Mike Dean

[RedRover]

I think Smallings pen could be avoided and I can say with certainty he won't give another pen for wrestling in the box all season. We see it all the time. I think it's harsh to give it when you don't have a full picture. Looking at something from behind? If there's jostling, mostly you see Refs get pro-active and break it up before the corner. I think he did them a favor from his vantage point. The rest was fine but of course it was a big moment for newcastle.

They broke it down afterwards and Howard Webb explained why it was a penalty - specifically that when the ball goes in, Smalling is trying clearly to prevent the forward from getting away to attack it.

You can say it's both of them but one is trying to get away while the other doesn't want to let him. Penalty all day for me - stupid play.

 

[the_box]

Unless I'm forgetting one, this was our first penalty awarded in the league since ... Boxing Day away to your lot in 2014 (Cisse) Thought we were never going to get one again, but I suppose if anyone was going to give one it would be Deano.

Thought he had a below average game all around. Not completely godawful but below the standards of even the Neil Swarbricks and Lee Masons of the league.

 

[Snow]

Odd bump?

Tonight he:

Gave us a penalty he probably shouldn't have
Didn't send off Fellaini (should probably hold that against him though)
Didn't give Newcastle a stonewall penalty

1. It was a clear penalty. Mbemba had his arm stretched out for a while before it hit him and he blocked a shot on goal. I'm surprised he wasn't booked for it.
2. Couldn't watch the last 20 minutes but until then there was nothing to suggest a sending off. Already had a soft yellow for three soft fouls.
3. Lindgard thing? Jaanmat never had possession, he ran into Lingard and their legs got tangled. Neither of them tackled each other or obstructed each other. Play on.

Dean was fine. Could have given United another pen for that floor handball where the defenders scooped the ball but it's typical to not give another pen for handball in a game. He also might not have seen it.

 

[NinjaFletch]

1. It was a clear penalty. Mbemba had his arm stretched out for a while before it hit him and he blocked a shot on goal. I'm surprised he wasn't booked for it.
2. Couldn't watch the last 20 minutes but until then there was nothing to suggest a sending off. Already had a soft yellow for three soft fouls.
3. Lindgard thing? Jaanmat never had possession, he ran into Lingard and their legs got tangled. Neither of them tackled each other or obstructed each other. Play on.

Dean was fine. Could have given United another pen for that floor handball where the defenders scooped the ball but it's typical to not give another pen for handball in a game. He also might not have seen it.

Mate, take off the goggles. I'll give you the first point is debatable but the second two simply aren't.

 

[Ødegaard]

Mate, take off the goggles. I'll give you the first point is debatable but the second two simply aren't.

 

[Snow]

Mate, take off the goggles. I'll give you the first point is debatable but the second two simply aren't.

First point isn't debatable at all. I'm surprised this forum is talking about the Lingard thing being a pen. Seems to me it's just people being negative because they hate everybody and everything.

 

[NinjaFletch]

First point isn't debatable at all. I'm surprised this forum is talking about the Lingard thing being a pen. Seems to me it's just people being negative because they hate everybody and everything.

It's an absolute stone waller. If we hadn't got something like that we'd be calling for sacking.

Even Howard 'agree with the ref's decision at all times' Webb thought he got it wrong.

 

[RedStarUnited]

On the build up to our third goal there was a cynical foul on Martial. He not only let play go on, I think he booked the guy too after the goal had gone in.

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2016/01/12/newcastle-united-vs-manchester-united-highlights/

He had a decent game!

 

[The Purist]

Thought Dean was shocking in favour of United tonight to be honest.

 

[sammsky1]

They broke it down afterwards and Howard Webb explained why it was a penalty - specifically that when the ball goes in, Smalling is trying clearly to prevent the forward from getting away to attack it.

You can say it's both of them but one is trying to get away while the other doesn't want to let him. Penalty all day for me - stupid play.

.

Yep - don't understand the controversy from some United fans at all. Smalling literally mauled him to the floor.

Put another way, we'd be fuming if a similar decision went against us.

 

[surf]

Thought Dean bottled the not giving Smalling a second yellow and a red for the wrestle near the end. Mike (Smalling, not Dean) got away with one there and was stupid to repeat his mistake from the penalty. The penalty/non-penalty decisions were all OK, except maybe the Coloccini armball. With that one you could argue that it was accidental but you could also argue that he had more than enough time to get his arm out of the way. Don't think Dean saw it anyway.

 

[RedRover]

.

Yep - don't understand the controversy from some United fans at all. Smalling literally mauled him to the floor.

Put another way, we'd be fuming if a similar decision went against us.

Yep. Very naive from Smalling. Clearly Mitrovic is a bit of a handful but he got stitched up.

 

[Rado_N]

1. It was a clear penalty. Mbemba had his arm stretched out for a while before it hit him and he blocked a shot on goal. I'm surprised he wasn't booked for it.
2. Couldn't watch the last 20 minutes but until then there was nothing to suggest a sending off. Already had a soft yellow for three soft fouls.
3. Lindgard thing? Jaanmat never had possession, he ran into Lingard and their legs got tangled. Neither of them tackled each other or obstructed each other. Play on.

Dean was fine. Could have given United another pen for that floor handball where the defenders scooped the ball but it's typical to not give another pen for handball in a game. He also might not have seen it.

I think you need to watch that incident again, it was as clear a penalty as you'll ever see!

 

[Snow]

It's an absolute stone waller. If we hadn't got something like that we'd be calling for sacking.

Even Howard 'agree with the ref's decision at all times' Webb thought he got it wrong.

According to Webb we should have gotten 3 pens. When Halsey was in Webb's "role" refs disagreed with him so there's nothing stonewall about it.

 

[Spock]

Dean got the three pk shouts right, but there was another incident where a pk should have been called against Newcastle for a Coloccini for a cagy but clear handball.

No real issues re Lingard. Smalling an easy pk call.

Dean even gave Fellaini extra leash before finally booking him.

No serious complaints can be made by either side.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I already thought Mike Dean was one of the worst referees in our game, but yesterday's performance didn't do him any favours.

Mata was stupid, there's no denying that, but a referee's job in my opinion should be to keep the game flowing without he/she having to interfere too much. I don't recall ever seeing two yellow cards brandished in such quick fashion, to the same player, so early in a game.

Even the first one, surely a word in Mata's ear would have sufficed? You often see other referees pointing to areas of the field where past infractions have occurred, indicating to a player that it's last-chance saloon. That doesn't seem to happen with Dean, he is trigger-happy when it comes to cards and has sent off more players than any other official in the Premier League. He's like an old-school disciplinarian who wants it to be all about him.

It was a really intriguing game for 25 minutes, with United looking composed but West Brom waiting to pounce on the counter. It was shaping-up nicely and I feel sorry for all the away fans, who have paid good money to see a spectacle that was ultimately cut short unnecessarily. Would anybody in the stadium really have complained if Mata had a warning instead of a second yellow?

His overzealous refereeing spoiled another football match. It's not often I agree with Garth Crooks, but it seems he was right about Dean:

 

[montpelier]

Every foul seems to be a yellow card, every two yellows seems to be a red. Fans are as bad, ok when it's the other lot getting a man sent off for this. Not so good when it's us.

And it doesn't work - Dier HAD to be off. And the likelihood is that if Dier goes off then Bellerin goes as well. All starting with a silly handball on the floor, which could easily have been laughed at / ignored.

Have they decided on one of their clampdowns since Flamini didn't get redded at Bornemouth a couple of weeks ago?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I've said this in about 70 different threads, so apologies for constantly repeating myself (actually, I don't apologise... ) but I am absolutely 100% convinced that if Mata hadn't already been booked, then he wouldn't have got a first yellow card for his challenge on Fletcher... and that is based on other similar types of challenges that occurred within the same game that Dean didn't caution.

Dean sent off Mata because he wanted too, not because he had too. I've never seen a referee take as much pleasure from sending someone off then Dean... he probably uses it as wanking material.

 

[2 man midfield]

I can't say Dean got them wrong as such, both were bookable offences by the letter of the law. However you do want your ref to employ some common sense, and I think a quiet word would have sufficed for either one with a booking for whichever came second.

However as I go back to my first point, I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot we'd see it so leniently.

 

[montpelier]

There's a big contradiction in all this. Footy wants everything scrupulously enforced but finishing a match 11 v 11 is what everyone says they would prefer too.

 

[grahamo]

I noticed he was far more lenient with West Brom players. It seems to me that since Fergie retired refs are taking terrible revenge on United. BTW I think Dean should have booked himself for that cynical foul on Rashford while United (for a change) were breaking at pace.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

every two yellows seems to be a red.

Tbf thems the rules.

 

[The Purist]

Didn't see the big deal with the red. Yes, there was only two fouls. Same with Coquelin on Saturday. But two bookable offences equals a red.. That's the rules of football. And bookable offences they were indeed.

 

[SteveJ]

There's a poster on Arsenal Mania who's (ironically) named 'Mike Dean', and has a photo of the ref as his avatar; such is the man's unpopularity.

 

[RedSky]

I've said this in about 70 different threads, so apologies for constantly repeating myself (actually, I don't apologise... ) but I am absolutely 100% convinced that if Mata hadn't already been booked, then he wouldn't have got a first yellow card for his challenge on Fletcher... and that is based on other similar types of challenges that occurred within the same game that Dean didn't caution.

That was the strange thing about Deans performance. Books Mata and then waves away so many similar challenges. Bizarre.

 

[montpelier]

Tbf thems the rules.

It's a stupid rule, . Except when it isn't, obvs.

 

[SteveJ]

Far too many refs, at every level of the sport, try to keep home fans sweet; it's not an anti-United thing.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Didn't see the big deal with the red. Yes, there was only two fouls. Same with Coquelin on Saturday. But two bookable offences equals a red.. That's the rules of football. And bookable offences they were indeed.

Coq's were both bookings, but why wasn't the bloke who pulled Giroud's(?) shirt given a second booking and subsequentially sent off? If the referee has set a precedent of giving a second yellow for a cautionable offence, he needs to remain consistent.

Similarly with Dean yesterday. Before the Mata incident, Daley Blind misjudged kicking a ball and kicked somoene in the face, puling out at the last second so not much damage was done... yet he was not yellow carded. Mata misjudged kicking the ball and kicked someone in the leg, pulling out at the last second so not much damage was done... yet he's booked and sent off. By his own refereeing logic, the deicision didn't make sense.

 

[stevoc]

He's a fecking scouser so I'm not surprised.

Yes according to the letter of the law both were bookings. But if refs strictly enforced the rules like that in every situation then every game would end in one or both teams being men down.

It was early in the game he could have just gave mata a warning for the second and no one would have batted an eyelid.

But then not as many would have been discussing Mike Dean today though.

 

[Ødegaard]

Mata deserved to be sent off.

 

[grahamo]

When the Referee is the biggest talking point in a football match He's had a bad game. Referees need to be more consistent. If he showed the same amount of consistency throughout yesterdays game there wouldn't be a thread here. Garth Crooks is right Mike Dean is petulent

 

[jem]

I already thought Mike Dean was one of the worst referees in our game, but yesterday's performance didn't do him any favours.

Mata was stupid, there's no denying that, but a referee's job in my opinion should be to keep the game flowing without he/she having to interfere too much. I don't recall ever seeing two yellow cards brandished in such quick fashion, to the same player, so early in a game.

Even the first one, surely a word in Mata's ear would have sufficed? You often see other referees pointing to areas of the field where past infractions have occurred, indicating to a player that it's last-chance saloon. That doesn't seem to happen with Dean, he is trigger-happy when it comes to cards and has sent off more players than any other official in the Premier League. He's like an old-school disciplinarian who wants it to be all about him.

It was a really intriguing game for 25 minutes, with United looking composed but West Brom waiting to pounce on the counter. It was shaping-up nicely and I feel sorry for all the away fans, who have paid good money to see a spectacle that was ultimately cut short unnecessarily. Would anybody in the stadium really have complained if Mata had a warning instead of a second yellow?

His overzealous refereeing spoiled another football match. It's not often I agree with Garth Crooks, but it seems he was right about Dean:

Spot on. The first yellow was all on Mata; a word may have sufficed, but clearly it was a stupid, needless thing to do, and I really had no complaints with the yellow. The second, however, was clearly a case where, as the pundit said, nobody was screaming for a yellow, and there was nothing malicious in the tackle; just clumsiness.

As Crooks said, everybody wants to see a game played at full strength, and only the most obvious offences (stamping, preventing a clear goal-scoring opportunity, violent conduct, etc.) should change that. I don't think even the most ardent West Brom fans would have complained too rigorously about Dean having a stern word with Mata after that foul. But Dean instead chose to make a mountain out of a relative molehill and change the scope of the game.

It was still pathetic that we showed no fight after going down to 10 men.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I think the best referees are the ones you don't notice.

Dean is so dramatic and exuberant on the pitch, he tries to be man of the match every game.

 

[The Purley King]

Mata deserved two yellows, don't see how anyone can argue with that. A yellow card should be given for a 'careless or reckless' tackle. Despite the fact he tried to stop himself, it was certainly a yellow and had it been the other way around we'd have all been screaming for a booking.
Agree completely that there is lots of inconsistency, but on this occasion Dean got it right.

 

[UweBein]

Mata deserved to be sent off.

Yes.... the way he started that challenge, he didn't leave Dean any choice.
Yes.... he pulled out of it, but in full motion it looked like he had a proper go.

You're right of course when you say that someone like Atkinson wouldn't have given a second yellow. That's though because Atkinson doesn't like to give red cards.

 

[SteveJ]

I think the best referees are the ones you don't notice.

Dean is so dramatic and exuberant on the pitch, he tries to be man of the match every game.

Referees should not be considered as stars. Sure, applaud them for their occasional excellence, but that should be it. Just because Collina is strikingly bald and has been, ridiculously, on the cover of a Pro Evo game, it shouldn't mean that he's an icon (as F365 would have us believe).

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Mata deserved two yellows, don't see how anyone can argue with that. A yellow card should be given for a 'careless or reckless' tackle. Despite the fact he tried to stop himself, it was certainly a yellow and had it been the other way around we'd have all been screaming for a booking.
Agree completely that there is lots of inconsistency, but on this occasion Dean got it right.

Then why didn't Dean book Daley Blind? That's the bit I can't get my head around, and why I think he wouldn't have booked him had he not already been on a yellow.

 

[montpelier]

I don't think blocking a free kick should be half a red card.

 

[UweBein]

Then why didn't Dean book Daley Blind? That's the bit I can't get my head around, and why I think he wouldn't have booked him had he not already been on a yellow.

No referee will be 100% consistent even for 90 minutes.
It also depends on how he saw the situation, what kind of perspective did he had, was his view obstracted, was he possibly distracted by something else going on.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

No referee will be 100% consistent even for 90 minutes.
It also depends on how he saw the situation, what kind of perspective did he had, was his view obstracted, was he possibly distracted by something else going on.

He was right next to both challenges... and they occured within 10 minutes of each other. He clearly see's Daley Blind misjudge kicking the ball and kick Berainho in the head (he saw this well enough to see that it was outside the box), and he clearly see's Mata misjudge kicking the ball and kick Fletcher...

You could maybe say that he holted a WBA attack (though that would be a stretch) but later on in the game Craig Gardner slid in and wiped out Lingard as he was about to put a cross into the box... and he didn't get booked either, so that reasoning doesn't really fly either.

I agree that no ref will be consistent - but I'd say thats a problem, not something football should just accept.