That will make the people who think we over indulged Amorim very happy.
Michael Carrick - Permanent Head Coach
- Thread starter Bastian
- Start date
-
In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) chats to author, Dan Williamson, about his new book 'If I Hadnt Seen Such Riches' which chronicles our 1990/91 European Cup Winners Cup victory, which is a trip down memory lane for those old enough to remember it and a vital history lesson for those who don't.
- Status
That will make the people who think we over indulged Amorim very happy.
I don't care what the nonsensical xG/xGA/xPts say, Amorim is the worst manager we have ever had by a margin
Country mile
He played for both but he's been a Barcelona man since.
That tells you advanced metrics means shit.
I’ll take actual points over xpoints every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Except the main one. Y’know the on that determines the position o the table and gets people fired. Rack your brain I’m sure it’ll come to you. The rest don’t mean squat if you have that one.
Underlying defensive statistics apparently don't mean anything in this thread. Results and underlying attacking statistics under Amorim did not coincide because of some dark magic voodoo I suppose, not because we were playing in a way that was inconducive to winning football matches given the players available.
Last edited by a moderator:
We had more good performances and more bad performances under Amorim, proportionally. Most of our performances under Carrick have been average with the good and bad ones about the same amount.
Maybe I was watching the games through a more emotional lens, but I enjoyed the Carrick games much much more than the Amorim games. Broadly I thought the highs were marginally better under Carrick, but they were much more enjoyable because there wasn't the contstant fear of implosion. We do agree the lows under Amorim were much lower.
I enjoyed Carrick's tenure more too but that's because the results under Amorim were predictable. There were no highs under Amorim, regardless of any of the good performances under him.
What an absolute crock of shite.
It’s absolutely insane to me that any fan would still try to claim that Amorim’s spell wasn’t an utter horror show from start to finish.
Everything was utterly shite, barely a good performance in there.
Literally the best anyone ever had was a defeat to Arsenal, a team Carrick went away and beat.
Amorim made us an absolute laughing stock.
Last edited:
Couldnt agree more.
feck me? You miss Grimsby? Everton? Brentford? City away? Spurs away? Villa home? Wolves home? West Han home? Bournemouth home?
You really gonna with a straight face claim our win at Stamford bridge was worse than those?
Or that our win vs. Fulham at home was worse than our defeat to 10 men Everton?
Or that drawing away to Sunderland was worse than our draw at home to fecking Wolves?
Our defeat versus Leeds goes clearly into the top 10 worst performances for me but the following nine are all performances under the absolute shit show that was Amorim.
100%, he had us finish 15th in the league and had loads of fans accepting it as our "squad was that level".
Bruno deep mid, Dorgu and Dalot as the key outlets in that horrible wing back system. Marginalising Mainoo. Every time we went a goal down you knew we were finished.
Carrick taking us to the 27/28 PL title then as per Berrada’s aim. Let’s go lads
How magical would that be?! I would love if one of our former players could actually become a great, exciting coach. Seeing players like Alonso and Fabregas look exciting has me jealous.
I sincerely hope we see a lot of improvement in our attacking play. It would be nice to definitively know what Carrick wants us to play like in his ideal world.
100% and I am so glad we have now taken that power away from the manager. A manager has very limited time to be able to adequately scout players and listening to managers over scouts cost us Kroos and Thiago and landed us with Matic, Antony, Maguire for 80m and many others.
Except the main one points and games won, whatever you want to cling to Amorim but give me a winbing team than being 3 in pressing stats for fecks sake, our form was atrocious we drew or lost to basically all the teams at the bottom of the table
The mistakes were largely because our set up was particularly poorly suited to many of our players. Bruno and Casemiro fighting to cover fast transitions when the opposition beat our press. CBs being pulled into channels when opposition runners had bypassed Bruno and Casemiro, leaving us disorganized and vulnerable down the channels and in the middle. Players like Dalot consistently finding themselves further forward than players like Bruno, squandering chances in the process. There were systemic reasons why we were failing to convert chances, and conceding so many soft goals. Call that modern if you like, but it was very ineffective when it came to winning games and picking up points.
Last edited:
At the start of the season Liverpool were winning a lot, leading the table while having bad performances. Results and performances don't always match.
Carrick is clearly the right decision, given the present circumstances. There's no guarantee it will work out brilliantly for us, and in fact most managers are sacked eventually given what we know now the board made the right call, but it is the right call at this time.
Who knows what more influence over transfer really means, but we should hope that the level of influence Carrick has over transfers is nothing like the level of influence ten Hag had. I trust Carrick to get it mostly right, but INEOS has passed with flying colors so far, especially with their two relatively budget buys, Lammens and Dorgu.
Who knows what more influence over transfer really means, but we should hope that the level of influence Carrick has over transfers is nothing like the level of influence ten Hag had. I trust Carrick to get it mostly right, but INEOS has passed with flying colors so far, especially with their two relatively budget buys, Lammens and Dorgu.
I’m with you on this. I just feel more confident we’ll do enough to win games under Carrick even when we’re not playing great. Conceding a frustrating equalizer and dropping points always felt like an inevitability under Amorim, which made us far less enjoyable to watch.
We never had any good performances. We had 10-15 spells every now and again that looked promising.
Don't love this if true. For no manager. It's exactly what we wanted to move away from
Wouldn't be surprised if hes already at Liverpool at that point after slot has an awful start to the season.
Yep, and I think a large part of that was stylistic. Was listening to a podcast the other week that noted that under Carrick we average something like 80%+ pass completion when we're ahead, whereas under Amorim it was much less than that.
In other words, once we go ahead we now try to control the game by keeping the ball. And in general Carrick's approach has seen both sides keep the ball more and create less in our games. Whereas Amorim had us playing less controlled, higher variance football both generally and especially when we were ahead, and that's gonna see you get burned sometimes.
More control is a good thing, imo.
Last edited:
And there was never any difference in their defensive organization regardless of the result. They were laughably east to play against match week 1 against Bournemouth, and laughably easy to play against match week 37 against Villa. There is a stark difference in that regard between United under Amorim and United under Carrick.
Yep, agreed. The big question is now whether he can build on that, and our summer transfer window is going to go a long way towards making or breaking him on that front.
Even more infuriating is that so many times it was either via a counter attack or a set piece conceded as a result of a counter attack.
We were definitely way worse overall under Amorim. I think we may have been more dangerous offensively at times, but overall we were way more vulnerable and regularly looked undermanned.
I was even told by someone in the dressing room that they felt like we were always a man down in Amorim's shape and it was visible for us watching. We would often sit back and eventually concede, whereas with Carrick we seem mentally better. We have conceded in games and then almost calmly retook control and scored ourselves, whereas under Amorim we never looked like we believed we could overturn the negative. With Amorim, as soon as the opposition got on top it felt like an avalanche and a loss was incoming.
I have many reservations about Carrick but I loved him as a player and he has done great since coming in so hopefully he proves to be better than we could imagine. My main hope is that we are done with sentimentality and if he is not up to scratch, we don't play mental gymnastics and stick with a plan that clearly isn't working.
Not really, we get out played but come out with the win.
3 midfielders manager 3 of the top teams in the prem. next seasons going to be interesting. Alls we need now is Fabregas to come and join… I always seen Alonso going to Liverpool and Fabregas to Chelsea.
Indeed. He still gets plaudits for some for our attacking metrics which were largely built on turnovers and transitions, yet they ignore the defensive frailties which were the other side of the coin from that very same approach. For all the talk of our current results not being sustainable, Amorim’s “modern” approach was never sustainable either, unless we somehow built a near perfect squad which consistently out matched our opponents in those transitions, both defensively and offensively.
Can see Slot getting the boot next season and Fabregas going to them.
Would be funny that. Kompany to become City manager too after Pep leaves ?
Isn't Cesc a part owner? I feel like he may stay there until he feels he has hit a ceiling rather than moving because a big team calls.
Ugarte and Zirkzee not quite so successful.
Seeing how De Ligt and Yoro pan out too.
Most after that have been good though.
Which shouldn’t come as a shock 2nd part of the season. Fergie used to bang on about results being more important. Plenty of times we played badly but still took the points. That can point towards a good team too
I think it’s a mistake. Can’t blame anyone who thinks it’s the right call and hope I’m the one proven wrong.
Adds nothing to the discussion
Unfortunately there will be many on this site that will secretly prefer Carrick to fail (United to do bad) just so they can be proven right.
- Status