Discussion in 'Player Performances Forum' started by Lu Tze, Mar 16, 2014.
Few get broken in fights like Jack.
Guys, should he get a place in the line-up next year? He was so underwhelming last year, let the team down. Our maybe best player in the season 2012/2013 turned into one of our shite midfielders this season.
Time will tell. Best to wait and see if we've any additions and how he reacts to pre season. If he has 2 decent midfielders next to him, I think he could excel for another year or two.
With who we have now yeah. He was proper shite last year but he's still better than anyone who'd currently take his spot. Need to start looking for a long term replacement for him either way though.
Don't want him in the ideal starting line up. Just way too immobile and we get torn into pieces every time the opposition has a player that can run with the ball through the centre. That being said, he was probably our second best midfielder last year (after Giggs), because Cleverley and Fellaini were near useless and Fletcher was absolutely horrific at the end.
He's still the first CM on the teamsheet as our squad currently stands.
I think he'd be great as the anchor in our midfield next season, he's still only 32 so he probably has another 3 years of top football in him. The only one's who'd take the DM spot that we're linked to is Carvalho and De jong, neither would be an improvement IMO. Carvalho might be better in the future but he's way overpriced and getting him for 37 million would be a huge gamble.
wonder if van Gaal can get anything out of him.. IMO he´s too slow to face the best teams (games playing in a higher tempo) but next to herrera whos got enough legs.. those two can be our starting option in midfield next year, for the start but hope we get another midfielder, even the natural succesor for carrick is Kevin Strootman who is currently injured till october..
Have a feeling he'll be great alongside Herrera. I think we finally have midfielder who will suit him.
He was our best player against Real Madrid I remember (with Jones)
Very fe of the worlds top DMs have speed, none of Busquets, Alonso, Pirlo, Verratti etc are fast but that's not really an issue in that role. I don't think that Carrick and Strootman are very alike at all. Carrick's a defensive playmaker whilst Strootman is more of a box-to-box. If we got strootman he'd probably play ahead of a DM along with Herrera or someone else, that is if we choose to play 4-3-3.
You mean a midfielder who can score, assist, run, tackle, turn up for big games? I know there's some big fans of Carrick here but you should NEVER need someone like that next to a player in order to make the other midfielder look good. Its an incredible amount of deficiencies to have, instead of finding someone to 'compliment' a player with a plethora of weaknesses why not replace him with someone who doesn't have them? Or at least can add a little more to the partnership.
Wouldn't really say Strootman is the natural successor, in terms of playing style they're not similar.
I very much hope we sign another midfielder but would certainly keep hold of Carrick. I think we definitely will anyway with doubts over the futures of Anderson, Fellaini and Cleverley, who only has a year left on his contract left.
This still applies for me. I think with Carrick in our starting line up we'll struggle with teams playing through us (for a 3rd season running). For all of his passing merits, he's just not mobile enough and teams have figured this out a few years ago. He's still got enough quality in intercepting and passing neatly, but if the opposition have the ball and run at him then he just can't hack it. We've also suffered for a while now to try and find a partner for him, Herrera could be that partner. Or we could bring in a midfielder who have mobility to play alongside Carrick and then our midfield weakness would no longer be there. He'll still do a job for us, but I don't think he should be a first team player any longer.
Pirlo DM? just because he plays deep in formation as a deep laying playmaker doesnt make him defensive midfielder. His tackling is horrific and verrati, busquets and alonsos tackilng is different level than carricks who is more of a tidy player who reads well the game.. the reason why I compared them two carrick and strootman is I remember a carrick full of legs doing more of a box to box player.. Strootman is certainly more defensive and doesnt poses that much pace, same goes with carrick, They run about the same, still comparing young carrick and todays Strootman and both have similar faces..
Going back to todays Carrick, he isnt as good defensively as everybody says, hes decent reader of the game and has great passing thats why he deserved a lot of credit, but we actually need someone really good defensively or atleast someone who is not overrun easily.. but he still has a place in our squad untill we find a good replacement, I still think we could play him as a ball playing centreback to destroy lower-table teams..
Hoping we move on from having Carrick as a mainstay in our midfield. We've lost our ageing defence so it's time to do the same with the midfield and Carrick looked a shadow of himself last year, and at the age of 33 when the new season starts, I don't think we should be building the new look midfield around him again.
He was our player of the year two seasons ago playing alongside Cleverley. Cleverley/Fellaini were awful last year, and our whole team was awful, I don't see how could you expect him to shine. Of course he could have done better, but every player has season or two off form.
About Pirlo's position, you're splitting hairs..Either way Carrick is definitely able to play as a deep-lying playmaker just like Pirlo or Verratti who aren't that strong defensively either. In fact Carrick is probably stronger defensively than them whilst lacking some of their technique. Strootman isn't much stronger than Carrick defensively either and 6 goals and 8 assists in 25 games for Roma tell me that he participates in Roma's attacking moves more than Carrick's ever done for us. In 8 years with us he's scored 16 goals, if he was ever a box-to-box that's very little.
Well, usually the sort of midfielder which Carrick is these days are supported by two central midfielders like Pirlo most of his career, Scholes in his 06-09'self, Guardiola or Gerrard and Alonso this year.
I agree that it is probably impossible to find a partner for Carrick who can do all those jobs well which you named, but it shouldn't be held against him if he is played in a midfield two when he really needs to play in a central midfield three.
Apart from two seasons ago he hasnt been anything but average in my view. I don't beleive he should be so reliant on his midfielder partner to perform. Let's not forget carrick was just as woeful as Fellaini and Cleverley.
I rate Carrick as absolute quality. One of the top midfielders in the modern game the past few years, he's been so under rated. Look how successful we've been since he joined and became the mainstay in our midfield!
However, he's getting older, and should be phased out. I hope we sign someone to partner Herrera and Carrick is moved to third choice.
No reason to argue with you over this then.
Eh Carrick reliant on his midfield partner? How often during his time here has Carrick even had a reliable midfield partner? Scholes for two seasons (even then Carrick had to do a lot of covering for him), Fletcher for a season and a half and a small period with Hargreaves. Since then over what a 7-8 year period its been the likes of O'shea, Giggs, Gibson, Ando, Clev, Felliani, none of whom with the exception of Giggs, who was still pretty inconsistent (and became increasingly so imo), were reliable performers.
Carrick has had to be the main man in midfield for us for such a long period of time it's unreal. There's been more or less no one for him to build a long term partnership with nor whom could really carry the midfield for most his time here. I can't think of many great/top midfielders who didn't/don't have good partners to work with. Our midfield has been about Carrick and if he performs for a long period.
Even then to say he's only be average seems strange to me. Sure he's not always performed as he could but end of the day he's been the most frequent midfielder in a period where we've won 5 out of his 8 seasons here, finishing 1 point and gd off another 2 not to mention being part of our best run in europe.
Those players you've mentioned are supported in a midfield 3 because they are special, because they can dominate games, Carrick isn't in their league, these are playing who have consistently been at the very top, I'm sorry but that isn't Carrick. If Carrick didn't play for United would you appreciate him as much as you do now? I bet that answer is no. Hardly someone you can compare to those players you listed before.
Yeahhhhhh I'm a tit!
The last time he performed with any merit was the season before last. Our midfield had been our problem for years, he's been part of that. If he played poorly it was never his fault, it was because his midfield partner wasn't up to scratch. Let's look at it objectively, he had the worst season ever for us (I think you'll agree) and people are saying he should've gone to Brazil?!
He can, but he needs time on the ball when we are pressed a lot by stronger oppositions hes found often out of pace.. he is great when we play sides who sit back so he can dictate the tempo but he cant simply play at the highest tempo, matches with carrick are mostly slowed down..
Verrati and pirlo are much better dribblers so I dont see much things they have in common. Verrati doesnt look slow, he actually seems to go for the tackle, what carrick hardly does.. and is just 21 with a huge potential. I dont see many similarities between them apart they play around the same positions and have some playmaking qualities. but the overall contribution to the team are different.. Pirlo is at the end of his career and weve all season how bad he was at WC, he can play in 5men midfield in Seria A, so if carrick is concerned to be our pirlo I dont see why we put players around him just because he needs it for his game to be good enough. BUT we will see how he copes in a system which LVG brings in. Right now he would be my first choice with Herrera but would rather go for another player.. Didnt you see how fecking slow our play was in last three years.. we couldnt press because of players like Carrick Scholes and Giggs in the middle of the park, often playing. God I hated those 4-5-1 of sir Alexes with rooney helping in midfield as well.. so again carrick is not the player to build on but still a valuable player and sadly our 2nd best CM..
Our midfield has been a problem but I for one think Carrick with a midfielder who could do his fair share of the work would have had nowhere near the same issues and I think he'd be able to show more aspects of his game. Like I said he hasn't always played to his best but to not acknowledge the weakness of his partners either from a physical or technical and in some cases both viewpoint would be highly unfair in my opinion.
Also our weaknesses have also been a build up of a number of different factors. The ageing and injuries to defence preventing consistency, the lack of any real threat from our wingers. Added to that we've rarely acknowledged our weakness in the middle trying to play two strikers frequently piling more pressure on Carrick to perform as the main man there.
In terms of going to England, some people wanted him there because of the qualities he brings and namely the balance he could have brought. Carrick is the best sitting midfielder England have. He can offer a defensive protection Gerrard simply can't without compromising significantly on passing. He had a poor season but how much of that was due to Moyes because most people struggled, whether because they didn't want to try or were inhibited. It's not exactly a new thing that a player can be below par under one manage/set up and then flourish in another. I don't think it's unfounded that Carrick as a direct swap for Gerrard could have brought more balance to England in the way they chose to set up.
Pirlo, Verratti and Carrick are all foremost playmakers, the rest is details. Verratti or Pirlo might turn a player now and again but so can Carrick, none of them are ever going to dribble past five players, and they're not supposed to. Verratti might be slighly better tackler but Carricks stronger and reads the game just as well or better. Carrick bad in high tempo games? Yes and no. While he sometimes struggles under pressure his long-range passing can punish teams in high-tempo games where space opens up. In a proper three man midfield he'll get more support and options when pressured aswell and he can swap with Ander who's more capable under pressure in build-up play. I think that he'd thrive in a 4-3-3. Carricks been one of our best players these last few years, do you think should we ship out every player after they rurn 30? We need leaders/profiles in the team with Rio and Vida gone and Carrick is one of our best and most experienced players.
Verratti is an excellent dribbler from what I've seen of him. Bit too prone to stupid dribbles out of his own box, though.
Depending on the system we play under LVG I think it was a massive mistake not getting Herrera last year and I think Moyes thought to just settle thinking he'd be in the job for plenty of time to rectify the situation the next season. (Or could have been promised Herrera the next season? Speculatively.)
The poor season was two prong for me. Partly Carricks declining defensive ability and niche role that he's developed in terms of DLP, and also partly Moyes completely fecking him into a corner of playing in that uncomfortable style that he's so out of his depth playing. Having no other proper fast closing midfielder and using Cleverley to do that role was the first mistake, then having Carrick sat so far deep it most of the time rendered any attacking viability for Cleverley pointless was the second mistake. Carrick just about broke every combination in that Moyes designated role and it was no surprise that when Jones played with Cleverley there was a visual improvement in the style. The extra mobility allowed for a better balance in midfield.
I certainly wouldn't be placing all my eggs on Carrick's basket to turn it around because all the opposition has to do is deny him time on the ball and he becomes completely nullified. It's not even a case of 'well he fights hard and he tries to break the shackles and beat it' he just goes into his shell and I don't think I've ever seen him have a good game where the opposition gameplan was 'get at Carrick and give him no time on the ball'. I think Herrera will go a long way to rectifying that, depending on the balance that LVG decides to go forward with there is room for all of the midfielder to show their somehting but as far as individual skillsets going forward in the modern game I think that Carrick probably has the least feasable in a modern role. He just lacks that mobility. (Insert comparable gobshite Fellaini comments here.)
I probably wouldnt really look from an outside vantage point at that group of players and see a role that brings balance to Carrick without sticking him in with Herrera. All of the other combinations have huge gaping flaws. Having said that, I'd not have a problem seeing Carrick and Herrera line up in a midfield two to start the season.
I never said he wasn't but he uses it more to escape pressure, he rarely actually passes players by dribbling at pace. He's no Thiago or Isco who's dribbling is perhaps their greatest quality. But I never intented the discussion to be about Verratti or anyone else other than Carrick, I merely used them in my point about pace.
Separate names with a comma.