Michael Carrick - Head Coach for the remainder of the season

[Zen]

Why are people (I see Chris Sutton getting a thing on BBC) obsessed with comparing him to Ole.

Given the amount of managers the club has had now, they'll be a direct comparison to post-Fergie failure regardless of who they get unless it's essentially Klopp or Pep, neither happening.

So why is the Ole one the only one that sticks as a reason to not hire someone?

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Also goes to show that good managers/coaches tend to make a difference quickly. You don’t need a full year of getting embarrassed and playing some of the worst football in the league just for the sake of “progress”

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Why are people (I see Chris Sutton getting a thing on BBC) obsessed with comparing him to Ole.

Given the amount of managers the club has had now, they'll be a direct comparison to post-Fergie failure regardless of who they get unless it's essentially Klopp or Pep, neither happening.

So why is the Ole one the only one that sticks as a reason to not hire someone?

Ex United player interim. That’s basically the only similarity. We don’t even play the same style of football that we played under Ole.

 

[sullydnl]

Everything you’ve said is suggestive of not thinking the performances have been strong enough, hence the tangent of possession stats. So there’s no strawmen here I’m afraid.

The performances have been much stronger than anyone could reasonably expect them to be given how difficult the games were. Carrick has done great so far.

And as I said earlier, Carrick hasn't yet had the opportunity to show us he can set the team up to consistently dominate in possession, and turn the games we dominate into results. He just hasn't had those sort of games yet.

Saying that we need to see him do that to be a convincing appointment as permanent manager isn't criticism, or bias, or a sign that I'm unhappy with the performances so far, or proof that I don't think he has enough in the long term. Those are all things you're projecting onto this conversation, often directly at odds with what I've actually written.

So, in my third attempt at politely ending this conversation: for the love of god stop.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Also goes to show that good managers/coaches tend to make a difference quickly. You don’t need a full year of getting embarrassed and playing some of the worst football in the league just for the sake of “progress”

That’s the biggest lie sold to us by everyone of these philosophers.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

That’s the biggest lie sold to us by everyone of these philosophers.

There’s so many examples of managers having an instant positive impact, but because Arteta ended up working out and Fergie took some time 40 fecking years ago, it means every manager needs a full year before ever taking any blame for his team playing like crap or actually improving them.

 

[Zen86]

The performances have been much stronger than anyone could reasonably expect them to be given how difficult the games were. Carrick has done great so far.

And as I said earlier, Carrick hasn't yet had the opportunity to show us he can set the team up to consistently dominate in possession, and turn the games we dominate into results

Saying that he needs to do so at some point to be a convincing appointment as permanent manager isn't criticism, or bias, or a sign that I'm unhappy with the performances so far, or proof that I don't think he has enough in the long term. Those are all things you're projecting onto this conversation, often directly at odds with what I've actually written.

So, in my third attempt at politely ending this conversation: for the love of god stop.

No! You shut up!

My point was mainly around the last four games being fantastic and if that continued until the end of the season, Carrick deserves to be given the permanent position. But there’s a bizarre ghost of Ole surrounding his appointment and there is definitely a sentiment amongst some that it’s history repeating. Basically that it doesn’t matter what happens, he’s doomed to the same fate. That was what my bias comment was referring to.

But anyway, agree that there’s no use in arguing about it. Life is too short. Hopefully the points continue to come in.

 

[Lebo]

Obviously, yes.

The point is trying to project how good Carrick can make us going forward. And we know the best teams tend to dominate possession. So wins where we dominate opponents on the ball are obviously more promising than wins where our opponents have more of the ball. Especially when winning when we have a lot of the ball is something we've particularly struggled with. It's absolutely bizarre that you would argue otherwise.

One of the best champions league performances during SAFs era was the 7-1 against Roma. We looked by far the better team with 49% ball possession. Our game against Barcelona in 2009 was 52-48. I’m pretty sure that game was not as close as the position seem to suggest.

 

[Zed is not dead]

What’s with that obsession with possession.

Control and possession are two very different things.

 

[Garethw]

He’s shown what an absolute fraud Amorim was.

 

[Zen86]

One of the best champions league performances during SAFs era was the 7-1 against Roma. We looked by far the better team with 49% ball possession. Our game against Barcelona in 2009 was 52-48. I’m pretty sure that game was not as close as the position seem to suggest.

We were never a possession team under Fergie. We would often have it when teams sat back against us, which was often the case, but it wasn’t our game plan per se. Certainly not in the same mould as the possession-based teams of today. We were always more direct and comfortable with or without the ball.

 

[caisenma]

Also goes to show that good managers/coaches tend to make a difference quickly. You don’t need a full year of getting embarrassed and playing some of the worst football in the league just for the sake of “progress”

100 per cent correct. We knew we had a good team on paper this year… last year, fine… but our signings have all been good this year and it really was as simple as getting a proper manager / coach in the door to unlock them

 

[sullydnl]

One of the best champions league performances during SAFs era was the 7-1 against Roma. We looked by far the better team with 49% ball possession. Our game against Barcelona in 2009 was 52-48. I’m pretty sure that game was not as close as the position seem to suggest.

Absolutely. In individual games I don't just think it's fine for us to have less possession, those are some of my favourite wins.

But if you want to consistently challenge for league titles, you inevitably expect to be near the top of the table for average possession at the end of the season. That was true of SAF's teams, and it is true of top teams generally.

Not least because having a quality advantage over most of the league inherently lends itself to having more of the ball than the mostly weaker teams you face. Even if you are not what we think of as a possession-orientated team, you still end up with more possession than most of the league if you are one of the best teams in that league.

And in our case especially over the last 10 years (but particularly this season), games where would expect to have more of the ball and turn it into an advantage have been a problem. So it's particularly worth paying attention to.

Whoever the manager we hire is, you need to be believe that they will be able to solve that problem by consistently dominating possession against weaker opponents, and turn that dominance into advantage. Because if they're not doing that, they will struggle to get the consistency of results required here.

It's why I would never hire someone like Glasner as manager, because his Palace team don't set up to do that. And it's why I want to see how Carrick does in those sort of games, which he hasn't really had the chance to do yet.

 

[Ekeke]

Why are people (I see Chris Sutton getting a thing on BBC) obsessed with comparing him to Ole.

Given the amount of managers the club has had now, they'll be a direct comparison to post-Fergie failure regardless of who they get unless it's essentially Klopp or Pep, neither happening.

So why is the Ole one the only one that sticks as a reason to not hire someone?

I think he should be compared to him because he too came in and we did well when he was in temporary charge. But just because it didnt work with Ole doesnt mean it wont with Carrick. We should compare but not draw conclusions based on 1 previous manager. Else you could argue "lets not get an experienced premier league winning manager because Jose Mourinho didnt work out in the end". If 1 manager means we cant hire anyone else like them, then we'd be left with no candidates. So compare but be sensible

As a reminder it was 14 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat under Ole. So yes he really was great as a temporary manager and then he really wasnt as a full time manager. But Carrick has time till the end of the season to show that he has more depth to his managerial abilities and it isnt just about being on a good run. Chances are Carrick's record wont be quite as good and maybe we'll have more than 1 defeat and itll be interesting to see if we get some draws and defeats if Carrick can get us going again bouncing back. Because thats where Ole came up short. When things werent going as well he looked as helpless as the rest of our managers to get things back on track.

 

[Stadjer]

Ex United player interim. That’s basically the only similarity. We don’t even play the same style of football that we played under Ole.

Both sacked by championship clubs and both dont have the experience as a manager that you would expect for a Manchester United manager. Ofcourse they are not the same but pretending they have no similarities is also not fair.

What they also have in common is that they started off their job as caretaker extremely well!

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

We’ve only lost 2 games in our last 19 Premier League games. We’ve stopped the losing culture finally that set in over the last 2 years.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

I’m just absolutely loving football at the moment. It’s great to see these players click, and to see Carrick in the dugout.

 

[Waywestofthere]

Knighthood before or after he gets the permanent job?

 

[podurban2]

The Ole comparisons are understandable, and also healthy I guess.

I’ll say this, Carrick is a much more leader-type while Ole gave the vibes of winning the lottery, Carrick seems like a type that feels the pressure and can handle it despite winning streaks and difficulties.

I just think personality wise there is such a gap in who they are, with Carrick giving me the confidence he can handle it. I’d be thrilled to see him succeed.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Robbie Boy]

Absolutely fantastic start to his reign.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Berbasbullet]

Outstanding start to the job, see how he does when we lose a game or two and the pressure is on.

So pleased for him, he seems like a great guy and is a United great.

 

[Isotope]

Probably some prefer us to be suffering first, and somehow to be able to enjoy winning games.

 

[El Jefe]

I'm a massive Carrick fan, player and person and probably manager too but I think we should keep this to just an interim spell.

I've thought a lot about it and my reason is that Amorim being so shite is really clouding our judgement here. This is a team that is showing that just doing the mere basics will make us competitive. Carrick is not doing anything special but respecting the club and the league in a way Amorim and Ten Hag chose not to.

I also think the current conditions we are in now will never be replicated. We are in one competition and playing once a week with close enough to a full squad. When the expectations change to winning cups and challenging for the league, the circumstances will be completely different for Carrick.

With how the league is setup, we are closer to Liverpool and City than we have been in years and Arsenal don't look to be too far away. Getting a top class manager proven in a top league or CL could be our ticket to bridging that gap for good. Carrick is still a gamble at this point.

 

[Isotope]

Ch

feck this. Cheesy stuff like this, just gets me teary eyes. I love it.

 

[gaffs]

He is getting the job boys. It is not even an discussion point anymore.

 

[Ole's screen]

I'm a massive Carrick fan, player and person and probably manager too but I think we should keep this to just an interim spell.

I've thought a lot about it and my reason is that Amorim being so shite is really clouding our judgement here. This is a team that is showing that just doing the mere basics will make us competitive. Carrick is not doing anything special but respecting the club and the league in a way Amorim and Ten Hag chose not to.

I also think the current conditions we are in now will never be replicated. We are in one competition and playing once a week with close enough to a full squad. When the expectations change to winning cups and challenging for the league, the circumstances will be completely different for Carrick.

With how the league is setup, we are closer to Liverpool and City than we have been in years and Arsenal don't look to be too far away. Getting a top class manager proven in a top league or CL could be our ticket to bridging that gap for good. Carrick is still a gamble at this point.

There's a bigger chance that the next manager would like their players and their philosophy though. I could easily see it taking some settling in period.

Also think you're really underselling Carrick's work if you think he's "just doing the mere basics". He's a very astute tactical manager and has made important tactical tweaks in each of our games and generally has been good diagnosing issues in game and fixing them. A great plus I think is how we usually tend to come out performing much better in the second half.

"Carrick is not doing anything special but respecting the club and the league in a way Amorim and Ten Hag chose not to."

This is bordering on disrespectful honestly.

 

[Bo_devil]

I'm a massive Carrick fan, player and person and probably manager too but I think we should keep this to just an interim spell.

I've thought a lot about it and my reason is that Amorim being so shite is really clouding our judgement here. This is a team that is showing that just doing the mere basics will make us competitive. Carrick is not doing anything special but respecting the club and the league in a way Amorim and Ten Hag chose not to.

I also think the current conditions we are in now will never be replicated. We are in one competition and playing once a week with close enough to a full squad. When the expectations change to winning cups and challenging for the league, the circumstances will be completely different for Carrick.

With how the league is setup, we are closer to Liverpool and City than we have been in years and Arsenal don't look to be too far away. Getting a top class manager proven in a top league or CL could be our ticket to bridging that gap for good. Carrick is still a gamble at this point.

He's doing well, i'm not chalking it all down to him though, appointing Holland was a shrewd move. They seem to be dovetailing well off each other. Carrick might not be the type to tell the players to work hard or you're out, but Holland is.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

He is getting the job boys. It is not even an discussion point anymore.

The idea that we could comfortably finish 3rd playing the stuff we do right now week in and week out and people being mad that he gets the job full time is hilarious to me.

We continue like this and he absolutely should get the job. It’s not even a question for me.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

He's doing well, i'm not chalking it all down to him though, appointing Holland was a shrewd move.

Yep was an excellent choice and shows he knows where he screwed up at Boro.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Feel like a footballer and respected for another season with us Uncle Case!

 

[Orange Tree]

I'd say the performance against City and Spurs were dominant.Granted it was against 10 men Spurs for 2/3 of the game, but they barely had a sniff at our goal.

 

[Apokalips]

To be honest, I think Carrick has been phenomenal with the players (from what we see). This is a bunch that have had constant narrative from the media, fans and their own manager, that they were the worst United squad ever.

Being a head coach/manager is about man management as much as it is tactical nous and Amorim lacked that. His behaviour towards Garnacho was childish, no self-respecting manager should either have the outburst telling him to find a new club nor should they be bitching about missed chances when a player is disappointed to not start a big final. Imagine Fergie said he dropped Berbatov in 2011 CL final because he missed a chance against Aston Villa or something - he likely wouldn't!

Amorim relegated a young talent like Kobbie to the bench with no real hope of getting a decent amount of minutes because he was only allowed to come on for Bruno bloody Fernandes. Kobbie had every right to wish for a loan, in fact he had every right to think about leaving permanently but he clearly wants to make it happen at United. You see the way players like Martinez, Cunha and Casemiro have taken to Carrick and jump on him to celebrate because they are not only happy for themselves but for him too. They will have seen all of the coverage when we announced him as Interim and the extreme amount of criticism before a ball was kicked.

Carrick mentioned that Evans played a big part in the corner routine today and that demonstrates yet more man management and social awareness to give his coach props considering the criticism of Evans even being part of the coaching staff, which I find weird considering I heard that a few of Amorim's coaches had no badges themselves. Anyway, Carrick seems very intelligent and thoughtful as a coach, much in the same way he was as a player and a person (according to his ex-teammates). I will forever be grateful to him for contributing to such great success in my lifetime and for coming in with no fuss and showing people that Manchester United is not dead and we do not need to suffer. It has been forever and a day since I felt so happy as a United fan and it is so good to see so many fellow fans happy for a change. Let's enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[Rolaholic]

To be honest, I think Carrick has been phenomenal with the players (from what we see). This is a bunch that have had constant narrative from the media, fans and their own manager, that they were the worst United squad ever.

Being a head coach/manager is about man management as much as it is tactical nous and Amorim lacked that. His behaviour towards Garnacho was childish, no self-respecting manager should either have the outburst telling him to find a new club nor should they be bitching about missed chances when a player is disappointed to not start a big final. Imagine Fergie said he dropped Berbatov in 2011 CL final because he missed a chance against Aston Villa or something - he likely wouldn't!

Amorim relegated a young talent like Kobbie to the bench with no real hope of getting a decent amount of minutes because he was only allowed to come on for Bruno bloody Fernandes. Kobbie had every right to wish for a loan, in fact he had every right to think about leaving permanently but he clearly wants to make it happen at United. You see the way players like Martinez, Cunha and Casemiro have taken to Carrick and jump on him to celebrate because they are not only happy for themselves but for him too. They will have seen all of the coverage when we announced him as Interim and the extreme amount of criticism before a ball was kicked.

Carrick mentioned that Evans played a big part in the corner routine today and that demonstrates yet more man management and social awareness to give his coach props considering the criticism of Evans even being part of the coaching staff, which I find weird considering I heard that a few of Amorim's coaches had no badges themselves. Anyway, Carrick seems very intelligent and thoughtful as a coach, much in the same way he was as a player and a person (according to his ex-teammates). I will forever be grateful to him for contributing to such great success in my lifetime and for coming in with no fuss and showing people that Manchester United is not dead and we do not need to suffer. It has been forever and a day since I felt so happy as a United fan and it is so good to see so many fellow fans happy for a change. Let's enjoy it while it lasts.

Great post and summarizes my thoughts on Carrick so far as well

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Ole's screen]

To be honest, I think Carrick has been phenomenal with the players (from what we see). This is a bunch that have had constant narrative from the media, fans and their own manager, that they were the worst United squad ever.

Being a head coach/manager is about man management as much as it is tactical nous and Amorim lacked that. His behaviour towards Garnacho was childish, no self-respecting manager should either have the outburst telling him to find a new club nor should they be bitching about missed chances when a player is disappointed to not start a big final. Imagine Fergie said he dropped Berbatov in 2011 CL final because he missed a chance against Aston Villa or something - he likely wouldn't!

Amorim relegated a young talent like Kobbie to the bench with no real hope of getting a decent amount of minutes because he was only allowed to come on for Bruno bloody Fernandes. Kobbie had every right to wish for a loan, in fact he had every right to think about leaving permanently but he clearly wants to make it happen at United. You see the way players like Martinez, Cunha and Casemiro have taken to Carrick and jump on him to celebrate because they are not only happy for themselves but for him too. They will have seen all of the coverage when we announced him as Interim and the extreme amount of criticism before a ball was kicked.

Carrick mentioned that Evans played a big part in the corner routine today and that demonstrates yet more man management and social awareness to give his coach props considering the criticism of Evans even being part of the coaching staff, which I find weird considering I heard that a few of Amorim's coaches had no badges themselves. Anyway, Carrick seems very intelligent and thoughtful as a coach, much in the same way he was as a player and a person (according to his ex-teammates). I will forever be grateful to him for contributing to such great success in my lifetime and for coming in with no fuss and showing people that Manchester United is not dead and we do not need to suffer. It has been forever and a day since I felt so happy as a United fan and it is so good to see so many fellow fans happy for a change. Let's enjoy it while it lasts.

Great post.

 

[rockhopperpenguin21]

Carrick has been fantastic no doubt. If he gets the job he's going to need to be able to manage fragile egos, ease players out, get the right players in etc. For that he either needs a more experienced assistant and/or for the shit show management hierarchy to step up.

 

[CM]

He’s shown what an absolute fraud Amorim was.

Yep. Irrespective of how the rest of the run goes, at least we don't have to entertain any more conversations defending Amorim's baffling tactical choices, of which there were many.

 

[gajender]

Carrick has been fantastic no doubt. If he gets the job he's going to need to be able to manage fragile egos, ease players out, get the right players in etc. For that he either needs a more experienced assistant and/or for the shit show management hierarchy to step up.

Irrespective of who our next coach is it's not their job , surely they would be consulted but they won't have the final word .