Very open footbal and struggled with the Bayern dressing room. He's carries different but equal risks
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Michael Carrick - Permanent Head Coach
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Probably deserves it but not very inspiring.
- Posing in front of trophies he won as a player not a manager
- Wearing blue
- arms folded showing closedness
Excellent. Now sign some midfielders.
Carrick is a midfielder
You're a midfielder.
His win record far exceeds the others. It’s nothing more than that, no need to go all
Hulk
VP has made some of the points I would have responded with. Additionally, even the nature of when Carrick will be getting the job is different from when we just gave it to Ole with months in the season to go. I also feel we haven't just given it to Carrick off the back of it being easy (which we did with Ole), and we have had a proper look around and the targets the club would actually consider are unavailable (Nagelsmann, Enrique, Tuchel etc) so have opted for the shorter term option and letting Carrick continue to prove himself, while mindful of a future change.
I think this is the correct course. And the time under Ole for what it's worth was still the best period I feel I have had supporting United in the last 7/8 years, so if next season goes how one of Ole's full seasons went I'd be quite happy.
Sensible choice for stability. Get some signings in, get the bomb squad out of the door, and keep moving in the right direction.
The right person. The role of the coach has changed. Of the three levels in football - owner/boardroom, coach, and players - the coach has the least power and the least important role. His job is simply to manage the day to day working environment and Carrick has demonstrated that is a perfect fit for that. A coach is no longer is the difference maker in the grand scheme of things and not the most important role in the club. Once Guardiola leaves City, the era of the coach with his philsophy shaping a whole club will be gone, just as Guardiola replaced the old idea of the manager (at least in English football) controlling everything from top to bottom.
Not getting into the Ole comparison, but it's extremely generous to refer to a second half parking of the bus at home to Brentford as being tactically flexible. A mid block and a low block is all we've seen under him really.
He needs to rapidly move away from the underdog approach and make serious progress towards controlling matches if he's to have any hope of seeing out the contract. Otherwise the unsustainability of our current system will catch up with us.
Uninspiring stuff but let’s hope for the best
Flexibility wasn’t really Ole’s main issue. He was just an okay manager. At this level, for a club of our ambition, we need someone brilliant. Okay or merely good even is nowhere near sufficient.
Obviously I'll back him and want him to do well, seems like a nice guy, but I feel this is a horrible mistake. Feels like Solskjaer all over again.
His results have been great but overall performances nothing to write home about and next season we will have a lots more games to try and navigate.
His results have been great but overall performances nothing to write home about and next season we will have a lots more games to try and navigate.
Is the third year option to extend the club's decision or Carrick's? First seems more likely, just want to know for sure.
Parking the bus is a bit disingenuous, we looked a lot better after the tactical change for a period. Ive made more points than just that.
Flexibility and a failure to value the tactical side was certainly a big part of his failure. The biggest part was arguably squad building, which goes hand in hand with the first point. It was these two factors which led to his collapse.
Yeah, same here. I get hiring Carrick over some random names thrown around but Nagelsmann over Carrick is no brainer. I am a bit surprised that we didn't go hard to hire him. He fits all boxes to be United manager.
How do you come up with that? The idea that the manager is the least important piece seems wild to me. All the groups you listed - players, boardroom, coaches - are reliant on each other. What can be said though is that the coach is probably the one who has to live with the least amount of job security. But not because he is somehow less important - but because boardroom members tend to not change themselves and since players are costly, it is often just cheaper to get rid of.
I think, you are seriously underrating what they bring to the table. I'd say, that this also isn't the same for all clubs - at Brighton, the boardroom is probably more relevant for the football side of things than for example at United. And at Real Madrid, the players are more important than the players for Nottingham.
I think Carrick has proven himself more than Solskjaer did before getting the job full time. I agree it's not a very inspired choice, but I think Carrick has earned it.
He's not available. And even if he would join it wouldn't be until after the World Cup, which would have a significant impact on our prepared for next season.
Moan! The world is on fire! Doooomed
There's an argument to say that Carrick has done what was needed, ie, simplify the approach/tactics based on the players he has at his disposal.
The players were not suited to Amorims formation, that was obvious, Carrick was smart enough, or at least willing enough, to see this and rectify the situation with a formation and tactics that suits the players he has currently.
What's not to say that Carrick's United will start controlling games once there's a mobile midfielder available or a speedy CB, or a tricky winger?
Carrick is a clever manager, he regularly got his Boro team to control games, he can definitely do the same at United.
Bore off
Not overly enthusiastic about this as I still don't feel the games have been that great. We got results but it doesn't feel sustainable
Of course I hope I am wrong and he is the right guy but I don't 100% feel it. I would feel better if we did this knowing (not to say we didn't) go to the best in the world and offer them a blank cheque only for them to say no and then decided to stick than go for a more obvious gamble
Of course I hope I am wrong and he is the right guy but I don't 100% feel it. I would feel better if we did this knowing (not to say we didn't) go to the best in the world and offer them a blank cheque only for them to say no and then decided to stick than go for a more obvious gamble
But haven't we celebrated that our transfer business shouldn't be too connected to who the manager is? And since there is a World cup for most of our better players will play - what difference does it make? (I don't really know where the Nagelsmann idea comes from to be honest. I don't think he is the perfect guy for the job but he certainly would have been a more ambitious choice)
Completely agree.
Nothing says that for sure. But that works in both ways. And the more reasonable approach is that you expect people to continue doing what they did before. The way we play isn't just down to the player personal. I am sure you don't mean it like that but that question can be interpreted as a "we need the perfect squad first to play good football" and I think that idea has been rightfully binned in the past.
From what I read, it was control of the ball without much penetration. A little bit like LVG in that respect. And when he managed to play like that with the squad he found himself with at Boro, why did he go mostly for the opposite with us? Remember the players LVG had here, and he still managed to tick the "control possession" checkmark.
You asked for games and he gave some. Brenford might not have been the best example but the rest are. It's the PL I doubt any team has had a perfect 90. Liverpool had a good 25mins in the 2nd and 1 of there goals we gave to them, United bossed 65% of that game. This it's only been good results and poor performances shite needs to stop. Clearly been some excellent games with a few good to decent and a few bad ones too. I would say this post below from, @bosnian_red sums it up for me.
Also depends on his permanent staff… we’re looking at bringing in the guy that works under Kompany at Bayern and worked under Carrick at Middlesbrough. Also crucial in keeping Steve Holland as he’s been praised for certain aspects by some players.
Not really. He had no great tactical vision. It’s not inflexibility but a weak plan A. It wasn’t a surprise. We hired a mediocre manager with no great accomplishments at the highest level to manage a behemoth of a football club.
Pretty sure you've got this the other way around.
btw:
based on the list you quoted
excellent: 3.5
good: 4
decent: 2.5
bad: 3
awful: 2
That is fairly even and thats me not getting into that almost all of the excellent performances came in the beginning of his stint while almost all of the not so good performances came in the 2nd part. I also don't agree with those evaluations although thats obviously very subjective. Feels more like an evaluation of the results, not the performances.
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When United’s board decided to part ways with Amorim and appoint Carrick as interim manager with the clear objective of securing Champions League qualification, the plan was simple: reassess the managerial situation once the season ended and then decide on the permanent appointment.
I don’t think even in their wildest dreams the board expected things to go this well. Ironically, that has both simplified and complicated the decision-making process.
The general mood among the players, a large portion of the fanbase, and many journalists has been overwhelmingly positive. Carrick has stabilised the atmosphere around the club, brought a sense of calm, and managed to get both players and staff pulling in the same direction. That stability has undoubtedly played a huge role alongside the team’s outstanding results.
Taking everything into account, it became very difficult for the board to justify any decision other than offering Carrick the permanent role. The handful of managers who might realistically have convinced the board to go in a different direction were either already employed elsewhere or simply not interested. In the end, that made the decision fairly straightforward.
That said, Carrick will need to strengthen his coaching staff ahead of next season — I think most people would agree on that. Just as importantly, we need a strong transfer window with at least 4–5 quality additions. The recruitment of a proper defensive midfielder could be absolutely crucial to next season’s success.
There will be expectations. Minimum top four and at least reaching the Champions League Round of 16. But to be fair, those expectations would exist regardless of who took the job.
Personally, I support the board’s decision. I would have made the same call myself. The football hasn’t always been convincing, and we’ve still seen some of the same negative patterns that have plagued the club over the last 5–10 years under previous managers. The difference is that this time, we’ve found a way to win most of the tight matches.
And that matters.
I don’t think even in their wildest dreams the board expected things to go this well. Ironically, that has both simplified and complicated the decision-making process.
The general mood among the players, a large portion of the fanbase, and many journalists has been overwhelmingly positive. Carrick has stabilised the atmosphere around the club, brought a sense of calm, and managed to get both players and staff pulling in the same direction. That stability has undoubtedly played a huge role alongside the team’s outstanding results.
Taking everything into account, it became very difficult for the board to justify any decision other than offering Carrick the permanent role. The handful of managers who might realistically have convinced the board to go in a different direction were either already employed elsewhere or simply not interested. In the end, that made the decision fairly straightforward.
That said, Carrick will need to strengthen his coaching staff ahead of next season — I think most people would agree on that. Just as importantly, we need a strong transfer window with at least 4–5 quality additions. The recruitment of a proper defensive midfielder could be absolutely crucial to next season’s success.
There will be expectations. Minimum top four and at least reaching the Champions League Round of 16. But to be fair, those expectations would exist regardless of who took the job.
Personally, I support the board’s decision. I would have made the same call myself. The football hasn’t always been convincing, and we’ve still seen some of the same negative patterns that have plagued the club over the last 5–10 years under previous managers. The difference is that this time, we’ve found a way to win most of the tight matches.
And that matters.
That’s not what I said though is it? Like not even remotely. Keep the debate mature man you’re better than that.
I’m sure you can understand that having slow centre backs who prefer retreating to their box (massively the case with Martinez and Maguire) will either a) force your midfielders to retreat too and make your overall shape quite deep or b) they don’t drop deep and then subsequently leave a big gap between your defence and midfield.
If you’ve watched United games this season you’ll have seen that a or b happens a lot of the time. We’re not always compact enough and a lot of that boils down to our defence and midfield being detached or too deep. It’s obvious players like Bruno and Mainoo want to play in the final third so they need to be up there but are forced back. And that’s a huge reason why our midfield looks the way it does. Individually nobody here would be able to say that Bruno, Mainoo and Cas between them haven’t been our best players since Carrick came in. The fact they’ve performed very well individually but don’t look great collectively (off the ball) tells you a lot.
You’re referencing defences from 10-20 years ago when football was played quite differently to what it is now. And also Keown and Vidic are bad examples as neither were slow by any means.
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Oh I agree. That's why my #1 priority right now is stability when it comes from the manager. I'm pretty confident Carrick will keep us pretty consistent in results and while we won't reach the heights of Luis Enrique with him (probably), we also won't reach the lows of Ten Hag & Amorim (probably). Carrick I think for a couple of years can keep us in that top 5 while the people behind the scenes need to start doing their job - which is building the squad. The squad I think we both agree is severely lacking. No use hiring Luis Enrique and then asking him to get our squad to play like PSG. It's going to fail. The squad has a long way to go, and it's up to the recruitment team to add depth so we don't crumble outside the starting 11, and then (or at the same time), improve the quality consistently. It's going to take a few years because to even get to the level where we have players to challenge for big trophies, we will have to replace some of our attackers which in their eyes has already been done. And who knows if Bruno will be world class for another 2 years or another 5. We'll see when we get there! One step at a time though and the current step for me is stay in the CL next year and be respectable in all the cups. Then we can gauge the play style as well for those that see it as a problem, with a better midfield group in. The key for me is to always judge the performance levels & results relative to the squad we have. The coach can only do so much, it's the people behind him that have to step up. Being in the CL consistently will help bring in better players and will also help highlight where the true issues lie, our true level relative to the top clubs.
It's not just transfer business, though. He'll need time to settle, find a home, understand the players, the club, facilities and how to set up. Probably a lot of other things, too.
And then if Germany underwhelms at the WC there's additional pressure on him.
If you think Liverpool bossed us for 65% now I know your doing this to get a reaction. We bossed the first half and got the better of them in the latter stages of the second.
Agreed.
It is an issue but not that big. Lots of our players are also on World Cup. He would be at the club at the same time as them. He would be missing couple of trainings with backup players basically.
Was he interested/available is another story. He was worth a shot.
I tend to not go as dramatic as most when it comes to "football has evolved" talk, but if you want your team to be a high press team, you obviously just need more athletic and quicker defenders. Maguire and Martinez are slow, they naturally will drop deeper, and leave more space in the midfield to cover. More space makes it impossible to press properly. It's not like everyone needs to be rapid, I'd see it more as a threshold. Need to have someone who is rapid, but the rest have to be quick enough to get by. I'd say it's more important to have quicker defenders than in midfield. If you close the space down from the back, then the space the midfield has to cover is a lot more compact and they shouldn't be sprinting often.
Even at my own super low sunday league level, with injuries and some age I've transitioned to playing as a CB. You have to sprint far more often as a CB than you do as a midfielder. Your pace gets challenged a lot more, while in midfield it's more endurance and intelligence/technique.
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