Mid-season assessment and your expectations

[Irwin99]

So we're one game away from the halfway point in the league season and we're in 8th place, we're into the semi finals of the league cup, we've progressed out of the Europa League group stage with top spot and we're still in the FA cup ( ). It's worth pointing out that besides Liverpool's form this looks to be the most mental of premier league seasons in terms of predicting results. We could just easily finish in the bottom half of the table as much as we might string some wins together and squeeze into the top 4.

After the Newcastle game I changed my vote to Ole out and have kept it that way but I will say that there have been more encouraging signs since the Liverpool game and especially with the results against Spurs and City. That being said it doesn't come as much of as a surprise that we don't beat teams like Everton and Watford. When teams don't play the way we want them too we look bereft of ideas and I don't think any January signings will solve this. I don't honestly think we will get top 4 and I think that's unacceptable for United however, we're a decent team on our day and I think we could possibly win a trophy in the knockout competitions. A cup final/trophy, a strong Europa league campaign (hopefully winning it) and at least a good battle for the top 4 is a reasonable ask.

This isn't a knee jerk thread or an Ole in or Ole out thread but I'm am curious to see what everyone's expectations are for the rest of the season. If you are Ole in what would it take for you to lose patience or say that this isn't working? Also what is the minimum you expect from this season in terms of progress? Vice versa, if you're 'Ole out' what sort of performances, results and form would change your mind? If Ole gets a trophy but misses out on Top 4 would you accept that as a sign of progress?

 

[RedNed77]

5/6th, exactly the same as any sensible person would have said at the start of the season given our lack of reinforcements and our intention to blood a lot of teenagers.

Edit: maybe a cup (league/UEFA) and a deepish run into the FA cup.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Start of season I expected

8th for me, maybe 7th. Expect we’ll have a new manager by the end of the season too.

Despite this I am pleased with the culture at the club. Very strong and very good culture we’re showing. The culture now is much better than it was under Mourinho.
Young academy players shining every week like Perreira and ermmm Lingard? Yeah I can see we’re building something but it will take 3:4 transfer windows before we can challenge for top 4 and not play mediocre football.

 

[TMDaines]

Top four will be a struggle to overturn that Chelsea lead. Expectations from here would be getting to get a cup final, winning some silverware and not finishing below anyone else bar Liverpool, City, Leicester, Chelsea and Spurs. That would be ‘decent’ from here. Top four would be excellent from here.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

My mid season assessment is we need 2 major signings in January.

 

[peridigm]

It's a grim one.

No incoming players in January despite heavy links to Haaland.
Knocked out by City. (yeah, we're not doing them twice in a row)
Knocked out by Wolves (again)
Knocked out of EL in the QF.
8th-12th in the league.

Ole gone in the summer but not before.

 

[Irwin99]

5/6th, exactly the same as any sensible person would have said at the start of the season given our lack of reinforcements and our intention to blood a lot of teenagers.

Edit: maybe a cup (league/UEFA) and a deepish run into the FA cup.

is that really enough though? It would have to be a very good cup run and at least a good battle for 4th to demonstrate enough progress. To be clear I have actually liked some of the things Ole has done in his time here but i'm not totally sold on his ideas.

A guy on here in the summer started a thread about where we would finish and took a lot of stick for it at the start of the season. I predicted 4th but I was trying to be positive after what was a disappointing summer in terms of the quantity of recruitment not necessarily the quality (still no RW or number 10 after all these years ffs). With the league the way it is the points gap to top 4 is not that concerning. I'm just not sure I believe in the players to get it together and go on a run.

 

[Untd55]

We have to be challenging for a top-four position (I would accept 5th as a minimum). Considering our team, we have been massively underperforming thus far, particularly against the lower teams.

I will not change my expectations from the start of the season for the team that we currently have. I think we have some very good players in this team, which is collectively good enough to challenge Chelsea for fourth position.

However, my expectations with Solskjaer in charge were lower. I predicted about 8th if we continued with him as manager which, at the moment, is accurate. This expectation I will adjust as I think our results against the lower have been so poor that I think we may now end up as lower than that.

I predict that our results will continue to be underwhelming against the lower teams, but I also believe our form against the top teams will drop off. Considering this, I think we could end up as low as tenth with the quality in the team dragging us into that position.

 

[RedTiger]

I still haven't changed my original predictions from the start of the season.

United to finish 3rd in the Prem with the Europa league title and deep runs in the two domestic cups.

 

[Nick7]

I think if we can get a new manager in, we could crack top 4. If not, probably 7th/8th. We won't win Europa, nor the Carabao Cup.

 

[M Bison]

I think we’ll finish 8th which I would have accepted at the start of the season, based on us ridding the negativity and clearing out some of the (perceived) bad apples.

I haven’t changed that outlook but it’s very difficult accepting performances like today and Everton, when you see the performances against City etc. I almost changed my vote following Sheff Utd, I thought the performance was dreadful and we looked like 11 strangers, not a unit.

I don’t think we’ll win anything but hopefully it gives us a base to work from for next season, with a less bloated squad (hope to see Matic and 1 or 2 others leave before next season).

 

[Andycoleno9]

I predicted that our form will be something like WLDWLDWLD and it is happening so i am not surprised with that.
With new manager, we can finish 4th and win one cup. 7 points in not big deal in PL. But with Ole, where we can't beat anybody away, 7th spot is realistic. Cups? No bloody way

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I expect a mid table finish for our overpaid midtable squad. Would be happy if we made the EL again.

Pretty much what I thought with league standing. But this was before we let Lukaku and Sanchez leave, so improvement on the wage bill.

 

[ash_86]

6th is what I thought and we'll finish there. Thats based on quality of the squad.

 

[RedNed77]

is that really enough though? It would have to be a very good cup run and at least a good battle for 4th to demonstrate enough progress. To be clear I have actually liked some of the things Ole has done in his time here but i'm not totally sold on his ideas.

A guy on here in the summer started a thread about where we would finish and took a lot of stick for it at the start of the season. I predicted 4th but I was trying to be positive after what was a disappointing summer in terms of the quantity of recruitment not necessarily the quality (still no RW or number 10 after all these years ffs). With the league the way it is the points gap to top 4 is not that concerning. I'm just not sure I believe in the players to get it together and go on a run.

For me the key is what we did in the summer. I got carried away early pre-season and thought just getting rid of the “deadwood” would be enough. Towards the end after playing AC Milan I changed my tune. We didn’t sign enough players and got rid of a fair few.

Our direction and trajectory over the last 6 years has been shite, nobody can wave a magic wand and fix that in 12 months with a splurge of cash. We are/were rotten to the core.

I’ve seen enough this season to forgive our ebb and flow, and our general inconsistency. We need some more additions, time, and some good luck with some of the younger lads coming good. But I’m still happy we will move forward if the above 3 things go our way and in 18 months we can be genuine challengers again with a solid and promising structure moving forward.

Fans acknowledged we would have a mixed season at the start of the year and are then surprised when results are actually mixed. the results and performances we’ve had so far are commensurate with a 5/6th place finish. Some expect us to smash everybody and still finish 5/6th. It’s bizarre.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I can't see us getting top 4 with Ole. A new manager might be able to do it.

The league cup is something we can win. City should suit us well and hopefully we can be up for it.
I do expect a harder time than the league game though.

In Europe I do expect us to mess up at some point. Although Romero should play in it so that gives us a better chance than having De Gea in goal.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

A difficult stat is that Liverpool have double the points approaching the half way point.

 

[Sandikan]

We're relying on a lot of young players, and young players tend to be erratic in their form.

We all knew we went into the season light in both attack and midfield - we literally all knew it.
When one of Martial or Rashford is out we look well under par, but we also look it when both aren't in great form - such as now.

A lot of work to be done, as per every year, for years!

 

[pascell]

Our squad at face value isn't good enough for top 4, so then you have to look at whether the manager can somehow get the best out of every player in the same system, unfortunately I don't think Ole is capable of that.

I think we'll finish 6th-8th and get to the semis of the EL.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

My pre-season prediction was something like 6th-8th. I have now re-evaluated this and I think we will finish closer to 10-12th. Which is inexcusable, I'm sorry. Absolutely inexcusable.

As our squad stands, and feeling that Pogba is likely to leave in January, I think we'll finish around 9th. We'll go out to City over two legs in the EFL Cup; Nuno has Ole's number so I expect us to crash out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle.

Europa League, maybe 1/4 finals.

 

[SAFMUTD]

We’ll finish between 6th and 9th, out Europa League probably around quarter finals or semifinals At most.

Ole out in the summer, in the meantime we’ll continue to have suddenly good games which will be seen as progress to then again go back again to poor results.

 

[bondsname]

I expect nothing from this team. Every game just leads to disappointment, I'm just so fecking tired.

If we win, I'll enjoy the hell of it from now on
If we lose, I'll just go one with my day as usual. We have completed the transition to a mid-table team, and imagine being a West Ham fan and having same expectations as Barcelona have, you'd go insane.

I hope we become what we used to be, a dominant force playing on the highest level on all fronts, but we are nowhere near that at the moment. Some serious changes need to happen first.

 

[passing-wind]

I've switched off from even being emotive when we lose we are being led by at best a mid table coach therefore we manifest mid table results and have an impoverished mid table mentality.

All of the fans backing Solskjaer are an embarrassment to the ambition that is required for the club to move forward. We aren't making progress under Solskjaer we have regressed to a point we are in a state of perpetual inconsistency. To be in a "decline" would offer a complement to our current circumstances. Hypothetically for Barcelona to go from winning titles to finishing in a European spot continually is a decline, we have already surpassed our transition of decline a decade of misfailings confirm this, however inconsistency is an even worse conundrum and the reason as to why relegation is even a concept.

We need a strong leader to coach this team to success, the team cannot manage itself, which I see very often posted on these forums like Ole has absolutely no responsibility to create a system that is sustained and persistent enabling us to win. That's why no individual players will make us a success. We can have Sancho, Maddison, Haaland, Modric and it will make no difference to our performances when we don't have the cohesion necessary to break down defences structured from the direction of the manager.

I'll stick by what I've said all along if we miss out of on top four Ole deserves the door. Why should LVG have been sacked finishing with a domestic cup (with a reasonable record against top 6) and Ole be kept when he offers LESS managerially. This whole situation including the mentality of many fans is ridiculous.

 

[redshaw]

Not much has changed. I expected some of the young players to improve, they have done but I still feel our squad is a 6th-10th one. We used to a have a 4th-6th one. I have an outside chance from the start we could finish the season strong after a lot of ups and downs with young players and poor summer shuffle of the squad.

I'm still expecting to miss out on the top 4 like at the start and to look at our situation and other managers, coaching/training staff come the end.

We have an outside shot at the Europa and will probably throw our eggs into that basket unless we can have major Jan signings to boost our league form and put a run near the end.

I was Ole out while there was still time but changed my vote to reflect that the time had passed and the form had picked up enough to be able to sit the top half which is probably ok with the club right now. The poll is meaningless now, he'll ride out the season unless we sit in the bottom half for a while. He's got the players onside but lacks many aspects and looks to be very slowly getting to grips with the job despite being manage for 10 years.

 

[Nickelodeon]

30 points from 25 games since being made permanent. Shocking but not surprising. We are the same as what we were when the season ended. Our squad is worse. Some players have got to go immediately. Europa needs to be made a priority right now. If we win and get into UCL, then get a better manager at the end of the season so we can make something of it. If we don’t and finish outside top 4, which we will, then get a better manager and at least try to get back on top.

Something has to drastically change for us to get back on top. I fear that we’ve already dropped too far in terms of both performances and expectations that it could be a long while before we’re anywhere near challenging.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I said mid table at the start of the season. Ole made the squad too threadbare. We were a couple of injuries away from having a crisis and that’s exactly what happened.

You can’t let Herrera, Fellaini, Lukaku and Sanchez leave and only sign a youngster from the Championship as replacement. This was always going to happen. It’s terrible planning by the club once again. Who’s to blame I’m not quite sure but I would expect Ole would have wanted more players in, its Woodward and the Glazers.

 

[Ødegaard]

7th.
Club doesn't belong in top 4.
The patience some of the fans have is amazing, they deserve better.

 

[Jacckk1985]

2 major signings that could offer something within our attacking departments and maybe we could salvage something to fight for a cup and challenge 6. Without them, we could aswell try avoid relegation instead.

 

[pacifictheme]

With ole at the wheel i expect mediocrity.

 

[RedBanker]

Start of season I expected


Despite this I am pleased with the culture at the club. Very strong and very good culture we’re showing. The culture now is much better than it was under Mourinho.
Young academy players shining every week like Perreira and ermmm Lingard? Yeah I can see we’re building something but it will take 3:4 transfer windows before we can challenge for top 4 and not play mediocre football.

Yes the culture is bursting through the seams. The way we play is a superb representation of the United Culture. And totally agree with the young players thing. I mean even look at Shaw. Has he ever performed better for us. Of course Maguire too is looking like a Rolls Royce defender, one who is miles better than VvD. And no manager on this planet could play this team better and have more points than what we have now. That's for sure. And after all we are on top of the culture and heritage league. I also think we will require more than 5 windows and about 15 new players to challenge for top 6. We are exactly where we could be at this stage.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I've switched off from even being emotive when we lose we are being led by at best a mid table coach therefore we manifest mid table results and have an impoverished mid table mentality.

All of the fans backing Solskjaer are an embarrassment to the ambition that is required for the club to move forward. We aren't making progress under Solskjaer we have regressed to a point we are in a state of perpetual inconsistency. To be in a "decline" would offer a complement to our current circumstances. Hypothetically for Barcelona to go from winning titles to finishing in a European spot continually is a decline, we have already surpassed our transition of decline a decade of misfailings confirm this, however inconsistency is an even worse conundrum and the reason as to why relegation is even a concept.

We need a strong leader to coach this team to success, the team cannot manage itself, which I see very often posted on these forums like Ole has absolutely no responsibility to create a system that is sustained and persistent enabling us to win. That's why no individual players will make us a success. We can have Sancho, Maddison, Haaland, Modric and it will make no difference to our performances when we don't have the cohesion necessary to break down defences structured from the direction of the manager.

I'll stick by what I've said all along if we miss out of on top four Ole deserves the door. Why should LVG have been sacked finishing with a domestic cup (with a reasonable record against top 6) and Ole be kept when he offers LESS managerially. This whole situation including the mentality of many fans is ridiculous.

Final paragraph is spot on. Sick and tired of people saying there is progress. Progress would mean results getting better as well as performances. We are getting neither.

Why have we suddenly decided to give one of the biggest jobs in world to someone with no prior experience was beyond stupid. Too many idiots demanding he got the job after the PSG game, the likes of Gary Neville. It was stupid not to evaluate the situation until the summer.

As a club we need to realise what we actually want. Every single manager we have appointed have had very different styles, the transition between each one has been horrendous because of it. Woodward is letting our managers set that situation and I think it should be the other way round. The club for me is stuck in the past wanting to do things the way it worked with Sir Alex i.e the manager has full control of everything. Football has evolved and we simply haven’t.

 

[peridigm]

A difficult stat is that Liverpool have double the points approaching the half way point.

They will probably beat the points total City set just two seasons ago. To add insult to injury, they could totally rewrite the top Premier League WIKI for record points.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

League: Rubbish. Great vs top teams, and mainly rubbish vs the rest which matters more pts wise.

Cups: Good. Seriously need to win EL so we can just maybe tolerate the league run. Win the other cups to ease it a bit.

Squad: Poor. Seriously need reinforcements and serious competitions. Key areas - CM (for depth), CF and GK. Then again, we knew this already. Manager need to up his game.

....

No expectations, tired of hoping.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I'm hoping Pogba can carry us to a Europa League win and we can get Poch in the Summer.

 

[dev1l]

Considered the overall level of this squad and injuries to key players + other behind the scenes issues (eg Pogba saga), I think situation could be even worse.
Ole inherited a mess and there are still issues to be sorted out,namely :
- Get rid of more deadwood eg Jones.
- Sort out Pogba and Sanchez situations
(Pogba s position is worst - club cannot plan properly until his situation is sorted out.)
- Sign 2/3 players ideally during January window as main challengers for 4th place ie Chelsea will be investing in January. While Spurs have already a much better squad than us.
- Another issue is that the club is spending lot of money on players that are constantly on the treatment table - this needs to be addressed too.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

More of the same, some illogically stellar performances that get us dreaming we are on the right path, followed by performances that are as bad as we ever want to see again, I expect no trophies, and I think we'll finish roughly where we are now, but I would like to see Ole given a bit more time now, and a couple of players in January to a least have a chance of proving me completely wrong.

 

[United Hobbit]

I'm still in the sack Ole camp, I like some of what he is trying to do, eg getting the culture better, however he is unfortunately showing his limitations in other areas which are going to be his undoing. It's easy enough to have good intentions however its implementing them that only certain managers are capable of doing or half the people on the Cafe could manage United if it was just a case of having the right ideas.

I think I would have a lot more patience and be willing to allow him more time if say all the top 6 were having a great season and we were "rebuilding" however Chelsea are inconsistent, Tottenham have been bad, Arsenal are awful and while still much better than us City haven't reached the heights they have in previous seasons so we should have seized on their own poor form. It said everything when the pundits on Sky called Sheffield United a "stiffer test" than us!

Also, I greatly enjoyed the City and Tottenham wins however both played right into Ole's main game plan as they were so open. If he had initially struggled to break the small teams and their compact defenses down but we were seeing signs of him getting a plan together to sort them out then again I'd have more patience but we seem to be getting worse at it if anything. You think he would be learning from it and working out new ways of dealing with them. Yes the players arent helping as there are multiple silly mistakes and why can they get so fired up for the "big games" but not the likes of Watford? We don't know if Ole is treating the prep any differently. I said a while ago with Jose and I'd like to see it with Ole where they do a documentary following us behind the scenes for a season like they did with Pep and City for Amazon. Also the fact they can do such good performances is probably more frustrating. Also we have papered over a lot of poor performances by finally turning up eg the recent 4-0 Europa game we were awful the first half but because we won that is brushed under the carpet.

Yes injuries haven't helped but why are we in the position where they have affected us so much? What percentage of the failings in the summer were Ole and what percentage was the likes of Ed Woodward?

The issues above Ole eg lack of DOF and Ed needing to be given only a corporate role continue needing to be addressed

Also Lampard while being inconsistent seems to be doing a better job with Chelsea with less time to get his ideas across.

If we come up across a deep sitting compact defensive team in the cups I have very little hope we will be able to get past them. If we had City over 1 leg I'd be more confident. If we can perhaps get a new manager in place we may be able to salvage one of the cups.

 

[Cloud7]

With Ole still here I expected it to be generally crap with bits of good interspersed here and there, which is pretty much what we've gotten. Can't say I'm too surprised or phased really. The rest of the season is going to continue in the same vein.

 

[Dec9003]

We’re about where we should be.
We’re a wildly inconsistent team full of young players, there’s going to be ups and downs.
We’ve got points against teams you wouldn’t expect us to beat, and dropped them against teams that you would expect us to beat.
We have a promising squad, but I’d be pleasantly surprised if we won a trophy or got champions league football, provided the January window isn’t incredible.

 

[Tango80]

At the start of the season I just wanted a more 'likeable' team and didn't care about result (providing we're not in danger of getting relegated). So i'm relatively OK with how we've done.

There's obvious problems with playing the lesser teams, but with the players we have I don't think it's something that can be sorted tactically, we need a certain type of player capable of breaking these down (only Pogba is really capable atm) and we should see an improvement there.