Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


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MalcolmTucker

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His dream was to play for Madrid and he stayed another season in United Before making his dream move.


Your comparing a transfer to a player publicly quitting on his team the moment the game ended? Like I said one of the greatest he is but the greatest ever? Not with that mentality. Not possible.
:lol: Why do you have such a bee in your bonnet about Messi quitting Argentina? Doesn't actually change how much better on a football pitch Messi is than Ronaldo.

Seeing as you LITERALLY like narratives, how about the one where Messi QUIT Argentina after LOSING A FINAL, Argentina only win ONCE in 5 games without him and face MISSING OUT of the WORLD CUP, then Messi RETURNS FROM LITERALLY THE DEAD, turns it around culminating in scoring a HATTRICK in the FINAL GAME to secure WORLD CUP QUALIFICATION.

CLUTCH.
 

Gehrman

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How have we had a multitude of pages without making several comparisons to MJ, Lebron, Nadal and Federer?
 

SportingCP96

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:lol: Why do you have such a bee in your bonnet about Messi quitting Argentina? Doesn't actually change how much better on a football pitch Messi is than Ronaldo.

Seeing as you LITERALLY like narratives, how about the one where Messi QUIT Argentina after LOSING A FINAL, Argentina only win ONCE in 5 games without him and face MISSING OUT of the WORLD CUP, then Messi RETURNS FROM LITERALLY THE DEAD, turns it around culminating in scoring a HATTRICK in the FINAL GAME to secure WORLD CUP QUALIFICATION.

CLUTCH.
Didn’t Ronaldo do that exact same thing vs Sweden?

For Messi yes it is big but Ronaldo has done it plenty of times.


Also I keep bringing it up because that MATTERS. You can’t be the “Goat” but have such weak mentality.


I can only imagine if Roles were reversed. Ronaldo would be crucified but that’s neither here nor there.

Like I said before to be the GOAT you can’t just have the talent. It has to be both talent and mentality, mentality a lot of times is the most important thing because you would not be on the GOAT convo if you were not a generational gifted player anyways.
 

SCP

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Portugal were the shittiest team to win the Euros EVER.

Third in the group to Hungary and Iceland. No wins in the group, amass only 3 points. They only advance from the group stage because their goal difference was better than Turkey and Albania. No joke.

Knockouts - get outplayed by Croatia and need an extra time goal in the 117th minute. Gel boy was quiet all game. Renato Sanches MOTM

Outplayed by Poland, and the game this time goes to penalties. Renato Sanches again MOTM. Gel boy quiet.

Beat Wales convincingly in the semis. Not Germany, Italy, Spain... but Wales. First win for Portugal all tournament. Gel boy outshines the Welsh Ponytail. Good job.

Outplayed by France, gel boy has to leave the pitch in the first half. Portugal somehow fluke a win in extra time. Pulling an Eder becomes a meme. Pepe MOTM.

Gel boy fans go crazy and think that he's the greatest. Christ on a bike.
Portugal outplayed by Croatia and Poland in the knockouts? Croatia never won a game against us in their life, maybe in the next one. That game we completely nullified them, Santos completely outsmarted their clueless manager. Against Poland Lewandowski scored in the first minutes we equalised 20 minutes later and both teams nullified each other. Wales no history, total control over them. The only team who outplayed us in that tournament was France. In the group stages we had always more possession, more attacks, more shots and more chances created. The rest is history, the quality wasn’t great but in 4 knockout games we only conceded 1 goal. France was unlucky, against Poland or Croatia it was 50/50.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Ya I didn’t even bother commenting on that post haha Just thinking of the likes of Postiga, Hugo Almeida, Raul Meireles, Miguel Veloso, Varela, and Danny give me PTSD.
Meireles would be the second best midfielder Messi ever played with for Argentina had he been Argentinian.

And again, Argentina have absurd attacking depth but more or less nothing at the back. There are obviously diminishing returns on attacking talent after about 3 players; the modern Argentina have had about 8 top class attacking players and more or less nothing else.

:lol: :lol: :lol: it's a trap!
It's absolutely true if you go position by position, which is most relevant. Obviously if you look solely at the top 5 players available Argentina will look better, but this overlooks the fact that they all play the same 2 positions.

O Braga tem um estádio lindo mas os afetos não enchem o estádio como deviam fazer!

Se puderes devias ver um jogo no estádio de Guimarães. Para mim os adeptos deles são os melhores a seguir aos três grandes. Adeptos fervorosos e malucas pelo clube. Estão a construir uma grande equipa com jovens talentos e ontem comprarem o Ricardo Quaresma!
Sim, quero ir, especialmente porque Quaresma e um diversao!

Portuguese FA has been every bit as incompetent and corrupt throughout the years. And we had plenty of terrible managers.

Before managing the national team the most known achievement of Fernando Santos in Portugal was losing a league title with Porto to a roundabout in Porto
Categorically false. Prior to his appointment Maradona was literally not managing. There's absolutely no comparison between the two FAs.
 

Tel074

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I don't get why we can't mention Messi without Ronaldo or vice versa.
They are 2 different players who both will go down as 2 of the greatest players in history .
I never get drawn into the debate of which one is better because they are both incredible talents.
I love watching them both and hope they both can continue playing as long as possible ..
 

SCP

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You can’t compare the number of international goals between Europeans or South Americans. They will always lose on comparison because they don’t have a lot of weak teams on their continent. But you can compare the number of goals scored between him and Henry, and he already scored 2 times more than him. Of course I think in 5 years without injuries Lukaku is going to break this record. What is impressive in this record for me isn’t the number of goals and the level of opponents. It’s the fact in the last 6 years he scored half of this goals. Between 30 to 35 years old. Now that’s really impressive. He might not be the greatest player ever in the game. I agree. But mentally and as a football athlete he is the best ever. Mentally maybe Matthaus above him or Beckenbauer, debatable, but as a athlete no one beats him. Not even Messi.
 

Suedesi

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Madrid were the most dominant team in Spain?! Lmaooo

Sure I guess we can gracefully ignore that Messi for a majority of his career ALWAYS had the better team :)

When Ronaldo joined United were they the most dominant team in the country? Was he not the X factor in United being so dominant? Did United Have a great team? Yes

Yet that Barca team played them out the park. That Barca team was the greatest club team in history and that core was part of the greater national team in history.
Yes, when Ronaldo joined United we were still the richest and the most dominant team in England. Biggest stadium, most following, biggest wage bill. Cristiano was an important player, but he did not alter United's history, don't kid yourself. We would have won with or without Ronaldo. We did win before and after. Fergie on the other hand is a completely different matter.

Madrid are the richest and the most dominant team in Spain, that's not even debatable. Look at the history, palmares, following, money spent. While Ronaldo was there, Madrid vastly outspent Barcelona and still got outplayed every single time. The balance shifted a little bit over the last years with Zidane's pragmatism but let's not forget the hidings Barcelona would inflict on RM at Bernabeu over and over and over again. And Messi was key part of that, dropping into midfield to dominate proceedings, creating assists, scoring goals, getting his ankles/shins murdered by Sergio Ramos, Pepe, Carvalho, Casemiro or whoever the feck was the rotating criminal du jour. Ronaldo was by far a more peripheral figure, definitely not involved on team but deadly in front of goal. And this is why Ronaldo can't be a greater player than Messi, because if things don't go his away Ronaldo strops. Cristiano doesn't offer the same from midfield, he's just become lethal in the box and that's it. Messi is that PLUS MORE.

And finally, when Messi scores even Ronaldo slides into celebration
 

Suedesi

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You can’t compare the number of international goals between Europeans or South Americans. They will always lose on comparison because they don’t have a lot of weak teams on their continent. But you can compare the number of goals scored between him and Henry, and he already scored 2 times more than him. Of course I think in 5 years without injuries Lukaku is going to break this record. What is impressive in this record for me isn’t the number of goals and the level of opponents. It’s the fact in the last 6 years he scored half of this goals. Between 30 to 35 years old. Now that’s really impressive. He might not be the greatest player ever in the game. I agree. But mentally and as a football athlete he is the best ever. Mentally maybe Matthaus above him or Beckenbauer, debatable, but as a athlete no one beats him. Not even Messi.
This is fair.
 

Zehner

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What did I do? Messi is a better dribbler. That's it. And if you ask Ronaldo he will say Messi has a better left foot. Other than that, Ronaldo is either equal to or superior. Messi may have better passing stats, but it's not because Ronaldo can't make those passes. It's because he is the one on the end of those passes. He can do a lot of things, but he can't pass the ball to himself :lol: :lol: :lol:
I've heard Chuck Norris jokes that are less absurd than this statement
 

footballistic orgasm

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The funny thing is no one here seems to be able to mention anything that Ronaldo does better than Messi with the ball, I mean after all we're talking about football here right?

If the question is if Ronaldo is a better athlete, then yes sure. But better footballer, nope.
 

Peyroteo

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Meireles would be the second best midfielder Messi ever played with for Argentina had he been Argentinian.
What the hell are you even talking about? :lol:

Banega, Mascherano, Lo Celso, Riquelme, Lucho, Cambiasso, Aimar, Gago, Veron, Pastore... even the likes of Enzo Perez when he was at his best tearing our league apart were better than Meireles ffs. Di Maria also played midfield too.

And again, Argentina have absurd attacking depth but more or less nothing at the back. There are obviously diminishing returns on attacking talent after about 3 players; the modern Argentina have had about 8 top class attacking players and more or less nothing else.
Their defense and midfield options while far from some other great nations have been miles better than what Ronaldo's played with. The options up front aren't even comparable when the starters for Portugal during Ronaldo's prime wouldn't even be the 50th option for Argentina at the time.

It's absolutely true if you go position by position, which is most relevant. Obviously if you look solely at the top 5 players available Argentina will look better, but this overlooks the fact that they all play the same 2 positions.
They play the same 2 positions? Messi, Di Maria and Aguero for one play 3 completely different positions and have all been great for over a decade.

Categorically false. Prior to his appointment Maradona was literally not managing. There's absolutely no comparison between the two FAs.
Are Juve as corrupt and incompetent this season given Pirlo was literally not managing? Mate, at a point it wasn't even our manager that picked the team... you don't know what you're talking about if you think the portuguese FA hasn't been massively corrupt and incompetent for pretty much its entire existence.
 

tomaldinho1

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Meireles would be the second best midfielder Messi ever played with for Argentina had he been Argentinian.

And again, Argentina have absurd attacking depth but more or less nothing at the back. There are obviously diminishing returns on attacking talent after about 3 players; the modern Argentina have had about 8 top class attacking players and more or less nothing else.
This must be a wum

modern day Argentina are probably the only team up there with England for how badly they underperform even though they are littered with world class talent in every position.

That line on Meireles...needs addressing
 

Gehrman

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Someone mentioned that Messi isn't a big game player

Opponents:
Real Madrid - 26 goals & 14 assists in 41 matches
Sevilla - 37 goals & 19 assists in 37 matches
Athletico Madrid - 32 goals & 8 assists in 37 matches

Valencia - 28 goals & 14 assists in 33 matches
Athletic - 24 goals & 11 assists in 33 matches
Deportivo - 20 goals & 7 assists in 15 matches
Malaga - 13 goals & 6 assists in 17 matches.

Arsenal - 9 goals & 2 assists in 6 matches
AC milan - 8 goals & 4 assists in 8 matches
Leverkursen - 7 goals & 1 assist in 3 matches

Man City - 6 goals & 3 assists in 6 matches
Lyon - 5 goals & 3 assists in 6 matches
Bayern Munich - 4 goals & 2 assists in 6 matches

Man Utd - 4 goals in 6 matches
Juventus - 2 goals in 4 matches
Liverpool - 2 goals in 4 matches

Roma - 2 goals & 1 assist in 4 matches
Ajax - 6 goals & 1 assists in 3 matches
PSG - 4 goals & 1 assist in 7 matches
Chelsea - 3 goals & 3 assists in 10 matches(his kryptonite like Inter milan.

Not really a shabby record overall. Stats from transfermarkt.
 
Last edited:

Forevergiggs1

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What is the point in this debate?

520 pages and has anyone’s opinion changed since page 1 after many, many detailed posts to back up their choice?

I am done debating it, it’s tiresome.
Bang on. If ever their was a thread that keeps going round in circles it's this one. No one is going to change the others mind so what the point?
 

Gehrman

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Bang on. If ever their was a thread that keeps going round in circles it's this one. No one is going to change the others mind so what the point?
Because hopefully within 50 years we will finally have settled the discussion.
 

Camara

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*Sigh*

Assists in the CL:

(UEFA site)
Messi 35 in 143 apps (0.245 assists/app)
Ronaldo 39 in 170 apps (0.229 assists/app)

OR

(Transfermarkt)
Messi 39 in 143 apps (0.273 assists/app)
Ronaldo 47 in 170 apps (0.276 assists/app)


Goals scored in CL:

Messi 115 in 143 apps (0.804 goals/app)
Ronaldo 130 in 170 apps (0.765 goals/app)

Messi has 68 goals in the group stages (59.1%) and 47 (40.9%) in the knockout stages.
Ronaldo has 63 goals in the group stages (48.5%) and 67 (51.5%) in the knockout stages.

Round of 16: Messi 27 goals, Ronaldo 25 goals
Quarter-Finals: Messi 12 goals, Ronaldo 25 goals
Semi-Finals: Messi 6 goals, Ronaldo 13 goals
Finals: Messi 2 goals, Ronaldo 4 goals

Messi goals:

Arsenal 9
Celtic Glasgow 8
AC Milan 8
Bayer Leverkusen 7
Ajax 6
Manchester City 6
Lyon 5
Bayern Munchen 4
Manchester United 4
Panathinaikos 4
Paris Saint-Germain 4
PSV 4
Spartak Moskva 4
APOEL Nicosia 3
Chelsea 3
Kobenhavn 3
Plzen 3
Shakhtar Donetsk 3
Stuttgart 3
Basel 2
BATE Borisov 2
Dynamo Kyiv 2
Juventus 2
Liverpool 2
Real Madrid 2
Roma 2
Tottenham 2
Borussia Dortmund 1
Borussia Monchengladbach 1
Glasgow Rangers 1
Napoli 1
Olympiakos 1
Slavia Prague 1
Sporting CP 1
Werder Bremen 1

England 26 (Arsenal 9, Manchester City 6, Manchester United 4, Chelsea 3, Liverpool 2, Tottenham 2)
Germany 17 (Bayer Leverkusen 7, Bayern Munchen 4, Stuttgart 3, Borussia Dortmund 1, Borussia Monchengladbach 1, Werder Bremen 1)
Italy 13 (AC Milan 8, Juventus 2, Roma 2, Napoli 1)
Netherlands 10 (Ajax 6, PSV 4)
France 9 (Lyon 5, Paris Saint-Germain 4)
Scotland 9 (Celtic Glasgow 8, Glasgow Rangers 1)
Greece 5 (Panathinaikos 4, Olympiakos 1)
Ukraine 5 (Shakhtar Donetsk 3, Dynamo Kyiv 2)
Czech Republic 4 (Plzen 3, Slavia Prague 1)
Russia 4 (Spartak Moskva 4)
Cyprus 3 (APOEL Nicosia 3)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Belarus 2 (BATE Borisov 2)
Spain 2 (Real Madrid 2)
Switzerland 2 (Basel 2)
Portugal 1 (Sporting CP 1)

Ronaldo goals:

Juventus 10
Ajax 9
Bayern Munchen 9
Atlético Madrid 7
Borussia Dortmund 7
Schalke 04 7
APOEL Nicosia 6
Galatasaray 6
Lyon 6
Malmo 6
Roma 5
Shakhtar Donetsk 5
Marseille 4
Tottenham 4
CSKA Moskva 3
Dynamo Kyiv 3
Kobenhavn 3
Manchester United 3
Paris Saint-Germain 3
Sporting CP 3
Wolfsburg 3
Arsenal 2
Basel 2
Bayer Leverkusen 2
Ludogorets 2
AC Milan 2
Zurich 2
Auxerre 1
Chelsea 1
Inter 1
Liverpool 1
Manchester City 1
FC Porto 1

Germany 28 (Bayern Munchen 9, Borussia Dortmund 7, Schalke 04 7, Wolfsburg 3, Bayer Leverkusen 2)
Italy 18 (Juventus 10, Roma 5, AC Milan 2, Inter 1)
France 14 (Lyon 6, Marseille 4, Paris Saint-Germain 3, Auxerre 1)
England 12 (Tottenham 4, Manchester United 3, Arsenal 2, Chelsea 1, Liverpool 1, Manchester City 1)
Netherlands 9 (Ajax 9)
Ukraine 8 (Shakhtar Donetsk 5, Dynamo Kyiv 3)
Spain 7 (Atlético Madrid 7)
Cyprus 6 (APOEL Nicosia 6)
Sweden 6 (Malmo 6)
Turkey 6 (Galatasaray 6)
Portugal 4 (Sporting CP 3, FC Porto 1)
Switzerland 4 (Basel 2, Zurich 2)
Denmark 3 (Kobenhavn 3)
Russia 3 (CSKA Moskva 3)
Bulgaria 2 (Ludogorets 2)
 

Camara

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National Teams

Messi

GoalsAssistsMinutesApps
Total
70​
42​
11355​
138​

Penalties
15​
Free Kicks
6​

Goals per app
0,51​
Minutes to goal
162,21​
Assists per app
0,30​
Minutes to assist
270,36​
GA per app
0,81​
Minutes to GA
101,38​


Friendlies only:

Only Friendlies
34​
15​
3713​
46​
Goals per app
0,74​
Minutes to goal
109,21​
Assists per app
0,33​
Minutes to assist
247,53​
GA per app
1,07​
Minutes to GA
75,78​

Competitive only

Only Competitive
36​
27​
7642​
92​
Goals per app
0,39​
Minutes to goal
212,28​
Assists per app
0,29​
Minutes to assist
283,04​
GA per app
0,68​
Minutes to GA
121,30​


Messi apps detailed

OpponentGoalsAssistsMinutesCompetition
Albania
1​
2​
90​
Friendly
Algeria
2​
0​
90​
Friendly
Angola
0​
0​
27​
Friendly
Australia
0​
1​
90​
Friendly
Belgium
0​
0​
90​
WC
Bolivia
0​
0​
45​
Copa America
Bolivia
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Bolivia
2​
0​
25​
Friendly
Bolivia
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Bolivia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Bolivia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Bolivia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Bolivia
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Bosnia-Herzegovina
1​
0​
90​
WC
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Brazil
3​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Chile
0​
1​
37​
Copa America
Chile
0​
0​
120​
Copa America
Chile
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Chile
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Chile
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Chile
1​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Chile
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Chile
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Chile
0​
0​
84​
WC Qualifier
Colombia
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Colombia
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Colombia
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Colombia
0​
0​
81​
Copa America
Colombia
1​
2​
90​
WC Qualifier
Colombia
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Colombia
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Colombia
0​
0​
32​
WC Qualifier
Colombia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Costa Rica
0​
2​
90​
Copa America
Croatia
1​
1​
90​
Friendly
Croatia
1​
1​
90​
Friendly
Croatia
0​
0​
90​
WC
Ecuador
3​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Ecuador
1​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Ecuador
0​
0​
29​
WC Qualifier
Ecuador
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Ecuador
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
France
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
France
0​
2​
90​
WC
Germany
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Germany
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Germany
0​
0​
120​
WC
Germany
0​
0​
90​
WC
Greece
0​
0​
90​
WC
Guatemala
3​
1​
88​
Friendly
Haiti
3​
1​
90​
Friendly
Honduras
0​
0​
64​
Friendly
Hong Kong
2​
1​
30​
Friendly
Hungary
0​
0​
1​
Friendly
Iceland
0​
0​
90​
WC
Iran
1​
0​
90​
WC
Ireland
0​
0​
58​
Friendly
Jamaica
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Japan
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Mexico
1​
0​
90​
Copa America
Mexico
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Mexico
1​
1​
84​
Friendly
Mexico
0​
1​
90​
WC
Mexico
0​
0​
36​
WC
Netherlands
0​
0​
120​
WC
Netherlands
0​
0​
69​
WC
Nic aragua
2​
0​
45​
Friendly
Nigeria
0​
1​
90​
Friendly
Nigeria
2​
0​
63​
WC
Nigeria
1​
0​
90​
WC
Nigeria
0​
0​
90​
WC
Norway
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Panama
3​
0​
29​
Copa America
Paraguay
1​
0​
90​
Copa America
Paraguay
1​
0​
90​
Copa America
Paraguay
0​
3​
90​
Copa America
Paraguay
0​
0​
25​
Copa America
Paraguay
2​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Paraguay
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Paraguay
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Paraguay
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Peru
1​
0​
90​
Copa America
Peru
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Peru
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Peru
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Peru
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Peru
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Peru
0​
0​
10​
WC Qualifier
Portugal
1​
1​
90​
Friendly
Portugal
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Qatar
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Qatar
0​
1​
81​
Friendly
Romania
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Russia
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Saudia Arabia
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Serbia-Montenegro
1​
1​
16​
WC
Slovenia
1​
0​
32​
Friendly
South Korea
0​
0​
90​
WC
Spain
1​
0​
88​
Friendly
Spain
1​
0​
85​
Friendly
Spain
0​
0​
81​
Friendly
Sweden
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Switzerland
3​
0​
90​
Friendly
Switzerland
0​
1​
89​
Friendly
Switzerland
0​
1​
120​
WC
Trinidad &Tobago
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
United States
1​
2​
90​
Copa America
United States
0​
1​
78​
Copa America
United States
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
United States
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Uruguay
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Uruguay
0​
1​
120​
Copa America
Uruguay
1​
1​
90​
Friendly
Uruguay
2​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Uruguay
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Uruguay
1​
0​
88​
WC Qualifier
Uruguay
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Uruguay
0​
0​
85​
WC Qualifier
Uruguay
0​
0​
25​
WC Qualifier
Venezuela
1​
2​
90​
Copa America
Venezuela
0​
0​
90​
Copa America
Venezuela
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Venezuela
0​
1​
90​
Friendly
Venezuela
1​
2​
90​
WC Qualifier
Venezuela
1​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Venezuela
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Venezuela
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Venezuela
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
 
Last edited:

SportingCP96

emotional range of a teaspoon
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
9,873
Supports
Sporting Clube de Portugal
The only reason it'll be settled in 50 years time will be because most of us will have dementia and will have forgotten who Messi and Ronaldo were
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: If this had the *Skulls emojis I would put that instead.
This nearly had me spit out my drink!
 

Camara

Full Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
669
Location
Portugal
Supports
FC Porto
National Teams


Ronaldo

GoalsAssistsMinutesApps
Total
101​
30​
13129​
165​

Penalties
11​
Free Kicks
10​

Goals per app
0,61​
Minutes to goal
129,99​
Assists per app
0,18​
Minutes to assist
437,63​
GA per app
0,79​
Minutes to GA
100,22​

Friendlies only:

Only Friendlies
17​
8​
2959​
46​
Goals per app
0,37​
Minutes to goal
174,06​
Assists per app
0,17​
Minutes to assist
369,88​
GA per app
0,54​
Minutes to GA
118,36​

Competitive only

Only Competitive
84​
22​
10170​
119​
Goals per app
0,71​
Minutes to goal
121,07​
Assists per app
0,18​
Minutes to assist
462,27​
GA per app
0,89​
Minutes to GA
95,94​


Ronaldo apps detailed

OpponentGoalsAssistsMinutesCompetition
Albania
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Albania
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Albania
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Albania
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Algeria
0​
1​
75​
Friendly
Andorra
4​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Andorra
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Angola
0​
0​
60​
WC
Argentina
1​
0​
60​
Friendly
Argentina
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Armenia
3​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Armenia
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Armenia
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Armenia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Austria
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Azerbaijan
2​
0​
73​
Euro Qualifier
Azerbaijan
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Azerbaijan
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Belgium
2​
1​
78​
Euro Qualifier
Belgium
1​
0​
61​
Friendly
Bosnia-Herzegovina
2​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Bosnia-Herzegovina
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
63​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
WC
Bulgaria
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Cameroon
2​
0​
87​
Friendly
Cameroon
0​
1​
90​
Friendly
Canada
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Cape Verde
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Cape Verde
0​
0​
61​
Friendly
Chile
0​
0​
120​
Confed Cup
China
0​
1​
45​
Friendly
Croatia
1​
0​
45​
Friendly
Croatia
0​
0​
120​
Euro
Croatia
0​
1​
76​
Friendly
Cyprus
2​
1​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Czech Republic
1​
0​
90​
Euro
Czech Republic
1​
1​
90​
Euro
Denmark
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
1​
1​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Denmark
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
0​
1​
66​
Friendly
Denmark
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Ecuador
1​
0​
62​
Friendly
Egypt
2​
0​
90​
Friendly
England
0​
0​
120​
Euro
England
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
England
0​
0​
120​
WC
Estonia
2​
0​
45​
Friendly
Estonia
1​
0​
88​
WC Qualifier
Estonia
1​
2​
90​
WC Qualifier
Faroe Islands
3​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Faroe Islands
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Finland
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Finland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Finland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
France
0​
0​
25​
Euro
France
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
France
0​
0​
76​
Friendly
France
0​
0​
90​
WC
Georgia
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Germany
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Germany
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Germany
0​
0​
90​
WC
Germany
0​
0​
90​
WC
Ghana
1​
0​
90​
WC
Greece
1​
0​
45​
Euro
Greece
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Hungary
2​
1​
90​
Euro
Hungary
2​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Hungary
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Hungary
0​
0​
27​
WC Qualifier
Hungary
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Iceland
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Iceland
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Iceland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Iran
1​
0​
90​
WC
Iran
0​
0​
90​
WC
Ireland
0​
0​
65​
Friendly
Ireland
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
Israel
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Israel
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Italy
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Italy
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Ivory Coast
0​
0​
90​
WC
Kazakhstan
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Kazakhstan
1​
0​
58​
Euro Qualifier
Kazakhstan
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Latvia
2​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Latvia
2​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Latvia
1​
1​
82​
WC Qualifier
Latvia
0​
0​
45​
WC Qualifier
Liechtenstein
0​
1​
84​
WC Qualifier
Liechtenstein
0​
1​
62​
WC Qualifier
Lithuania
4​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Lithuania
3​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Lithuania
0​
0​
26​
Friendly
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Luxembourg
1​
1​
45​
Friendly
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Luxembourg
0​
0​
70​
Friendly
Luxembourg
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Luxembourg
0​
0​
62​
WC Qualifier
Mexico
0​
1​
90​
Confed Cup
Morocco
1​
0​
90​
WC
Mozambique
0​
0​
27​
Friendly
Netherlands
2​
0​
90​
Euro
Netherlands
1​
1​
67​
Euro
Netherlands
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Netherlands
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
Netherlands
0​
0​
90​
Nations League
Netherlands
0​
0​
34​
WC
New Zealand
1​
0​
90​
Confed Cup
North Ireland
3​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
North Ireland
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
North Ireland
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
North Korea
1​
1​
90​
WC
North Macedonia
0​
0​
72​
Friendly
Norway
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Panama
1​
0​
61​
Friendly
Poland
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Poland
0​
0​
120​
Euro
Poland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Poland
0​
0​
76​
Friendly
Russia
2​
1​
85​
WC Qualifier
Russia
1​
0​
90​
Confed Cup
Russia
0​
1​
12​
Euro
Russia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Russia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Russia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Saudi Arabia
2​
0​
90​
Friendly
Serbia
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
31​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Slovakia
1​
0​
76​
WC Qualifier
Slovakia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
South Africa
0​
0​
33​
Friendly
Spain
3​
0​
90​
WC
Spain
0​
0​
120​
Euro
Spain
0​
0​
85​
Euro
Spain
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Spain
0​
0​
90​
WC
Sweden
3​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Sweden
2​
0​
81​
Nations League
Sweden
1​
0​
57​
Friendly
Sweden
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Sweden
0​
1​
28​
Friendly
Sweden
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Sweden
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Switzerland
3​
0​
90​
Nations League
Switzerland
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Turkey
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Turkey
0​
1​
90​
Friendly
Ukraine
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Ukraine
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
United States
0​
1​
90​
WC
Uruguay
0​
0​
90​
WC
Wales
1​
1​
90​
Euro


Now kill each other with facts
Good night
 

Zehner

Football Statistics Dork
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
7,984
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
The only reason it'll be settled in 50 years time will be because most of us will have dementia and will have forgotten who Messi and Ronaldo were
Hopefully dementia can be treated until then. We can go on and on in the retirement homes. Maybe I'll move to Portugal for that.
 

SportingCP96

emotional range of a teaspoon
Joined
Feb 17, 2014
Messages
9,873
Supports
Sporting Clube de Portugal
National Teams


Ronaldo

GoalsAssistsMinutesApps
Total
101​
30​
13129​
165​

Penalties
11​
Free Kicks
10​

Goals per app
0,61​
Minutes to goal
129,99​
Assists per app
0,18​
Minutes to assist
437,63​
GA per app
0,79​
Minutes to GA
100,22​

Friendlies only:

Only Friendlies
17​
8​
2959​
46​
Goals per app
0,37​
Minutes to goal
174,06​
Assists per app
0,17​
Minutes to assist
369,88​
GA per app
0,54​
Minutes to GA
118,36​

Competitive only

Only Competitive
84​
22​
10170​
119​
Goals per app
0,71​
Minutes to goal
121,07​
Assists per app
0,18​
Minutes to assist
462,27​
GA per app
0,89​
Minutes to GA
95,94​


Ronaldo apps detailed

OpponentGoalsAssistsMinutesCompetition
Albania
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Albania
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Albania
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Albania
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Algeria
0​
1​
75​
Friendly
Andorra
4​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Andorra
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Angola
0​
0​
60​
WC
Argentina
1​
0​
60​
Friendly
Argentina
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Armenia
3​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Armenia
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Armenia
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Armenia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Austria
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Azerbaijan
2​
0​
73​
Euro Qualifier
Azerbaijan
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Azerbaijan
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Belgium
2​
1​
78​
Euro Qualifier
Belgium
1​
0​
61​
Friendly
Bosnia-Herzegovina
2​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Bosnia-Herzegovina
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
63​
Friendly
Brazil
0​
0​
90​
WC
Bulgaria
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Cameroon
2​
0​
87​
Friendly
Cameroon
0​
1​
90​
Friendly
Canada
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Cape Verde
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Cape Verde
0​
0​
61​
Friendly
Chile
0​
0​
120​
Confed Cup
China
0​
1​
45​
Friendly
Croatia
1​
0​
45​
Friendly
Croatia
0​
0​
120​
Euro
Croatia
0​
1​
76​
Friendly
Cyprus
2​
1​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Czech Republic
1​
0​
90​
Euro
Czech Republic
1​
1​
90​
Euro
Denmark
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
1​
1​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Denmark
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Denmark
0​
1​
66​
Friendly
Denmark
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Ecuador
1​
0​
62​
Friendly
Egypt
2​
0​
90​
Friendly
England
0​
0​
120​
Euro
England
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
England
0​
0​
120​
WC
Estonia
2​
0​
45​
Friendly
Estonia
1​
0​
88​
WC Qualifier
Estonia
1​
2​
90​
WC Qualifier
Faroe Islands
3​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Faroe Islands
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Finland
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Finland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Finland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
France
0​
0​
25​
Euro
France
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
France
0​
0​
76​
Friendly
France
0​
0​
90​
WC
Georgia
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Germany
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Germany
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Germany
0​
0​
90​
WC
Germany
0​
0​
90​
WC
Ghana
1​
0​
90​
WC
Greece
1​
0​
45​
Euro
Greece
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Hungary
2​
1​
90​
Euro
Hungary
2​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Hungary
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Hungary
0​
0​
27​
WC Qualifier
Hungary
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Iceland
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Iceland
0​
0​
90​
Euro
Iceland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Iran
1​
0​
90​
WC
Iran
0​
0​
90​
WC
Ireland
0​
0​
65​
Friendly
Ireland
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
Israel
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Israel
0​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Italy
0​
0​
90​
Friendly
Italy
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Ivory Coast
0​
0​
90​
WC
Kazakhstan
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Kazakhstan
1​
0​
58​
Euro Qualifier
Kazakhstan
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Latvia
2​
1​
90​
WC Qualifier
Latvia
2​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Latvia
1​
1​
82​
WC Qualifier
Latvia
0​
0​
45​
WC Qualifier
Liechtenstein
0​
1​
84​
WC Qualifier
Liechtenstein
0​
1​
62​
WC Qualifier
Lithuania
4​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Lithuania
3​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Lithuania
0​
0​
26​
Friendly
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Luxembourg
1​
1​
45​
Friendly
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Luxembourg
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Luxembourg
0​
0​
70​
Friendly
Luxembourg
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Luxembourg
0​
0​
62​
WC Qualifier
Mexico
0​
1​
90​
Confed Cup
Morocco
1​
0​
90​
WC
Mozambique
0​
0​
27​
Friendly
Netherlands
2​
0​
90​
Euro
Netherlands
1​
1​
67​
Euro
Netherlands
1​
0​
90​
Friendly
Netherlands
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
Netherlands
0​
0​
90​
Nations League
Netherlands
0​
0​
34​
WC
New Zealand
1​
0​
90​
Confed Cup
North Ireland
3​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
North Ireland
0​
0​
68​
Friendly
North Ireland
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
North Korea
1​
1​
90​
WC
North Macedonia
0​
0​
72​
Friendly
Norway
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Panama
1​
0​
61​
Friendly
Poland
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Poland
0​
0​
120​
Euro
Poland
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Poland
0​
0​
76​
Friendly
Russia
2​
1​
85​
WC Qualifier
Russia
1​
0​
90​
Confed Cup
Russia
0​
1​
12​
Euro
Russia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Russia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Russia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Saudi Arabia
2​
0​
90​
Friendly
Serbia
1​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
31​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Serbia
0​
0​
90​
Euro Qualifier
Slovakia
1​
0​
76​
WC Qualifier
Slovakia
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
South Africa
0​
0​
33​
Friendly
Spain
3​
0​
90​
WC
Spain
0​
0​
120​
Euro
Spain
0​
0​
85​
Euro
Spain
0​
0​
45​
Friendly
Spain
0​
0​
90​
WC
Sweden
3​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Sweden
2​
0​
81​
Nations League
Sweden
1​
0​
57​
Friendly
Sweden
1​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
Sweden
0​
1​
28​
Friendly
Sweden
0​
0​
90​
WC Qualifier
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Turkey
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1​
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United States
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Uruguay
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Wales
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Now kill each other with facts
Good night
* Camara drops mic

You Just absolutely murdered this page and all the Messi fan boys along with it.

Look at the stats comparing competitive games and let that show you why outside of Barca there are questions on If he would be the same.

As I said before it is not a coincidence that Messi best ever period coincided with the core of the greatest club and national team of all time.

While that core was winning every major trophy back to back to back Messi was putting up those numbers in competitive play. As I said before he is not the same.

When you look at stats like this and everything else stated today it boggles my mind people still try to say Messi is the goat "just because he is"

This was a slap of reality pie right here my friend.

Well done.
 

SportingCP96

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Hopefully dementia can be treated until then. We can go on and on in the retirement homes. Maybe I'll move to Portugal for that.
TBH this debate and this thread will still be open and happening while they are on their death beds :lol: Its beautiful aint it?
 

MalcolmTucker

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* Camara drops mic

You Just absolutely murdered this page and all the Messi fan boys along with it.

Look at the stats comparing competitive games and let that show you why outside of Barca there are questions on If he would be the same.

As I said before it is not a coincidence that Messi best ever period coincided with the core of the greatest club and national team of all time.

While that core was winning every major trophy back to back to back Messi was putting up those numbers in competitive play. As I said before he is not the same.

When you look at stats like this and everything else stated today it boggles my mind people still try to say Messi is the goat "just because he is"

This was a slap of reality pie right here my friend.

Well done.
Ronaldo gets to play competitive games against the likes of Luxembourg, Lithuana, Latvia, Andorra, Faroe Islands, Armenia, Estonia - these minnows who rank outside the top 100 in the fifa rankings make up over a 1/3rd of Ronaldo's international goal tally.

Messi's average international opponent is ranked #35 whereas Ronaldo's is ranked #52.

Here's a good breakdown of their international careers
https://michelacosta.com/en/lionel-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-at-international-level/
 

Acheron

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The funny thing is no one here seems to be able to mention anything that Ronaldo does better than Messi with the ball, I mean after all we're talking about football here right?

If the question is if Ronaldo is a better athlete, then yes sure. But better footballer, nope.
I can think on a few as they're not the same type of player. To summarize I think Ronaldo is more direct on attack and his attributes would make a better striket than Messi, in theory at least. He's a better header, has more powerful shots, he can strike with both legs and he's a better crosser. As for Messi I'd say he's the absolutely all time best when it comes to his balance and his close control on tight spaces. There's a lot more than that going for either of them but like I said they have different styles with both being very effective in their respective roles.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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What the hell are you even talking about? :lol:

Banega, Mascherano, Lo Celso, Riquelme, Lucho, Cambiasso, Aimar, Gago, Veron, Pastore... even the likes of Enzo Perez when he was at his best tearing our league apart were better than Meireles ffs. Di Maria also played midfield too.

Their defense and midfield options while far from some other great nations have been miles better than what Ronaldo's played with. The options up front aren't even comparable when the starters for Portugal during Ronaldo's prime wouldn't even be the 50th option for Argentina at the time.

They play the same 2 positions? Messi, Di Maria and Aguero for one play 3 completely different positions and have all been great for over a decade.

Are Juve as corrupt and incompetent this season given Pirlo was literally not managing? Mate, at a point it wasn't even our manager that picked the team... you don't know what you're talking about if you think the portuguese FA hasn't been massively corrupt and incompetent for pretty much its entire existence.
Banega is a number 10. Mascherano is the one midfielder better than Meireles. Lo Celso is an attacking midfielder and isn't actually better than Meireles. Riquelme was past it when he overlapped with Messi and was an attacking midfielder, Lucho Gonzalez was never as good as Meireles, Cambiasso is a good shout and the one I forgot, Pablo Aimar was a 10, Fernando Gago was nowhere near as good as Meireles, Veron was past it when Messi came into the team, Pastore is a 10, Enzo Perez was nowhere close to Meireles. Di Maria isn't a central midfielder either.

All you've done is proven my point. Argentina have had an absurd number of attacking midfielders, strikers, and wingers and no one who can complete a functional midfield to the point where Raul Meireles would be the 3rd best midfielder Messi had ever played with in an Argentinian shirt.

Also, it's hilarious that you list 3 top class Argentinian attackers, 2 of whom play the same position. That's exactly the point. Messi, Tevez, Di Maria, Higuain, Dybala, Lisandro Lopez, etc. All these players play in the front 3. Then when you add in the ludicrous plethora of attacking mdifielders you can see how top heavy the Argentina squad has been for the past decade and a half. You listed 10 supposed central midfielders and 6 of them don't even qualify :lol: .

Obviously the Portuguese FA isn't made up of saints but the point is that arguing they're at all comparable to the Argentinian FA where half the players had to go on strike to force them to get their shit together is disingenuous at best. Stop strawmanning; no one is trying to say one FA is blameless.

This must be a wum

modern day Argentina are probably the only team up there with England for how badly they underperform even though they are littered with world class talent in every position.

That line on Meireles...needs addressing
Go ahead and list the top class Argentinian players from their back 5/6 who underachieved and were better than Meireles. I'll wait.
 

Bebestation

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:( Why oh why did Messi have to stay at Barcelona.

Im sure it's not me but alot of the Ronaldo approvers would have gladly have given him the GOAT if he had impressed atleast to 75% of his usual level - leading to atleast some successes; proving that he can play outside a certain comfort zone that he has been playing in all his life.

It would have ended this thread for the better and Messi would have gone on to be the GOAT no questions asked. Right now there is just questions- questions that no one even asked Ronaldo and he wants to answer. What a wonder ars*****.
 

SportingCP96

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Banega is a number 10. Mascherano is the one midfielder better than Meireles. Lo Celso is an attacking midfielder and isn't actually better than Meireles. Riquelme was past it when he overlapped with Messi and was an attacking midfielder, Lucho Gonzalez was never as good as Meireles, Cambiasso is a good shout and the one I forgot, Pablo Aimar was a 10, Fernando Gago was nowhere near as good as Meireles, Veron was past it when Messi came into the team, Pastore is a 10, Enzo Perez was nowhere close to Meireles. Di Maria isn't a central midfielder either.

All you've done is proven my point. Argentina have had an absurd number of attacking midfielders, strikers, and wingers and no one who can complete a functional midfield to the point where Raul Meireles would be the 3rd best midfielder Messi had ever played with in an Argentinian shirt.

Also, it's hilarious that you list 3 top class Argentinian attackers, 2 of whom play the same position. That's exactly the point. Messi, Tevez, Di Maria, Higuain, Dybala, Lisandro Lopez, etc. All these players play in the front 3. Then when you add in the ludicrous plethora of attacking mdifielders you can see how top heavy the Argentina squad has been for the past decade and a half. You listed 10 supposed central midfielders and 6 of them don't even qualify :lol: .

Obviously the Portuguese FA isn't made up of saints but the point is that arguing they're at all comparable to the Argentinian FA where half the players had to go on strike to force them to get their shit together is disingenuous at best. Stop strawmanning; no one is trying to say one FA is blameless.



Go ahead and list the top class Argentinian players from their back 5/6 who underachieved and were better than Meireles. I'll wait.
Have you ever seen Raul play? The man is as bang average as they come and thats being very very very generous to him.
 

trims

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The WC where Messi did feck all in the KO stage while scoring against Iran in the groups? Bravo

Ronaldo is the KEY player in Portugal’s best ever finishes in major competitions.

Euro 04 Final (3 goals including one in the semi final)

16 Champions with him being the reason we made it out of the groups. Semi final goal, his shot caused the winning goal vs Croatia etc.

Please let’s not compare international Careers cause it’s a landslide win for Ronaldo.
He assisted Di maria's goal against Switzerland in R16 with a solo run, broke the record for most chances created, and got MOTM. He also pre-assisted Higuain's goal against Belgium in the Quarters.

The goal against Iran was a last-minute goal to secure qualification. What a clutch player. Mentality.
 

Bebestation

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He assisted Di maria's goal against Switzerland in R16 with a solo run, broke the record for most chances created, and got MOTM. He also pre-assisted Higuain's goal against Belgium in the Quarters.

The goal against Iran was a last-minute goal to secure qualification. What a clutch player. Mentality.

This?
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Have you ever seen Raul play? The man is as bang average as they come and thats being very very very generous to him.
Of course I have. And again, that's exactly the point. He is an entirely average player and still is better than the vast majority of the players Messi had to deal with on an international level.
 

trims

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Interesting how the Xavi and Iniesta thing is brought up but it's overlooked that Ronaldo's CL success at Madrid came only with Kroos and Modric (The only person to win Balon d'Or in the last 12 years apart from Messi and Ronaldo).

Ronaldo spent his first 4 years at Madrid with only a La Liga and Copa Del Rey to show for it. Between 2013 -2018, the only season that Real failed to reach the final was 2014-15 when Modric was injured.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Interesting how the Xavi and Iniesta thing is brought up but it's overlooked that Ronaldo's CL success at Madrid came only with Kroos and Modric (The only person to win Balon d'Or in the last 12 years apart from Messi and Ronaldo).

Ronaldo spent his first 4 years at Madrid with only a La Liga and Copa Del Rey to show for it. Between 2013 -2018, the only season that Real failed to reach the final was 2014-15 when Modric was injured.
But apparently they're not the greatest players of all time and therefore it's Ronaldo who made them better obviously!!! /s
 

Bebestation

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Interesting how the Xavi and Iniesta thing is brought up but it's overlooked that Ronaldo's CL success at Madrid came only with Kroos and Modric (The only person to win Balon d'Or in the last 12 years apart from Messi and Ronaldo).

Ronaldo spent his first 4 years at Madrid with only a La Liga and Copa Del Rey to show for it. Between 2013 -2018, the only season that Real failed to reach the final was 2014-15 when Modric was injured.
Cough. Carrick, Hargreaves, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson.
 

footballistic orgasm

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I can think on a few as they're not the same type of player. To summarize I think Ronaldo is more direct on attack and his attributes would make a better striket than Messi, in theory at least. He's a better header, has more powerful shots, he can strike with both legs and he's a better crosser. As for Messi I'd say he's the absolutely all time best when it comes to his balance and his close control on tight spaces. There's a lot more than that going for either of them but like I said they have different styles with both being very effective in their respective roles.
As for Ronaldo having a more powerful shot, hasn't Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo from outside the penalty surface though? And doesn't Messi have a better conversion rate than Ronaldo also?
There are things that Ronaldo great at and better than Messi without the ball, but with the ball at their feet, Messi is straight up better. And at the end of the day, we're talking about football here aren't we?
 

Camara

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Ronaldo gets to play competitive games against the likes of Luxembourg, Lithuana, Latvia, Andorra, Faroe Islands, Armenia, Estonia - these minnows who rank outside the top 100 in the fifa rankings make up over a 1/3rd of Ronaldo's international goal tally.

Messi's average international opponent is ranked #35 whereas Ronaldo's is ranked #52.

Here's a good breakdown of their international careers
https://michelacosta.com/en/lionel-messi-cristiano-ronaldo-at-international-level/
Comparing FIFA rankings across different confederations says very little. They mostly play against different nations.

Even if you remove the minnows from both sides Ronaldo still scored more than Messi and more in competitive games.
In competitive games vs the strong teams there's no discussion at all. Messi never scored a single competitive goal vs Brazil (!), Portugal, Spain, France, Germany, Netherlands or Belgium.
The strongest team Messi scored against in Copa America is Paraguay.
The strongest team Messi scored against in the WC is Serbia-Montenegro.
The strongest team Messi scored in competitive is Uruguay, and always in the WC qualifiers, never in Copa America.

Ronaldo scored against Spain, Netherlands and Belgium in competitive games but never scored in competitive against Brazil, Argentina, France and Germany.
The strongest team Ronaldo scored against in the Euro is Netherlands (in 2 different occasions).
The strongest team Ronaldo scored against in he WC is Spain.

Here is an (outdated) explanation of this: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/mes...-salt-allowance.400526/page-505#post-24947889

Sidenote: minnows Luxembourg drew in Paris 0-0 in a competitive game just before the 2018 WC (where France won).
 

Camara

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Banega is a number 10. Mascherano is the one midfielder better than Meireles. Lo Celso is an attacking midfielder and isn't actually better than Meireles. Riquelme was past it when he overlapped with Messi and was an attacking midfielder, Lucho Gonzalez was never as good as Meireles, Cambiasso is a good shout and the one I forgot, Pablo Aimar was a 10, Fernando Gago was nowhere near as good as Meireles, Veron was past it when Messi came into the team, Pastore is a 10, Enzo Perez was nowhere close to Meireles. Di Maria isn't a central midfielder either.

All you've done is proven my point. Argentina have had an absurd number of attacking midfielders, strikers, and wingers and no one who can complete a functional midfield to the point where Raul Meireles would be the 3rd best midfielder Messi had ever played with in an Argentinian shirt.

Also, it's hilarious that you list 3 top class Argentinian attackers, 2 of whom play the same position. That's exactly the point. Messi, Tevez, Di Maria, Higuain, Dybala, Lisandro Lopez, etc. All these players play in the front 3. Then when you add in the ludicrous plethora of attacking mdifielders you can see how top heavy the Argentina squad has been for the past decade and a half. You listed 10 supposed central midfielders and 6 of them don't even qualify :lol: .

Obviously the Portuguese FA isn't made up of saints but the point is that arguing they're at all comparable to the Argentinian FA where half the players had to go on strike to force them to get their shit together is disingenuous at best. Stop strawmanning; no one is trying to say one FA is blameless.



Go ahead and list the top class Argentinian players from their back 5/6 who underachieved and were better than Meireles. I'll wait.
As a FC Porto fan I feel personally attacked that someone dared to say Raul Meireles was better than Lucho Gonzalez.

So, let's compare with the portuguese midfielders: Raul Meireles, Pedro Mendes, Ruben Amorim, Miguel Veloso, William Carvalho, Adrien Silva, Tiago, Moutinho, Manuel Fernandes, João Mário.
Tiago never played together with Moutinho, the usual midfield was Veloso+Meireles and then another one.
This doesn't seem that outstanding compared to Mascherano/ Cambiasso or Maxi Rodriguez or Gago or Biglia or Lucho or Enzo Perez.

We can also compare the forwards, especially the strikers, but that instantaneously gives me depression.
 

Peyroteo

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Banega is a number 10. Mascherano is the one midfielder better than Meireles. Lo Celso is an attacking midfielder and isn't actually better than Meireles. Riquelme was past it when he overlapped with Messi and was an attacking midfielder, Lucho Gonzalez was never as good as Meireles, Cambiasso is a good shout and the one I forgot, Pablo Aimar was a 10, Fernando Gago was nowhere near as good as Meireles, Veron was past it when Messi came into the team, Pastore is a 10, Enzo Perez was nowhere close to Meireles. Di Maria isn't a central midfielder either.
Ronaldo won the Champions League in Madrid with Di Maria playing central midfielder in a midfield 3. Banega is a what now?? If he doesn't count as a central midfielder then noone does.

Lucho was never better than Meireles? What in the world? :eek: They literally played together for years at Porto and he was twice the player. Enzo Perez nowhere close to Meireles??? He was so much better while at Benfica it's not even close, was by far the best midfielder in the league then ahead of the likes of William Carvalho who's been a starter for us. I'm starting to wonder if you've even seen the players you're talking about play.

I'm sorry but that's such a ridiculous claim. Meireles wouldn't have even been called up for Argentina for most of the time he was a starter for us. For Euro 2012 and the 2014 WC he was playing in Turkey and fighting for a place in the team with freaking Ruben Micael, Custodio and Ruben Amorim ffs

Also, it's hilarious that you list 3 top class Argentinian attackers, 2 of whom play the same position. That's exactly the point. Messi, Tevez, Di Maria, Higuain, Dybala, Lisandro Lopez, etc. All these players play in the front 3. Then when you add in the ludicrous plethora of attacking mdifielders you can see how top heavy the Argentina squad has been for the past decade and a half. You listed 10 supposed central midfielders and 6 of them don't even qualify :lol: .
Better to be a top heavy squad than to not be heavy anywhere. World class front 3 plus a bunch of incredible attacking midfielders, that's 4 positions sorted with decent options everywhere else.

If I pretend Bruno Fernandes is just an attacking midfielder like you'd do and that he can't play as a CM then how many world class midfielders have we had?? Zero? At least Argentina had Mascherano for a decade. How many above average midfielders have we had? 1 in Moutinho?

The last problem Argentina have had for the Messi era has been the quality of their squad, Messi had a better squad around him internationally literally every single year of his career until 2018. Perfect example of the difference between Portugal and Argentina is seeing how Marcos Acuña just had a better season than Danilo, Danilo is starting for us with great performances while Acuña will barely be considered for Argentina. Why do you think that is?
 
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