To be fair he said you're talking "like Fulham is some pub team". And you should care about how others fare against Fulham too, because it's a relative barometer of where the opponent is against oppositions who are in a stronger place than us. Blindly demanding more just because we are at home feels flawed.
Michael Carrick - Head Coach for the remainder of the season
- Thread starter Bastian
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its not. i have certain expectations about how my manager should be and how my team should play at home irrespective of the opponents. The flawed argument here is giving more emphasize on how great the visiting team is and how behind are we in terms of squad building. So many other teams with less resources play with better conviction. So apologies if it hurt the Carrick brigade, but my take will be based on how we perform against other teams at home.
Now please dont tell me we were not expected to win against Fulham at home.
You have to earn that right. Let's not be entitled and spoiled .We are good in attack and it looks like we can score at any time (we scored the winner immediately after conceding twice). Win a few more games like that and teams will start to sit back on their own and eventually you will start seeing the domination.
Very few teams have played Fulham with better conviction. You can't demand things for the sake of it, you have to look at where our squad is at and the time the manager has with them.
No one is in a Carrick brigade here, I'm just calling out your flawed approach to this.
I didn't say we aren't expected to win either. I am saying Fulham have given almost every team a very difficult game and putting them away is a good moment for Carrick.
So you'd rather hamstring the level of success the club can have to fulfill some type of pseudo ideological fantasy rather than doing what every single club in the world does and find the best candidate? Why stop at the manager then. Why not have a squad full of British players?
If anything is baseless, it is your expectations. It wasn't so long ago we couldn't score against an Everton team with 10 men for 80 mins, or could only muster a home draw to hapless Wolves.
You were talking like we had a divine right to "dominate" Fulham. They are a very good, well organized team who have only won one less league game this season than us, Chelsea and Liverpool.
Which is why, I quite rightly pointed out that no other teams are "dominating" Fulham. Nor are very many teams dominating anyone. So in what world do you think we should be doing so?
And incase you have not noticed, we have been dross, home and away, to similar teams for the few years.
We have just beaten the top two teams in the league, plus an on form middle tier team that under prior management we would have likely lost to. Next up Spurs, who we lost to four times last season.
It's a crazy stat that. I wonder when the last time was we lost twice to the team that finishes 17th in the league, never mind 4 times
Footballers and managers aren‘t robots mate….
We are going to have difficulties now and then. And it absolutely matters if Fulham was giving Arsenal and Pool a hard time.
"Manuel is going to be a big part of our squad 
.....between now and the end of the season"
.....between now and the end of the season"
Maybe Carrick an co will get a tune out of him."Manuel is going to be a big part of our squad
.....between now and the end of the season"
Out of curiosity, who are the elite managers who are “available” this summer?
Not the elite managers who might be available if they can be enticed with the right amount of money, maybe, to leave their current post, but actually available.
Not the elite managers who might be available if they can be enticed with the right amount of money, maybe, to leave their current post, but actually available.
You are missing the point. I would suggest to read the post again. That wasn't about Fulham . Its just an example and I stick to it.
Its not about Fulham. Dont make it either. I wont be drawn into it.
Suggest to read the post again.
I'm curious if you're this stringent during Amorim years.
Which is fine. Just stop being a moments FC.
The feck does that mean. Stop having good moments? If some team is playing better you better not have a couple of moments to squeak by with a win you better have possession for 5 minutes before scoring?
I did. The post where you specifically mentioned Fulham and the game chances:
"I wasn't happy how we played against Fulham. Fulham was brilliant but we should have done more . How many chances did we actually create from open play ?
Diallo shot
Mbeumo chance
Sesko header
Sesko goal
Cunha goal"
Above is what you said. You will struggle to find teams this season who have done much more than that. Moreover, you completely ignore where we are as a squad relative to some big hitters (who have also dropped big points to Fulham).
And his post also specifies “from open play”. Don’t know if deliberate wording or not but that stance ignores open play chance that would be created but opposition foul you… the penalty we were given and the penalty we weren’t for example.
They should have been clear chances from open play but are omitted because a shot wasn’t taken? That’s not our fault, that’s an opponent fouling to deny those shots.
I don’t want to be Arsenal who seem to aim for set pieces but if an opponent (and one who were 7th in the league so no mugs) means some of your chances come from set pieces, so be it. The overall style was still clearly there to see… and that’s before we get into a change of coach, a change of formation, three good opponents on the bounce.
Glass half full v glass half empty. Personally, I’m impressed by the performances as much as I’m made up with the nine points.
Come on mate now - Lets not pretend as if you have no idea what I am talking about.
About time we get the next one right and its quite critical too. We have been a moments FC for about a decade now barring a disaster campaign last year.(where we had no moments).
We were moments FC for long periods under Fergie too. Our entire title win in 12/13 was us winning on moments just scoring 1 more than mid table teams.
You must have missed a lot of the Fergie era
The Carrick-train keeps rolling. He has done a fantastic job of creating a good atmosphere and not least better structure in the team. I’m so happy. At the same time i hope we don't fall into the same trap as with Ole and offer Carrick a permanent job. Let’s appreciate what he is doing now and instead bring in a well established manager/coach (summer) who has had a lot of success in the past.
Maybe it’s a chance to get Luis Enrique if we qualify for CL.
Maybe it’s a chance to get Luis Enrique if we qualify for CL.
The permanent position is quite obviously Carrick’s to lose now. He’s not going anywhere if this form continues to the end of the season, nor should he. Anyone saying otherwise is letting bias creep in.
Whether Carrick ends up keeping this ball rolling and getting the job or not, the best thing that has surely come out of this appointment is abolishing the idea of getting in some system coach married to a style like before.
Carrick's tactical set up is really a quite simple one is centred on getting our best players in their best positions. It's really quite obvious isn't it? Surely he is giving the blueprint of what kind of style this team should be able to play to a high level with some top quality players to those above them.
Carrick's tactical set up is really a quite simple one is centred on getting our best players in their best positions. It's really quite obvious isn't it? Surely he is giving the blueprint of what kind of style this team should be able to play to a high level with some top quality players to those above them.
It's not bias at all. We've literally seen Solskjaer go on a similar run, only for appointing him to be a mistake. We know first hand that a run of results alone can be misleading.
Results have to be backed by performances, and look sustainable. If they are, great. If they're not, and if like Solskjaer it looks like unsutainable overperformance, you obviously don't hire him.
Either way, we'll see where we are at the end of the season.
Recruitment is always the key..
If you can get players to the same standard as Mbuemo, Cunha.. you will do good.
We bought a lot of useless players the last few seasons.
If you can get players to the same standard as Mbuemo, Cunha.. you will do good.
We bought a lot of useless players the last few seasons.
I can understand the nervousness of some against Carrick getting the permanent job. There are obvious parallels with Ole. And if there is the chance of securing a serial league and CL winner like Enrique, it's something that needs to be seriously considered.
But if you were someone who thought Amorim deserved more time maybe even as far back as the summer, whilst now thinking Carrick shouldn't get the job in summer if he continues to do a good job... You need to give your head a wobble.
We shouldn't be judging Carrick by different criteria just because he is a former player. He has got this squad playing infinitely better in 4 games compared to anything Amorim achieved in 18 months.
But if you were someone who thought Amorim deserved more time maybe even as far back as the summer, whilst now thinking Carrick shouldn't get the job in summer if he continues to do a good job... You need to give your head a wobble.
We shouldn't be judging Carrick by different criteria just because he is a former player. He has got this squad playing infinitely better in 4 games compared to anything Amorim achieved in 18 months.
Recruitment of coaches should be included in that.
Amorim had these same players and look what he did with them over the first half of the season. I've seen pundits talking about people being back from AFCON but we had a lot of awful results before AFCON started. Cunha looked half the player before Carrick came in.
Square pegs for square slots. Get good players and get a coach who plays in a way that maximises their strengths and minimises their weaknesses. Its no more complicated than that. If Carrick proves to be that, and we cannot get a world class option instead of him, why not stick rather than twist?
We'll batter Spurs 5-0 hatrick for Bruno, job done thanks
Agreed. Signing quality like the 2 you’ve mentioned will help us raise our level even more
It obviously is bias. Ole and Carrick aren’t the same manager and we’re not making a call before the end of the season either way.
I'm saying that regardless of who the manager is, you shouldn't appoint them based on a run of results unless the performances are also good enough.
If you think that's bias, then you quite literally do not understand what the word you are using means. I'm talking about a standard that should be applied to any and every manager.
Solskjaer is just a prime example of why you apply that scrutiny, and how possible it is to have a misleading run of results.
I don’t think you’ve really read any of my posts. Pretty much every single one said we won’t or shouldn’t make a call before the end of the season.
That has nothing to do with what we were talking about. It's a given that we wait until the end of the season, which is why I said we'll see where we are then either way.
You said he should get the job if our form continues. And I'm saying results alone aren't enough because, as we saw with Ole, flukey runs of results happen. If you're hiring someone, you need to be happy with the actual performances you've seen too, and be convinced that they're sustainable. And it's not bias to say you don't make decisions based on results alone. That's just a way of shutting down arguments.
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Agree. If Carrick to some extent manage to continue like this until the end of the season he is likely not a bad option. I prefer Carrick above managers in the second tier category, like ETH, Amorim, Glasner, Howe.
Carrick isn’t competitive against top tier managers like Luis Enrique or Nagelsmann. If we are able to appoint a top notch manager we can't take the risk of hiring Carrick even if we continue to play like today the rest of the season.
I said he should stay on if this form continues until the end of the season. Of course he should. The bias is the whole “yeah but Ole…” thing, as if that has any relevance whatsoever.
I can't tell if you're not actually reading my posts, or just not understanding them, so I'm just going to end this repetitive discussion here.
Won 4 in a row, against arsenal, city, Fulham, and spurs. No one would've expected that. If we continue playing as well as we hsve been, we'll get top 4. I'd give him the job if that happens
Setting the team up in the right way is the most important basic thing and he’s done that. Every player is important. Even those on the bench. They feel they have something to play for. He has injected life into each and every player, even those who arent getting lots of minutes. Subbing Fletcher on shows how he cares about integrating youngsters. He’s been massive!