Its crazy to think that after he was signed, every year fans would consider CM position and the lack of a "Keane-like" option in midfield to replace Carrick as the priority and Fergie continued to stick to Carrick - winning multiple PL and a CL in the process. Eventually he shut down all fans by handling the midfield himself after Scholes retired and Fletcher declined, and proving himself to be world-class. Hope he is able to be as miraculous as a manager for us.
Michael Carrick - Manchester United Head Coach
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Its crazy to think that after he was signed, every year fans would consider CM position and the lack of a "Keane-like" option in midfield to replace Carrick as the priority and Fergie continued to stick to Carrick - winning multiple PL and a CL in the process. Eventually he shut down all fans by handling the midfield himself after Scholes retired and Fletcher declined, and proving himself to be world-class. Hope he is able to be as miraculous as a manager for us.
It's an obvious point and it's not wrong in principle, but it's clearly more nuanced than that. For every Baleba they're signing there'll be others who arent good enough and get moved on.
Also (and it's an obvious point) players benefit from playing every week. Clubs at the top end, usually aren't going to buy a load of 19 year olds and throw them into the first team in the hope that some of them prove to be good enough later, and then deliver on some silverware. These clubs want to win now, and most can afford to pick off the best players from down the league anyway. And it impacts the players decisions too. Jude Bellingham could have moved to a top PL club before he moved to Dortmund, no doubt, but he must have considered he'd get more chance to develop there.
I was one of the supporters who were underwhelmed by his signing at the time.
I remember wanting us to sign Senna from Villareal.
Carrick turned out to be key for SAF in building a team to dominate European football and get results, he wasn’t Roy Keane but he was a far more patient and disciplined player than Keane which was what we actually needed at the time.
One of the most important signings that we’ve made in retrospect, was absolute key in some European masterclasses ie Inter in 2009 and Chelsea in 2011, brilliant player for United and hopefully an ever better coach.
You give Berrada, Jim and crew way too much credit. No one wants to or is able to take such a circuitous route to success. Corporate memories are far shorter than this
Amen +1
We are winning quadruple this season.
Please back him and he’ll do wonders with us. He’s clearly a very good coach. Can see what he’s trying to do with us
It’s good to see all of media focus is on Alonso. Let carrick work his magic quietly without much attention. Add to the mix managers like iroala, Maresca at new club, I’m happy there’s not much unnecessary attention over him
Pre-season, too early to judge etc but today's performance was promising. I was really worried about our midfield play last year. Even without taking into account Santos' obvious progressive qualities, I think we saw more interplay and passing through the lines that actually seemed intentional, especially when being pressed, which was a big issue of ours. Less hoofing, a bit more purpose and even patterns dare I say.
Heaven, Santos, Mount and Amad being on the pitch definitely helps in that manner. I'm looking to forward to see how this plays out when we have Mainoo, Tielemans and Bruno to come into the team too.
Heaven, Santos, Mount and Amad being on the pitch definitely helps in that manner. I'm looking to forward to see how this plays out when we have Mainoo, Tielemans and Bruno to come into the team too.
A vast an improvement under Carrick over what we saw under Amorim. For quite sometime while we were winning game after game there was a chorus out there defending Amorim on the basis of xG — forget the wins, look at our horrendous xG differential…that will tell us whether Carrick’s tactics are sustainable!
Asking those who obsess about xG, how do the numbers stack up during these pre-season friendlies?
Asking those who obsess about xG, how do the numbers stack up during these pre-season friendlies?
Unfortunately I don't think this will be the case for long. Lose a couple of games and the Eddie Howe brigade will start to get very loud...even if there's little reason for it to.
Yeah need to get him another midfielder, LB and striker for sure.
Yeah agreed. For years we've treated the ball like a hot potato so I'm excited to see combinations of Santos, Tielemans and Mainoo really raising the technical standard in the middle of the park - it should provide a much better platform for combinations with our other technical players, and then we have the more direct attackers like Mbeumo, Dorgu and Bruno who can benefit.
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Good signs. One thing I'd assess him on is favouring senior players. Heaven has been outstanding in preseason, Yoro has been great in a new RB role and Amad looks far sharper than Mbuemo. If Martinez/Mbuemo/Dalot/Maz walk straight back into the team when fit, that gives a really poor impression.
Second point of concern is this 4 - 2 - 4 shape when out of possession. If that's the plan (with 1 CM as Mainoo/Mount) in PL/CL games, we'll get torn apart.
Second point of concern is this 4 - 2 - 4 shape when out of possession. If that's the plan (with 1 CM as Mainoo/Mount) in PL/CL games, we'll get torn apart.
It could be confirmation bias but having seen some of the training videos, I really think Carrick has been working with the team to implement some methodology to our midfielding. It's a low bar of course but Santos and Tielemans raises the bottom level so much it actually gives me hope. I've been burned too many times but I haven't felt this optimistic (about the midfield/style of play)...since ETH
Agreed on the potential better platform. I thought this way about Casemiro leaving and was a bit surprised about the amount of worrying. I've said a few times, anyone decently mobile, defensive and progressive would probably give us more in the middle than Case's actual midfield contributions (outside of clutch goals). Really hope Santos delivers that.
It could be confirmation bias but having seen some of the training videos, I really think Carrick has been working with the team to implement some methodology to our midfielding. It's a low bar of course but Santos and Tielemans raises the bottom level so much it actually gives me hope. I've been burned too many times but I haven't felt this optimistic (about the midfield/style of play)...since ETH
Agreed on the potential better platform. I thought this way about Casemiro leaving and was a bit surprised about the amount of worrying. I've said a few times, anyone decently mobile, defensive and progressive would probably give us more in the middle than Case's actual midfield contributions (outside of clutch goals). Really hope Santos delivers that.
Yeah the Casemiro one's interesting. For ages he was criticized as being poor and not having the legs - understandably when our managers at the time played systems which left him exposed. Carrick changes our shape to alter his role and offer him more support and he then thrives, becoming even more of a fan favourite with some important goals. But simultaneously fans were also criticizing Carrick for not playing a more modern, progressive style, even though it seemed pretty clear our system was set up to mitigate the weaknesses of our shallow squad and get us through the season. The fact that we've brought in CMs with a high technical floor encourages me greatly - we're going to be harder to press and our frontline should get better service. There were patches last season where we saw those lovely rondo type tight passing combinations. We're now going to be much better placed to play more of that, whilst also having more players who can make that quick switch of play or ball over the top to exploit the space created. So whilst others have claimed our first XI hasn't improved, I actually think our midfield will be much more capable and balanced.
Whilst I obviously wasn't expecting a complete turnaround, I did criticise Carrick for not doing 'enough' to change our way of play especially in midfield. Considering the lack of games and amount of training time that was available, I felt we ceded possession far too easily and our pressing/positioning off the ball was a bit all over the place where Bruno would be doing too much at times. I've said many times that the results were fantastic and he has deserved his contract but going into this summer I was worried if that really was the 'best' Carrick could do (other than simply having better players on the pitch playing in a coherent way). On the one hand, I totally understand the lack of legs Casemiro has but on the other, does that mean you have to allow him to play first time through balls, flick passes, which created gaps of space to appear because it was causing turnovers and a lack of control? Those things were more tactical/instructions than physical/technical.
In hindsight, perhaps I may been a bit too harsh on Carrick but I do think it was a legitimate concern. Anyways it's only one game and pre-season so let's see how this play outs. I do feel the optimism is definitely based on more solid ground however small and projected it is thus far. I'm looking forward to seeing Cunha, Amad, Bruno, Mainoo, Mount and the likes of Lacey receiving passes in the half spaces where they can turn and immediately commit a defender to a 1 vs 1 to break lines or make another incisive pass.
I can understand those criticisms to an extent. I'm not sure we'll ever become a high intensity pressing team under Carrick. On Casemiro though, agreed on the first time balls and flick passes, but if he wasn't doing those what was he going to do with the ball from deeper positions? What instructions could Carrick have given him that wouldn't have resulted in the same or worse? He's not a metronome, not particularly press resistant, and he was never going to create space by bursting past someone or working in tight pockets like Mainoo can. If he's not playing it quickly and instead dwells on the ball he's more likely to be a trigger for pressing and lose it in a more vulnerable part of the pitch, and that wouldn't help with our midfield control either. As great as he was defensively and in the opposition box, I just don't think it was possible to build a balanced, controlling midfield out of Case, Mainoo and Bruno. I think you'd need a proper midfield three with two more possession oriented passers next to him.
And yeah, not the first pre-season where I've convinced myself there are things to be positive about, but I'm very intrigued to see how this new midfield can enhance our attack.
He’s criminally underrated I think. People comparing this to an Ole situation are insane
I'm happy with the team he is building.
It's starting to look more technical, with an emphasis on quick, line-breaking passing.
A nice alternative to the endless sideways passing we've seen throughout the years.
It's starting to look more technical, with an emphasis on quick, line-breaking passing.
A nice alternative to the endless sideways passing we've seen throughout the years.
We might finally see us control games. Even when we are up
Agreed on the bolded, not that I'm overly concerned about it anyways. There many ways to play effective football and reach the realistic goals we'd want based on our current development taking into account our ownership etc. As for Casemiro, I thought he was capable of being a good ball recycler as the pivot whilst playing progressively in a fairly conservative manner. I don't blame him too much as he was kind of given carte blanche by ETH and we benefited from that; I just think he was left to his own devices too much when it came to being expansive with the ball because we had so little structure in our general build up. In a similar vein, you could say the same for Bruno.
A lack of instructions/tactics and the platform lead to over playing where they felt the need to inject speed and vertical movement. When Casemiro played short and focused on getting to the ball to the likes of Dalot (around the corner passes from the GK), to Mainoo and Bruno in the middle I think we came out well with it as it opened up the pitch. Don't get me wrong, that trio is still flawed but I expected a bit 'more' from Carrick to clamp down on the imprecise box-to-box play as it didn't suit our mid-block, ceding possession approach. It was counterintuitive to the mitigation of our weaknesses, which is following the ball backwards in large spaces. Of course I recognise he came in mid-season so there's that of course.
PSG will be an interesting one.
Feels like teams with CBs and a keeper who can accurately hit a long pass and break out that way will be able to exploit the system, but the players do look comfortable with it and we've certainly been tactically better in pre-season than usual. Might be a lot of space for Tielemans or Mainoo to cover, though.
He'll need a plan B for games where it's clear early on that the opposing manager and players have worked out how to build up against it, because it's not a high or intense enough pressing system to starve them of time, it just forces them to have to go longer in buildup than teams seem to be used to nowadays. Hope he's the type to pull the trigger on a tactical change even after 20-30 minutes when that's needed.
He looked so young back then…because he was. He was only 25 (his 45th birthday was in fact on Tuesday 28 July, meaning he signed for us back in 2006 only 3 days after his 25th birthday). I was 7 back then, and now I’m 27. Time flies.
And the thing is, other than Owen Hargreaves, whom we signed the following year, he’s probably the most recently signed midfielder by us who was unambiguously good.
Excited to see how he’s transforming our style of play this season. More possession… more dominant based style
Well said, total lack of patience and foresight amongst fans.
I don't expect Utd to challenge for the league or CL this season, but you want a good season, be competitive against the strongest teams, get to the latter stages of the CL and be up near the top of the PL for CL football again next season.
Youre still young. Why do you spend your time in Longest numbered posts thread
I can understand all of that.
The thing is, we have a relatively young and inexperienced manager. And whether he can repeat the very good run of results at the end of last season is an open question.
We have seen a very similar thing before with Ole, only for it to fall flat.
But I am more optimistic than I was then because I think that Michael Carrick is a better coach and has a better coaching team.
So I am prepared to wait and see how things develop.
One or two astute additions and we should be okay. Especially if Mason Mount can stay fit and Radford puts the past behind him and rediscovers his scoring.
Yeah perhaps he was serious about building a midfield that has similar profile to PSG (no I'm not saying Santos and Tielemans is on same level as Vitinha and Neves). Makes me think he isn't looking for that pure destroyer type DM, perhaps is looking for someone who has defensive profile but can also play as well. A little bit of me is excited to see who that turns out to be. I feel he should push for prioritising a move for Hall while we wait for the domino's to fall in midfield.
If I was Carrick I’d be knocking on the owners door… asking for more signings. We never seem to have a good window after qualifying for the CL. We have a really good chance to push on next season with a lot of changes to the other teams competing
Strange as there is a huge chance to move up for good but we are too reluctant to build a squad that has it to stay up there
Probably because the money isn't there
I think the rumours were correct about us playing the way we did was a temporary adjustment for getting the best out of Casemiro.
Casemiro was great at many things but was pretty terrible in possession. He could make a great pass but was so prone to giving up cheap possession or being caught on the ball. It made sense to be less controlled under him.
Now Carrick has the opportunity to build a team that can pass progressively but is also calm on the ball and not prone to getting dispossessed. It will change the whole dynamic of the team in my opinion. Really interested to see how it all pans out when Bruno and Cunha are back out there.
Casemiro was great at many things but was pretty terrible in possession. He could make a great pass but was so prone to giving up cheap possession or being caught on the ball. It made sense to be less controlled under him.
Now Carrick has the opportunity to build a team that can pass progressively but is also calm on the ball and not prone to getting dispossessed. It will change the whole dynamic of the team in my opinion. Really interested to see how it all pans out when Bruno and Cunha are back out there.
Yeah they are both probably looking forward to being found by progressive passes from Santos and Tielemans. Might get our first little taste of it when we play PSG next Saturday.
I can understand where people are coming from in saying that he should push the board to sign Hall, 3rd midfielder plus find takers for Zirkzee and Rashford. Unfortunately they know that's not in his nature to demand things though.
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Will be a bit of a challenge, readjusting to a full program of games this coming season. So far, happy with INEOS’ input and Carrick showing promise. G2c we went for the “sentimental option” when we could’ve had de Zerbi etc
Good crop of young uns coming through too. Still feeling cautious but things certainly look more promising than they have for a long time, despite some concerns at the club and the game at large.Long way to go, but fingers crossed.
Good crop of young uns coming through too. Still feeling cautious but things certainly look more promising than they have for a long time, despite some concerns at the club and the game at large.Long way to go, but fingers crossed.
Just a reminder, you literally can’t say something like that and expect to get a good deal for him — loan or sale
All of our leverage in a negotiation is 100% grounded in the notion that we could and would be willing to keep him
IMO Carrick and the club are playing a bad hand as well as they can right now
How is it a bad hand when Carrick says he is willing to reintegrate Rashford, surely that would strengthen things when it comes to clubs wanting him
It's a bad hand as we're lumbered with him, we're playing it well by saying we're willing to reintegrate him
Yeah that's what I said