Michael Carrick - Head Coach for the remainder of the season

[Olecurls99]

Does the quality of the manager matter then, or just that they're given time?

If we had given Moyes, Giggs, LVG, Mourinho, Ole, Carrick, Ten Hag, Rangnick or Amorim say 10 years - they'd all have won multiple leagues and champions leagues presumably?


Pep is also a weird example, he won a treble in his first season at Barca. He won the league with 100 points in his 2nd season at City.

We'll never know how it would have panned out for all our managers. The last one we backed when shit hit the fan was Fergie. We would definitely have sacked Arteta after 18 months of what he showed at Arsenal and probably Pep as well considering he inherited a title winning team and came 4th his first year.

 

[Alex99]

We'll never know how it would have panned out for all our managers. The last one we backed when shit hit the fan was Fergie. We would definitely have sacked Arteta after 18 months of what he showed at Arsenal and probably Pep as well considering he inherited a title winning team and came 4th his first year.

He inherited a team that came 4th and finished 3rd, then won the league.

 

[Ish]

, for example, Enrique would be, who would no doubt make demands that might be at odds with the club's plans for long-term squad building.

other than possibly wanting more mobile/technical midfielders to control a game (which a few of us are somewhat hoping for anyway), I actually see decent alignment between Enrique and our supposed strategy for transfers. Decent/young age, multi skilled and fast/strong technical players who can play a few positions. PSG pretty much abandoned the galactico type signings under him.

But I agree that Carrick will possibly be “easier” to appease when it comes to signings in general (and it makes sense when you consider their CV’s). Anyway, right about now Enrique might be the only one I’d replace Carrick with and he signed (or has agreed) an extension with PSG.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Klopp, Pep, Arteta. All given time, all successful

Only Arteta was given time despite not being successful in the short to mid term, it's literally the only exception proving the rule. And even he won the FA Cup in his first half season.
Lumping him together with the other two is nonsensical.

 

[Olecurls99]

He inherited a team that came 4th and finished 3rd, then won the league.

They had won the league twice under Pelligrini. Pep was not smelling of roses after that 1st season in England.

 

[Olecurls99]

Only Arteta was given time despite not being successful in the short to mid term, it's literally the only exception proving the rule. And even he won the FA Cup in his first half season.
Lumping him together with the other two is nonsensical.

Proving what rule?

 

[Alex99]

They had won the league twice under Pelligrini. Pep was not smelling of roses after that 1st season in England.

They won the league once under Pellegrini, in 2013/14.

Mourinho won it with Chelsea in 2014/15, and Ranieri with Leicester in 2015/16.

Pep came in for 2016/17, after City had finished 4th on goal difference the season before.

 

[Dominos]

We'll never know how it would have panned out for all our managers. The last one we backed when shit hit the fan was Fergie. We would definitely have sacked Arteta after 18 months of what he showed at Arsenal and probably Pep as well considering he inherited a title winning team and came 4th his first year.

We almost certainly would have sacked Arteta to be fair.

Zero chance we would have sacked one of the most elite and proven managers in the game for finishing top 4 in his first season. He did not inherit a title winning team.

They had won the league twice under Pelligrini. Pep was not smelling of roses after that 1st season in England.

Nope. They won the title once under Pelligrini.

They had gone two years without the title when Pep was appointed.

 

[Martial'sEmergingSmile]

Heard Andy Mitten saying that Carrick chose to give the international players extra time off, so they won't resume training until Wednesday 8th (our match is on Monday 13th).

Wheeler/Salt in the Daily Mail say similar:

Big break for Reds

United’s stars will be given extra-time off at the end of the international break as the club takes advantage of another blank weekend.

Normally the international players would start to drift back into Carrington to resume training at the end of next week. But with United not involved in the FA Cup quarter-finals, they won’t be required to report back until early the following week. That’s good news for the foreign players in particular who can spend some extra time in their homelands seeing family and friends.

I don't get the shortening of training sessions and constant time off. Instead of bringing the players back at the same time as every other team (or everyone in the Cup at the very least) and getting an extended period on the training pitch to prep for Leeds and beyond, we voluntarily give that up to cram it into 3 or 4 sessions?

Although we do go for a walk now so maybe it all balances out.

Carrick also gives the players a day off after games, unlike his predecessor Ruben Amorim who preferred to use it for a recovery session at Carrington.

Now Confidential has learned that for the last two away games at Newcastle and Bournemouth, Carrick has taken the squad on a midday stroll around the hotel grounds to break up the day and give the players some fresh air ahead of the evening kick-off so they aren’t cooped up inside all day.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Proving what rule?

That if managers don't work out in the short term, they won't work out in the long term

 

[Olecurls99]

We almost certainly would have sacked Arteta to be fair.

Zero chance we would have sacked one of the most elite and proven managers in the game for finishing top 4 in his first season. He did not inherit a title winning team.


Nope. They won the title once under Pelligrini.

They had gone two years without the title when Pep was appointed.

Fair enough. I'm misremembering. My point stands on Arteta though.

 

[Olecurls99]

That if managers don't work out in the short term, they won't work out in the long term

I would argue that certain managers were working out, especially Ole.

 

[FortunaUtd]

I would argue that certain managers were working out, especially Ole.

Ole did alright but is no exception. He didn't work out any better after 3 years than he did after 3 weeks.

 

[Andersonson]

Heard Andy Mitten saying that Carrick chose to give the international players extra time off, so they won't resume training until Wednesday 8th (our match is on Monday 13th).

Wheeler/Salt in the Daily Mail say similar:



I don't get the shortening of training sessions and constant time off. Instead of bringing the players back at the same time as every other team (or everyone in the Cup at the very least) and getting an extended period on the training pitch to prep for Leeds and beyond, we voluntarily give that up to cram it into 3 or 4 sessions?

Although we do go for a walk now apparently so maybe it all balances out.

Plenty of our players have a world cup coming up. If you dont think extended days/weeks off greatly reduces injury risks you should read up.

Starting next season with unnecessary worn out/injured players is not a good idea

 

[jem]

Ole did alright but is no exception. He didn't work out any better after 3 years than he did after 3 weeks.

Well to be fair, if he’d maintained the pace of his first 3 weeks, we’d be hailing Ole as our Pep.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Well to be fair, if he’d maintained the pace of his first 3 weeks, we’d be hailing Ole as our Pep.

Which is why he doesn't serve as an example of managers coming good if you just give them enough time. The point is very rarely managers and their teams develop traits and strengths after many months or even seasons which aren't discernible already very soon.

 

[jem]

Which is why he doesn't serve as an example of managers coming good if you just give them enough time. The point is very rarely managers and their teams develop traits and strengths after many months or even seasons which aren't discernible already very soon.

I agree, and even at the time felt very wary about giving Ole the job. I'm more conflicted with Carrick.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

Carrick deserves the job, it has been day and night since Amorim was sacked. He has made an inherited squad perform. A last minute away goal otherwise he would be still unbeated (Malacia won't play again for Utd), plus Bournmouth VAR completely undid us again. The rest, ex West Ham he has won.

Give him a chance to build his own team, he was a MID, we need a mid overall, plus I like the defensive minded backroom staff he has around him too. We will be ready to compete for the title next season with a great summer.

Plus he has made us more exciting to watch again after years and years of bore.

 

[Stacker]

I personally can’t look any further than Carrick to take us forward.


If he gets us back into the Champions League after the mess we were in when he took over, only to get brushed aside, that would feel really unfair. He at least deserves a short-term 1+1 contract so we can properly assess him at the end of the season.


He knows the club inside out and has clearly steadied the ship, especially given the injuries and the very limited squad options he’s had to work with. Despite that, we’re back in great form. No team has picked up more points than us since he came in, we’re sitting comfortably in third, and it’s exciting to watch United again with real confidence that we can take three points no matter who we’re facing in the Premier League. That definitely wasn’t the case under Ruben Amorim, there were times I genuinely dreaded matchday because I knew we were in for a pummelling.


Carrick has made us solid, competitive, and dare I say it, fun to watch once more. He’s bringing back that United DNA without any drama. Give the man a proper chance.

 

[Stig]

Heard Andy Mitten saying that Carrick chose to give the international players extra time off, so they won't resume training until Wednesday 8th (our match is on Monday 13th).

Wheeler/Salt in the Daily Mail say similar:



I don't get the shortening of training sessions and constant time off. Instead of bringing the players back at the same time as every other team (or everyone in the Cup at the very least) and getting an extended period on the training pitch to prep for Leeds and beyond, we voluntarily give that up to cram it into 3 or 4 sessions?

Although we do go for a walk now so maybe it all balances out.

I read that this reduction in time going to the ground before the match is 15 minutes.

 

[George The Best]

Would take a monumental melt down in the remaining fixtures for him not to get the job, if he wants it of course.

 

[Fitchett]

I personally can’t look any further than Carrick to take us forward.


If he gets us back into the Champions League after the mess we were in when he took over, only to get brushed aside, that would feel really unfair. He at least deserves a short-term 1+1 contract so we can properly assess him at the end of the season.


He knows the club inside out and has clearly steadied the ship, especially given the injuries and the very limited squad options he’s had to work with. Despite that, we’re back in great form. No team has picked up more points than us since he came in, we’re sitting comfortably in third, and it’s exciting to watch United again with real confidence that we can take three points no matter who we’re facing in the Premier League. That definitely wasn’t the case under Ruben Amorim, there were times I genuinely dreaded matchday because I knew we were in for a pummelling.


Carrick has made us solid, competitive, and dare I say it, fun to watch once more. He’s bringing back that United DNA without any drama. Give the man a proper chance.

This. It would be utter madness to appoint someone else and risk a repeat of the other appointments from outside the club who have tried to change many things, without success. Carrick and his backroom staff are doing a great job with an incomplete squad of players. Imagine what they can do when Vivell and Wilcox do some more good recruitment in the summer.

 

[andersj]

Regarding his spell at Middlesbrough I sometimes wonder what made Barcelona have faith in Enrique after his spell at Roma and Celta.

The coaches who came before Enrique, like Spaletti and Ranieri, had a game average of 1,86 and 1,87 points per game from 2005 to 2011. Enrique averaged 1,39 points per game. The guy that preceeded him, Zeman, took 1,64 point. Rudi Garcia took 1,84 point per game again.

The same was the case at Celta Vigo. Paco Herrera before him took 1,58 points per game while Enrique took 1,30 points per game. Then they hired Eduardo Berizzo who took 1,48 points per game.

 

[Ole's screen]

Regarding his spell at Middlesbrough I sometimes wonder what made Barcelona have faith in Enrique after his spell at Roma and Celta.

The coaches who came before Enrique, like Spaletti and Ranieri, had a game average of 1,86 and 1,87 points per game from 2005 to 2011. Enrique averaged 1,39 points per game. The guy that preceeded him, Zeman, took 1,64 point. Rudi Garcia took 1,84 point per game again.

The same was the case at Celta Vigo. Paco Herrera before him took 1,58 points per game while Enrique took 1,30 points per game. Then they hired Eduardo Berizzo who took 1,48 points per game.

Faith in their own analysis and judgement. We’re too stupid and cowardly to make and trust our own judgements, we care too much about “how it looks”, or “rival fans will laugh at us”, or “what looks like the thing everyone says we should do”

 

[NLunited]

Regarding his spell at Middlesbrough I sometimes wonder what made Barcelona have faith in Enrique after his spell at Roma and Celta.

The coaches who came before Enrique, like Spaletti and Ranieri, had a game average of 1,86 and 1,87 points per game from 2005 to 2011. Enrique averaged 1,39 points per game. The guy that preceeded him, Zeman, took 1,64 point. Rudi Garcia took 1,84 point per game again.

The same was the case at Celta Vigo. Paco Herrera before him took 1,58 points per game while Enrique took 1,30 points per game. Then they hired Eduardo Berizzo who took 1,48 points per game.

That worries me, thanks for digging up those numbers. So he‘s not a pragmatist but a system coach.

Not what we need at all, he‘d flounder here.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Regarding his spell at Middlesbrough I sometimes wonder what made Barcelona have faith in Enrique after his spell at Roma and Celta.

The coaches who came before Enrique, like Spaletti and Ranieri, had a game average of 1,86 and 1,87 points per game from 2005 to 2011. Enrique averaged 1,39 points per game. The guy that preceeded him, Zeman, took 1,64 point. Rudi Garcia took 1,84 point per game again.

The same was the case at Celta Vigo. Paco Herrera before him took 1,58 points per game while Enrique took 1,30 points per game. Then they hired Eduardo Berizzo who took 1,48 points per game.

They knew him from working at Barcelona B Team and he was a former player. They like signing former players.

 

[andersj]

They knew him from working at Barcelona B Team and he was a former player. They like signing former players.

Yes. Of course. But what quality did they see in him from that period that gave them so much confidence in him, despite his poor results with other clubs?

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Yes. Of course. But what quality did they see in him from that period that gave them so much confidence in him, despite his poor results with other clubs?

They had plateaued somewhat after Pep, and they were looking for the next step forward. Luis Enrique had the advantage of knowing the club and its ways inside out (which is a phrase that actually means something when applied to Barcelona), and he introduced a more vertical style of play, which, when combined with positional play principles, appears to have become the winning formula in the football meta today.

 

[Ole's screen]

They had plateaued somewhat after Pep, and they were looking for the next step forward. Luis Enrique had the advantage of knowing the club and its ways inside out (which is a phrase that actually means something when applied to Barcelona), and he introduced a more vertical style of play, which, when combined with positional play principles, appears to have become the winning formula in the football meta today.

It means something at United too. It’s just that our fans are too cynical and jaded and actually don’t really like what United is they’d rather it was Barcelona.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

It means something at United too. It’s just that our fans are too cynical and jaded and actually don’t really like what United is they’d rather it was Barcelona.

In terms of what happens within the four lines of the pitch, it means nothing (not just for United, for most clubs). Ferguson was a lot of things, but a tactical innovator (similar to Cruyff) he was not. His greatest talent was his ability to win titles by rising to any challenge. He reclaimed the PL title in 2007 with a style reminiscent of his 90s swashbuckling days, he did the PL/CL double in 2008 by adjusting to the prominent football style of the day, and he got one game away from repeating the same feat in 2009 by presenting a completely risk-averse side which thrived in 1–0 victories. This is why trying to recreate the Ferguson era (or the United way) is mostly an exercise in futility. Personally, i don't give a damn about Barcelona. The poster above inquired as to what motivated them to choose Enrique despite his lack of an impressive resume at the time. The answer is that he made sense as an internal appointment given the nature of their club, and much of his success stemmed from him not implementing his ideas on a blank canvas. It's also why when their cycle comes to an end, they have no qualms about letting them go and moving to the next one whereas, at United, we dream about a manager who will stay here until his retirement.

 

[L1nk]

Once again, the internet wins. A post that lacks nuance, like almost every post on the Caf.

Bournemouth is a good team, we were away from home and they play a style that is difficult to deal with.

It’s the disease of finding the next SAF. We shouldn’t be looking for that because that is absolutely luck, nothing more. Possibly Ancelotti, Klopp, Zidane, Pep and Enrique would be the five managers that have the pedigree we would all want. Pep will never come here. Enrique has a better team/squad in a better city. He’ll never come here. Ancelotti would be the most likely and I’d be happy to see him on the touchline. Klopp is retired and won’t come here anyway and Zidane is taking over the France team.

I don’t see the issue with Carrick not changing tactics. I think the lack of a press or weak press was because possibly their CBs are pretty good on the ball and the 3 man midfield means we need to be cautious. Tactics are not created in a vacuum and the other team’s strengths and weaknesses need to be taken into account.

I agree that Mbeumo is wasted at the 9. His best performances have come on the RW getting behind. Furthermore, our lack of enthusiasm in winning 2nd balls is most likely down to having a 2 man midfield one of which is 33 and the other not known for his athleticism. I think this is intentional on Carrick’s part. Love that he’s in a 4-4-2 when defending, I think that’s the right call. We really didn’t give up much and the first goal was a lucky shot through the legs of a defender, perfectly placed.

All in all, Carrick is not perfect tactically, but it’s impossible to be so when your squad is limited.

Happy to see how all of this turns out.

If he gets the permanent job i’ll be behind him and the team 100% percent of the way, of course. But I’m a realist and won’t lie to myself, my personal opinion is I think we’ll be regretting a permanent appointment within two seasons and wondering why it was even considered in the first place considering his pedigree. Obviously if it comes back to bite me in the ass I won’t exactly be disappointed cause it means United will be doing well… but yeah I just can’t get excited at all, unless he really changes things up, which considering he doesn’t seem to have considering his time at Middlesbrough, doesn’t bode well for me. Feels like we’ll just be another sit back and counter team when we come up against mid table teams that play decent football and a team that can’t break down solid defences when we need to. Is it a coincidence that all our metrics have declined since he took over, that players like Mbeumo look god awful, that our performances have been going to shit, I don’t think it is.

This isn’t about finding the next SAF, which is ironic because I feel like a lot of people only want Carrick because he used to play for us under SAF and even SAF had more experience than Carrick when managing United. But you don’t just find a Pep for example, like the odds of this are criminally low. There isn’t a high ratio of managers that have done okay at lower leagues or had very little experience and then suddenly stepped it up to win leagues at one of the biggest clubs in the world. Even Klopp did his thing at Mainz and then proved he could step it up at Dortmund before he came to Liverpool, and even then he wasn’t as successful as perhaps he should have been. Pep is a generational manager. I just don’t see the guy that was middling at Middlesbrough suddenly taking us to glory just because its Michael Carrick and he used to play for us. I’m just not a romantic about these kinda of things when things are obviously staring me in the face, sorry

Btw I would take Nagelsmann a hundred times over.

 

[Phil Osophy]

Celta finished 17th in the league in 2013. Enrique took over after that season and they finished 9th. It's unknown if he could have improved their results and developed the team had he stayed there, but he left a good impression.

On the other side, Barca was already built as a team and developed to the extreme. The quality of the squad was superb in every position and the style was well defined, so they were not looking for a top coach at his peak to build something or reinvent the wheel, but more like a supervisor to take care of a well oiled machine.

After Pep they hired his assistant Vilanova, and even with the man spending half the season out with a bad illness they still managed to get 100 points in the league. Then it was Tata Martino, and after him it was Enrique. After Enrique the trend was more or less the same. People like Setien, Koeman, or Xavi from Qatar. It would be crazy for us to do such things.

Barcelona is not a good reference for us to compare because their football style is the axis of the club, and players and managers orbit around it. On the top of it, having a player like Messi demanded a special treatment and a manager who was willing to make concessions. So the margin for a top manager to go there and get the keys, control everything, switch styles etc. didn't exist.

What did Barcelona see in Enrique? I guess that very similar ideas. A strong character to deal with the media, the pressure and the bitter rivalry with Real. Charisma, energy, hunger, and a strong dislike for Real Madrid probably helped too.

He tweaked some things, he made their play a bit more direct at times (like that CL game against Pep's Bayern) and he pushed to improve the physicality of the team who had decreased a bit previously, but without losing their essence at all. It was a brave call to appoint him but you could see the point.

I don't think our team is at that level where a "balanced supervisor" can lift us to the PL trophy by relying on the current tactical background and the quality of the squad, providing minor tweaks and lifting spirits. Even in this current positive spell we are getting results in highly unconvincing games we could be drawing or losing in some cases, which isn't Carrick's fault.

He was asked to get results and he's making the choices that give us the best chance to win games now with our current resources. But it's a short term approach and will have to be changed soon. I don't think it is sustainable to keep winning games at this or similar rate with that passive approach, and we can't build anything on that platform.

Midfield will be rebuilt this summer, and I expect our lines to be pushed higher and pressing more. I don't expect us to dominate games with 70 % of the ball nor aiming for it middle-long term, but scoring and sitting deep like we did vs Fulham or Bournemouth is leading us nowhere.

The task of building while competing will be huge with 4 competitions, less energy and time to coach and prepare for games, probably more injuries, and big clubs potentially bouncing back with new appointments after disappointing seasons.

Everything is possible in football but sitting on the warmth of results in such a short spell, and projecting it to the future as if the same conditions, tactics, form, confidence levels, etc. will remain the same is naive to say the least.

 

[Phil Osophy]

It's also why when their cycle comes to an end, they have no qualms about letting them go and moving to the next one whereas, at United, we dream about a manager who will stay here until his retirement.

And that's another thing.

When Mourinho got sacked at Roma they were 9th in January, De Rossi took over and they won 7 in the following 10 (5 wins in his first 6 games), finished 6th, qualified for Europe and got a permanent contract. And then he got sacked in September after a poor start, having finished that previous season poorly too.

A top midfielder, for those who say that midfielders are better managers. A club legend, a natural leader and born in Rome. I don't know if the sacking was unfair and premature, but I know that if this was Ineos they would have given him 2-3 years of a free ride after making him permanent, even breaking all kind of negative records and finishing in the mid table if necessary, just to make it work at any cost before they admit a mistake.

If Amorim hadn't confronted them he'd be still here coaching against us and unable to win two games in a row under the premise that "you need 3 years to prove yourself" and "people don't have patience these days", both according to SJR. And RA was a random guy with no links with the club. If they appoint Carrick and the job becomes too big for him let's get ready for years of obscurity before they decide to correct it.

I may be wrong but I'm almost convinced that Ineos are worried about appointing someone else, failing and being criticized by not allowing Carrick to continue. So except a huge drop in results takes place I'm expecting a self-preservation move by them, appointing Carrick and then hoping for the best.

These guys came to professionalize the club after the mess left by the Glazers, but their decisions look everything except methodical and professional. They talked first about a 'game model' to build an identity for the long term and they went to interview plenty of candidates with different styles, which left you wondering what game model they were talking about.

After all the noise they keep ETH in charge. They sack him some months later and appoint Amorim, and far from correcting the mistake at the end of the season they double down.

Now we're heading towards appointing someone who didn't even appear in the polls 10 games ago, but suddenly he's the best choice because "we win games". Everything at this club is so unserious it makes you laugh.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

And that's another thing.

When Mourinho got sacked at Roma they were 9th in January, De Rossi took over and they won 7 in the following 10 (5 wins in his first 6 games), finished 6th, qualified for Europe and got a permanent contract. And then he got sacked in September after a poor start, having finished that previous season poorly too.

A top midfielder, for those who say that midfielders are better managers. A club legend, a natural leader and born in Rome. I don't know if the sacking was unfair and premature, but I know that if this was Ineos they would have given him 2-3 years of a free ride after making him permanent, even breaking all kind of negative records and finishing in the mid table if necessary, just to make it work at any cost before they admit a mistake.

If Amorim hadn't confronted them he'd be still here coaching against us and unable to win two games in a row under the premise that "you need 3 years to prove yourself" and "people don't have patience these days", both according to SJR. And RA was a random guy with no links with the club. If they appoint Carrick and the job becomes too big for him let's get ready for years of obscurity before they decide to correct it.

I may be wrong but I'm almost convinced that Ineos are worried about appointing someone else, failing and being criticized by not allowing Carrick to continue. So except a huge drop in results takes place I'm expecting a self-preservation move by them, appointing Carrick and then hoping for the best.

These guys came to professionalize the club after the mess left by the Glazers, but their decisions look everything except methodical and professional. They talked first about a 'game model' to build an identity for the long term and they went to interview plenty of candidates with different styles, which left you wondering what game model they were talking about.

After all the noise they keep ETH in charge. They sack him some months later and appoint Amorim, and far from correcting the mistake at the end of the season they double down.

Now we're heading towards appointing someone who didn't even appear in the polls 10 games ago, but suddenly he's the best choice because "we win games". Everything at this club is so unserious it makes you laugh.

My initial post was about trying to see patterns and draw parallels where there aren't any. Barcelona in particular are a bad example because they are one of the few clubs that actually have a unique style of play, one that produces players as well as coaches. They turned down the world's hottest managerial property in 2007 to give the job to a nobody from within the club because the latter's plan was more in line with the club's philosophy. What are we looking for exactly when we're searching in our past for answers and solutions to our problems? It's mostly vibes and a sense of togetherness, since Carrick hasn't produced anything worth of notice, like most clubs do on such occasions. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The benefit INEOS have is that they can wait to make their final decision. The big question, for me, is this: Do they see a higher ceiling in the performances under Carrick with 200 odd million spent next summer? Is this "keep it tight at the back and hope our individual quality up front to make a difference" worth such an investment? How does Carrick plan to move on from there? Given the state of the squad, Amorim's "positional dogma" and the decision not to invest in the axis of the team last summer, i doubt Berrada and Wilcox had watched more than five of Sporting's games before they made the appointment. I agree it's sad because if the money was coming straight out of SJR's pocket (or the Glazers), they would have found a way to figure these things out.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Yes. Of course. But what quality did they see in him from that period that gave them so much confidence in him, despite his poor results with other clubs?

I don't know that they had a lot of confidence. Those clubs will hire you and if they are not convinced by what they're seeing, they'll fire you. He was at risk for a while.
Also I think the Celta stint was generally considered good. Maybe the points-per-game weren't amazing, but people felt the team played well.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Strewth. When’s the next game?

 

[Varane around town]

I'd go for Carrick for the following reasons:

1, I think his spell here has moved the 'may as well stick with Carrick bar' nice and high. There's only a few candidates who I think would be an improvement on Carrick. He's come in and made us competitive and fun to watch again. It's easy to mock but clubs do have personalities and there's certain buttons that a manager needs to push. Carrick knows that.

2, I think the argument about his lack of experience isn't a good one. Arteta had never managed a senior team before Arsenal. Plus all experience is to some extent subjective. Amorim was some of the hottest sh** in European management. He was never a Manchester United manager.

3, If the players weren't having Carrick it'd be obvious by now. Look at Rosenior in Chelsea.

4, We can't become prisoners of the past. There's an argument that we've tried every genre of manager out there. We've done a legendary ex-player (Ole), European mastermind (Jose and LvG), upcoming British manager (Moyes) and next big thing Euro manager (EtH and Amorim).

 

[Pearl's a minger]

I may be in the minority here but I'd rather the club shook his hand at the end of the season (irrespective of where we end up) thank him for his efforts and move on. Every appointment comes with an element of risk. I know we've had a great run under him since he came in but bar 1 maybe 2 games have we really played that well over the course of these games? The answer is no. Poor at West Ham, Poor v Palace Poor v Everton Poor v Newcastle and not great at Bournemouth. Yes we've been winning more games but lets not forget we only play once a week currently. Carrick also seems to have a reluctantly to freshen the 1st eleven up which in itself will cause problems with greater games next season. I know the Boro fans weren't totally enamoured with in game management and style of play and I know we have a greater calibre of players than them. But I cant help but feel people are going down the same rabbit hole they did when Ole started his interim position at Utd really well. The club cant say they haven't had time to scout out possibilities for the managers position and I still feel we should be aiming a little higher than Carrick. Or else I fear we'll be in exactly the same position in a years time with everyone wanting Carrick out.

 

[lex talionis]

I may be in the minority here but I'd rather the club shook his hand at the end of the season (irrespective of where we end up) thank him for his efforts and move on. Every appointment comes with an element of risk. I know we've had a great run under him since he came in but bar 1 maybe 2 games have we really played that well over the course of these games? The answer is no. Poor at West Ham, Poor v Palace Poor v Everton Poor v Newcastle and not great at Bournemouth. Yes we've been winning more games but lets not forget we only play once a week currently. Carrick also seems to have a reluctantly to freshen the 1st eleven up which in itself will cause problems with greater games next season. I know the Boro fans weren't totally enamoured with in game management and style of play and I know we have a greater calibre of players than them. But I cant help but feel people are going down the same rabbit hole they did when Ole started his interim position at Utd really well. The club cant say they haven't had time to scout out possibilities for the managers position and I still feel we should be aiming a little higher than Carrick. Or else I fear we'll be in exactly the same position in a years time with everyone wanting Carrick out.

I don't object to your conclusion -- I disagree with it, but it is a reasonable one -- that we should shake Carrick's hand and move on, but the argument to support the conclusion is weak. Carrick's job, literally, is to win games and he's done that -- I think it's 7 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat. I'd have to double-check the form guide, but I'm pretty sure he tops the PL in points accumulated since he took over as United manager. That fact is not easily dismissed with casual references to "poor" and "not great" performances.

Just to drill into one of your examples -- the victory over Palace -- yes, we had to come from behind to win the game, but that's exactly what we did. It's what United have done for ages. I'm not a worshipper of stat sheets, but the stat sheet points to a deserved United victory. And even if the core of the objection is that we should dominate every opponent from the first whistle, how could that possibly be a reasonable expectation with this particular side? The holes in our squad are well known and there are very few opponents, if any, we're going to face in the PL whom we're going to steamroll in the first half to allow us to stroll in the second half. Even under Fergie's best sides, we had to slog through lesser opponents with narrow wins all the time.

The Ole argument doesn't hold up. We also brought in experienced managers such as Van Gaal and Mourinho and they didn't work out very well either, but it doesn't therefore stand to reason that we shouldn't even consider an experienced manager. We brought in less experienced but up and coming managers -- ten Hag and Amorim -- but neither of them worked out very well either, but that fact doesn't allow the argument that should refuse to consider up and coming managers.

The only reasonable conclusion at this moment, April 2, is that the jury should still be out. It may all collapse over the next 7 games, and if so we're definitely on the lookout either for an experienced manager with a record as long as that of Van Gaal or Mourinho, or an up and coming manager who has put together an impressive record at a smaller club, as ten Hag and Amorim did. We've batted around names such as Ancelotti, Enrique and Nagelsmann. But if Carrick continues amassing points as he has so far, even if our play doesn't reach the level of peak Liverpool, there really is no case for anyone other than Carrick.

 

[Zumbi]

I may be in the minority here but I'd rather the club shook his hand at the end of the season (irrespective of where we end up) thank him for his efforts and move on. Every appointment comes with an element of risk. I know we've had a great run under him since he came in but bar 1 maybe 2 games have we really played that well over the course of these games? The answer is no. Poor at West Ham, Poor v Palace Poor v Everton Poor v Newcastle and not great at Bournemouth. Yes we've been winning more games but lets not forget we only play once a week currently. Carrick also seems to have a reluctantly to freshen the 1st eleven up which in itself will cause problems with greater games next season. I know the Boro fans weren't totally enamoured with in game management and style of play and I know we have a greater calibre of players than them. But I cant help but feel people are going down the same rabbit hole they did when Ole started his interim position at Utd really well. The club cant say they haven't had time to scout out possibilities for the managers position and I still feel we should be aiming a little higher than Carrick. Or else I fear we'll be in exactly the same position in a years time with everyone wanting Carrick out.

In some key aspects - yes. Our defensive structure and organization looks infinitely better, which has achieved two very important things. One is that we’re no longer easy to beat, and teams can’t get at us so easily. That’s been a huge problem for us in recent years under Ten Hag and Amorim. Even at home, any team in the league would fancy going after us and getting something off us. That’s just not the case any more - we are hard to break down and get good chances against. That defensive solidity has given a foundation for our attack to work from. A moment of quality from Fernandes, or Sesko, or Cunha, or whoever else, is often now enough to get us valuable points. Before we were so vulnerable defensively that it wouldn’t matter - moments of such quality would be liable to get cancelled out.

Another very relevant consideration particularly for this season is the relative strength and competitiveness of every team in the league, especially in terms of pace and physicality. Noonne is winning games easily or comfortably week in week out. Even the teams at the bottom are often fighting tooth and nail in tight games with those at the top of the league. Carrick’s achievements with our current squad - which most accept isn’t where it needs to be with obvious deficiencies and imbalances - needs to be viewed in that context.

The question marks over rotation and handling a busier schedule are justified, although they’d remain for any other new manager coming in. It’s tough for any team to balance the really busy schedules and get their rotation right. Perhaps more pertinent is what our summer transfer budget is and how successful INEOS are with smart signings in and out.

I hope we start seeing a bit more in possession, and that we start putting some teams to the sword by being more clinical earlier in games, putting daylight between us and the opposition so we can close them out more comfortably.

Without knowing who the other viable managerial prospects are, it’s hard for me to rule Carrick out with the positive things we have achieved. It looks like he might’ve turned a squad which many said wasn’t fit for purpose into a bona fide top four team, which is still a remarkable achievement even if the performances aren’t blowing us away every week. There’s now a foundation for the players, Carrick and INEOS to build from.