ronaldo, he doesn't need those nuances to just win", you're right, I never argued against that, I even said the other day if I have to put the cherry on a team like Portugal or even Argentina, I'd pick Ronaldo. But people here, comparing Ronaldo and Leo in stats only like goals or chances, are asking of Leo to play like Ronaldo, he won't get anything done if he just stays between CB's to win aerial duels, or if he makes runs into the area without the ball.
But the idea that Messi needs a exact type of players to thrive is no accurate either, he won a treble playing non-barça style with Ney and Suarez, he came super close to a WC and 2 Copa Americas just by being the #10 in an organized, decent team. What's happening this summer? Well they're not organized, they don't know what they're playing at (look at the lineups in their last 5 games) and we're still waiting for any other player to show up with Argentina, Messi tries, Agüero scored, the rest have done more harm than good so far, probably the pressure of having to perform in a team without identity.
You mean this season? Ronaldo score 44 goals in 44 appearance, Messi scored 45 goals in 54 appearance
For WC, Ronaldo score 4 goals in 2 appearance, Messi scored 0 goals in 2 appearance.
No, I just actually watched him play throughout the season. What happened in the Mexico game has been happening all season. Other Madrid fans said the exact same thing here, but for a lot of people all it takes is being Ronaldo's teammate and suddenly you're immune to criticism.
During the season it was all about how Messi didn't have a good midfield behind him... Busquets has been running things for Spain, Rakitic dominating the midfield as usual for Croatia and Coutinho has been the star player for Brazil. Busquets is better than Casemiro, Modric is better than Coutinho and Rakitic is about as good as Kroos, so where is the big disadvantage? People trying to compare their teammates now as if it's anywhere near the same difference as it was in their primes in 2009-2013 either don't watch them play or they're doing the usual scapegoating that's becoming a tradition for Messi.
Madrid fans have been wanting to replace half their team because they've been terrible for the whole season. They performed at a good level for a hand full of games.
Bayern absolutely hammered their goal in the CL semi but they had horrendous finishing.
Modric is the only one that could match that Barca midfield. Kroos and especially Casemiro cannot touch that Barca midfield.
Bayern absolutely hammered their goal in the CL semi but they had horrendous finishing.
Modric is the only one that could match that Barca midfield. Kroos and especially Casemiro cannot touch that Barca midfield.
Well considering your past references goals and assists over their careers, not sure why you’d now narrow it down to just this season now. Oh, maybe it’s because you’re trying to be a deliberate WUM.
Then I'll never discuss with you over anything, never again
.They don't need to be as good as them "pund for pound".
From 2006 to 2012 you needed that midfield to break down Evra-Vidic-Ferdinand, Scholes-Hargreaves-Carrick-Ronaldo. Essien-Carvalho-Terry, Ballack-Makelele-Lampard. Martinez-Schwinsteiger, Robben-Muller-Ribery (the team that destroyed our trio, funnily with Messi injured) or Nesta-Stam, Gattuso-Seedorf-Pirlo-Kaka.
I'm sorry, may be biased here, but I think Real Madrid trio are vastly superior to any midfield they found in their last 4 UCL titles (Gabi-Koke-Raul Garcia-Tiago, or their variants with Saul, Augusto in, Raul or Tiago out), Khedira-Pjanic-Dybala or Milner-Hendo-Wijnaldum.
Level wise, who could stood to Kroos and Modric in the last 5 years beyond Barcelona at times or Pep's city (which they didn't cross them, just the Pellegrini version.)?. Then it came Casemiro, and in the bench a guy capable of running Spain like Isco or a superstar that James (their sub in 2 of their last 3 titles was the best midfielder they faced this season).
Even if that trio is a notch behind 08-12 Barcelona, the rest of Europe are two notches behind what Xavi and Iniesta had to face. Right now, excluding City there aren't Lampards, Scholes, Pirlos or Kaka's surrounded by other legends anymore, you might get to face an individual threat like Hazard, James or Dybala, but they don't get to play with players at the level of Ballack, Makelele, Carrick or Seedorf by their side.
Exception, Juve in 2015 had a better midfield than Madrid, Modric missed that leg, Casemiro wasn't there (they lacked a proper DM) and a midfield of James, Isco and Kroos lost to (aging) Pirlo, Vidal, Marchisio and Pogba (who missed a game, Sturaro played in his spot).
It's football, a lot of things can happen, but don't you think it's weird that the only leg they've lost in 5 years is the one they missed Modric and a proper DM, against a team that fielded a midfield of Vidal, Pogba and Pirlo?
What happened vs Mexico was that Kroos had two players (Vela and Lozano) taking turns at man-marking him so he couldn't touch the ball, the Spanish pundits had a good laugh at how absurd but efficient that strat was, and still, once Kroos broke from his chains in the last ~15 minutes, he managed to create a chance and almost score in one minute, and I'm not being biased because this is the MvR thread, I already said that a week ago.
The comparison of this season, Rakitic has Modric at his side with Croatia, not 34 y/o Iniesta and his defensive duties are probably reduced (Croatia play deeper than Barcelona, he has to cover less ground on sprints), Coutinho played 1k minutes with Messi but none of them in the UCL (the place our midfield struggles the most).
We'll see next season, if we get to field a balanced midfield, I've been waiting for Valverde to play some sort of 4-5-1 with Busi-Rakitic as DM, and a front 3 of Coutinho, Messi and Dembele, that's been my hope since the 2nd leg vs Roma, you can mark this post tho, if we play a 442 with Coutinho,Rakitic,Busquets and Dembele and Messi being a second striker or an extra midfielder... I'm gonna cry a river and we will suck at midfield, again.
What they wanted to replace is Benzema and Bale, both righted the boat in the last month, but they were awful until February, no one wanted to get rid of Kroos, Modric and Casemiro, at most, they're worried as who will replace Luka, since Kovacic got some options in the cup game and his performances where underwhelming, like everyone in the cup. Kroos didn't play a single minute in the cup, Modric got two 20' appeareances vs Leganes.
https://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/2018/03/kroos-has-been-laligas-top-passer-since-2014
Cue in "intrandescental lateral passes"
He has the best accuracy in the league being the player with most long passes, compare his inaccurate LB to the rest of guys in that list, he beats them all even doing it at a higher workload.
@Peyroteo you said yesterday "no one has had great teammates critized more than Messi", yet you guys are here talking nonsense about Kroos, this guy has been the Tom Brady of European football for the last 4 years.
Barcelona need to play a 4-3-3 with a midfield 3 of Busquets, Rakitic and Coutinho. The problem with the 4-3-3 under Enrique was that Messi naturally plays in the center and Neymar played on the left... then there was noone on the right since the rightback wasn't able to do the whole flank. But now with Dembele instead of Neymar, Dembele can play on the right and Alba will offer width on the left making it a lot more balanced. With Neymar there Alba wasn't really able to do that as much and it's why this past season he's probably just had the best season of his career.
It will look something like this with Alba being the one giving width on the left side.
Ter Stegen
RB-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
Busquets
Rakitic-Coutinho
Dembele-Messi............
Suarez
That's as good as Real Madrid without buying any players.RB-Pique-Umtiti-Alba
Busquets
Rakitic-Coutinho
Dembele-Messi............
Suarez
As for Kroos, this season there were a handful of better players who were better at doing what he does. Thiago, Pjanic, Rakitic... he's as good as ever at playing long balls to switch the side of play but his passing wasn't as good, he looked straight up bad in defensive transitions (and defensively in general) and he regularly failed at controlling the midfield. There was an obvious lack of motivation. Isco barely having any impact in big games was mainly due to Kroos failing to control operations since it forced Madrid to play too counterattacking instead of moving the ball around like in 2016/17. Don't get me wrong, he's incredible and one of the best midfielders of his generation but he definitely doesn't stand out the way Modric does and comparing him to Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta is nuts. Casemiro even more so.
There are only 4 irreplaceable players in Madrid's team, Ramos, Marcelo, Modric and Ronaldo. The rest are very good but they're really no different from what other top teams have. Ramos only makes it because of what he represents in that team, Marcelo is the best fullback in the world, Modric is the best midfielder in the world but saying Ramos is the best defender in the world would be pushing it a bit too.
Last edited:
You think?
You don’t think?
Even kroos stepped up when needed.
I knew that was going in
But yes, goal aside that was exactly like he's played all season.
- Status