Michael Carrick - Head Coach for the remainder of the season

[Alex99]

Forget about united for a minute.

Summer last season at what level would you put Carrick? Of all the managers in the Premier league and ones you have mentioned in this thread?

I personally wouldn't have even thought of Carrick as being premier league level let alone a top candidate for United.

This was the problem with getting an ex player in. We get a new manager bounce and people get carried away with it.

Emery would be one I'd pick. I think he'd elevate the team and he would have a club not selling his players every season to balance the books which would be something he's never had before.

I don't think any manager is a guaranteed success under the ownership but realistically right now I think he's as good as it gets. I think we'd be a regular champions league team with him and that in of itself is a great improvement over what we have endured since Sir Alex retired. We have yo yo'd in and out. If we can become a bonafide CL team then we would open the market for the elite managers (if emery doesn't prove to be one)

I'm reasonably on board with Emery, but the exact same "not the man to take the next step" concerns are going to be there from day one. I think he'd also be a short-term appointment, with us hoping someone better presents themselves. With that in mind, there's certainly a (hopeful) logic to just sticking with Carrick and seeing if he can grow into the role, rather than seeing if a manager 20 years into his career suddenly finds that missing piece of the puzzle that eluded him while he was at PSG and Arsenal.

I'm not saying that Carrick is the best choice, but I also don't think there's much separating him from many of the other realistic options. We'd need to Carrick to grow into the role, and the same is true for someone like Iraola, or even Alonso.

Carrick's time at Middlesbrough is largely irrelevant, really. He's done well (so far) during the brief time he's managed United. The same weird dismissal happened with Ole, and that covered nearly three seasons of football (during which he became our only post-Fergie manager to finish top four in consecutive seasons).

 

[Frank Grimes]

I'd take either Emery or Iraola over him in a heartbeat. His lack of decision making in the Leeds game exposed his limitations. He also presided over a 10 man defeat to Newcastle. The warning signs are there.

 

[croadyman]

That i agree on. He gave stability and results so far

But he's not the man to be a permanent manager in my opinion.

Yeah was fine with him only being interim, however just knew they wouldn't be able to let go

 

[croadyman]

I'm reasonably on board with Emery, but the exact same "not the man to take the next step" concerns are going to be there from day one. I think he'd also be a short-term appointment, with us hoping someone better presents themselves. With that in mind, there's certainly a (hopeful) logic to just sticking with Carrick and seeing if he can grow into the role, rather than seeing if a manager 20 years into his career suddenly finds that missing piece of the puzzle that eluded him while he was at PSG and Arsenal.

I'm not saying that Carrick is the best choice, but I also don't think there's much separating him from many of the other realistic options. We'd need to Carrick to grow into the role, and the same is true for someone like Iraola, or even Alonso.

Carrick's time at Middlesbrough is largely irrelevant, really. He's done well (so far) during the brief time he's managed United. The same weird dismissal happened with Ole, and that covered nearly three seasons of football (during which he became our only post-Fergie manager to finish top four in consecutive seasons).

There's not much separating from the other realistic options are you actually kidding me?

 

[next_number_seven]

I'd take either Emery or Iraola over him in a heartbeat. His lack of decision making in the Leeds game exposed his limitations. He also presided over a 10 man defeat to Newcastle. The warning signs are there.

I think someone will bring up those games in hindsight next year if we appoint him.

I think anyone who wants the job has to prove themselves first.

It's the biggest job in football right now.

 

[Andycoleno9]

At least his 1 trick has been better than Amorim's and is getting us results. My only question is whether the improvement in his results are based upon the foundations laid by Amorim. The danger being the squad begins to forget the good things as time passes, without Carrick bringing his own good things into play. Sort of how Arsene Wenger built on the solid foundation of George Graham's defensive solidity. And their defence got progressively worse with time.

The whole point is what your objective actually is. If your goal is to win trophies, then you need an Amorim/ETH-type manager, not a Carrick/Solskjaer-type.

Teams don’t win trophies (league titles or cups) with managers whose approach is based on minimal tactical structure and relies heavily on giving players freedom. This is especially obvious in cup competitions, where a manager has to make tactical adjustments both before and during a single match. Solskjaer against Villareal compared with Erik against City are good examples for that. One froze, other did his homework with his staff.

Carrick and Solskjaer are the type of managers who can, for a season or two, ride the current strength of the squad and finish roughly where that squad belongs in terms of quality. Sit deep away from home, rely on individual quality at home against weaker sides, and that gets you 5th or 6th place.

Long-term, if you want trophies, you need a tactician, not a motivator.

 

[sullydnl]

I'd take either Emery or Iraola over him in a heartbeat. His lack of decision making in the Leeds game exposed his limitations. He also presided over a 10 man defeat to Newcastle. The warning signs are there.

Emery is likely a better manager than Carrick.

But given our previous coach left following a dispute over responsibilities under the "head coach" structure we've sought to implement in recent season, there's a pretty obvious risk in opting for Emery who has insisted on greater control at Villa than pretty much any manager in the league enjoys.

If the person we bring in isn't comfortable operating as a head coach under the existing football structure, we'll be back in the same position again in a matter of months.

 

[Ish]

At least his 1 trick has been better than Amorim's and is getting us results. My only question is whether the improvement in his results are based upon the foundations laid by Amorim. The danger being the squad begins to forget the good things as time passes, without Carrick bringing his own good things into play. Sort of how Arsene Wenger built on the solid foundation of George Graham's defensive solidity. And their defence got progressively worse with time.

Better comparison is surely Klopp and Slot, perhaps? Alas, I voted Nagelsmann before Amorim was appointed but Amorim has scared me even off him at this moment. I’m sort of in the Luis Enrique or keep MC crowd but our form is concerning - like really concerning and I can’t face us just writing off another season before the mid way point again next year.

 

[Ish]

There's not much separating from the other realistic options are you actually kidding me?

Aye, they should clarify who they deem as “realistic” or else that would be a bit of a wild statement IMO.

 

[Alex99]

There's not much separating from the other realistic options are you actually kidding me?

I think a lot of the concerns people have about Carrick apply to the other realistic contenders.

I think people worry far too much about the CV of a manager when it's been proven time and again that there is no formula for a managerial appointment.

I appreciate he's the least experienced and don't think it's wrong to want us to move on from him (regardless of how we finish the season) because of that, but the fact that there isn't really a standout option says a lot about the pool of managers available.

 

[croadyman]

I think someone will bring up those games in hindsight next year if we appoint him.

I think anyone who wants the job has to prove themselves first.

It's the biggest job in football right now.

Yeah I will definitely bring it up, sorry

 

[croadyman]

I think a lot of the concerns people have about Carrick apply to the other realistic contenders.

I think people worry far too much about the CV of a manager when it's been proven time and again that there is no formula for a managerial appointment.

I appreciate he's the least experienced and don't think it's wrong to want us to move on from him (regardless of how we finish the season) because of that, but the fact that there isn't really a standout option says a lot about the pool of managers available.

Doesn't help most of the top managers have either just committed to national jobs or in the case of Enrique has everything he desires at current club. Another reason he won't come here is he would want too much control for Wilcox liking. I will admit the likes of Alonso and Fabregas are similar level and there's the ex rival player thing too.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

Emery is likely a better manager than Carrick.

But given our previous coach left following a dispute over responsibilities under the "head coach" structure we've sought to implement in recent season, there's a pretty obvious risk in opting for Emery who has insisted on greater control at Villa than pretty much any manager in the league enjoys.

If the person we bring in isn't comfortable operating as a head coach under the existing football structure, we'll be back in the same position again in a matter of months.

The question is temperament/personality to cope with the glare. Emery is a superb coach, but he struggled under the spotlight at Arsenal and PSG. He’s excelled at clubs a rung or two down. One thing in his favour now, over his time at Arsenal, is he has delivered in the Premier League. The job he’s done at Villa is exceptional.

If, as it appears, the cream of the crop management wise are unavailable, I think we either give Carrick something like a 1+1, knowing we might make a change next summer, or, if we’re taking a punt, go for Iraola. Out of the untested ones, I think he’s the outstanding candidate. His teams play the sort of football United fans like. At pace, back to front.

 

[USREDEVIL]

I like Carrick, and i'll be ok if we decide to continue on with him, but i don't think he's the best man for the job. He has so far done very well as an interim and we should probably leave it at that, he's done a great job getting us into a UCL spot (most likely) and set things up for the next man ager. I would get Nagelsmann or Iraola. Emery would be good but i'm not sure he would be accommodating enough for the board so cannot see it.

 

[croadyman]

The question is temperament/personality to cope with the glare. Emery is a superb coach, but he struggled under the spotlight at Arsenal and PSG. He’s excelled at clubs a rung or two down. One thing in his favour now, over his time at Arsenal, is he has delivered in the Premier League. The job he’s done at Villa is exceptional.

If, as it appears, the cream of the crop management wise are unavailable, I think we either give Carrick something like a 1+1, knowing we might make a change next summer, or, if we’re taking a punt, go for Iraola. Out of the untested ones, I think he’s the outstanding candidate. His teams play the sort of football United fans like. At pace, back to front.

Maybe IF I actually believed these lot have the creative thinking to offer a deal like that I might feel more on board with the idea. The other thing that could give me more belief is seeing us linked to high level of technique midfielders due to him.

 

[croadyman]

I like Carrick, and i'll be ok if we decide to continue on with him, but i don't think he's the best man for the job. He has so far done very well as an interim and we should probably leave it at that, he's done a great job getting us into a UCL spot (most likely) and set things up for the next man ager. I would get Nagelsmann or Iraola. Emery would be good but i'm not sure he would be accommodating enough for the board so cannot see it.

Many on here feel that Nagelsmann hasn't done enough with Bayern or Germany and is a bit of hipster manager with his suits and scooter to training too

 

[Marwood]

The question is temperament/personality to cope with the glare. Emery is a superb coach, but he struggled under the spotlight at Arsenal and PSG. He’s excelled at clubs a rung or two down. One thing in his favour now, over his time at Arsenal, is he has delivered in the Premier League. The job he’s done at Villa is exceptional.

If, as it appears, the cream of the crop management wise are unavailable, I think we either give Carrick something like a 1+1, knowing we might make a change next summer, or, if we’re taking a punt, go for Iraola. Out of the untested ones, I think he’s the outstanding candidate. His teams play the sort of football United fans like. At pace, back to front.

How do we know it was him struggling with the attention as opposed to the recruitment and sales of the two clubs?

 

[Red in STL]

I’ve mixed feelings on Carrick. We looked great against City and Arsenal and then we lost Dorgu and have had no left sided attackers available. That’s messed with our shape and made us more predictable.

Leeds was a low point but that’s as much to do with squad and injuries. Martinez and Yoro was not a good partnership neither was Ugarte and Case. That’s not necessarily Carrick’s fault as I don’t know who else you put out there.

When we’ve had the right personnel we’ve looked solid with slick passing and attacks coming from both flanks.

I think the next three matches will make it clear if he has the capabilities to lead United. We’ll play three teams vying for CL spots so if we come out in good standing then he probably deserves a shot next season with an improved and more balanced squad.

Iraola and Glasner don’t fill me with confidence. It’s a big step to manage a team competing in 4 cups. Thomas Frank failed despite having a similar pedigree. Neither of them guarantee success and would be a gamble.

Giving Carrick another season where he’s coaching a team based on what’s available might be the better bet than having a manager come in and changing tact yet again.

That applies to every manager no matter who they are, the same applies to players, anyone who thinks otherwise knows nothing about football

 

[redw]

I see discussions around concerns between him vs other managers out there but one thing we need to keep in mind is that he'll be a head coach, not the manager. Based on that he's quite far behind the other options and from our performances you can't exactly make the point that the team is being coached well.

 

[croadyman]

I’ve mixed feelings on Carrick. We looked great against City and Arsenal and then we lost Dorgu and have had no left sided attackers available. That’s messed with our shape and made us more predictable.

Leeds was a low point but that’s as much to do with squad and injuries. Martinez and Yoro was not a good partnership neither was Ugarte and Case. That’s not necessarily Carrick’s fault as I don’t know who else you put out there.

When we’ve had the right personnel we’ve looked solid with slick passing and attacks coming from both flanks.

I think the next three matches will make it clear if he has the capabilities to lead United. We’ll play three teams vying for CL spots so if we come out in good standing then he probably deserves a shot next season with an improved and more balanced squad.

Iraola and Glasner don’t fill me with confidence. It’s a big step to manage a team competing in 4 cups. Thomas Frank failed despite having a similar pedigree. Neither of them guarantee success and would be a gamble.

Giving Carrick another season where he’s coaching a team based on what’s available might be the better bet than having a manager come in and changing tact yet again.

I don't think Iraola would be changing tact because apparently Ratcliffe wants to implement a pressing style. Well his Bournemouth side is one of the best if not the best pressing sides in the league.

 

[IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos]

How do we know it was him struggling with the attention as opposed to the recruitment and sales of the two clubs?

We don’t. But that’s the one big question mark over him. He’s been absolutely brilliant at Sevilla, Villa and Villarreal, but he struggled at PSG and Arsenal.

At the latter, a lot of it was the media side of things. The whole “good ebening” thing. Stupid the amount of press managers have to do.

 

[Zed is not dead]

The whole point is what your objective actually is. If your goal is to win trophies, then you need an Amorim/ETH-type manager, not a Carrick/Solskjaer-type.

Teams don’t win trophies (league titles or cups) with managers whose approach is based on minimal tactical structure and relies heavily on giving players freedom. This is especially obvious in cup competitions, where a manager has to make tactical adjustments both before and during a single match. Solskjaer against Villareal compared with Erik against City are good examples for that. One froze, other did his homework with his staff.

Carrick and Solskjaer are the type of managers who can, for a season or two, ride the current strength of the squad and finish roughly where that squad belongs in terms of quality. Sit deep away from home, rely on individual quality at home against weaker sides, and that gets you 5th or 6th place.

Long-term, if you want trophies, you need a tactician, not a motivator.

Yup, say this to Zidane or Ancelotti

 

[Zed is not dead]

I don't think Iraola would be changing tact because apparently Ratcliffe wants to implement a pressing style. Well his Bournemouth side is one of the best if not the best pressing sides in the league.

We’ve seen managers like Iraola trying to take the next step and be absolute failures: Potter, Nuno, Frank, de Zerbi, even Poch who I actually rate higher.

The attributes to coach Bournemouth and a top tier club are so different that it doesn’t make sense to base your judgement on achievements with a mid table club.

 

[SoCross]

A bit unrelated perhaps but does it seem like our fitness levels have dropped a bit?

 

[next_number_seven]

I don't think Iraola would be changing tact because apparently Ratcliffe wants to implement a pressing style. Well his Bournemouth side is one of the best if not the best pressing sides in the league.

One of the best pressing sides in Europe

 

[Andycoleno9]

Yup, say this to Zidane or Ancelotti

Saying that those two are "just" motivators is complete nonsense.
Also, there are always few odd examples for everything. Based on our history, we should give every manager 5 or 6 seasons "to get it right".

 

[peridigm]

A bit unrelated perhaps but does it seem like our fitness levels have dropped a bit?

I thought we were supposed to be the most rested side in the league after dumping out of everything but the PL in the first round and not having any European matches.
We just came off an almost 3 week break and we played like it was a dead rubber match. Might well turn out to be but if we're scrambling for that last CL spot come May, the players will reflect on the Leeds match and wonder what could have been.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Saying that those two are "just" motivators is complete nonsense.
Also, there are always few odd examples for everything. Based on our history, we should give every manager 5 or 6 seasons "to get it right".

Also i heard they had some decent players.

 

[Pscholes18]

I keep thinking back to that Newcastle match. Down to ten men, Newcastle scores, and it didn't look like he nor the players knew what to do. Sub in attackers and hope for the best.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I keep thinking back to that Newcastle match. Down to ten men, Newcastle scores, and it didn't look like he nor the players knew what to do. Sub in attackers and hope for the best.

Worst part in that game is that red card was in first half. He had time at half time to make tactical changes for second half.

His first solution was around 70th minute to change Shaw and Case for Ugarte and Dalot.

 

[Zumbi]

The whole point is what your objective actually is. If your goal is to win trophies, then you need an Amorim/ETH-type manager, not a Carrick/Solskjaer-type.

Teams don’t win trophies (league titles or cups) with managers whose approach is based on minimal tactical structure and relies heavily on giving players freedom. This is especially obvious in cup competitions, where a manager has to make tactical adjustments both before and during a single match. Solskjaer against Villareal compared with Erik against City are good examples for that. One froze, other did his homework with his staff.

Carrick and Solskjaer are the type of managers who can, for a season or two, ride the current strength of the squad and finish roughly where that squad belongs in terms of quality. Sit deep away from home, rely on individual quality at home against weaker sides, and that gets you 5th or 6th place.

Long-term, if you want trophies, you need a tactician, not a motivator.

This is a bizarre take on Amorim, who froze in our cup final and got tactically outdone by a woeful Spurs. Who also failed in a cup game against Grimbsy. Indeed, a manager who got tactically outdone by many different managers. We definitely do not need an Amorim like manager if we want to win trophies. Although I don't think Carrick is the right long term option for us, I'd trust him in a one off game over Amorim in a fecking heartbeat, whatever his tactical limitations are.

 

[jem]

I'd take either Emery or Iraola over him in a heartbeat. His lack of decision making in the Leeds game exposed his limitations. He also presided over a 10 man defeat to Newcastle. The warning signs are there.

And some other indifferent performances as well.

 

[jem]

We’ve seen managers like Iraola trying to take the next step and be absolute failures: Potter, Nuno, Frank, de Zerbi, even Poch who I actually rate higher.

The attributes to coach Bournemouth and a top tier club are so different that it doesn’t make sense to base your judgement on achievements with a mid table club.

What was the step up for De Zerbi? Nuno and Frank both tried to bring conservative approaches to a Spurs team whose fans would never get behind that. Iraola doesn’t play that way.

 

[Zed is not dead]

What was the step up for De Zerbi? Nuno and Frank both tried to bring conservative approaches to a Spurs team whose fans would never get behind that. Iraola doesn’t play that way.

Marseille is a step up. He played CL football and got eliminated in an incredible way.

Nuno and Frank tried whatever when they stepped up and fecked up royally. And it was « only » Tottenham where they couldn’t handle the pressure. I’m not sure why Iraola would be any different other than blind belief that somehow he would be the only one to manage such a step up

 

[Godfather]

I'd take either Emery or Iraola over him in a heartbeat. His lack of decision making in the Leeds game exposed his limitations. He also presided over a 10 man defeat to Newcastle. The warning signs are there.

We have generally looked quite poor in most of his games post the Arse and City games

 

[Glorio]

A bit unrelated perhaps but does it seem like our fitness levels have dropped a bit?

It definitely feels like it's been dropping steadily since Carrick began.

 

[Dominos]

Marseille is a step up. He played CL football and got eliminated in an incredible way.

Nuno and Frank tried whatever when they stepped up and fecked up royally. And it was « only » Tottenham where they couldn’t handle the pressure. I’m not sure why Iraola would be any different other than blind belief that somehow he would be the only one to manage such a step up

We can do these extrapolations with everyone.

I'm not sure why Carrick would be any different to Ole who couldn't get out the CL group stage and could only last a few months at Besiktas, other than blind belief. I'm not sure why any manager who's won major trophies would be any different to Mourinho or Van Gaal other than blind belief. I'm not sure why any young highly rated coach in Europe would be any different to Ten Hag and Amorim other than blind belief.

How is Poch getting 86 points with Spurs and reaching a CL final a failure by the way? He won the league by 15 points at PSG and the domestic cup - not impressive but it's par, in an era where Mbappe/Neymar/Messi refused to do any work off the ball they were never winning the CL.

 

[USREDEVIL]

We can do these extrapolations with everyone.

I'm not sure why Carrick would be any different to Ole who couldn't get out the CL group stage and could only last a few months at Besiktas, other than blind belief. I'm not sure why any manager who's won major trophies would be any different to Mourinho or Van Gaal other than blind belief. I'm not sure why any young highly rated coach in Europe would be any different to Ten Hag and Amorim other than blind belief.

How is Poch getting 86 points with Spurs and reaching a CL final a failure by the way? He won the league by 15 points at PSG and the domestic cup - not impressive but it's par, in an era where Mbappe/Neymar/Messi refused to do any work off the ball they were never winning the CL.

the Dominos are beginning to fall

 

[Witchking]

Exactly going the way i feared. It's not the loss, it's the way United lose is always a pain to watch. 2 times this season we have lost to 10 men teams.

Everton at home which was even shameful. Carrick again is in the Ole style of management.

Just being a Vibes FC manager. Placing the players in their strong positions and hope they are in form.

It's also funny seeing everyone in the past 3 weeks singing the CL theme as if United are already there in the CL next season.

I still think Liverpool will finish ahead of United because when United have to fight for anything, post Fergie, it's usually been a dampener. No spine for a fightback.

Except Bruno, Casemiro and Martinez, none of the players can be relied upon 100% in terms of attitude, wanting the ball and trying to play against the tide and make things click.

I expect at least 2 more losses before the season ends. Just hoping Liverpool screw up and so do Chelsea.

Will be shameful finishing behind them after the season they both have had till now.

Every season, we start badly, have a couple of months of sunshine and we all think the corner has been turned and then struggle to finish strongly. This is the case for every manager we have had since 2013.

Even if we finish in the top 4-5, Carrick needs to go and get experience at a lower club unless he plans to bring United to the lower rung.

No charisma, nothing proven tactically, just gets the chance cause he played for United and has a lot of goodwill with the club.

I am tired Robbie!

 

[croadyman]

Exactly going the way i feared. It's not the loss, it's the way United lose is always a pain to watch. 2 times this season we have lost to 10 men teams.

Everton at home which was even shameful. Carrick again is in the Ole style of management.

Just being a Vibes FC manager. Placing the players in their strong positions and hope they are in form.

It's also funny seeing everyone in the past 3 weeks singing the CL theme as if United are already there in the CL next season.

I still think Liverpool will finish ahead of United because when United have to fight for anything, post Fergie, it's usually been a dampener. No spine for a fightback.

Except Bruno, Casemiro and Martinez, none of the players can be relied upon 100% in terms of attitude, wanting the ball and trying to play against the tide and make things click.

I expect at least 2 more losses before the season ends. Just hoping Liverpool screw up and so do Chelsea.

Will be shameful finishing behind them after the season they both have had till now.

Every season, we start badly, have a couple of months of sunshine and we all think the corner has been turned and then struggle to finish strongly. This is the case for every manager we have had since 2013.

Even if we finish in the top 4-5, Carrick needs to go and get experience at a lower club unless he plans to bring United to the lower rung.

No charisma, nothing proven tactically, just gets the chance cause he played for United and has a lot of goodwill with the club.

I am tired Robbie!

I can safely say he won't be going anywhere if we manage to get CL qualification over the line