Michael Carrick - Permanent Head Coach

[Jonnymufc]

Miricale worker

Getting 3rd place with donkeys like Amad, Mbuemo, Zirkzee and Dorgu among his attacking options

One of the best jobs in the premier league in the last couple of year, all 4 of the above are absolutley useless

Absolutely ridiculous take

 

[Abhinav]

Another great thing about the goal apart from the build up was that we got 5 players into the box when Bruno crosses the ball into the box. Such a difference from Amorim’s when it always felt we were playing with one less man in the opposition half.

 

[Alex B]

But if we sign a 2+1 we’re not being crippled with a huge payout anyway. That’s already a short contract. Offering a one year deal is just trying to have your cake and eat it - it unnecessarily breeds short term thinking and empowers the players more than the manager. We either want Carrick to be our manager or not, and if we do then we can only assume the club has had detailed discussions with him regarding goals, playing style etc. Anyway it’s all moot - the club just aren’t going to offer him a one year deal because there are good reasons not to.

Well a 2yr (fixed) at what I'm assuming the going rate is of 300-350k per week is £31-36m. It's an enormous payout if things aren't working 6 months in as the payout would be over £23m. Would absolutely need to have lots of subjective KPIs in there as the objective measurement ones will no doubt be seasonal. He may accept a fixed termination fee given his aforementioned lack of background.

Anyway we will see. I'm really happy for him and think his appointment is the best move!

 

[hellhunter]

Well a 2yr (fixed) at what I'm assuming the going rate is of 300-350k per week is £31-36m. It's an enormous payout if things aren't working 6 months in as the payout would be over £23m. Would absolutely need to have lots of subjective KPIs in there as the objective measurement ones will no doubt be seasonal. He may accept a fixed termination fee given his aforementioned lack of background.

Anyway we will see. I'm really happy for him and think his appointment is the best move!

For a manager?!

 

[JediSith]

We won't know until we see some results next year. Since we're going to finish 3rd and will be investing substantially this summer, the expectation will be the same or better form as we've seen over the past four months and a serious push for a league and CL.

Yeah I hope the board don’t mess up this window. A good midfield rebuild is the minimum.

 

[Abhinav]

Well a 2yr (fixed) at what I'm assuming the going rate is of 300-350k per week is £31-36m. It's an enormous payout if things aren't working 6 months in as the payout would be over £23m. Would absolutely need to have lots of subjective KPIs in there as the objective measurement ones will no doubt be seasonal. He may accept a fixed termination fee given his aforementioned lack of background.

Anyway we will see. I'm really happy for him and think his appointment is the best move!

I doubt Carrick will be anywhere near that. Pep is reported to be on £20m per year base so that sort of sets the ceiling. Amorim was reported to be on £6.5m per year base, so that’s what I assume Carrick would be close to getting with performance linked bonuses on top.

 

[Raoul]

Yeah I hope the board don’t mess up this window. A good midfield rebuild is the minimum.

Fortunately we don't have any urgent needs elsewhere, so I could see us going big on midfielders (plus potentially an experienced backup striker).

 

[davidmichael]

Well a 2yr (fixed) at what I'm assuming the going rate is of 300-350k per week is £31-36m. It's an enormous payout if things aren't working 6 months in as the payout would be over £23m. Would absolutely need to have lots of subjective KPIs in there as the objective measurement ones will no doubt be seasonal. He may accept a fixed termination fee given his aforementioned lack of background.

Anyway we will see. I'm really happy for him and think his appointment is the best move!

I’d be very surprised if Carrick was even on a third of that a week, Ineos wouldn’t sanction that for a world class player let alone a coach.

 

[royboy16]

There will be a lot of games next season,he’s done well this season but the pressure will be on next season.

 

[moses]

There will be a lot of games next season,he’s done well this season but the pressure will be on next season.

The players are the ones that will feel that the most and without more squad depth most managers would struggle.

 

[royboy16]

The players are the ones that will feel that the most and without more squad depth most managers would struggle.

True but if things don’t go well he will be out not the players.

 

[JediSith]

Fortunately we don't have any urgent needs elsewhere, so I could see us going big on midfielders (plus potentially an experienced backup striker).

I think FB. Every team that challenges and wins titles has world class fullbacks. I don’t see Dalot and Shaw (anymore ) as good enough. I think Dorgu could be a great left winger to compete with Cunha or play there if ever Cunha plays as a 10

 

[Raoul]

I think FB. Every team that challenges and wins titles has world class fullbacks. I don’t see Dalot and Shaw (anymore ) as good enough. I think Dorgu could be a great left winger to compete with Cunha or play there if ever Cunha plays as a 10

Yeah but I don't suspect the club would agree. Both seem fairly well anchored into the lineup and we also have the likes of Maz and the future of young Diego Leon to consider. The main consideration will be CM and probably an experienced backup striker.

 

[roseguy64]

What an absolute crock of shite.

It’s absolutely insane to me that any fan would still try to claim that Amorim’s spell wasn’t an utter horror show from start to finish.
Everything was utterly shite, barely a good performance in there.
Literally the best anyone ever had was a defeat to Arsenal, a team Carrick went away and beat.

Amorim made us an absolute laughing stock.

Where have I said Amorim was a good Man Utd manager? I wanted him gone at the end of last season.

 

[Globule]

Maybe I was watching the games through a more emotional lens, but I enjoyed the Carrick games much much more than the Amorim games. Broadly I thought the highs were marginally better under Carrick, but they were much more enjoyable because there wasn't the contstant fear of implosion. We do agree the lows under Amorim were much lower.

For a start, what were the standout good performances under Amorim? I genuinely cannot remember.

 

[moses]

For a start, what were the standout good performances under Amorim? I genuinely cannot remember.

We won at Anfield. That’s always fun. But to be honest, that conversation is done for me. Zero craic. Roll on next year and a heap of excellent signings.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Where have I said Amorim was a good Man Utd manager? I wanted him gone at the end of last season.

You attempted to claim we had more good performances under Amorim than Carrick has had, claiming Amorim was highs and lows whereas Carrick has simply been average, which is absolute bollocks.

Amorim was low after low after low.

Yet today, Liverpool, Arsenal, City, Villa, Spurs have all been absolutely excellent games under Carrick.

 

[Redfrog]

I get that people have been scarred by Ole (which was actually a pretty good tenure all told) but Carrick has done great.

If he was judged by the same standard as that utter halfwit Amorin we would be calling for a knighthood at this point.

How was Carrick held to a higher standard by the fanbase than Amorin?

That’s a compliment to him from the haters, even if they don’t get it.
He is much much better then Amorim, who was the worst in United’s history by the way.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Now that he has got the job what we really need to see is his out of possession tactics. Currently we are just far too open when we lose the ball and it's just too easy to get out to our back 4. It's practically impossible to succeed playing like that.

 

[Frosty]

Now that he has got the job what we really need to see is his out of possession tactics. Currently we are just far too open when we lose the ball and it's just too easy to get out to our back 4. It's practically impossible to succeed playing like that.

We have known all season that we were short in midfield, and we chose (correctly with hindsight) to focus on buying forwards. I hope that this can be rectified with some solid midfield purchases.

 

[Redfrog]

We had many very good performances under Amorim. Results and performance are two different things. Results under Carrick have been vastly better, no one sane would argue otherwise. Sunderland away, West Ham away, Fulham at home, Newcastle away, Leeds at home, Chelsea away. All under Carrick. All PERFORMANCE wise in the bottom 10 performances of the season.

We couldn’t have a clear cut chance under Amorim. We were « dominant » but cluless, just passing the ball around a packed defense and having hopless shots, then teams countered and scored easiely.
If you call that good performances, you don’t have a clue. It was awful and naïve football. All the players were all over the place : Bruno in the midfield while being the most creative player in the league, Amad and Dorgu a wingbacks, Mbeumo as a 10, Cunha as a striker.
Never seen a worst manager in my Life time. Inshould suffer no more.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Now that he has got the job what we really need to see is his out of possession tactics. Currently we are just far too open when we lose the ball and it's just too easy to get out to our back 4. It's practically impossible to succeed playing like that.

It’a been like that for 3 years man, Carrick’s been here a little over 4 months.
We need new players, that much is very obvious.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We had many very good performances under Amorim.

“Many”.

Like feck we did.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

We have known all season that we were short in midfield, and we chose (correctly with hindsight) to focus on buying forwards. I hope that this can be rectified with some solid midfield purchases.

Well midfield signings are definitely going to help but our attackers will need more structure too. In the current PL situation just two midfielders can't cover everything. Our press from the attackers is very haphazard.

 

[moses]

This is the Carrick thread folks.

 

[peridigm]

We had many very good performances under Amorim.

Yes, but only twice is a row one time.

 

[Biggins]

For a start, what were the standout good performances under Amorim? I genuinely cannot remember.

That Arsenal game. Duh …

 

[PeteReDevil]

Just saw his speech after the game. Loved how confident he seemed and looked to be his own self. If that makes sense. I remember being impressed by him at West Ham and seeing him as the manager now, doesn’t really look out of place.

 

[Alex B]

For a manager?!

I doubt Carrick will be anywhere near that. Pep is reported to be on £20m per year base so that sort of sets the ceiling. Amorim was reported to be on £6.5m per year base, so that’s what I assume Carrick would be close to getting with performance linked bonuses on top.

I’d be very surprised if Carrick was even on a third of that a week, Ineos wouldn’t sanction that for a world class player let alone a coach.

I genuinely assumed top manager weekly salaries were on par with top players. If we are only looking at a quarter to a third of my estimate then a 2 year contract seems fine

 

[Zumbi]

Well a 2yr (fixed) at what I'm assuming the going rate is of 300-350k per week is £31-36m. It's an enormous payout if things aren't working 6 months in as the payout would be over £23m. Would absolutely need to have lots of subjective KPIs in there as the objective measurement ones will no doubt be seasonal. He may accept a fixed termination fee given his aforementioned lack of background.

Anyway we will see. I'm really happy for him and think his appointment is the best move!

You’ve just made those numbers up. There’s no way in hell we’re paying anywhere near that much if he leaves in six months. Even Amorim only got a £10 million payout and his contract was till 2027.

But yeah, agreed with your last point.

 

[2 man midfield]

People would have you believe that we're some counter attack merchant as if they don't watch the games. This moves have been a Hallmark of Carrick ball. It's very effective.
Of course we'll need to do better out of possession especially pressing, but I think that's more about getting more mobile players in midfield. Get Carrick some really good midfielders and we could really surprise everyone next season.

Yep. The little triangles have definitely been something we've worked on, it's been going on for weeks now.

 

[Alex B]

You’ve just made those numbers up. There’s no way in hell we’re paying anywhere near that much if he leaves in six months. Even Amorim only got a £10 million payout and his contract was till 2027.

But yeah, agreed with your last point.

Well I wasn't making them up I did say I was assuming the going rate was £300-350k a week for a manager at a top club. I was very surprised to find out it is not! And should have checked.

 

[The Hilton]

Raw random metrics without context don’t tell the full story. For example in a squad lacking confidence or structure, with a high ceiling and jelly like foundations, priororitising stability over dominance, sometimes even sacrificing possession to reduce transition risk and improve control is the best a manager can do. These adjustments can improve results before they show up clearly in long-term statistical trends or the shape of the team. At a high-pressure club like Manchester United, at a time of increased scrutiny and chaos, reducing that chaos and improving game control and results is a very meaningful form of progress, even if the underlying metrics lag behind, marginally.

They aren't random, there's a plethora of metrics that suggest a greater level of success in football that we've clearly regressed in. Our average possession under Carrick, for example, is 49% (an average significantly aided by matches against 10 men, if we only include matches against 11 men it drops to 46.5%). The only team to win the Premier League in the past 20 years with a lower average possession is Leicester, which is a clear anomaly. Other areas we've regressed include xG for (1.72 vs 1.41) and against (1.18 to 1.28), big chances for (2.8 vs 2.6) and against (1.85 vs 2.15), touches in the opposition box, opposition touches in our box, etc.

Changes to our approach have been reflected in statistics immediately, it's why we've dropped off in so many because we've abandoned the ambition of controlling matches to focus on defensive solidity. Which has worked in results, but that's mostly through opposition profligacy as we're giving up more and better chances since the change.

Carrick got the results, and that was his remit for this ~half season, so there's no doubting he's been a great success as interim manager. But those results aren't sustainable, and without changes to our approach and performance levels we'll inevitably see a downturn in results next season.

 

[nacho cheese]

He is class personified. Michael Carrick is the classiest manager in the league.

 

[The Hilton]

You think he told the team to sit deep do you? Hmwhat else did he say? If you were in the dressing room of course.

He saw that our wingers weren't helping the full backs and made a good tweak, it was the right thing to do because there was always a double up on. As for the stats, yes please share them if you want to continue debating into a debate. Also please confirm what tactical flexibility means to you.

Are you suggesting that the players weren't following his instructions when they dropped into a low block? If that was the case, it would reflect much worse on Carrick.

It's clear to me that the players were following instructions, if you feel otherwise then we fundamentally disagree about how much respect Carrick has from the dressing room.

 

[r0663664]

Next year will be difficult with so many games, we iterally needs another 3-4 XI players and another 4 able backup. There will be injuries, tiredness and suspension to deal with. I cannot imagine if Bruno is out for a few months, who will be providing those assists? Where is the plan B? 2 solid midfielders is a must. Backup striker and LW to compete is also mandatory. Who will be the creator if Bruno is out? What is our plan B?

 

[Maluco]

He is going to need a lot of help.

Lammens
Reliable Sub GK needed

Dalot
Maz

Maguire (year older)
Martinez (fitness issues)
Heaven
Yoro (not ready)
de Ligt (out long term)
CB essential

Shaw (questionable fitness)
Dorgu (jury out at LB)
LB questions

Mainoo
Ugarte (not good enough to start games)
2 CM absolute minimum

Mbeumo
Amad (potentially not good enough)

Bruno
Mount

Cunha
Quality WG essential

Sesko
Zirkzee (not good enough to start games)
Backup CF needed

No striker options, no proper width, not even a starting midfield, never mind depth, and the issues at CB could derail a season quite easily.

If he is to succeed, he needs to be given the tools to do so; and to have real options and a robust squad. It’s 5 signings minimum and I hope we make them and don’t let him take the fall for a lack of real investment and preparation.

 

[kundalini]

They aren't random, there's a plethora of metrics that suggest a greater level of success in football that we've clearly regressed in. Our average possession under Carrick, for example, is 49% (an average significantly aided by matches against 10 men, if we only include matches against 11 men it drops to 46.5%). The only team to win the Premier League in the past 20 years with a lower average possession is Leicester, which is a clear anomaly. Other areas we've regressed include xG for (1.72 vs 1.41) and against (1.18 to 1.28), big chances for (2.8 vs 2.6) and against (1.85 vs 2.15), touches in the opposition box, opposition touches in our box, etc.

Changes to our approach have been reflected in statistics immediately, it's why we've dropped off in so many because we've abandoned the ambition of controlling matches to focus on defensive solidity. Which has worked in results, but that's mostly through opposition profligacy as we're giving up more and better chances since the change.

Carrick got the results, and that was his remit for this ~half season, so there's no doubting he's been a great success as interim manager. But those results aren't sustainable, and without changes to our approach and performance levels we'll inevitably see a downturn in results next season.

You are comparing one manager who played 3 matches against the two worst teams in the PL by a considerable margin, to a manager who will finish the season having not played Wolves or Burnley. According to Understat, Amorim had a net xG (xG - xGA) of + 10.5 this season, of which, + 6.4 came from the 3 matches against the bottom two teams. Carrick has a net xG (xG - xGA) of + 7.5. The BBC uses a different xG model, I checked the figures earlier this month, I believe they have the net xG for the three matches as + 5, though I didn't calculate their total for the matches under Amorim.

In conclusion, we've regressed across various metrics because Carrick didn't face Burnley or Wolves.

By the way, on Understat, the top 4 teams all have more points than xPTS. The bottom 4 teams all have fewer points than xPTS. It would hardly be a surprise if next season, Carrick gets more points than his team apparently deserves.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Dorgu is one at times with his technique

In my humble opinion, we are very lucky to have him the squad. Calling him a donkey is over the top.

 

[The Hilton]

You are comparing one manager who played 3 matches against the two worst teams in the PL by a considerable margin, to a manager who will finish the season having not played Wolves or Burnley. According to Understat, Amorim had a net xG of + 10.5 this season, of which, + 6.4 came from the 3 matches against the bottom two teams. The BBC uses a different xG model, I checked the figures earlier this month, I believe they have the net xG for the three matches as + 5, though I didn't calculate their total for the matches under Amorim.

In conclusion, we've regressed across various metrics because Carrick didn't face Burnley or Wolves.

Your premise is flawed, and even if it weren't your conclusion is incorrect. Taking out Amorim's matches against Burnley and Wolves reduces the regression a bit, but there's still a regression. 1.65 vs 1.41 xG for, 1.23 vs 1.28 xG against..