Midfielders -- Other than the "obvious"

If I am not mistaken, we were linked with Angelo Stiller in the summer.

Anyone have any insights of how his season has been fairing?
 
Gandalf said:
I have watched him a lot for Roma this season and I am certain he would adapt to the PL pretty easily which is not always the case with players coming from another league. He is a nice blend of power and technique and is just about to enter his peak years.
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To me he is the kind of midfielder that you can plug into any style. His willingness to get stuck in while also being a good technician is on paper ideal for United.
 
I think we need two, because we all too often fall apart when Casemiro goes off.

The ideal scenario would be Casemiro signing on for another year to rotate with his replacement and am still holding out for a change of heart from him. He has been brilliant.
 
Nico Barella at Inter will be a great signing, although I doubt he will move on from Inter
 
Maluco said:
I think we need two, because we all too often fall apart when Casemiro goes off.

The ideal scenario would be Casemiro signing on for another year to rotate with his replacement and am still holding out for a change of heart from him. He has been brilliant.
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Under Carrick that no longer applies though, we've seen him subbed against City, Fulham and Spurs and we have actually won those games. In fact in the Fulham game we scored the winning goal when he went off. That's a good sign and shows the benefit of pairing him with an actual centre mid. We are also seeing him play 90 mins as he did against Arsenal, West Ham and Everton. Amorim was reluctant to play him 90 as he was gassed as he essentially playing centre mid on his own.
 
poleglass red said:
Under Carrick that no longer applies though, we've seen him subbed against City, Fulham and Spurs and we have actually won those games. In fact in the Fulham game we scored the winning goal when he went off. That's a good sign and shows the benefit of pairing him with an actual centre mid. We are also seeing him play 90 mins as he did against Arsenal, West Ham and Everton. Amorim was reluctant to play him 90 as he was gassed as he essentially playing centre mid on his own.
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That’s true, but it’s still a real fear that we will be much worse off without him. It’s the most crucial signing of the summer and we need someone robust and with the right attributes for that role.
 
The Thuram kid playing for Juventus. He WILL thrive in the Premier League.
 
Varun1 said:
ah, Palacios ... for a min I thought you were referring to the former Wigan player, Wilson Palacios.

One for "Players you had forgotten existed"...
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We were linked for a long time with Wilson Palacios..bit like Gaitan and Snijder.

Also we are being linked with Morgan Gibbs White
 
Harry190 said:
The Thuram kid playing for Juventus. He WILL thrive in the Premier League.
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I always liked him as he has nice qualities, but he's been average in Serie A and not really developed as expected. Few quotes from the fan forum;

He’s likeable, but a limited player otherwise. A squad player at best for a team vying for trophies. There is a reason he only cost 20m.
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Will never be a worldclass player. He has all the physical qualities and an above average technical ability, but all of this is worthless when you have no football IQ.

He has no idea when to push forward, release the ball quickly or hold possesion. Makes the wrong decision too many times.
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Most over rated player in the squad.

Runs like Bambi and as slow as a sloth.
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the closer he is to our penalty the worse he looks
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That trying to play out of the back is costing us goals.
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Horrendous. He is so inconsistent.
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Can see him struggling with the pace of the PL when he struggles in Serie A.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Your last sentence shows you do not understand. You have reduced football to a purely stats based game, devoid of any context. Why would 2 tackles + interceptions in 90 mins when the opponent has 30% of the ball be 'obviously more impressive' than if you managed the same two when the opponent has 60% possession?
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Your whole post shows you do not understand.

You only have the ability to make a tackle or an interception when the opponent has the ball. You can't make a tackle or an interception when your own team has the ball, can you?!

If the opponent only has the ball for eg 30minutes in a match, that means you only have a 30 minute window where you are acting to make a tackle or interception. If you make 2 in that time you are doing 1 every 15 minutes.

If the opponent has the ball for eg 60 minutes in a match, if you make 2 in that time you have only managed to make 1 every 30 minutes.

The first case is being more effective as a ball-winner than the latter.

tomaldinho1 said:
the adjustment arguably makes it even less accurate because you've added a further layer ontop
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As per above, it is clearly more accurate, because you can't make a tackle when your own team has the ball. Just adding up total numbers assumes you can make a tackle when the opponent has the ball. Just looking at the total, not adjusted, distortedly swings tackles+interceptions stats in favour of players of the worst teams who tend to just park the bus, because their opponents have much more of the ball and they spend more time actually needing to defend.

tomaldinho1 said:
There's no context for tactics, the player's role, the opponent, in this specific case it also puts more value on something like a tackle (often the result of being out of position) vs being in a good position and forcing the opponent to pass the ball.
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Obviously it's not a completely perfect measure, but as far as defensive performance goes it's still a very good one. But also, winning the ball back for your team is still better than forcing your opponent to pass, as in the latter case the opponent still has possession.
 
goldenboy said:
Your whole post shows you do not understand.

You only have the ability to make a tackle or an interception when the opponent has the ball. You can't make a tackle or an interception when your own team has the ball, can you?!

If the opponent only has the ball for eg 30minutes in a match, that means you only have a 30 minute window where you are acting to make a tackle or interception. If you make 2 in that time you are doing 1 every 15 minutes.

If the opponent has the ball for eg 60 minutes in a match, if you make 2 in that time you have only managed to make 1 every 30 minutes.

The first case is being more effective as a ball-winner than the latter.



As per above, it is clearly more accurate, because you can't make a tackle when your own team has the ball. Just adding up total numbers assumes you can make a tackle when the opponent has the ball. Just looking at the total, not adjusted, distortedly swings tackles+interceptions stats in favour of players of the worst teams who tend to just park the bus, because their opponents have much more of the ball and they spend more time actually needing to defend.



Obviously it's not a completely perfect measure, but as far as defensive performance goes it's still a very good one. But also, winning the ball back for your team is still better than forcing your opponent to pass, as in the latter case the opponent still has possession.
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That is incorrect as said. You are deciding that a higher number in that scenario without context is better when there’s absolutely no basis behind it. This is the problem with people brute forcing stats into football when we’re so far off where it needs to be (and why so much money is going into xG which is miles away from we get access to). You don’t understand it (or don’t want to) and it’s fine. Run it through Claude if you want a big breakdown or something but I’m not typing it out for you.
 
For me Lamine camara, has everything you need to be a great pl midfielder, don’t think he will cost outrageous amount aswell, played 2 very good games against psg this season and when Monaco beat them earlier this season he was outstanding in running the centre of pitch against psg which is no small feat
 
pascell said:
Poor source but yesterday, footmercato linked us with Papa Gueye from Villarreal.

Anyone know much about him?

Apparently he had a solid AFCON and we want him to replace Casemiro.
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My Dad's new nickname.
 
Springfield WildCats said:
For me Lamine camara, has everything you need to be a great pl midfielder, don’t think he will cost outrageous amount aswell, played 2 very good games against psg this season and when Monaco beat them earlier this season he was outstanding in running the centre of pitch against psg which is no small feat
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He impresses me whenever i have seen him also.

Complete player.
 
Is Sander Berge obvious or not?

I think he's very good anytime I see him.

Sangare was fantastic against Liverpool too.
 
I'll keep throwing Hayden Hackney's name into the ring on these threads. Uncannily similar type of player to Anderson. Very much what we need. Pretty impeccable in terms of what he does in the Championship, and often named as a player who is made for PL level. A leader. He'd cost £25-30m. He's 23.

Can he step up to CL level? Players do it from that level and from less competitive foreign leagues all the time. Usually there's a mid-table PL club who buy low and sell high, and we all complain that we should just have bought the player directly (see: Brighton's entire transfer history). Why not take a risk and cut out the middle man?
 
Brightonian said:
I'll keep throwing Hayden Hackney's name into the ring on these threads. Uncannily similar type of player to Anderson. Very much what we need.
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And I'll keep throwing out that he was a clear level below Anderson when they played alongside each other for England in the U21 Euros in the summer, despite being older.
 
Brightonian said:
I'll keep throwing Hayden Hackney's name into the ring on these threads. Uncannily similar type of player to Anderson. Very much what we need. Pretty impeccable in terms of what he does in the Championship, and often named as a player who is made for PL level. A leader. He'd cost £25-30m. He's 23.

Can he step up to CL level? Players do it from that level and from less competitive foreign leagues all the time. Usually there's a mid-table PL club who buy low and sell high, and we all complain that we should just have bought the player directly (see: Brighton's entire transfer history). Why not take a risk and cut out the middle man?
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He's not close to as athletic though.
 
I see Hugo Larsson getting heavily linked to both Arsenal and Liverpool. He’s a name that regularly comes up on these forums.
 
ManhattanRed said:
He’s played in 19 laliga and 8 CL games this season. That doesn’t say to me his injury record is terrible.
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It's not awful, but he has a recurring ankle injury. I really like him but Real fans aren't thrilled about him and he won't be cheap, so it's a bit of a risk. Brilliant at his best, though!
 
Ibrahim Maza:



Probably the best midfield talent in the world right now. Motm performances in the ucl against Newcastle and City, will defo get a big move this summer. Press resistant, can play in the 6,8 and 10 and has that Zizou, Pedri, Iniesta swagger about him.
 
Brightonian said:
I'll keep throwing Hayden Hackney's name into the ring on these threads. Uncannily similar type of player to Anderson. Very much what we need. Pretty impeccable in terms of what he does in the Championship, and often named as a player who is made for PL level. A leader. He'd cost £25-30m. He's 23.

Can he step up to CL level? Players do it from that level and from less competitive foreign leagues all the time. Usually there's a mid-table PL club who buy low and sell high, and we all complain that we should just have bought the player directly (see: Brighton's entire transfer history). Why not take a risk and cut out the middle man?
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If Hayden is still bopping around the Championship at the age of 23, something tells me that he's just not that good, even for a mid table team. Regardless of the price. And the last guy who looked great in Championship was Dan James and he was at best average and very limited.

Maybe good enough as cover, but I highly doubt he's good enough to come this summer and do a job the club needs.
 
goldenboy said:
And I'll keep throwing out that he was a clear level below Anderson when they played alongside each other for England in the U21 Euros in the summer, despite being older.
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I'm not arguing that he's currently Anderson's equal. That's why one of them would cost us £100m and the other less than £30m.

But I'd also be wary of reading too much into a single international youth tournament. Harvey Elliot was England's star player in that tournament (and overall POTT), and he can't even get on the pitch this season. And Hackney was mostly playing as a sub.
 
neverdie said:
You can also count on one hand the number of players they sell that don't end up being finished or shit. A bit like Bayern. And how we used to be under Fergie. Always comes with a buyer beware when these feckers are selling players.
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You mean: Robben, Sneijder, Ronaldo, Di Maria, Benzema, Ozil, ødegaard, Van der Vaart, Varane, Casemiro, Makelele etc. Sounds like a big hand!
 
poleglass red said:
Under Carrick that no longer applies though, we've seen him subbed against City, Fulham and Spurs and we have actually won those games. In fact in the Fulham game we scored the winning goal when he went off. That's a good sign and shows the benefit of pairing him with an actual centre mid. We are also seeing him play 90 mins as he did against Arsenal, West Ham and Everton. Amorim was reluctant to play him 90 as he was gassed as he essentially playing centre mid on his own.
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Well in the Fulham game we went from 2-0 to 2-2 within 20 minutes. Then we got the winner
 
I'm sure he's much more obvious to those who focus more on these things but I saw a couple of those every touch comps for Kees Smit.

What a fecking talent he is. Proper class act, I was blown away
 
SungSam7 said:
If Hayden is still bopping around the Championship at the age of 23, something tells me that he's just not that good, even for a mid table team. Regardless of the price. And the last guy who looked great in Championship was Dan James and he was at best average and very limited.

Maybe good enough as cover, but I highly doubt he's good enough to come this summer and do a job the club needs.
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But are you basing this off actually watching him play? If yes, then I'm happy to agree to disagree. I've watched a lot of his full matches and I think he's worth a go, but it's only my opinion.

He's still in the Championship at 23, yes, but has been spoken about as a possible PL player for a couple of years straight now. Lots of PL clubs have been rumoured to be looking at him. West Ham enquired about him in the summer, and Forest had a £20m bid rejected. If Boro aren't promoted themselves this season, I'll be shocked if he isn't signed by a PL club.

Michael Olise was signed from the Championship by Palace
Jude Bellingham was signed from the Championship by Dortmund
Riyadh Mahrez played in the Championship with Leicester

Plus I don't see why it's riskier to sign a player from the Championship than from many smaller foreign leagues which are less competitive. The Championship is often ranked as the tenth most competitive national league in the world. Once you start thinking that way, half the league qualifies, but Caicedo is a good example - probably one of the best two or three DMs in the league right now, signed by Brighton from Ecuador's Serie A.

To be clear, I'm always talking about Hackney as an option for the cheap second CM we sign. Anderson would by far be my first choice signing of those who seem to be available. (Guimaraes if there was any chance of getting him off Newcastle but I guess that's pie in the sky, at least for a justifiable fee for a 28-year-old).
 
I like the look of Kone, but I seem to remember him having a few injury issues. Is that still a worry?

I'm a big fan of the Croatians in serie A in Sucic and Baturina. Baturina may be a bit too attacking as priority. Koopmeiners and Ederson would be good options from that league that wouldn't cost a bomb too.

On the gamble side, Stankovic and Mouzakitis look pretty impressive. As does Kostov from red star.

I'd love a Balkan technician in our midfield, always one of my favourite stereotypes.
 
Nickelodeon said:
I also struggle with the profile we should be targeting. Unsure if we should try to find someone who's great in possession and build up (like a Frenkie De Jong), or more of a energetic ball winner (Kante) or someone in Casemiro mould who can keep things simple with the ball, but provide protection to the back line and be a set piece threat as well.
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I think with martinez and mainoo the build up is fine and de jong would be wasted. I look at ugarte's struggles and think its not just the quality thats lacking and that mainoo or bruno just aren't suited to playing with that kind of player so i'd be wary of a kante. With our current options i'd be looking for a casemiro / matic.
 
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