Mesut Özil retires from "die Mannschaft"

Hellboy

Full Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Messages
17,494
Location
Heaven on earth
Can't believe that piece of shit Hoeneß is now also jumping in. Definitely the moral authority needed here. Amusing how he (and the rest who're jumping on the "He's been playing shit anyway" ship) never mention someone like Muller who's been dogshit for the NT for quite a while.
You know why !
 

ThatsGreat

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
1,649
Supports
Arsenal
Going by this thread, Arsenal should have a lot of new Pakistani fans :lol:. Both the DFB and Ozil could've handled it better. As an arsenal fan I'm happy that Ozil doesn't have any international distraction any longer.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

Dutchman, who could have chosen any tagline.
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,733
Location
Reading a novel in the class of '92
So one blimp on a press conference caught by Russia Today of all sources suddenly proves the US was training ISIS despite there not being any further evidence of this? :lol:
Your are changing the goalposts now. Your first reply was a request of WORDS which would serve as evidence that the USA were training ISIL forces. Does the source matter if these are verbatim words? This was from a full press conference and many videos from other sources were DELETED from YouTube.

So, you dont believe Obama when he stated and admitted that under his reign they were training ISIL forces in Iraq?

...
 

NoLogo

Full Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
19,750
Location
I can't remember why I joined this war.
Khedira is finished, but there's no reason for the others to retire and they won't.
Do you seriously expect any of those to get better in 4 years? I don't. They are all players who have basically won every trophy that there is to win, non of them seemed in any shape motivated at the world cup and if we start forming a new team, why not now? Get rid of the old guard and build a team that will be able to properly compete in 2022, we pretty much did the same team when we rebuild in 2006, give the young players the chance to learn at the international stage early on and don't drag the old guard, who clearly has a motivational problem, through until the next world cup.
 

fcbforever

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Merkellandia, the land of silent horrors
Supports
FC Bayern München
Do you seriously expect any of those to get better in 4 years? I don't. They are all players who have basically won every trophy that there is to win, non of them seemed in any shape motivated at the world cup and if we start forming a new team, why not now? Get rid of the old guard and build a team that will be able to properly compete in 2022, we pretty much did the same team when we rebuild in 2006, give the young players the chance to learn at the international stage early on and don't drag the old guard, who clearly has a motivational problem, through until the next world cup.
Who knows? And the next tournament is in 2 years, not 4. And even in 2006, we carried on with a lot of guys from 2002. Schneider, Ballack, Frings, Metzelder etc, went on to play for years, some of the older guard were at least used in 2006, like Kahn, Lehmann, Nowotny and others. Axing players just forthe sake of it would be stupid. If they don't perform, don't nominate them, but we shouldn't rob ourselves of assets deliberately.
 

hasanejaz88

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
5,815
Location
Munich
Supports
Germany
Going by this thread, Arsenal should have a lot of new Pakistani fans :lol:. Both the DFB and Ozil could've handled it better. As an arsenal fan I'm happy that Ozil doesn't have any international distraction any longer.
F*ck Arsenal.

Yours sincerely,

A Pakistani-Canadian dual national :D
 

JuveGER

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
2,681
Location
Germany
Supports
Juventus
Alright then.


0:10 Obama blatantly admits that under his reign the USA were training ISIL forces in Iraq. So, the extremist groups who are/were portrayed as the extremist 'bad guys' were trained by the nation(s) who classified them as such? ..

...
Now this is just stupid. It's obvious from the context of the speech that he misspoke. A look at the full press conference reveals that volunteers are trained to fight against ISIL. He misspoke, it happens. It's no "admission" of anything. Don't embarass yourself.
 

hasanejaz88

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
5,815
Location
Munich
Supports
Germany
Do you seriously expect any of those to get better in 4 years? I don't. They are all players who have basically won every trophy that there is to win, non of them seemed in any shape motivated at the world cup and if we start forming a new team, why not now? Get rid of the old guard and build a team that will be able to properly compete in 2022, we pretty much did the same team when we rebuild in 2006, give the young players the chance to learn at the international stage early on and don't drag the old guard, who clearly has a motivational problem, through until the next world cup.
I can understand wanting Hummels, Khedira, Muller and Boateng but why include Kroos there? He has to be the person through which Germany has to rebuild themselves. He is still a great player.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

Dutchman, who could have chosen any tagline.
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,733
Location
Reading a novel in the class of '92
Your are changing the goalposts now. Your first reply was a request of WORDS which would serve as evidence that the USA were training ISIL forces. Does the source matter if these are verbatim words? This was from a full press conference and many videos from other sources were DELETED from YouTube.

So, you dont believe Obama when he stated and admitted that under his reign they were training ISIL forces in Iraq?

...
Now this is just stupid. It's obvious from the context of the speech that he misspoke. A look at the full press conference reveals that volunteers are trained to fight against ISIL. He misspoke, it happens. It's no "admission" of anything. Don't embarass yourself.
Just as Trump mispoke in Helsinki right?

Did Hillary also mispoke when Al Aqaida rebels were financed in Libya to overthrow Khadafi? The same Al Qaida who were responsible for 911?
 

Zehner

Football Statistics Dork
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
7,984
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Just as Trump mispoke in Helsinki right?

Did Hillary also mispoke when Al Aqaida rebels were financed in Libya to overthrow Khadafi? The same Al Qaida who were responsible for 911?
Sadly not the same.
 

fcbforever

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Merkellandia, the land of silent horrors
Supports
FC Bayern München
Just as Trump mispoke in Helsinki right?

Did Hillary also mispoke when Al Aqaida rebels were financed in Libya to overthrow Khadafi? The same Al Qaida who were responsible for 911?
Context matters, although it doesn't matter to you at all it seems. No point in discussin with you any further, enjoy watching Russia today.
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,172
There are arguably many reasons to dislike Erdogan but part of me is sure his treatment of journalists is the major reason he's portrayed as he is (as people have suggested, he was seemingly considered a benign figure prior to 2016).
Erdogan and the AKP were lauded for years in the West as they were seen as a model of Islamist democracy which could potentially provide solutions to the dysfunctional politics of the wider Islamic world. It was the Gezi Park protests in 2013 which really brought this to an end, and then the Turkish facilitation of the growth of ISIS in northern Syria which consolidated the new view of Erdogan. The post-coup ‘coup’ only confirmed this new image of Erdogan as dictator.

Erdogan is not at this point a dictator in the classic 20th century mould. But that’s more due to the restrictions the reality of the Turkish political system has placed on him than any democratic inclinations he holds. He has been implementing a long-term plan for years to subjugate all independent bodies of authority - whether the media, the military or the judiciary - under his personal control. But these institutions have very long histories of robust independence which means Erdogan has had to move extremely cautiously and slowly - he has the perfect example of what can happen when you try to implement this process too quickly in the fate of Morsi in Egypt.
 

JuveGER

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
2,681
Location
Germany
Supports
Juventus
Just as Trump mispoke in Helsinki right?
Not the same at all. It's obvious that Obama misspoke, because what he said doesn't make any sense otherwise in the context of the press conference. Trump's original words, however, make perfect sense in the context of what has said previously. His "adjusted" words make less sense. So, different things.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

Dutchman, who could have chosen any tagline.
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,733
Location
Reading a novel in the class of '92
Not the same at all. It's obvious that Obama misspoke, because what he said doesn't make any sense otherwise in the context of the press conference. Trump's original words, however, make perfect sense in the context of what has said previously. His "adjusted" words make less sense. So, different things.
And you conveniently missed the part in my comment about Hillary- during her reign admittedly aiding al Qaida rebels to overthrow Khadafi. The same group responsible for 911?.. :nono:
 

The Purley King

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
4,227
As an outsider to this discussion, to sum it up:
Germany in general thinks Erdogan is bad, he has called them Nazis + other stuff to do with his election
Ozil, who is German, meets Erdogan in London, has his picture taken with him and signs a shirt with the words "For my President"
Can refuses to meet Erdogan and Gundogan subsequently states he didn't mean the photo to be a political endorsement and he "honours German values 100%"
Germany and Ozil stink out Russia and go out in the group stage
Ozil resigns from the team saying he is discriminated against (paraphrasing)

Ozil is incredibly naive to think that his actions wouldn't piss off the German public. The word "my" on the shirt is pretty telling. He has an opportunity to clarify the situation like Gundogan did, but doesn't, implying that he did mean the photo to be a political endorsement of someone his country hates.
I'm not sure if Ozil is just completely ignorant of how he comes across and is pretty innocent or whether he does actually support Erdogan or not. Either way its best for all concerned that he retires from international football.
 

Zehner

Football Statistics Dork
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
7,984
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Khedira is finished, but there's no reason for the others to retire and they won't.
Müller isn't finished?

Still completely beyond me how any sane person with functioning eyes can criticize the key pass machine Özil and ignore the absolutely shambolic performances Thomas Müller shows game after game after game. Hard to not see underlying racism here. If Özil had performed the way Müller did all the German Stammtischhelden would want him to be executed.

When I read the comments in social media currently, I've got to admit I feel ashamed for being German and the strong need to apologize. This whole story is simply embarassing.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

Dutchman, who could have chosen any tagline.
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,733
Location
Reading a novel in the class of '92
Context matters, although it doesn't matter to you at all it seems. No point in discussin with you any further, enjoy watching Russia today.
So it was only a coincidence that Syria and Assad turned the tables on the 'moderate' rebels (media friendly name for Isis and Alqaida (and their affiliated branches) when Russia intervened? Words from Assad when he stated that Russia are in fact fighting the rebels in stead of the USA and its allies also ought to be deemed as untrustworthy?..

aiding/funding rebels is not a brand new proxy strategy you do know this right? Who funded Al qaida during the sovjet invasion of Afghanistan? The former CIA head of operations admitted this but i guess verbatim words dont matter with you right?
 

JuveGER

Full Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
2,681
Location
Germany
Supports
Juventus
And you conveniently missed the part in my comment about the Hillary- during her reign admittedly aiding al Qaida rebels to overthrow Khadafi. The same group responsible for 911?.. :nono:
It wasn't there when I quoted your post. It's also not relevant to the debate at all. Whether Trump or Clinton misspoke, doesn't change the fact that Obama misspoke in the press conference. It's obvious. He talking about how the Iraqi government has been galvanised, how they are training Sunni volunteers to fight against ISIL. Why would he say in this context that the US is training ISIL? It doesn't make sense and it's completely obvious even from the conveniently edited RT video and even more if you look at the original.
 

Ainu

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
10,130
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
Can't believe that piece of shit Hoeneß is now also jumping in. Definitely the moral authority needed here. Amusing how he (and the rest who're jumping on the "He's been playing shit anyway" ship) never mention someone like Muller who's been dogshit for the NT for quite a while.
It's extremely distasteful, I don't know what the general reaction to these quotes by Hoeness is in Germany, but I hope he gets ripped apart for them. I've always thought people in such lofty positions have a responsibility to appear moderate and nuanced in public, but here he is joining the bandwagon singling out a player like a pack of hungry vultures. Özil hasn't played well for Germany in recent years but ffs judging by those reactions you'd think he committed a crime against humanity. This is a disturbing episode for German football and people like Hoeness are only adding to the mess.
 

RyRoc

Full Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
1,120
Location
Kingston
As an outsider to this discussion, to sum it up:
Germany in general thinks Erdogan is bad, he has called them Nazis + other stuff to do with his election
Ozil, who is German, meets Erdogan in London, has his picture taken with him and signs a shirt with the words "For my President"
Can refuses to meet Erdogan and Gundogan subsequently states he didn't mean the photo to be a political endorsement and he "honours German values 100%"
Germany and Ozil stink out Russia and go out in the group stage
Ozil resigns from the team saying he is discriminated against (paraphrasing)

Ozil is incredibly naive to think that his actions wouldn't piss off the German public. The word "my" on the shirt is pretty telling. He has an opportunity to clarify the situation like Gundogan did, but doesn't, implying that he did mean the photo to be a political endorsement of someone his country hates.
I'm not sure if Ozil is just completely ignorant of how he comes across and is pretty innocent or whether he does actually support Erdogan or not. Either way its best for all concerned that he retires from international football.
That's simply not true. It was Gundogan that signed that not Ozil.
 

fcbforever

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Merkellandia, the land of silent horrors
Supports
FC Bayern München
So it was only a coincidence that Syria and Assad turned the tables on the 'moderate' rebels (media friendly name for Isis and Alqaida (and their affiliated branches) when Russia intervened? Words from Assad when he stated that Russia are in fact fighting the rebels in stead of the USA and its allies also ought to be deemed as untrustworthy?..

aiding/funding rebels is not a brand new proxy strategy you do know this right? Who funded Al qaida during the sovjet invasion of Afghanistan? The former CIA head of operations admitted this but i guess verbatim words dont matter with you right?
Oh, educate me please! Also, what the feck does your first paragraph even mean? It doesn't make sense gramatically or in any other way, please edit or rephrase. It either seems you believe Assad (lul) or that US funding enabled Russia and Assad to fight ISIS.
 

LazyRed-Ninja

Dutchman, who could have chosen any tagline.
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,733
Location
Reading a novel in the class of '92
It wasn't there when I quoted your post. It's also not relevant to the debate at all. Whether Trump or Clinton misspoke, doesn't change the fact that Obama misspoke in the press conference. It's obvious. He talking about how the Iraqi government has been galvanised, how they are training Sunni volunteers to fight against ISIL. Why would he say in this context that the US is training ISIL? It doesn't make sense and it's completely obvious even from the conveniently edited RT video and even more if you look at the original.
It's actually very relevant considering the overall context of this discussion which centers around the geopolitical strategy of proxy wars - which entails the aiding and funding of rebels to overthrow the functioning goverment.

Russia, Assad, Trump, former CIA operatives are all on record stating that the USA under the administation of Obama were aiding and supporting 'moderate rebels ' (ISIS, Al Aqaida etc). Were all these people blatantly lying??
 

fcbforever

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Merkellandia, the land of silent horrors
Supports
FC Bayern München
Müller isn't finished?

Still completely beyond me how any sane person with functioning eyes can criticize the key pass machine Özil and ignore the absolutely shambolic performances Thomas Müller shows game after game after game. Hard to not see underlying racism here. If Özil had performed the way Müller did all the German Stammtischhelden would want him to be executed.

When I read the comments in social media currently, I've got to admit I feel ashamed for being German and the strong need to apologize. This whole story is simply embarassing.
Müller actually has put in good performances for club and country before this tournament. It's really, really simple. People can shove their "key pass" statistics up their ass, it doesn't change the fact that Özil has been MIA for a few years.
 

fellaini's barber

New Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
3,655
What do you think the reaction in England would be like if say someone like David Beckham had posed with Robert Mugabe a few years ago?
If one of his parents where from there what would be wrong. Would it be wrong if a half N. Korean brit posed with Kim?
 

LazyRed-Ninja

Dutchman, who could have chosen any tagline.
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Messages
2,733
Location
Reading a novel in the class of '92
Oh, educate me please! Also, what the feck does your first paragraph even mean? It doesn't make sense gramatically or in any other way, please edit or rephrase. It either seems you believe Assad (lul) or that US funding enabled Russia and Assad to fight ISIS.
Let us make this easier to understand.

1. Are you aware of proxy strategies? If so, good one you, if not, were you aware that they exsist?

2. Russia, Assad, Trump, former CIA operatives are on record stating that during the Obama administration, 'moderate rebels' (ISIS, Al Qaida and affiliated branches) were aided and supported through financial and weapon supply. Were these people all lying?
 

fcbforever

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Merkellandia, the land of silent horrors
Supports
FC Bayern München
It's actually very relevant considering the overall context of this discussion which centers around the geopolitical strategy of proxy wars - which entails he aiding and funding of rebels to overthrow the functioning goverment.

Russia, Assad, Trump, former CIA operatives are all on record stating that the USA under the administation of Obama were aiding and supporting 'moderate rebels ' (ISIS, Al Aqaida etc). Were all these people blatantly lying??
For the first three: Yes. You believeing them: :lol::lol::lol:. Let's trust the guy who's lying in every sentence, the master of political propaganda and the dictator who's throwing barrel bombs on hos own people. As for the last one: who knows. It is not unlikely some funding and weapons indirectly found their way to ISIS due to the muddy nature of the whole "situation". But there's zero evidence there's ever been any direct support.
 

UweBein

Creator of the Worst Analogy on the Internet.
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
3,729
Location
Köln
Supports
Chelsea
Müller actually has put in good performances for club and country before this tournament. It's really, really simple. People can shove their "key pass" statistics up their ass, it doesn't change the fact that Özil has been MIA for a few years.
I am sorry, but that is wrong. Compared to Müller, Özil played like brilliantly at the World Cup. Müller was a walking waste of space.
 

fcbforever

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Merkellandia, the land of silent horrors
Supports
FC Bayern München
Let us make this easier to understand.

1. Are you aware of proxy strategies? If so, good one you, if not, were you aware that they exsist?

2. Russia, Assad, Trump, former CIA operatives are on record stating that during the Obama administration, 'moderate rebels' (ISIS, Al Qaida and affiliated branches) were aided and supported through financial and weapon supply. Were these people all lying?
I'm extremely aware of proxy strategies in general and in Syria especially. Way more than you are especially, since Iran, the Saudis and others do not exist for you and Russia seems to be a legitimate combatant in your opinion. So let's get that out of the way.

If replied to a similar post of yours and I do not think you are worth replying to any further. If you think that Baschar al-Assad is a credible source in any way, my actual opinion of you would get me banned here.
 

fcbforever

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
4,077
Location
Merkellandia, the land of silent horrors
Supports
FC Bayern München
I am sorry, but that is wrong. Compared to Müller, Özil played like brilliantly at the World Cup. Müller was a walking waste of space.
Where have I talked about this WC? Everyone was shit there, just some a little less so and Özil was widely acknowledged to belong to the latter group. But three games doesn't mean we can ignore the 30+ before that.
 

RedPamie

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
318
The meeting with Erdogan is probably not Ozil's best decision but the treatment he got from DFB, media and some fans is a disgrace.

WTH with Uli Houness' comments? Not cool at all. If that's the case then some old guards played bad in WC should leave the national team. Give the guys like Brandt more minutes.

And reading this thread, are you guys seriously defending Trump here? In a thread about a Muslim immigrant football player being treated badly? Really?
 
Last edited:

The Purley King

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
4,227
If one of his parents where from there what would be wrong. Would it be wrong if a half N. Korean brit posed with Kim?
If, for the sake of argument, David Beckham was half Zimbabwean and had photos taken with Robert Mugabe there would have been a fecking shitstorm - and rightly so.