Michael Carrick - Head Coach for the remainder of the season

[Alex99]

I'm pretty sure our next manager will be an ex boro manager likes. Just not this ex boro manager.

Warnock, Wilder or Pulis?

 

[Dion]

And I disagree, because managing a mid-table Championship club is worlds apart from managing Manchester United at the top end of the Premier League.

The skill sets are different, even if there's overlap. Same for relegation scrapping.

And I think in that overlap is areas of clear failing in Carrick's ability which makes him unsuitable to be United manager.

This strikes me very much as something you 'believe' because it allows you to go back to the one thing you've relied on this whole time; that Carrick got sacked by Middlesbrough.

Again, I'd point out I don't believe that's a remotely accurate summary of the 5 pages of extensive replies to you on this topic which go far beyond Carrick being sacked at Boro (and him being sacked had very little to do with it, the problems were there before he was sacked). I'd invite others to read that rather than taking your word for it. I believe it because after careful consideration of the factors involved I consider it the most sensible interpretation. And this is not something new, I have discussed Carrick's record at Boro before in this thread before we ever started our exchange.

You simply didn't need to put the remark in there at all, but you find it impossible to simply sick to discussing a topic without making it about my motivations or how I format my posts or how I construct my arguments. It's totally unnecessary.

 

[Real Name]

I worded it badly. I was saying that the last 3 performances have been really poor despite results and points alone won't get him the job. You can't scab a bunch of results that you were lucky to get and point to those as proof you are the right man for the job. When you have the job, perhaps results are the most important thing to keep your job (see Slot) but to get the full time job from being interim, you've got to give people the hope that you are the guy to take us back to the top. Winning titles. You don't do that by getting lucky in a bunch of what should be relatively easy games. We won this weekend because of a sending off and penalty. Before that we were rubbish. Even then we didn't exactly see the game out confidently.

Nobody said the last 3 performances will give him the job but on the other hand I dont think it was as bad as portrayed. I think most of this takes are from people who didnt want Carrick in the 1st place and that's all right but no need to go to great lenghts to say the basic think, that they just dont want him as a permanent manager, even downplaying his good results and saying its cause of luck.

 

[Dion]

Fair enough, all my wife's family are from there are are regulars as well, they have a quite balanced opinion of his time there of him being undercut by the board Lath, Akpom and Rodgers being sold and not adequately replaced

I discussed it quite a bit about 20 pages back in this thread so I wont go over it again in detail, but I don't think that's an unfair analysis (and also applies to about half of all the Boro managers since I've been alive). He's well regarded by Boro supporters for how he went about things on a personal level and he didn't get the support he should have in the transfer market. That being said, they all say he had his limitations and they regularly struggled against a low block (which is the reason Akpom's departure was so devastating, because he was the primary source of individual brilliance) because they weren't particularly structured in attack. He also never really recovered from the squad profile changing and kept trying to fit the players into the same formation. All that seemed to track with the times I watched him while he was there.

 

[Dion]

So you're saying all of our good results under Carrick were cause of good luck?

Isn't he explicitly talking about the last 3 matches there?

 

[spiriticon]

There is no manager who can get a team to blitz the opposition for 38 league games in a row in the Premier League. Not Carrick, not Tuchel, not Ancelotti, not even Sir Alex.

Calm down on the expectations.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You can look at as much context as you want, it won't change the similarity of the trajectory. And to make sure its clear - you are very welcome to come to different conclusions, I for one, do not care. But lets not act as if every small bit of "not-shared-enthusiasm" is some sort of failure for fanhood.

I mean, isn’t that exactly how you acted with Amorim despite him stinking the place out for 14 months?

As for Carrick, what did anyone expect? Him to take us from the dogshit of Amorim to being a dominant force, with a dominant brand of football, within 7 games?

I get it, you were all in on Amorim and stated things such as:

I think you are wasting energy here. There are a lot of people adamant that tactics are basically comprised of the formation and the lineup and that switching numbers from here to there will have a huge effect.

Yet switching numbers from here to there has clearly had a seismic effect, so you’ve been playing down everything Carrick since he started the job. Is it really that important for you to be right? Rather than just hold your hands up to being wrong on Amorim and wrong about the formation?
Right now it feels like you’re actively not enjoying us winning.

 

[Alex99]

And I think in that overlap is areas of clear failing in Carrick's ability which makes him unsuitable to be United manager.

Again, I'd point out I don't believe that's a remotely accurate summary of the 5 pages of extensive replies to you on this topic which go far beyond Carrick being sacked at Boro (and him being sacked had very little to do with it, the problems were there before he was sacked). I'd invite others to read that rather than taking your word for it. I believe it because after careful consideration of the factors involved I consider it the most sensible interpretation. And this is not something new, I have discussed Carrick's record at Boro before in this thread before we ever started our exchange.

You simply didn't need to put the remark in there at all, but you find it impossible to simply sick to discussing a topic without making it about my motivations or how I format my posts or how I construct my arguments. It's totally unnecessary.

This victim-shtick is tiring.

The Championship and managing Middlesbrough are very different to the Premier League and managing Manchester United.

Whatever shortcomings he had at Middlesbrough are by no means guaranteed to be present at Manchester United.

They simply aren’t equivalent. Arguing that they are exposes the agenda you've got, because, as I said, acknowledging the difference and the lack of games Carrick has at a higher level is a far stronger and more coherent argument than the goalpost-shifting tripe you've served up over the last few pages.

We should end things here, if only because I'm bored of your nonsense.

 

[golden_blunder]

@Alex99 yes please leave it there now.

 

[Dion]

This victim-shtick is tiring.

The Championship and managing Middlesbrough are very different to the Premier League and managing Manchester United.

Whatever shortcomings he had at Middlesbrough are by no means guaranteed to be present at Manchester United.

They simply aren’t equivalent. Arguing that they are exposes the agenda you've got, because, as I said, acknowledging the difference and the lack of games Carrick has at a higher level is a far stronger and more coherent argument than the goalpost-shifting tripe you've served up over the last few pages.

We should end things here, if only because I'm bored of your nonsense.

And if I'm quite honest I'm tired and bored of your deliberate attempts to grandstand, misrepresent my arguments rather than make your own simply discussing the topic directly did not worked for you and completely baseless claims of goalpost-shifting. But I was trying to be polite about it and bring you back on topic.

You're absolutely free to believe his shortcomings at Boro are not guaranteed to be present at United. I'd even agree with you, they're not guaranteed! However, given what those weaknesses are and the weaknesses Carrick has shown in his time at United, I suspect we're again going to fall to disagreement on how likely they are to be present.

If you want to not reply to something you're absolutely free to do that. I have at no point forced you to respond. I have nothing else to say based on what you've written so far, so as long as that doesn't change I can assure you I've got no interest in extending this exchange.

 

[Real Name]

Isn't he explicitly talking about the last 3 matches there?

Jesus Christ, you again.

 

[Kelly15]

I discussed it quite a bit about 20 pages back in this thread so I wont go over it again in detail, but I don't think that's an unfair analysis (and also applies to about half of all the Boro managers since I've been alive). He's well regarded by Boro supporters for how he went about things on a personal level and he didn't get the support he should have in the transfer market. That being said, they all say he had his limitations and they regularly struggled against a low block (which is the reason Akpom's departure was so devastating, because he was the primary source of individual brilliance) because they weren't particularly structured in attack. He also never really recovered from the squad profile changing and kept trying to fit the players into the same formation. All that seemed to track with the times I watched him while he was there.

Wouldn't that be a recruitment problem. Not getting the right players for his system?

He implemented an attacking, possession-based style (avg. ~55-58% possession), ranking high in metrics for goals, shots, xg, and touches in the opposition box. Wouldn't that be considered structured? And not about individual brilliance?

 

[L1nk]

Yeah I feel exactly the same, so who would you put above him on the shortlist that is realistically available and can confidently do the job though

That's the question really isn't it. There doesn't really seem to be any "standout" candidate that's realistically available. The one i'm sure everyone wants, between fans and club, is Luis Enrique but I don't think that's even remotely realistic for a multitude of reasons even outside of signing a new contract.

For me personally I think Nagelsmann is who I would go for, but he comes with his own set of risks and would also be a gamble. The fact is I don't think there's anyone we can get that isn't a gamble now. I would say however i'd put Carrick above the likes of Glasner and Iraola on my list, and I bet the club would have done that as well.

Let's say we have this list of candidates, the only ones I see being realistic i've bolded, the rest not so much.

Carlo Ancelotti - New contract, not happening.
Thomas Tuchel - New contract, not happening.
Jurgen Klopp - Not gonna come to us after being at Liverpool, and I wonder if Nagelsmann leaves he might take over the German national team. That and apparently Real Madrid are sniffing around.
Enzo Maresca - Don't feel like he did that well at Chelsea, but apparently is tipped to succeed Guardiola at Man City should he leave. Seems to have bad temperament too.
Gareth Southgate - God no.
Zinedine Zidane - Not happening, would have happened by now if it was going to. Can only see him taking over the France national team if and when he decides to step back into management.
Julian Nagelsmann - Even at young age has had top class experience with Bayern and German national team, would present great attacking pressing football, but there's currently nothing to say he wouldn't end up being another Ten Hag or Amorim. Do I think he's better than them? Yeah, but its still a risk.
Xabi Alonso - Would be quality, and is available, but will likely end up at Liverpool or Man City if Guardiola leaves.
Mauricio Pochettino - Did well for Tottenham, some would argue he did well for Chelsea too. But some can't get over the hump of him not winning anything when he was in the league, that and its been a while since he's been in the league... can he still produce anything? Risky, but gettable. He might go back to Spurs this summer.
Michael Carrick - Currently doing well as interim for us, but lacks critical experience and is a lot more unknown compared to other managers on the list that have way more experience, I also think he's less attacking and more rigid. However, it could just be he needs a chance and backing and he could flourish? Hard to say.
Xavi - I think if we'd wanted him at all we would have went for him by now, feels like a non starter.
Eddie Howe - Alot of media and ex players say we should go for Howe, has done relatively well with Newcastle. Does he have the big name pull and top class experience of the others though. Might be hard to get him out of Newcastle.
Cesc Fabregas - Probably the biggest gamble we could make, but hard to ignore how well he is doing with Como currently. Feel like its a non starter.
Oliver Glasner - Leaving in the summer, realistic opportunity. But imo plays poor football and I feel like the higher ups would place Carrick above him at this point.
Andoni Iraola - Same as Glasner, I don't feel like he offers anything Carrick doesn't currently offer us.
Marco Silva - Linked to us... but I don't personally think he's that good, and again, does he offer us more than Carrick currently offers us.
Roberto De Zerbi - Don't think we will be remotely interested now after his blow up at Marseille, even if he plays attacking attractive football.

So that leaves us with

Nagelsmann
Pochettino
Carrick
Howe
Glasner
Iraola
Silva

Take your pick, its slim pickings out there.

 

[Dion]

Jesus Christ, you again.

Indeed, I feel like maybe you'd do better discussing the topic rather than your feelings about me.

Wouldn't that be a recruitment problem. Not getting the right players for his system?

He implemented an attacking, possession-based style (avg. ~55-58% possession), ranking high in metrics for goals, shots, xg, and touches in the opposition box. Wouldn't that be considered structured? And not about individual brilliance?

It certainly was an issue, but not the only one.

And he was quite attacking, but in a transitional way rather than what you're thinking of and as soon as they can't play on the transition the full length of the pitch the progression struggled. In this second and third season they were promotional place levels for those kinds of things while being a bit leaky defensively and passing it around the dreaded horseshoe a lot.

To save regurgitating my previous posts, I discussed how Boro played here and included a couple of sources from when he was actually at Boro rather than since he rejoined United and things obviously get spun one way or another.

 

[The Hilton]

I think getting into the top 4 comfortably for the next two seasons would be definite progress. As you say, that can't be the ceiling.

The next step would be challenging for the title. Whether Carrick is the man for that post August 2027 say is a different question. I think the lesson we need to learn from Ole is not being scared to make a change if things are OK but could be better. We should have changed managers after that 2021 Europa final.

The next step doesn't happen if we don't change the footballing approach though. You can't take a team that specialises in playing a mid block and turn them into a team that controls matches against all opposition without a transition period.

We've been trying to move beyond mid block counter attacking football for years now, and the best we can hope for at the moment is that we're back to where we started. If we stick with it again for the next couple of seasons then we'll be stuck in the same cycle, it'll be far better long term for us to start the transition in the summer and make sure that whoever the manager is next season is on board and capable of taking us on the journey without results suffering too much.

 

[lex talionis]

I understand the insatiable desire to have it all sorted out NOW rather than near or at the end of the season, when the decision as to who will manage the club next season must be made. But in truth we don't need to have it all sorted out now.

Michael Carrick is still making the case for himself by sticking to what is the only goal for us as we close out the season -- qualifying for the CL. It's not playing champagne football...it's finishing the season in the top five, third being what's realistically achievable now given the outstanding performances we've put in since Amorim was replaced, ultimately by Carrick. Winning match after match is all that matters right now, and whether it's pure luck or pure genius the results keep pouring in and we're now in third place in the PL, which was unimaginable two months ago.

While I don't want to discourage the argument back and forth here as to whether we should appoint Carrick or someone else such as Tuchel or Nagelsmann, it would actually be ridiculously dumb for the board to do so right now.

And although I would like to see us win every match of our remaining 10 matches, there's a part of me that would like to see us lose just one match for the pure joy of seeing posters here go melt and proclaim that they told us so, that Carrick is unfit for the job and that we need some with real PL experience such as Pochettino, Tuchel or Glasner.

 

[Bo_devil]

That's the question really isn't it. There doesn't really seem to be any "standout" candidate that's realistically available. The one i'm sure everyone wants, between fans and club, is Luis Enrique but I don't think that's even remotely realistic for a multitude of reasons even outside of signing a new contract.

For me personally I think Nagelsmann is who I would go for, but he comes with his own set of risks and would also be a gamble. The fact is I don't think there's anyone we can get that isn't a gamble now. I would say however i'd put Carrick above the likes of Glasner and Iraola on my list, and I bet the club would have done that as well.

Let's say we have this list of candidates, the only ones I see being realistic i've bolded, the rest not so much.

Carlo Ancelotti - New contract, not happening.
Thomas Tuchel - New contract, not happening.
Jurgen Klopp - Not gonna come to us after being at Liverpool, and I wonder if Nagelsmann leaves he might take over the German national team. That and apparently Real Madrid are sniffing around.
Enzo Maresca - Don't feel like he did that well at Chelsea, but apparently is tipped to succeed Guardiola at Man City should he leave. Seems to have bad temperament too.
Gareth Southgate - God no.
Zinedine Zidane - Not happening, would have happened by now if it was going to. Can only see him taking over the France national team if and when he decides to step back into management.
Julian Nagelsmann - Even at young age has had top class experience with Bayern and German national team, would present great attacking pressing football, but there's currently nothing to say he wouldn't end up being another Ten Hag or Amorim. Do I think he's better than them? Yeah, but its still a risk.
Xabi Alonso - Would be quality, and is available, but will likely end up at Liverpool or Man City if Guardiola leaves.
Mauricio Pochettino - Did well for Tottenham, some would argue he did well for Chelsea too. But some can't get over the hump of him not winning anything when he was in the league, that and its been a while since he's been in the league... can he still produce anything? Risky, but gettable. He might go back to Spurs this summer.
Michael Carrick - Currently doing well as interim for us, but lacks critical experience and is a lot more unknown compared to other managers on the list that have way more experience, I also think he's less attacking and more rigid. However, it could just be he needs a chance and backing and he could flourish? Hard to say.
Xavi - I think if we'd wanted him at all we would have went for him by now, feels like a non starter.
Eddie Howe - Alot of media and ex players say we should go for Howe, has done relatively well with Newcastle. Does he have the big name pull and top class experience of the others though. Might be hard to get him out of Newcastle.
Cesc Fabregas - Probably the biggest gamble we could make, but hard to ignore how well he is doing with Como currently. Feel like its a non starter.
Oliver Glasner - Leaving in the summer, realistic opportunity. But imo plays poor football and I feel like the higher ups would place Carrick above him at this point.
Andoni Iraola - Same as Glasner, I don't feel like he offers anything Carrick doesn't currently offer us.
Marco Silva - Linked to us... but I don't personally think he's that good, and again, does he offer us more than Carrick currently offers us.
Roberto De Zerbi - Don't think we will be remotely interested now after his blow up at Marseille, even if he plays attacking attractive football.

So that leaves us with

Nagelsmann
Pochettino
Carrick
Howe
Glasner
Iraola
Silva

Take your pick, its slim pickings out there.

Probably one of the reasons he's brought in Holland, who does have experience of winning major trophies. Between our current coaching staff and Arteta and his coaching staff for comparison, our lot has pretty much won the lot, playing and coaching respectively.

 

[Scandi Red]

I like Carrick.

 

[Gavinb33]

The next step doesn't happen if we don't change the footballing approach though. You can't take a team that specialises in playing a mid block and turn them into a team that controls matches against all opposition without a transition period.

We've been trying to move beyond mid block counter attacking football for years now, and the best we can hope for at the moment is that we're back to where we started. If we stick with it again for the next couple of seasons then we'll be stuck in the same cycle, it'll be far better long term for us to start the transition in the summer and make sure that whoever the manager is next season is on board and capable of taking us on the journey without results suffering too much.

This ignores the fact at the same time we also need results, without results none of the other stuff actually matters which is what did for Ruben in the end, so rather than just broad stroke go we need some progressive football we need that and results and in the absence of the former we are still able to get the latter which is far more important

 

[Redfrog]

After reading the last 2-3 pages my head hurts

What my tiny brain retained is that, one poster seems to think the current incumbent isn't the answer but has a criteria that no one can fulfil, and 99% of everyone else disgarees with that premise - is that about right?

Right. And you should add he is polluting this place. I am just jumping what he is writing as this is the same non-sense over and over.

 

[NZT-One]

I mean, isn’t that exactly how you acted with Amorim despite him stinking the place out for 14 months?

No absolutely not. And if that is what you took away from my posts, then you either don't even attempt to understand them or you intentionally misunderstand them.

As for Carrick, what did anyone expect? Him to take us from the dogshit of Amorim to being a dominant force, with a dominant brand of football, within 7 games?

I don't know what you expected. I didn't expect anything. I hope that at some point we will bring in a coach that can evolve the team. I personally don't think that Carrick can do that. And the 7 games so far rather confirm my stance than letting me think. But thats just me. If all you wanted is improved results, then congratulations, then you should enjoy the time of your life now. Just don't assume that everybody has the exact same expectations as you have.

I get it, you were all in on Amorim and stated things such as:

Odd quote. I mean, it isn't at all about Amorim, it is about the narrowminded understanding of "tactics" reduced to formations. I mean, if you want to think that the reason for our better results is the mere formation change, then be my guest.

Yet switching numbers from here to there has clearly had a seismic effect, so you’ve been playing down everything Carrick since he started the job. Is it really that important for you to be right? Rather than just hold your hands up to being wrong on Amorim and wrong about the formation?
Right now it feels like you’re actively not enjoying us winning.

Certainly not as important as it seems to be for you given the vigor you put in the discussion on here. I didn't play it down at all. All I am doing is commenting on posts that paint a picture of a bright future if only we can preserve what we have right now. And for your interest - I don't care about Amorim, I was never much of a fan of him, I saw him as a useful tool that ended up not as effective as I hoped. I see Carrick as the same. But given that he doesn't have a track record of building a modern team, I don't want the club to waste time on him as a permanent solution. Exact same as with Ole. If those guys go out there, get the experience, get the CV, then I am the last one to close any door.

 

[Dion]

Right. And you should add he is polluting this place. I am just jumping what he is writing as this is the same non-sense over and over.

Definitely adding to the discussion and not being toxic with this.

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

The next step doesn't happen if we don't change the footballing approach though. You can't take a team that specialises in playing a mid block and turn them into a team that controls matches against all opposition without a transition period.

We've been trying to move beyond mid block counter attacking football for years now, and the best we can hope for at the moment is that we're back to where we started. If we stick with it again for the next couple of seasons then we'll be stuck in the same cycle, it'll be far better long term for us to start the transition in the summer and make sure that whoever the manager is next season is on board and capable of taking us on the journey without results suffering too much.

The next step doesn't happen if we keep changing philosophies every 6 months and don't manage two successive seasons in the Champions League.

If there's no decent manager available this summer, it makes zero chance to take another Amorim style punt especially when it could set us back massively. It's possible to have a short term plan that doesn't contradict our longer term goals.

 

[lex talionis]

The argument against Carrick is that he doesn't have anywhere near the experience required to handle of club of United's colossal stature. He must first demonstrate outstandingness (just made that word up, but it seems like a word that should exist) with a somewhat big club such as Sporting Lisbon. That's it as far as I can tell.

The argument for Carrick is that he transformed the squad into an undefeated side who dismantled the top clubs clubs in the PL from what it was under the previous manager, who was outstanding for Sporting Lisbon but who was a virtual disaster as Old Trafford, as were each of his predecessors in one form or another. I see no other argument that goes beyond the base case.

Neither argument is irrational. If you count the five games from his previous stint as United interim manager, Carrick has won something like 10 out of 12 games, the other two being draws. Very decent, but admittedly a very small sample. Is the sample size too small or is to large enough by now? I would say it's too small. I hate to jinx us, but if we lose each of our remaining 10 games Carrick is no longer under discussion. But if he wins the remaining 10 games it's game, set and match for the Carrick skeptics here.

The other aspect of this discussion is if not Carrick then who? None of the reasonably available names give me a lot of confidence. Put another way, perhaps Pochettino or Southgate would be genius for us and bring home a treble, but none of these names are sure fire bets to do any better than ten Hag or Amorim. But neither is Carrick. Whatever we do, it will be a gamble.

 

[Kelly15]

Indeed, I feel like maybe you'd do better discussing the topic rather than your feelings about me.

It certainly was an issue, but not the only one.

And he was quite attacking, but in a transitional way rather than what you're thinking of and as soon as they can't play on the transition the full length of the pitch the progression struggled. In this second and third season they were promotional place levels for those kinds of things while being a bit leaky defensively and passing it around the dreaded horseshoe a lot.

To save regurgitating my previous posts, I discussed how Boro played here and included a couple of sources from when he was actually at Boro rather than since he rejoined United and things obviously get spun one way or another.

I hear what you are saying. However after the 1st season they completely overhauled the team while still maintaining high attacking metrics. Wouldn't some of the problems encountered be due to inferior personal? In the second season he had a negative net spent. Also taking into account how difficult it is to break down low blocks without having superior players. Wouldn't some of that be partially responsible why it was so difficult to break down low block teams?

Also if he was a transitional team, why did he have such high number of passes, shots, pass completion, xg, possession, and passes inside the box? Doesn't this show his team was getting into the right places? Had control? Getting the opportunities?

Defensively is where the problems seemed to be from my perspective. With the high attacking metrics, wouldn't a solid defense make a difference? As in doesnt it take better players for that?

Could it be possible when taking into account the players at his disposal, that what he achieved at Boro was actually quite impressive? I feel like that is something that might be overlooked. Jmo

 

[Bobski]

It is wild that Carrick winning 6 out of 7 is still getting sniffed at more than Amorin was who was winning 1 game a month.

 

[Gavinb33]

It is wild that Carrick winning 6 out of 7 is still getting sniffed at more than Amorin was who was winning 1 game a month.

There is likely a direct correlation between the Amorim backers and the Carrick naysayers

 

[davidmichael]

What is there about Nagelsmaan that suggests he's not just another Ten Hag/Amorim type manager?

He's just a name that's been floated around for a while as if he's a top bracket manager, but I don't really think he's ever done anything to prove that to be the case.

For me personally there isn’t anything massive about Nagelsmaan as he’s simply someone who did well with a smaller German team then basically underachieved at Bayern so isn’t on the level of the likes of Luis Enrique, Ancelotti and Tuchel but as his name gets floated about I included him in the names that have signed an extension or about to.

 

[Dion]

I hear what you are saying. However after the 1st season they completely overhauled the team while still maintaining high attacking metrics. Wouldn't some of the problems encountered be due to inferior personal? In the second season he had a negative net spent. Also taking into account how difficult it is to break down low blocks without having superior players. Wouldn't some of that be partially responsible why it was so difficult to break down low block teams?

Also if he was a transitional team, why did he have such high number of passes, shots, pass completion, xg, possession, and passes inside the box? Doesn't this show his team was getting into the right places? Had control? Getting the opportunities?

Defensively is where the problems seemed to be from my perspective. With the high attacking metrics, wouldn't a solid defense make a difference? As in doesnt it take better players for that?

Could it be possible when taking into account the players at his disposal, that what he achieved at Boro was actually quite impressive? I feel like that is something that might be overlooked. Jmo

That's not really what happened though, there's a few factors at play but the guy in the reddit post I linked kind of summed it up. In the first season they were genuinely very good under Carrick, but that was largely because 1) his system hadn't been worked out yet and 2) Akpom was in Championship-Bruno levels of form and they still had issues with low blocks. He lost Akpom and made Boro a more transitional side (they were barely above 50% possession that season) and they struggled, their xG dropped significantly, their xG against went up and their possession skewed much more towards their own 3rd than it previously had. The next season even more teams started to do it and they entered the dreaded horseshoe phase where they'd see lots of the ball but lower quality chances as they struggled to break teams down. They overcommitted chasing goals and got caught at the back.

You don't need to take my word for it. Look at the actual reporting on Boro from the time. Those supporters weren't playing down Carrick so he wouldn't get the Man Utd job, they were just calling it as they saw it. Better players might have gotten Boro promotion under Carrick, but he was never going to get a group of players playing the same way Kompany did at Burnley, for example.

 

[Wolfbot]

Nobody said the last 3 performances will give him the job but on the other hand I dont think it was as bad as portrayed. I think most of this takes are from people who didnt want Carrick in the 1st place and that's all right but no need to go to great lenghts to say the basic think, that they just dont want him as a permanent manager, even downplaying his good results and saying its cause of luck.

Of course it's not been as bad as many are making out, not even close. You can jump in any of the post match threads for the last four or five games and see many people say we've performed poorly when the reality is we've been ok, bang average (with just enough quality to get the result).

You don't get a run of good results against teams in decent form legitimately playing poorly.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

I think a few (slight understatement) of us in here are behaving like entitled children. Carrick took over a team in dire straits, the majority of us thought we had a completely useless team on our hands. We knew that Amorim made mistakes but we also believed that the majority of our players were fairly useless. Now Carrick has managed to put us in a good position for Champions League football with the same players. We can’t expect to be playing champagne football after what we have suffered for the past few years. But he is getting results out of these players and that is a great quality in itself. I think the main thing holding us back from playing great football, however, is the players. Ancelotti will not turn Dalot into a world beater. He couldn’t magically fix our midfield.
So let’s be happy with Carrick for now, and if we qualify for the Champions League then I think he deserves a go to play good football as well with some shiny new players.

 

[DSG]

This thread is so fun

Cue the LOUD NOISES meme from Anchorman

 

[SambaBoy]

He's won 6 out of 7 - following on from the worst manager we've had since SAF.

It's crazy that people were willing to brush under the carpet a cocktail of horrendous, boring performances combined with losses because the manager was trying to instil a philosophy under the assumption that it would bear fruit in the long run. This belief continued after a month, two months, three months...... 18 months.

Here we have a manager who's come in and beat the best teams in the divisions and won 6 out of his 7 games including some tricky fixtures, had some great performances and some not so good performances but managed to find a way to win but yet people are questioning his performances.

If people were so willing to give Amorim time to put his methods across, why doesn't Carrick get the opportunity or time to put his stamp on a team? Is it really down to him being Carrick and not a fashionable manager from Europe who mentions it being a process every interview?

Most managers say they will need time to put their mark on the team but that results also need to be there to get the time. Whilst Carrick is getting the results, I'll back him to improve the performances too.

Also, no team in history has domination in every game - I'm stunned at the way people have been judging United since Carrick came in. It's like everyone listens to the likes of Goldbridge and these idiots on twitter who ultimately hate to see us successful and want us to be in crisis mode as it's great for their brand and business.

 

[DSG]

I think a few (slight understatement) of us in here are behaving like entitled children. Carrick took over a team in dire straits, the majority of us thought we had a completely useless team on our hands. We knew that Amorim made mistakes but we also believed that the majority of our players were fairly useless. Now Carrick has managed to put us in a good position for Champions League football with the same players. We can’t expect to be playing champagne football after what we have suffered for the past few years. But he is getting results out of these players and that is a great quality in itself. I think the main thing holding us back from playing great football, however, is the players. Ancelotti will not turn Dalot into a world beater. He couldn’t magically fix our midfield.
So let’s be happy with Carrick for now, and if we qualify for the Champions League then I think he deserves a go to play good football as well with some shiny new players.

Good post… none of us can really pass judgement. feck, Berrada and Wilcox can’t pass judgement at this point.

Let’s just let the man do his thing and reassess at the end of the campaign.

 

[Womp]

Also what team in the league in it's current climate is dominating every team they play?

Those days are gone imo, unless you build a legitimate super squad, there is too much talent and money in the league.

You've got Wolves taking the game to the champions in waiting. City inconsistent. Chelsea hot and cold.

 

[Beans]

Just don’t give him a big, long contract. He’ll be happy to be on a rolling 1 year deal. So if it turns sour, like with Ole, the team can move on quickly.

 

[Real Name]

Indeed, I feel like maybe you'd do better discussing the topic rather than your feelings about me.

I would like to discuss the topic but not with you.

 

[Real Name]

Of course it's not been as bad as many are making out, not even close. You can jump in any of the post match threads for the last four or five games and see many people say we've performed poorly when the reality is we've been ok, bang average (with just enough quality to get the result).

You don't get a run of good results against teams in decent form legitimately playing poorly.

Completely agreed.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Back-to-back wins again. Who'd have thunk it.

Credit to Carrick for continuing to rack up the wins despite injuries to Dorgu and Martinez.

Wish we were still in one of the domestic cups. A trophy would have cemented the feel-good factor around the club at the moment. Champions League qualification will still feel satisfying, but not celebratory.

 

[Dion]

I would like to discuss the topic but not with you.

Then making comments like "Jesus Christ, you again." seems extremely counter-productive.