Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[11101]

It's becoming quite easy to decide for me.

They've both got an equal record in Spain. Any differences can be explained away by seasonal nuances like new coaches, better teammates, and so on. They were virtually level the whole time so you can almost forget what they did there.

The greatest players perform wherever they go. Maradona and Pele have shone on every stage. Ronaldo has achieved on every stage but whether he has shone is a little more debatable, as is the quality of all the stages. Messi on the other hand has only had one opportunity (with Argentina) and largely failed to deliver.

They've both got big opportunities to cement their legacies now. The order for me goes:

1. Ronaldo league title
2. Ronaldo Champions League
3. Messi Champions League
4. Ronaldo FA Cup

If either of them can win any of those things, whoever gets highest up the list determines the best player. Messi simply has to win the CL in Paris to stay in contention.

 

[Black Adder]

April according to @Daysleeper

First time hearing this.

 

[Zehner]

For a thread about the better football player, there sure are very few arguments about actual football. This discussion reads as if the two played in the 20swith little to no footage and we now have to derive who was better from stat sheets, trophy cabinet and transfer history. There are hundreds of hours of video footage out there but people prefer to superficially discuss challenges and mind sets as if they were Instagram coaches.

 

[Marwood]

It's becoming quite easy to decide for me.

They've both got an equal record in Spain. Any differences can be explained away by seasonal nuances like new coaches, better teammates, and so on. They were virtually level the whole time so you can almost forget what they did there.

The greatest players perform wherever they go. Maradona and Pele have shone on every stage. Ronaldo has achieved on every stage but whether he has shone is a little more debatable, as is the quality of all the stages. Messi on the other hand has only had one opportunity (with Argentina) and largely failed to deliver.

They've both got big opportunities to cement their legacies now. The order for me goes:

1. Ronaldo league title
2. Ronaldo Champions League
3. Messi Champions League
4. Ronaldo FA Cup

If either of them can win any of those things, whoever gets highest up the list determines the best player. Messi simply has to win the CL in Paris to stay in contention.

Between the two squads there's about another 35 players involved in determining those 4 outcomes you've listed. So many variables. You can't possibly use them to judge one player.

Guys if you haven't made your minds up at this stage you never will.

 

[11101]

Between the two squads there's about another 35 players involved in determining those 4 outcomes you've listed. So many variables. You can't possibly use them to judge one player.

Guys if you haven't made your minds up at this stage you never will.

Yes, and almost none of them have changed from last season where none of those things happened. So if either player can come in and be a key part of achieving one of them, its a huge tick in their favour.

For me I know what Ronaldo brings. Can he do it at 36 I'm not sure but it will be impressive if he can. My doubt about Messi has always been around how well he can do outside the Barcelona system. Now he can show it.

 

[Bole Top]

For a thread about the better football player, there sure are very few arguments about actual football.

because in general even Ronaldo fans and Portuguese posters admit Messi is simply better and more talented player (majority of them, not all obviously). so when you put actual football discussions aside, what can you really debate about other than what is being repeated across 600 pages? their teammates, strenghts and rankings of their teams, rankings of the leagues they play in, individual awards etc. I mean, there's not much to debate if you leave out the actual football. it's bizzare, but it is how it is.

 

[tenpoless]

Barca fans defending Messi like their own child when he has fecked Barca over financially and joined the club that stole Neymar from them is very weird. One of the stupidest arguments revolves around Ronaldo never choosing United and the Premier League therefore he doesnt really want the challenge, which at best, is paper talks. But some believe it like its a religion. At this point this is just a battle of fanboism.

 

[RedRonaldo]

For a thread about the better football player, there sure are very few arguments about actual football. This discussion reads as if the two played in the 20swith little to no footage and we now have to derive who was better from stat sheets, trophy cabinet and transfer history. There are hundreds of hours of video footage out there but people prefer to superficially discuss challenges and mind sets as if they were Instagram coaches.

Because aside from pure footballing, there is also "competitive" side of the game (ie impact the game, winning the game, winning trophies and breaking/setting records etc), since football is also a competitive sports, aside from the entertaining factor. IMO Messi has always been the better footballer on pure footballing side, but on competitive side, they are actually very close and still very much debatable.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

because in general even Ronaldo fans and Portuguese posters admit Messi is simply better and more talented player (majority of them, not all obviously)

I don’t think the poll would be that close if this was true.

 

[Cal?]

another clueless, Ronaldo fan. You surely must know Messi already won 6 Ballon D'Ors vs Ronaldo's 5, and he will get his 7th this year..

You do realize that they vote for more than the winner? The fact is Ronaldo has received more votes than Messi in many more years than vice versa.

 

[Oly Francis]

I don’t think the poll would be that close if this was true.

Ronaldo is loosing a poll. On a united forum. It should tell you plenty.

On top of that it was less close before Ronaldo re-signed.

 

[Cal?]

Yet, Juve (the top team of "superior" Serie A) with Ronaldo lost to Lyon (France), Ajax (Holland), 10-man Porto in three previous CL runs)) How do you explain that?

That’s what makes football interesting, otherwise you may as well hand out trophies to the huge best rated teams before each season begins.

I guess Messi fans would prefer if football wasn’t based on results but based on ratings

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Using trophies and stats to decide who is better is not a great way of determining who is better. Other wise plenty of lesser players can be seen as better than players clearly better.

Like in Basketball, Bill Russel has the NBA Championships, Kareem has the most points in NBA history and the most MVP awards. Wilt Chamberlain has the most points in a game and probably the best records of any player.

Yet most players past and present and most NBA fans still see Jordan as the best/greatest of all time, why? Because just watching him play shows you why he is the best of all time.

A bit like Messi and Ronaldo. Just watching them play, you can see that Messi is the better footballer

 

[Bole Top]

I don’t think the poll would be that close if this was true.

you would be wrong then. there's plenty of posters that admit that Messi is simply better player, but they value "____" more. (whatever that is, in most cases they mention mentality/leadership/playing in different leagues etc)

 

[Cal?]

Some hilarious takes in here, no more so than @Pickle85 trying to claim he doesn't give an opinion on who's better when it's clear as day with his posts how much he prefers Ronaldo.

Also hilarious seeing the biggest Ronaldo fanboy ever, strangely not @Cal? who would pick Ronaldo over his own family and talked about his 'son' and supporting him else go on about 111 goals > 74.

Let's deal with important factors.

Ronaldo has played 29 more times for his country, that is one big factor in why he has 35 more International goals. Messi also has 11 more assists than Ronaldo whilst playing 35 games less.

Ronaldo also has the luxury of upping his goal scoring against some of the worst part time pub standard sides like Andorra etc.

Andorra: 6
Armenia: 5
Azerbaijan: 2
Cyprus: 2
Estonia: 4
Faroe Islands: 4
Kazakhstan: 2
Iran: 1
Israel: 1
Latvia: 5
Lithuania: 7
Luxembourg: 6
New Zealand: 1
Northern Ireland: 3
North Korea: 1
Saudi Arabia: 2

52 International goals against utter garbage. Could easily add in ROI(2 goals) to that considering how absolute garbage a side they currently are, losing to Luxembourg at home!

Messi has upped his account against gash, but it's about 4 times a lesser amount when you look at who he's scored against.

Also it's 100% debatable that Portugal's Euros is greater than Argentina winning the Copa America IN BRAZIL when Brazil have won it every time it's held there. But aye finishing 3rd in a weak group stage with 3 draws and winning ONE game in 90 minutes was without question superior...

Messi brigade and analyzing opponents

I can’t be bothered to look for it, but didn’t Messi stat-pad a lot in La Liga in recent years against the weaker sides whilst struggling against the better sides?

As for internationals:

Bolivia, Guatemala, Haiti, Panama, Nicaragua, Hong Kong!!

Total
Ecuador	6​
Bolivia	5​
Brazil	5​
Chile	5​
Paraguay	5​
Uruguay	5​
Venezuela	4​
Colombia	3​
Guatemala	3​
Haiti	3​
Mexico	3​
Nigeria	3​
Panama	3​
Switzerland	3​
Algeria	2​
Croatia	2​
Hong Kong	2​
Nicaragua	2​
Spain	2​
Albania	1​
Bosnia and Herzegovina	1​
France	1​
Germany	1​
Iran	1​
Peru	1​
Portugal	1​
Serbia and Montenegro	1​
Slovenia	1​
United States	1​

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

you would be wrong then. there's plenty of posters that admit that Messi is simply better player, but they value "____" more. (whatever that is, in most cases they mention mentality/leadership/playing in different leagues etc)

Who are all the 44% then if not Ronaldo fans and Portugal fans?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ronaldo is loosing a poll. On a united forum. It should tell you plenty.

On top of that it was less close before Ronaldo re-signed.

I'm not arguing anything expect the idea that the majority of Portugal and Ronaldo fans actually think Messi is better, the poll here surely wouldn't be 44% if true. I think it was what? 42% before he re-signed?

 

[Cal?]

That’s what makes football interesting, otherwise you may as well hand out trophies to the huge best rated teams before each season begins.

I guess Messi fans would prefer if football wasn’t based on results but based on ratings

This poll was rigged by some idiot years ago. Everyone knows it, just that the Messi brigade pretend they don’t

 

[Bole Top]

I'm not arguing anything expect the idea that the majority of Portugal and Ronaldo fans actually think Messi is better, the poll here surely wouldn't be 44% if true.

you do realize you can see Messi as better footballer yet still be in CR camp and vote for him? plenty of posters share that view, nothing controversial in that.

 

[Zehner]

Because aside from pure footballing, there is also "competitive" side of the game (ie impact the game, winning the game, winning trophies and breaking/setting records etc), since football is also a competitive sports, aside from the entertaining factor. IMO Messi has always been the better footballer on pure footballing side, but on competitive side, they are actually very close and still very much debatable.

Nothing to do with entertainment.

The irony is that you guys look on trophies so much but then criticize moves that aren't ambitious enough. Your criteria favor player who just choose the easiest career path that leads to most titles and then you go on and criticize players if their move doesn't pose the biggest challenge on all levels or if their teams are stacked with other good individuals. You constantly get lost in double stamdards and the reason for that is that you choose to go with metrics which you know are unfit to base conclusions on.

 

[FriendlyFox]

Messi is definitely the better player. Not really a contest.

"Who is the better goal scorer" would be a more even question, but no doubt Messi is the best player overall (or was, they're both past their peak now).

 

[tenpoless]

The irony is that you guys look on trophies so much but then criticize moves that aren't ambitious enough. Your criteria favor player who just choose the easiest career path that leads to most titles and then you go on and criticize players if their move doesn't pose the biggest challenge on all levels or if their teams are stacked with other good individuals. You constantly get lost in double stamdards and the reason for that is that you choose to go with metrics which you know are unfit to base conclusions on.

Thats like elementary school level of analysis. Surely you know when people say ambition or challenge, they mean its harder to win a domestic trophy in england than france.

 

[NasirTimothy]

For a thread about the better football player, there sure are very few arguments about actual football. This discussion reads as if the two played in the 20swith little to no footage and we now have to derive who was better from stat sheets, trophy cabinet and transfer history. There are hundreds of hours of video footage out there but people prefer to superficially discuss challenges and mind sets as if they were Instagram coaches.

Sadly yes. This is what football discussion has become. For me if you actually watch them play and you have one player who’s an elite scorer and another who is an elite scorer and and elite creator at the same time, to a degree that we’ve literally never seen before except for maybe with one other guy, then it’s pretty obvious who the better player is. But people will believe whatever they want to believe.

I mean if it’s just about counting up goals and trophies then why is Wayne Rooney not a better player than George Best? At some point actually watching football has to come into it.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Thats like elementary school level of analysis. Surely you know when people say ambition or challenge, they mean its harder to win a domestic trophy in england than france.

But what has that got to do with who the better player is? This is what confuses me. If you think that Ronaldo is a better player then fine. It's baffling but each to their own and all that. But bringing in teams and leagues to the discussion is just pointless obfuscation.

To put it another way, winning a single league title with Leicester is more of a challenge than winning multiple Champions Leagues with Real Madrid but I don't think that makes Mahrez a better player than Ronaldo.

 

[Zehner]

Thats like elementary school level of analysis. Surely you know when people say ambition or challenge, they mean its harder to win a domestic trophy in england than france.

So? You could as well call Messi more ambitious because he's joining a team with Neymar, Mbappe and Di Maria in it. Cristiano might find it hard to earn a starting spot at PSG these days so you could as well argue that Messi challenged himself more and Cristiano took the easy route by choosing to displace Martial or Cavani. Also, is Maradona more ambitious than Cristiano because he chose to spend his best years with a second tier club? If so, then why are we looking at team trophies at all?

These are all just strawman arguments. The very opposite of insightful since everybody can understand them, even people who never kicked a football in their life. Would be much more interesting if the topic was the actual sport that both players participate in.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Nothing to do with entertainment.

The irony is that you guys look on trophies so much but then criticize moves that aren't ambitious enough. Your criteria favor player who just choose the easiest career path that leads to most titles and then you go on and criticize players if their move doesn't pose the biggest challenge on all levels or if their teams are stacked with other good individuals. You constantly get lost in double stamdards and the reason for that is that you choose to go with metrics which you know are unfit to base conclusions on.

Personally I don't really mind Messi moving to France at this stage of his career, he is 34 afterall and he has won it all in Spain. Just that Ronaldo moving to PL at 36 is more admirable than Messi moving to French league at 34, comparatively speaking. Understandably all he wants at this stage of his career is to win CL one more time, PSG does present him such good opportunities (and match his asking salary too). If he wins it again, would definitely be a success for him. If he fails, I don't think it matters much, as he has already done everything he could at club level while winning CL is never easy. But truth is, winning more domestic trophies at a farmers league (currently ranked 6th, even lower than Portuguese league!) wouldn't add any more to his legacy at all, it will be equivalent to players moving to MLS at their retiring years picking up micky trophies. So his only challenge left is to win the CL.

Whereas Ronaldo case now is totally different, moving to the toughest league in the world for a team who hasn't won a title in past 8 years, nor any trophy at all win over past 4 years. His challenge would be winning PL title, and anything else is a plus. if he wins the PL for us again, it would definitely be a success, and would definitely add more to his legacy.

And lets just switch their situation, and lets say if Messi moves to Man Utd instead and win PL title for us, it would be regarded as same success. If Ronaldo moves to PSG instead and wins CL, same success for him too. There's no hidden agenda or double standard here, just a very honest answer in related to their actual context.

 

[Oly Francis]

And lets just switch their situation, and lets say if Messi moves to Man Utd instead and win PL title for us, it would be regarded as same success. If Ronaldo moves to PSG instead and wins CL, same success for him too. There's no hidden agenda or double standard here, just a very honest answer in related to their actual context.

You're right but we have to see how they both act on the pitch first, giving Ronaldo legacy points for simply coming back to United before he even plays a single game like I've seen people doing here is ridiculous. They both have to deliver before we can draw any conclusion.

 

[Gehrman]

Ultimately actions speak louder than words/speculation. When it’s all said and done a 36 year old Ronaldo chose to go to the most competitive league in football for a team who hasn’t won a trophy in years and Messi decided to completely destroy his legacy by joining a state run PR project. Bite

Messi's legacy has been sealed a long time ago. City is also a state run pr project. He's the holder of every club record at Barcelona.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Sadly yes. This is what football discussion has become. For me if you actually watch them play and you have one player who’s an elite scorer and another who is an elite scorer and and elite creator at the same time, to a degree that we’ve literally never seen before except for maybe with one other guy, then it’s pretty obvious who the better player is. But people will believe whatever they want to believe.

I mean if it’s just about counting up goals and trophies then why is Wayne Rooney not a better player than George Best? At some point actually watching football has to come into it.

Well Ronaldo is not just about scoring goals. Maybe for you he is, as goals is his byproducts of impacting/winning the game. But for me he is also the best winner and most competitive footballer I've ever seen. Sure if you are viewing from the angle of how the player does with the ball in the football pitch, Ronaldo probably isn't just as good as Messi, and isn't the type of footballer for you. But if you are viewing from the angle of football as competitive sports too, Ronaldo would definitely be one of the very best competitor ever in the game of football.

 

[RedRonaldo]

You're right but we have to see how they both act on the pitch first, giving Ronaldo legacy points for simply coming back to United before he even plays a single game like I've seen people doing here is ridiculous. They both have to deliver before we can draw any conclusion.

Sure, totally agree. We shouldn't give any legacy points at this current stage, both of them have to earn it on the pitch and throughout the season.

 

[Gehrman]

Even Scholes, Giggs and rooney choose Messi. Like Rooney said "Ronaldo is a killer in the box, but Messi will torture you before he scores". For me there is no doubt that Ronaldo is a top 3 player of all time but he doesnt have the absolute genius of Messi or Pelé.

 

[Zehner]

Personally I don't really mind Messi moving to France at this stage of his career, he is 34 afterall and he has won it all in Spain. Just that Ronaldo moving to PL at 36 is more admirable than Messi moving to French league at 34, comparatively speaking. Understandably all he wants at this stage of his career is to win CL one more time, PSG does present him such good opportunities (and match his asking salary too). If he wins it again, would definitely be a success for him. If he fails, I don't think it matters much, as he has already done everything he could at club level while winning CL is never easy. But truth is, winning more domestic trophies at a farmers league (currently ranked 6th, even lower than Portuguese league!) wouldn't add any more to his legacy at all, it will be equivalent to players moving to MLS at their retiring years picking up micky trophies. So his only challenge left is to win the CL.

Whereas Ronaldo case now is totally different, moving to the toughest league in the world for a team who hasn't won a title in past 8 years, nor any trophy at all win over past 4 years. His challenge would be winning PL title, and anything else is a plus. if he wins the PL for us again, it would definitely be a success, and would definitely add more to his legacy.

And lets just switch their situation, and lets say if Messi moves to Man Utd instead and win PL title for us, it would be regarded as same success. If Ronaldo moves to PSG instead and wins CL, same success for him too. There's no hidden agenda or double standard here, just a very honest answer in related to their actual context.

No offence but I don't care about any of this and think these kind of arguments aren't only irrelevant but also very boring.

 

[Rojow]

So much talking when most people who knows about football recognize Messi as the best player. That's a fact and will be a fact when they both retire and you look at their video compilations. Time will tell.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Well Ronaldo is not just about scoring goals. Maybe for you he is, as goals is his byproducts of impacting/winning the game. But for me he is also the best winner and most competitive footballer I've ever seen. Sure if you are viewing from the angle of how the player does with the ball in the football pitch, Ronaldo probably isn't just as good as Messi, and isn't the type of footballer for you. But if you are viewing from the angle of football as competitive sports too, Ronaldo would definitely be one of the very best competitor ever in the game of football.

Logically, that’s the only angle you should view it from. You can’t say one guy is a better ‘winner’ than another guy because winning depends mostly on the team. That’s why George Best is a better player than Wayne Rooney despite having won less.

When people talk about Ronaldo not winning the World Cup (or even scoring a goal or registering an assist in the KO rounds), then his fans suddenly realise it’s a team game. You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.

 

[Acrobat7]

They've both got an equal record in Spain. Any differences can be explained away by seasonal nuances like new

By what metric do they have an equal record in Spain?

 

[Dancfc]

Ronaldo has done it in the hardest league once and hes now back hes done it everywhere else hes been. Messi has only been at Barca and is now in a really poor league I wish Messi had gone to City then we would really see if hes as good as he was in Barca and most likely PSG. If Ronaldo does it again in the Prem hes the clear winner for me.

On that basis Mourinho and Pep are clear of Fergie.

The greatest is the greatest whether they've played in 1 league or 50.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Even Scholes, Giggs and rooney choose Messi. Like Rooney said "Ronaldo is a killer in the box, but Messi will torture you before he scores". For me there is no doubt that Ronaldo is a top 3 player of all time but he doesnt have the absolute genius of Messi or Pelé.

Keano is in the Ronaldo camp, though.

(I think - didn't he call him the greatest in the Neville interview?).

SAF too, I would imagine (never heard him actually say it - but you'd think so).

And Ole (he wasn't just massaging Ron's ego - he genuinely believes he's the GOAT, of course).

 

[Daysleeper]

Imagine being so dumb to think I’ve even discussed this with you or anyone
You’ve clearly allowed this teenage Messi crush to utterly scramble your brain, you can’t even keep track of what you’re discussing. You’re claiming “indisputable facts” about stuff you have no inside knowledge on, you’re claiming a speculative quite frankly ludicrous click bait article on a football website is proof of something.
You’ve absolutely lost it, take a breather, Messi plays elsewhere now.

You are beyond clueless, but sure keep drinking the kool aid.

grow up

 

[FK201617]

Keano is in the Ronaldo camp, though.

(I think - didn't he call him the greatest in the Neville interview?).

SAF too, I would imagine (never heard him actually say it - but you'd think so).

And Ole (he wasn't just massaging Ron's ego - he genuinely believes he's the GOAT, of course).

Keano is in the Ronaldo camp, though.

(I think - didn't he call him the greatest in the Neville interview?).

SAF too, I would imagine (never heard him actually say it - but you'd think so).

And Ole (he wasn't just massaging Ron's ego - he genuinely believes he's the GOAT, of course).

Among former or current Manchester united players, AFAIK
Beckham, Scholes, Giggs , Rooney, Rashford and Greenwood choose Messi.

 

[Polar]

Sorry guys, but It has to be Messi. Best player
of all time, at least the player with most extreme skills.