Michael Carrick - Head Coach for the remainder of the season

[Teja]

We kept too many players back while lacking options across the front line.

There were so many instances where WH left acres of space for us to exploit on their left, but Dalot stayed in the back to help build up (even though they only had Taty pressing). I don't know if this was poor decision making on Dalot's part or instructions he was given but Carrick should have adjusted.

I think partly issues due to squad building. Dalot is playing as the 3rd CB (which is fine, great profiling for him) but that means the LB needs to be a lot more aggressive. It could be a Calafiori type that just floats about and occupies interesting spaces or it could be a pure wing back who bombs forward or whatever but what we have is post injury Luke Shaw.

If we had a left winger that can hug the touchline and provide width, it's not a big deal. Shaw can stay deep, we can get Dalot to attack. But the situation is Cunha wants to come inside, Shaw doesn't have the legs to bomb up and down the pitch the full 90 and that means we have 6 players sort of hanging out in the deep without committing forward.

 

[mav_9me]

Carrick record of 4 wins and a draw is undeniably impressive but I still have reservations. 3 of those 4 wins came at Old Trafford and we tend to raise our game against the so called ‘big teams’ at home even under previous managers. We also benefited from playing just one game a week which has given Carrick more time on the training ground and less squad rotation to worry about.

For me, the true test of whether we genuinely turned a corner isnt how we perform against the top sides at Old Trafford but whether we can go to places like West Ham, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Brentford and Brighton and come away with convincing wins. Those are the fixtures that have tripped us up for years and the ones that separate good sides from genuine contenders. I also want to see whether Carrick would have the authority to drop underperformers even someone like Bruno if his form dips. Amazing start but I need more evidence.

Having said that, I hope we finish in the top four and Carrick gets the job full time. But the real test will come next season when form dips, egos need managing and the fixtures start piling up.

There's no way we are going to these places and getting wins let alone convincing wins.

1. Teams across the league are so much better. Even arsenal the clear best team in the league had a torrid time yesterday. (From the highlights looked lucky to get a draw)

2. We need to strengthen the spine of our team. We need a more physical CM partner to Mainoo and a more physical CB in there, maybe Yoro developing and taking over from Maguire.

Carrick can't do anything about either issues.

 

[Bo_devil]

It's not always on the manager to unlock these low blocks, sometimes it can be a moment of brilliance from an individual player. Ronaldo was notorious for punishing the smaller teams.

 

[RedSince82]

Wkith Ancelotti and Enrique out kf the equation and Poch provably going to Spurs this summer. We may as well firm up Carrick.

I dont think the role of manager is as important as it used to be since scouting and buying players is not in the managers remit anymore. Its been a long time since Clough and Taylor would drive up the M1 to go watch someone before making a bid.

All Carrick has to do is provide a functioning 4231 to include the players wilcox and vivell bring in. Its clear he is very capable of that. Plus he is picking the right players in the right positions


Why tear up the good will for someone like De Zerbi or Iraola?

 

[red_de_pologne]

Wkith Ancelotti and Enrique out kf the equation and Poch provably going to Spurs this summer. We may as well firm up Carrick.

I dont think the role of manager is as important as it used to be since scouting and buying players is not in the managers remit anymore. Its been a long time since Clough and Taylor would drive up the M1 to go watch someone before making a bid.

All Carrick has to do is provide a functioning 4231 to include the players wilcox and vivell bring in. Its clear he is very capable of that. Plus he is picking the right players in the right positions


Why tear up the good will for someone like De Zerbi or Iraola?

That's obviously nonsense, if that was the case clubs wouldn't spend fortune on hiring and firing managers.

Psychology - motivation - tactics are still huge part of football

 

[Bobby_2024]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foo...S&cvid=69903059574f421dbf9414e26173dc2b&ei=16

Manchester United are actually one of the most in-form teams in the world – and that is something you might not realise.

It is their first appearance in the top 10 since September 2023, a span of 878 days, dating back to Erik ten Hag’s time in charge.

United hold a performance rank of 92.4/100, just ahead of Real Madrid’s 92.3 – a small gap that still reflects how close it is between both clubs right now.

 

[RedSince82]

That's obviously nonsense, if that was the case clubs wouldn't spend fortune on hiring and firing managers.

Psychology - motivation - tactics are still huge part of football

Then why do clubs like Brighton and Brentford perform the same season after season regardless of manager change?

The role of the manager is massively diminished. A reliable, don't do anything stupid manager (the antithesis of Amorim) would do perfectly well if the recruitment is on point, and said manager is handed a good squad of players.

Why do people like Potter and Frank seem like good managers, then go to other clubs and fail so badly? The reason is because the manager is just the tip of the iceberg. The support network is the most important thing.

Surely a united fan could understand this point? A conveyer belt of top managers have failed at united because of the lack of support from above.

 

[RedSince82]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/foo...S&cvid=69903059574f421dbf9414e26173dc2b&ei=16

Manchester United are actually one of the most in-form teams in the world – and that is something you might not realise.

It is their first appearance in the top 10 since September 2023, a span of 878 days, dating back to Erik ten Hag’s time in charge.

United hold a performance rank of 92.4/100, just ahead of Real Madrid’s 92.3 – a small gap that still reflects how close it is between both clubs right now.

There is far too much doom and gloom around the place. Fact is the squad is brim full of talented players and should we qualify for the CL, we will compete very well next year after some summer additions.

I believe Ratcliff is correct to say that he has improved the club.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Then why do clubs like Brighton and Brentford perform the same season after season regardless of manager change?

The role of the manager is massively diminished. A reliable, don't do anything stupid manager (the antithesis of Amorim) would do perfectly well if the recruitment is on point, and said manager is handed a good squad of players.

Why do people like Potter and Frank seem like good managers, then go to other clubs and fail so badly? The reason is because the manager is just the tip of the iceberg. The support network is the most important thing.

Surely a united fan could understand this point? A conveyer belt of top managers have failed at united because of the lack of support from above.

Brighton's league postion over last 5 years:

16th, 9th, 6th, 11th, 8th, 14th now

Brentford's

Championship, 13th, 9th, 16th, 10th, 7th now

That's just normal upper/mid table fluctuation.

Potter and Frank are text book examples of failing when expectations are higher, has the "support network" change drastically at Chelsea for different managers?

Man-management and tactics play huge part in football. Managing is more than just putting players in their prefferred positions.

 

[RedSince82]

Brighton's league postion over last 5 years:

16th, 9th, 6th, 11th, 8th, 14th now

Brentford's

Championship, 13th, 9th, 16th, 10th, 7th now

That's just normal upper/mid table fluctuation.

Potter and Frank are text book examples of failing when expectations are higher, has the "support network" change drastically at Chelsea for different managers?

Man-management and tactics play huge part in football. Managing is more than just putting players in their prefferred positions.

Lowly positions for united, but punching for Brighton and Brentford.

Of course tactics play a part. But squad building and having good players plays a bigger part.

 

[always_hoping]

For the day that's in it.

 

[Hammondo]

Wkith Ancelotti and Enrique out kf the equation and Poch provably going to Spurs this summer. We may as well firm up Carrick.

I dont think the role of manager is as important as it used to be since scouting and buying players is not in the managers remit anymore. Its been a long time since Clough and Taylor would drive up the M1 to go watch someone before making a bid.

All Carrick has to do is provide a functioning 4231 to include the players wilcox and vivell bring in. Its clear he is very capable of that. Plus he is picking the right players in the right positions


Why tear up the good will for someone like De Zerbi or Iraola?

I think it's probably more important, teams are a lot more organised and tactical now. I think the manager role has changed though.

 

[Zoo]

 

[horsechoker]

Jacey playing Lacey one day

 

[Satnev scholsey]

Wkith Ancelotti and Enrique out kf the equation and Poch provably going to Spurs this summer. We may as well firm up Carrick.

I dont think the role of manager is as important as it used to be since scouting and buying players is not in the managers remit anymore. Its been a long time since Clough and Taylor would drive up the M1 to go watch someone before making a bid.

All Carrick has to do is provide a functioning 4231 to include the players wilcox and vivell bring in. Its clear he is very capable of that. Plus he is picking the right players in the right positions


Why tear up the good will for someone like De Zerbi or Iraola?

Pochetino shouldn't even be considered.

 

[sullydnl]

Pochetino shouldn't even be considered.

I think it's a near certainty he's going to Spurs anyway given they were chanting for him even before Frank got sacked, but agree.

 

[sullydnl]

 

[NLunited]

For those that banned twitter, can you post a link?

 

[sullydnl]

For those that banned twitter, can you post a link?

Quite a positive discussion about how we've set up under Carrick.

 

[Bo_devil]

With that said, we were a bit more cagey in the West ham game. The commentator even touched on it, that both teams didn't want to risk too much. The draw was a good/fair result.

 

[the_12th_devil]

Did Amorim benefit from this when we couldn't buy a win?

I am not having a go at Carrick at all. Hes doing a great job. But I do think we benefited from playing once a week without any midweek distractions. Imagine having two full weeks to prepare for Everton I voted for Carrick to be the next Utd manager and I genuinely hope he gets the job full time. Still, I cant shake this small doubt in the back of my mind. When Ole came in, we won 14 of his first 19 games including his first 8 consecutive PL matches and he rightly got the job. But then we only won 2 of the next 12 losing eight of them. I am not suggesting the same thing will happen under Carrick but you can probably understand where I am coming from. So many times we built up hope after putting a run of wins together under Jose, Ole, Ten Hag and even recently under Amorim when we won 3 in a row and it felt like we turned a corner. I really hope this recent upturn in form is genuine.

 

[the_12th_devil]

There's no way we are going to these places and getting wins let alone convincing wins.

1. Teams across the league are so much better. Even arsenal the clear best team in the league had a torrid time yesterday. (From the highlights looked lucky to get a draw)

2. We need to strengthen the spine of our team. We need a more physical CM partner to Mainoo and a more physical CB in there, maybe Yoro developing and taking over from Maguire.

Carrick can't do anything about either issues.

Convincing might not be the right word. Lets say performing at a similar level to how we did in those games we won under Carrick. For me, the real sign that we turned the corner will be when we start beating those teams away from home. Chelsea and Liverpool are just behind us so I am hoping we can pick up points against them. We really should be playing CL football next season for so many reasons. Lets hope we smash Everton. I still get a headache thinking about when we lost to them at home with10 men.

 

[Satnev scholsey]

I am not having a go at Carrick at all. Hes doing a great job. But I do think we benefited from playing once a week without any midweek distractions. Imagine having two full weeks to prepare for Everton I voted for Carrick to be the next Utd manager and I genuinely hope he gets the job full time. Still, I cant shake this small doubt in the back of my mind. When Ole came in, we won 14 of his first 19 games including his first 8 consecutive PL matches and he rightly got the job. But then we only won 2 of the next 12 losing eight of them. I am not suggesting the same thing will happen under Carrick but you can probably understand where I am coming from. So many times we built up hope after putting a run of wins together under Jose, Ole, Ten Hag and even recently under Amorim when we won 3 in a row and it felt like we turned a corner. I really hope this recent upturn in form is genuine.

My concern exactly. It has to be more than the "feel good factor" because that is obviously not sustainable as was the case with Ole. I feel like we should judge only at the end of the season to get the full picture; what needs to be looked at beyond results is whether Carrick learns quickly from game to game and within games as well and the resulting performances.

And hopefully, he does well enough, his input into what we need will also be important. I was watching some matches from the noughties and honestly back then, i took the quality of players we had for granted; another level to what we currently have all over the pitch.

 

[2 man midfield]

I am not having a go at Carrick at all. Hes doing a great job. But I do think we benefited from playing once a week without any midweek distractions. Imagine having two full weeks to prepare for Everton I voted for Carrick to be the next Utd manager and I genuinely hope he gets the job full time. Still, I cant shake this small doubt in the back of my mind. When Ole came in, we won 14 of his first 19 games including his first 8 consecutive PL matches and he rightly got the job. But then we only won 2 of the next 12 losing eight of them. I am not suggesting the same thing will happen under Carrick but you can probably understand where I am coming from. So many times we built up hope after putting a run of wins together under Jose, Ole, Ten Hag and even recently under Amorim when we won 3 in a row and it felt like we turned a corner. I really hope this recent upturn in form is genuine.

Yeah I'm wary of that happening again as well. The thing with Ole is we waited until he started losing to give him the job! I'd like to think we won't be hasty, and we'll have a decent look at what Carrick can do before deciding. As you say though, I do wish we had a few more midweek games to see what he's about, different tests etc. As it is, 17 PL games might not be enough to get a full picture.

 

[bosnian_red]

I am not having a go at Carrick at all. Hes doing a great job. But I do think we benefited from playing once a week without any midweek distractions. Imagine having two full weeks to prepare for Everton I voted for Carrick to be the next Utd manager and I genuinely hope he gets the job full time. Still, I cant shake this small doubt in the back of my mind. When Ole came in, we won 14 of his first 19 games including his first 8 consecutive PL matches and he rightly got the job. But then we only won 2 of the next 12 losing eight of them. I am not suggesting the same thing will happen under Carrick but you can probably understand where I am coming from. So many times we built up hope after putting a run of wins together under Jose, Ole, Ten Hag and even recently under Amorim when we won 3 in a row and it felt like we turned a corner. I really hope this recent upturn in form is genuine.

Yeah I'm wary of that happening again as well. The thing with Ole is we waited until he started losing to give him the job! I'd like to think we won't be hasty, and we'll have a decent look at what Carrick can do before deciding. As you say though, I do wish we had a few more midweek games to see what he's about, different tests etc. As it is, 17 PL games might not be enough to get a full picture.

Even then with Ole though, the next 2 full seasons he did pretty well in. 3rd and 2nd, just failed to win a cup competition and obviously reached his limit, but he still did well to stabilize us. I would gladly take similar league years for the next 2 years to what we had with Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, and you just hope we go one step further in the cups and win one or we compete better in the CL rather than competing for the Europa league.

 

[Teja]

I am not having a go at Carrick at all. Hes doing a great job. But I do think we benefited from playing once a week without any midweek distractions. Imagine having two full weeks to prepare for Everton I voted for Carrick to be the next Utd manager and I genuinely hope he gets the job full time. Still, I cant shake this small doubt in the back of my mind. When Ole came in, we won 14 of his first 19 games including his first 8 consecutive PL matches and he rightly got the job. But then we only won 2 of the next 12 losing eight of them. I am not suggesting the same thing will happen under Carrick but you can probably understand where I am coming from. So many times we built up hope after putting a run of wins together under Jose, Ole, Ten Hag and even recently under Amorim when we won 3 in a row and it felt like we turned a corner. I really hope this recent upturn in form is genuine.

Yeah I'm wary of that happening again as well. The thing with Ole is we waited until he started losing to give him the job! I'd like to think we won't be hasty, and we'll have a decent look at what Carrick can do before deciding. As you say though, I do wish we had a few more midweek games to see what he's about, different tests etc. As it is, 17 PL games might not be enough to get a full picture.

I think we'll get a decent enough picture with half a season -- we'll see how he does against low blocks, against mid table sides (Fulhams, Brightons and Brentfords of the world), and against top sides and we'll have enough to form opinions.

So far for me:

+ Incredible player profiling, no square pegs - round holes type problems. Doing this with a squad that was part way through morphing into a 3-4-3 is particularly noteworthy. It was so easy to say I'll only play one of Amad / Mbeumo on the RW or that Cunha doesn't fit at LW. But he's getting the best players in the squad to play together.
+ Small tactical tweaks he makes between games are great.
+ Very flexible, tried Cunha left for a few games, bought him in at CF with Mbeumo on the left. Constantly trying new things and adapting.
+ Man management is good. Players buying into the project.
+ Game management / subs were good in all games but still TBD.

~ In possession (Build up play / open play chance creation): Need to see more. I think he's shown enough ideas on build up and attack (cue the Cunha - Bruno - Cunha - Bruno - Luke Shaw rondo track) but need to see us build up better and create chances consistently through the middle. Too reliant on these little flicks once we get to the final 3rd. Build up not totally comfortable.

- Pressing was very bad - esp. against Fulham but against West Ham as well. He's getting bailed out by attackers working ridiculously hard to get back in shape. If we do this in a season with Europe and cup games, they will start falling like flies.

- Open play defence. I know the xGA is great and everything but it doesn't look very comfortable.

 

[criticalanalysis]

- Pressing was very bad - esp. against Fulham but against West Ham as well. He's getting bailed out by attackers working ridiculously hard to get back in shape. If we do this in a season with Europe and cup games, they will start falling like flies.

This is a good point but it's something that's been ever present for the last 3-4 years though. Under ETH, it was the donut and under Amorim, it was a 2 man midfield; both times the spacing between each lines (forwards, midfield and then defence) were massively vulnerable, triggers were poor and we have wrong athletic squad profiles.

I do think the defensive line can be higher, more compact and our pressing triggers need quite a bit of work (i.e at times Cunha's lackadaisical approach and Bruno's inefficient roaming creates too many punishable gaps) but I'd also be weary of asking the likes of Martinez/Maguire of pushing up at the half way line with a Mainoo/Casemiro midfield.

I still think a mid-block, a higher defensive line (with Lammens sweeping more) than what we're seeing now but not quite half way line, with Casemiro and Mainoo sitting in front with the same equal fairly aggressive pressing from the front 3 and Bruno needing to reel it in more should be the approach for the rest of the season. Perhaps a Yoro or Heaven can help with this.

I've said it before in this thread but we really shouldn't be expecting 'domination' or 'full' control against low blocks etc for the next 3-4 months. It's about platforming the players to get the best out of them without expecting gungho changes and performances. It's more about methodical prodding, calculated risks and hoping our individual quality shines through to get the results. That alone should get us CL football hopefully. More of the same but better execution than what we've seen in the last 5 games basically.

 

[Marcus]

I hope he is using this break to coach the team to beat a low block. That would be very promising if he gets it right.

But our fans especially at the stadium should be patient as this requires some passing backwards to draw the other team out.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

I hope he is using this break to coach the team to beat a low block. That would be very promising if he gets it right.

But our fans especially at the stadium should be patient as this requires some passing backwards to draw the other team out.

Agreed. Would be brilliant.

Teams left at Old Trafford:
Palace
Villa
Leeds
Brentford
Forest

Out of these teams, Palace Leeds Brentford and Forest have the lowest average possession under 50% so far this season, and Leeds became more proactive since December.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Bright_Eyes]

I'm sure the rest has merit but if Amorim had a son in an academy down the road I'm sure he'd go watch him too

 

[Dion]

So after one game you concluded we have no plan. Great stuff.

I concluded he went into the game with no plan. That's not really excusable.

 

[Zumbi]

I concluded he went into the game with no plan. That's not really excusable.

You really think he just had zero plan and told the boys to go out there and win? I find it much easier to believe that we had an off day and whatever plan we had didn't work. Either way coming to any conclusions based on one draw (during our best run of form for several years) seems a little silly. We need a bigger sample size to assess Carrick’s suitability for the role.

 

[the_12th_devil]

Even then with Ole though, the next 2 full seasons he did pretty well in. 3rd and 2nd, just failed to win a cup competition and obviously reached his limit, but he still did well to stabilize us. I would gladly take similar league years for the next 2 years to what we had with Ole in 19/20 and 20/21, and you just hope we go one step further in the cups and win one or we compete better in the CL rather than competing for the Europa league.

I am not downplaying Oles Utd record but even when we finished 3rd with 66 points and 2nd with 74 points, we were still 33 points behind Liverpool and 12 points behind City, so it never truly felt like a genuine title challenge despite the league position and its a similar pattern with Jose and Ten hag. Jose finished 2nd with 81 points but was still 19 behind City even though he won the Europa league and carling cup and ten Hag finished 3rd with 75 points but 14 behind City although he won FA cup and carling cup, so while Ole 2nd and 3rd place finish look respectable, the points gaps show we werent actually close to winning the league or building sustained progress toward it.

 

[the_12th_devil]

Yeah I'm wary of that happening again as well. The thing with Ole is we waited until he started losing to give him the job! I'd like to think we won't be hasty, and we'll have a decent look at what Carrick can do before deciding. As you say though, I do wish we had a few more midweek games to see what he's about, different tests etc. As it is, 17 PL games might not be enough to get a full picture.

With Ole, it was the emotional high of that run that probably speed up the decision and we ended up judging him more on momentum than on a long term plan. Thats why I still have some doubts with Carrick. A short good run, especially over 17 league games can look convincing but still doesnt show how he handles setbacks, tactical adjustments, squad rotation and bigger pressure moments. I agree it would help to see him tested in midweek games before making proper judgment because we already seen how quickly a strong bounce can fade once the initial lift wears off. Despite my doubts, I still give him the job to him if we couldnt get Enrique

 

[bosnian_red]

I am not downplaying Oles Utd record but even when we finished 3rd with 66 points and 2nd with 74 points, we were still 33 points behind Liverpool and 12 points behind City, so it never truly felt like a genuine title challenge despite the league position and its a similar pattern with Jose and Ten hag. Jose finished 2nd with 81 points but was still 19 behind City even though he won the Europa league and carling cup and ten Hag finished 3rd with 75 points but 14 behind City although he won FA cup and carling cup, so while Ole 2nd and 3rd place finish look respectable, the points gaps show we werent actually close to winning the league or building sustained progress toward it.

I never said we challenged for the title - point was we were a steady top 4 club which is the first step. Making the step up to be a title challenger was something he never managed, but also something we are quite far away from right now. It shouldn't be difficult for Man United to be a regular CL qualifier, but that's what we have to focus on for the immediate couple of years as we haven't been that for a while. Maintain this level while competing across competitions, that's what the ask should be for Carrick or whoever comes in. I don't see a scenario where we seriously challenge for the title before 2028 (honest best case scenario is probably 28/29).

 

[Grande]

I am not downplaying Oles Utd record but even when we finished 3rd with 66 points and 2nd with 74 points, we were still 33 points behind Liverpool and 12 points behind City, so it never truly felt like a genuine title challenge despite the league position and its a similar pattern with Jose and Ten hag. Jose finished 2nd with 81 points but was still 19 behind City even though he won the Europa league and carling cup and ten Hag finished 3rd with 75 points but 14 behind City although he won FA cup and carling cup, so while Ole 2nd and 3rd place finish look respectable, the points gaps show we werent actually close to winning the league or building sustained progress toward it.

All for a nuanced view on all our managers. Points per season is a decent measure to go by, I agree. Points compared to the biggest outlayer of the season is a statistically very bad measurement of anything. Arsenal is a very serious title contender this year not because they are close to topping Klopp/Pep’s most succesfull seasons, but because they have improved layer upon layer and are now amassing points that can win the league when no other team has an astral plane season.

The single most impressive thing Ole did was building on what worked and continiously improving. That is in most cases sustainable. His single biggest mistake was to allow himself to veer from that path. Not just bringing Ronaldo in, but also Sancho and Varane in while changing to a style of play that didn’t really suit them, or the existing squad. Why he did that I don’t know, but changing you best working MO to please other needs than winning is not even how the most genious managers succeed.

Mourinho had probably the best squad we’ve had since 2010 or 11. He stuck to his MO and delivered two seasons that had good aspects, but we all knew he is not sustainable as a leader end of. I’ll still say that 2020-21 was a lot better than Mourinho ever got us playing. He had one season were we flopped the league but won one and a half cup (mickey Mouse), and one season were we took more points in the league but was a lot worse in Europe. We did get to an FA Cup final with a bit of luck. Ole at his best got good results in the league and long runs in all cups simultaneously, and we regularily trounced teams. (Southampton, Roma, Sociedad, Leeds, Cardiff, that period were we set a club record of winning four straight matches with three or more goals differance, which neithr Ferguson not Busby ever managed).

Then Ten Hag came and had a very good season with some important reinforcements and reverting to the style Solskjær had developped, before it all went pearshaped when he tried to convert to his own play style.

I think Ole himself is responsible for losing the sustainability, so no excuses for him there, but I think people underestimate the sustainability of that MO if he had continued it, and had a set up that could bring him the profiles he needed rather than the players he thought he could use.

After Ole left, league winners were at 93, 89, 91, 84 and Arsenal on course for 84 pts this year. If Solskjær had kept his course and been supported by Ratcliffe’s lot, I wouldn’t be surprised if we had managed to beat one of those tallies by now. Well, water under the bridge anyways.

I fully agree there is no point hiring any full time manager before the season is completed. And I hope to Mother Nature that those in charge at the club has a better view of the candidates by then than any of us do!

 

[Teja]

This is a good point but it's something that's been ever present for the last 3-4 years though. Under ETH, it was the donut and under Amorim, it was a 2 man midfield; both times the spacing between each lines (forwards, midfield and then defence) were massively vulnerable, triggers were poor and we have wrong athletic squad profiles.

I do think the defensive line can be higher, more compact and our pressing triggers need quite a bit of work (i.e at times Cunha's lackadaisical approach and Bruno's inefficient roaming creates too many punishable gaps) but I'd also be weary of asking the likes of Martinez/Maguire of pushing up at the half way line with a Mainoo/Casemiro midfield.

I still think a mid-block, a higher defensive line (with Lammens sweeping more) than what we're seeing now but not quite half way line, with Casemiro and Mainoo sitting in front with the same equal fairly aggressive pressing from the front 3 and Bruno needing to reel it in more should be the approach for the rest of the season. Perhaps a Yoro or Heaven can help with this.

I've said it before in this thread but we really shouldn't be expecting 'domination' or 'full' control against low blocks etc for the next 3-4 months. It's about platforming the players to get the best out of them without expecting gungho changes and performances. It's more about methodical prodding, calculated risks and hoping our individual quality shines through to get the results. That alone should get us CL football hopefully. More of the same but better execution than what we've seen in the last 5 games basically.

Generally agree. Results this season are important and we must get Europe and hopefully CL football. But he needs to strike the balance between pragmatism and sustainable football.

We have so much training time this season. Next year we'll be playing two games a week, so it's a really good opportunity to work on build up and pressing, set pieces etc.

On the flip side, as you say, the squad problems exist. If we continue with Maguire, Martinez, Mainoo and Case and attempt to play a really high line, it's a recipe for disaster. Even against West Ham, Yoro had to come in and bail us out several times when we really went for it. I hope both Carrick and Wilcox take inspiration from Arteta. You need 5 big, fast bastards who don't lose duels at the back to cut it in the PL. Make our version of Timber, Gabriel, Saliba, Hincapie and Rice. Obviously full haram ball isn't necessary but the current core is just too slow / weak.

I hope there is some balance between the two approached and he won't simply revert to Amorim style bottom half football. Yes, you can get results with just lumping it forward to the big guy and fighting for second balls but that's not a sustainable style of play.

Carrick, to his credit, isn't doing this but I don't expect results to continue to be this good and pressure will ramp up. Let's see how he responds.

 

[criticalanalysis]

Generally agree. Results this season are important and we must get Europe and hopefully CL football. But he needs to strike the balance between pragmatism and sustainable football.

We have so much training time this season. Next year we'll be playing two games a week, so it's a really good opportunity to work on build up and pressing, set pieces etc.

On the flip side, as you say, the squad problems exist. If we continue with Maguire, Martinez, Mainoo and Case and attempt to play a really high line, it's a recipe for disaster. Even against West Ham, Yoro had to come in and bail us out several times when we really went for it. I hope both Carrick and Wilcox take inspiration from Arteta. You need 5 big, fast bastards who don't lose duels at the back to cut it in the PL. Make our version of Timber, Gabriel, Saliba, Hincapie and Rice. Obviously full haram ball isn't necessary but the current core is just too slow / weak.

I hope there is some balance between the two approached and he won't simply revert to Amorim style bottom half football. Yes, you can get results with just lumping it forward to the big guy and fighting for second balls but that's not a sustainable style of play.

Carrick, to his credit, isn't doing this but I don't expect results to continue to be this good and pressure will ramp up. Let's see how he responds.

Yeah it's going to be interesting to see how it develops under Carrick. As you've said, he has the training time and the individual quality so we should be expecting/hoping for good performances and results.

I think he needs to solve the defensive line, which has been a bit out of sorts (compared to the midfield positions) and find the right balance between the roles of the fullbacks in Dalot and Shaw. On the former, I think he can ask Martinez to be more aggressive pushing into midfield and being the first phase presser; it's something he generally does well and in those second/loose ball situations he can play the ball forward to get us moving back the opposite end. The issue is that someone like Maguire is not the best at sweeping/covering himself and that might mean someone else sweeping like Yoro, who is youthful but inexperienced. Dalot has been as asset tucking in supporting Maguire massively the past 5 games but I'd much rather the roles reverse for it be Shaw on the other side, as he basically cannot contribute much beyond the halfway line nowadays.

I think Ole himself is responsible for losing the sustainability, so no excuses for him there, but I think people underestimate the sustainability of that MO if he had continued it, and had a set up that could bring him the profiles he needed rather than the players he thought he could use.

After Ole left, league winners were at 93, 89, 91, 84 and Arsenal on course for 84 pts this year. If Solskjær had kept his course and been supported by Ratcliffe’s lot, I wouldn’t be surprised if we had managed to beat one of those tallies by now. Well, water under the bridge anyways.

You have well made points in your post but I think your summary of Ole's time is bit of a rosier view than what the general consensus of his critics were at the time. On the surface you can point to 'objectives delivered' in CL football, league position and deep cup runs. However, it wasn't sustainable football because we relied heavily on beating teams through individual quality, having a solid(ish) defensive base with not much nuance in the way of coaching/tactics and playing methods. It was felt by many including myself that he should have been sacked after the EL final loss because he had taken us as far as he could. I don't think bringing in the 'right' profile of players for him would have yielded as much as what you're projecting; the same issues such as not being able to get the team playing above the sum of its parts and breaking down stubborn and tactical teams (as we would have faced more and more) would have continued.

 

[Grande]

Yeah it's going to be interesting to see how it develops under Carrick. As you've said, he has the training time and the individual quality so we should be expecting/hoping for good performances and results.

I think he needs to solve the defensive line, which has been a bit out of sorts (compared to the midfield positions) and find the right balance between the roles of the fullbacks in Dalot and Shaw. On the former, I think he can ask Martinez to be more aggressive pushing into midfield and being the first phase presser; it's something he generally does well and in those second/loose ball situations he can play the ball forward to get us moving back the opposite end. The issue is that someone like Maguire is not the best at sweeping/covering himself and that might mean someone else sweeping like Yoro, who is youthful but inexperienced. Dalot has been as asset tucking in supporting Maguire massively the past 5 games but I'd much rather the roles reverse for it be Shaw on the other side, as he basically cannot contribute much beyond the halfway line nowadays.



You have well made points in your post but I think your summary of Ole's time is bit of a rosier view than what the general consensus of his critics were at the time. On the surface you can point to 'objectives delivered' in CL football, league position and deep cup runs. However, it wasn't sustainable football because we relied heavily on beating teams through individual quality, having a solid(ish) defensive base with not much nuance in the way of coaching/tactics and playing methods. It was felt by many including myself that he should have been sacked after the EL final loss because he had taken us as far as he could. I don't think bringing in the 'right' profile of players for him would have yielded as much as what you're projecting; the same issues such as not being able to get the team playing above the sum of its parts and breaking down stubborn and tactical teams (as we would have faced more and more) would have continued.

Certainly the consensus is different, allthough I think the consensus is based on a lot of factors other than the analysis of performance.

I’m not at all certain that Solskjær’s team (with Carrick and McKenna central, don’t forget) would have kept on developping, and to be honest I don’t think too much of my scrying skills anyway. What I’m more sceptical about is the confidence in their own predictive capacities of most of those who were sure Solskjær had peaked, based on a one month period at the end of 2020/21, many forgetting that this was the longest consecutive season ever due to covid, while United played more matches than most teams in the world due to going so far in all the cups. I remember many who had predicted equally assured that we wouldn’t improve on the season finish of 2019, and that we wouldn’t improve on the first half of the season of 2019/20. The arguments were much the same, ‘lacking patterns’ in attacking play and being defensively ‘simplistic’. Yet United impressed in the CL against accompliced cosches of PSG and Leipzig with this organizations, and with players who have long since been deemed way below Man Utd standard. The critics were mostly silent in January when Utd topped the league, and in February, March and April as United went 23 games unbeaten (only the less patient critics were complaining seriously about City running away in the league due to a 21-win-streak in all comps), all the while drawing away to Arsenal and Chelsea, beating Southampton 9-0, beating Liverpool 3-2 in the FA Cup in March, beating City again in the league, beating Real Sociedad 4-0 away, Milan 1-0 away, Granada 4-0 on aggregate and Roma 6-2 in the first leg of the Europa league SF. During this period there were absolutely a few who said we were not yet at the level of City and PSG, but not many said we were ridiculously far of, and not many talked about a team being past their best.

No, the complaints - and premonitions - came as fatigue and injuries set in in May, Solskjær sacrificed a Liverpool game completely, and United were a David de Gea save away from winning the Europa final against a shrewd and experienced Villarreal. After such a gruelling 1 1/2 season, I think it was not so strange with a drop in form, and certainly not evidence of a coach being found out or not being sustainable.

My take on what happened is that losing some eye catching games cost the team a few trophies that would have changed the narratives, and narratives form emotions. But the analysis to me makes it equally likely that the team could improve further over the next seasons, as May 2021 was maybe the least representative period of Solskjærs entire reign, apart from his first two months.