They've spent so much money. The lacking squad depth excuse doesn't cut it.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Graham Taylor
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In the latest edition of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) chats to author, Dan Williamson, about his new book 'If I Hadnt Seen Such Riches' which chronicles our 1990/91 European Cup Winners Cup victory, which is a trip down memory lane for those old enough to remember it and a vital history lesson for those who don't.
yeah?
I'm not defending Arteta or condoning the lack of squad depth. I was replying to a post on how the players should feel like they need to prove their place in the semi final by their performance against Bournemouth.
Let's be real every single Arsenal player that played today knows they are starting against PSG regardless of their performance.
I think slowly nudging towards a sack watch if he finishes below City and Newcastle?
Maybe not this season but if they get him a really good CF and some squad depth next season and he still fails to win anything then he's surely out.
Maybe not this season but if they get him a really good CF and some squad depth next season and he still fails to win anything then he's surely out.
I think he's taken them as far as he can, he's done well but ultimately, just not good enough to win the top honours. A bit like Southgate for England.
Time for a change next season.
Time for a change next season.
I do think he should have competed more for the title this season and at least taken Liverpool to the limit like they did last season.
But, he is the manager that has taken them to this level and they’re building a good team. They proper need depth up front and a 20 goal striker now. I wouldn’t rule out them competing for the title next season. Talk of the sack is a little bit silly at the moment.
But, he is the manager that has taken them to this level and they’re building a good team. They proper need depth up front and a 20 goal striker now. I wouldn’t rule out them competing for the title next season. Talk of the sack is a little bit silly at the moment.
If they spend well and get a top striker they can still win it next season. They need to start strong and build momentum, they’ve been out of this title race for months.
Don’t get through against psg = more than 50%
Lose against city away and Newcastle home = possible although would think they’d get some sort of a result at home.
That last game at Southampton might be the difference between making CL next year or not.
Crazy how crucial the next few games will be
Lose against city away and Newcastle home = possible although would think they’d get some sort of a result at home.
That last game at Southampton might be the difference between making CL next year or not.
Crazy how crucial the next few games will be
Finishing trophyless and third in a two horse race would be just like him. Encapsulates everything about him and Arsenal.
Agree.
Slot has come in, spent virtually no money and overtaken him in one season. I'm sure Arsenal fans will blame injuries, but that's partly down to the manager and him running them in to the ground. Last season they barely had any injuries and they didn't win anything anyway.
He's just not an elite manager.
Eddie Howe has done a better job at Newcastle in a shorter space of time too.
They really can't, they will be looking at 3rd place most likely.
We've been poor in the league for months. Is it a subconscious lack of motivation for being out the title race a long time ago but thinking 2nd was secured for a while, is it lack of being able to rotate quality forward options, is it just a temporary loss of form, or is it something more permanent?
I don't think we'll get the answers to any of those questions until next season. One thing is for certain, we need a big summer, as we need another jolt to kick us on, otherwise you run the risk of this fizzling out when there's not even been the bang yet. Berta needs to make a big impression.
One thing everyone agrees in, is that we simply need more fire power.
21 points we've lost from winning positions this season. So many times we take the lead, can't get the 2nd or 3rd needed to kill the game off, then lose a goal with the oppositions first or 2nd shot on target.
48% of our goals conceded have come from set pieces. Not sure how that breaks down in terms of since Gabriel has been injured or what but that's something that clearly needs looked at and worked on.
I don't think we'll get the answers to any of those questions until next season. One thing is for certain, we need a big summer, as we need another jolt to kick us on, otherwise you run the risk of this fizzling out when there's not even been the bang yet. Berta needs to make a big impression.
One thing everyone agrees in, is that we simply need more fire power.
21 points we've lost from winning positions this season. So many times we take the lead, can't get the 2nd or 3rd needed to kill the game off, then lose a goal with the oppositions first or 2nd shot on target.
48% of our goals conceded have come from set pieces. Not sure how that breaks down in terms of since Gabriel has been injured or what but that's something that clearly needs looked at and worked on.
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The problem is for all the posturing that you always get from a percentage of the Arsenal fan base whenever they win a few games in a row, the last few years don't actually amount to anything more than Pochettino at Spurs. With the only tangible difference being that Spurs were mostly a better team to watch.
It's always excuses when the results falter as well. Never "we have to get better"...even after yesterday, they are going to carry the "rage" of losing at home to Bournemouth into a game away to PSG? What rage? What's he even on about at this point?
The way they play this season has really started to mirror Arteta's attitude as well. At times they're more focused on playing the ref than the opposition. Like they think they are owed favours. Instead it's resulted in things like Declan Rice getting himself hilariously sent off.
If they don't stage a mini miracle and win the CL (it's not out of the question but it goes against the character of Arteta's team so I can't see it), then in all likelihood they're looking at another trophy less season with a Spurs Vs United European final and the inevitable "who had the better season" debate to look forward to. The same fans who give it large when they win will be right at Arteta's throat if that scenario comes to pass. Even though it's only their weird fecking behaviour and misplaced expectations that makes it such an issue in the first place.
It's always excuses when the results falter as well. Never "we have to get better"...even after yesterday, they are going to carry the "rage" of losing at home to Bournemouth into a game away to PSG? What rage? What's he even on about at this point?
The way they play this season has really started to mirror Arteta's attitude as well. At times they're more focused on playing the ref than the opposition. Like they think they are owed favours. Instead it's resulted in things like Declan Rice getting himself hilariously sent off.
If they don't stage a mini miracle and win the CL (it's not out of the question but it goes against the character of Arteta's team so I can't see it), then in all likelihood they're looking at another trophy less season with a Spurs Vs United European final and the inevitable "who had the better season" debate to look forward to. The same fans who give it large when they win will be right at Arteta's throat if that scenario comes to pass. Even though it's only their weird fecking behaviour and misplaced expectations that makes it such an issue in the first place.
That's mad that nearly half of arsenal's goals conceded have come from set pieces!
Does the camera pan to the set piece coach every time that happens, or does he only get the credit when Arsenal score a set piece?!
Good point.
Is the FA cup Arteta won not a tangible difference?
For what it's worth, I don't think it makes a massive difference. It's just funny that I saw a lot of posts on here about how Arteta needs to respect the domestic cup competitions to win a trophy, but everyone seems to forget he actually has won an FA cup. Probably because it's quite meaningless these days
He mentioned the last few years, I assume he means Arsenal since that cup win
nah and shearer isn’t wanking himself silly in the commentary box over it either, funnily enough
But that's not a very good point then.
"There's no tangible difference between Arteta's time at Arsenal in this specific period where we exclude the trophy he won and Poch's time at Spurs" doesn't quite have the same ring to it I guess.
I think you're just shoehorning random points to fit the narrative that is in your head. Your comparison to Poch's Spurs side has already been adressed so i won't bother.
- "Never "we have to get better" " ? The thing he said every single time we had a bad result ? Nah let's focus on yesterday's soundbite.
- Rice getting sent off in September in a way that was never replicated is proof of Arteta's attitude ? In a period where the referees have never been so bad and every team is complaining (United near the top spot on that, rightly or wrongly), this notion of "Arsenal are playing the ref" is just weird.
Back in August i predicted us to finish third and at least equal our CL QF because teams will figure you out and you can't have 3 season in a row with no injuries.
To still see "He has spent so much and still haven't won the league" is laughable. Our squad depth is not good enough up front changing the GK, buying cover at LB and 100M on Rice were excellent decisions even if they don't mean winning a trophy now. They messed up on getting somebody to cover up front but there was a reasoning behind it (Tel not good enough, rumours of Osimhen not being a great fit attitude-wise, Watkins too pricey for an average 29y old etc...)
In a world where Liverpool relies on 4/5 World Class players, Chelsea acting like a 15y old cheating on FM, City spending 200M in January and United perpetuating their wasteful tradition, it's Arsenal who are wrong in the way that they allocate their budget
I also read in here that Eddie Howe has done a better job than Arteta. Just wow. Hacking people down with 7 ft trolls while Isak bangs them in. Brilliant work.You're right that there will definitely be another dozens of pages about "Who had the best season" if that scenario pans out but just like the one before, it will be the same story for me.
I'd rather challenge for the league and CL and not win than be humiliated for 8 months and resort to once in a lifetime comeback against Ligue 1 clubs to qualify for Europe.
Granted i might not feel this way indefinitely but the foundations are a lot healthier and sacking Arteta doesn't even begin to enter my mind.
You can quote as many d*ckheads on twitter as you like, the truth is the absolute vast majority of fans and players are supportive of Arteta.
Those "misplaced expectations" you're talking about are mostly coming from opposition fans but you won't accept that and burry your head in the sand convinced that all Arsenal fans, those weirdos, expect to win the league and the CL because Rice scored 2 free-kicks.
Yeah, I'm having a hard time seeing them winning the league next year. Liverpool will be up there defending the title, and you'd expect City to step back up as well.
Crazy to think they will probably finish the season behind City yet again.
If I were an Arsenal fan, I’d want him to feck off in the summer if they end this season trophyless.
This was their year and they didn't even challenge. Next year will be the same if not worse. When will it be time to go blud?
Sorry meant to reply to this the other day then I got distracting by a video of a cyclist falling into a canal.
I'm talking about during your "good" spell. I think you were mid table when you won the FA cup...and it was during covid in an empty stadium, which is why no one remembers it.
3 years winning nothing with a team that's good enough to compete in every competition is time to start asking questions imo. The "who had the better season" jibes last year were just that. I don't think anyone seriously thought United were in a better place than Arsenal because of an FA cup win...but if you won nothing this year and United (or, god forbid, Spurs) won the Europa League, then it starts to become questionable. You aren't a stronger team than last season for me, and still aren't winning anything, where as United/Spurs could win a trophy and end up in the CL with you, rendering those 3 years of finishing 2nd even more meaningless.
I also think after 3 years is when it starts to become very difficult to get the players to buy into it and start again when there has been nothing to show for it.
Obviously its not easy with City inthe picture but this season was a real opportunity, and you've not even been close, and have slumped out of the cups again.
I wouldn't rule out a win tonight which obviously then could change things completely, but I would stick by that it would seem completely out of character.
When is it gonna end Robbie
The latest is that they'll sign a striker this summer, and next year they'll defo win the league.
He sure does say some weird shit every now and then. Last time we forgot to mention the Community Shields, now this.
I just can't possibly imagine liking him. He is an absolute tit.
But if you're comparing Arteta's time at Arsenal to Poch's time at Spurs it doesn't make sense to only focus on the good spell, when he won a trophy with a shit team. Especially if you're going to claim there's no tangible difference.
I think you're looking at this with hindsight. Last summer is the first time I would say most rival fans actually thought we had a team good enough to compete in every competition.
Look at the predictions before the 23/24 season
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/predict-the-top-6-2023-24-edition.478409/
Sure you had some fans thinking we'd challenge but you had just as many thinking we'd finish 3rd or even outside the top 4. It's a bit disingenuous to now pretend our team has always been good enough to compete in all competitions for the last 3 years.
I think this is a really interesting way of viewing football. If you genuinely think Spurs/United finishing 15th and qualifying for the CL renders our second place finishes meaningless why do you even watch football? If the end result is all that matters why not just miss the entire season and then look at who finishes where on the last day?
I think you forget it's easy for us to browse the United focussed threads on here to see how little United fans have enjoyed this season. I also remember how I felt about football when we went through our shit period and it's a night and day difference when I compare that to the last few years. If you think that's all meaningless and essentially the same because we haven't won a trophy then I don't know what to say.
I don't disagree with this. We've definitely regressed this season but I don't think you can say just yet whether it's something to be concerned about or if it was a just a freakishly poor season.
Next season is very important for Arteta imo. If he doesn't win anything major I don't think will with us
It was also with a team that absolutely wasn't his, and carried by players he swiftly got rid of. He absolutely won that FA Cup of course and it's on his resume as a manager, but it's also not particularly relevant to evaluate him. If that's the only trophy he has when he ends his managerial career, it'll look particularly shit.
He's such a weirdo.
It's probably just as well that trophy isn't used to really evaluate him then. Would mean very little if we were still 8th or there abouts like you allude to.
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They are lucky there are only three games left in the league. They'd finish in 5th if there were an additional three games to play.
Complete psycho. He needs to be stopped.
Well it depends if you count a lockdown FA Cup win with a team he largely inherited rather than it being his own as tangible. I don't think its a particularly tangible difference. No one in recent history has inherited a Tottenham team already capable of winning a cup.
Its not pretending though. It has been good enough for 3 years. Arguably it hasn't had the experience in the Champions League/big European games, but ability and performance level wise the team has been good enough. It's a credit to Arteta to get it to that stage but there's only so long being a nearly team remains an achievement, and more often than not only so long you remain a nearly team one way or the other.
I am not going to address the predictions on here given people actually genuinely thought United had a better season than Arsenal last year.
I don't think its particularly controversial at this point tbh. Finishing 2nd and having a strong base to go into the following season with vs winning an FA cup. Sure, that's a silly comparison.
Finishing 2nd again the following season (for the third time in a row) without really pushing on, while other teams win trophies...at that point it does start to look a bit meaningless.
The whole point of every cup and league in football is to try and win it. No one cares if you finish second, unless it is to build to winning something further down the line. This time last year it was still pretty easy to make that argument for Arsenal. This year (barring a CL win), its not such an easy argument to make. And then all you really have to cling to is the "we are better to watch" argument, which is subjective, and subjectively I think you are one of the worst teams in the league to watch anyway.
If Arteta wins nothing again, and other teams are winning leagues, and even relatively crap teams like United or Spurs are winnng trophies, its naive to think a significant section of your fanbase aren't going to be at his throat. Whatever the expectations when he took over, he has risen them to fans justifiably expecting trophies/success. That can be a double edged sword if he then doesn't win a trophy. Hence the comparison with Poch.
I think the problem you have is there's only so many years you can motivate a set of players to keep going again when they are not getting the reward at the end.
I wouldn't even call it a freakishly poor season. I think you've just not been quite as good in the league. I think his big challenge next season will be that if it doesn't start well the fans will turn on him very quickly, and possibly the players will give up on his ideals pretty quickly as well.
Here's where I don't think its quite the same as with Poch though, as in the season he reached the CL final with Spurs, I thought the perfomances outside of the CL had already gone completely shite. So the signs of it going to pieces were already there. Where as with Arsenal I think the performances have just been a bit of a crap watch, but still mostly quite solid, and the drop off more recently has been more to do with knowing there's nothing to play for and the CL being a distraction. So IF he started the next season strongly it'd buy him some stock back, but he would definitely be under big pressure.
Spurs fans (due to being Spurs fans) were happy to hail Poch as some kind of a success for just nearly winning the CL, so they weren't immediately calling for his head the next season. I doubt Arteta will get that luxury. Definitely not from all Arsenal fans anyway.
It's strange on the day we are heading into a 2nd leg of a Champions League semi final we are talking this way, however i do get some of your points.
The domestic season has been disappointing, it's the first year where we've seen a bit of regression, so pressure will be under the club as a whole to address that. That will start with the transfer window making sure we are better tooled up for the following season, then it will be on Mikel to get performances and results back up to proper challenging levels. I think you are right, if there isn't that improvement then the pressure will come from the fans.
I'm not one to demand he must win a league or a champions league next season or be sacked, as a lot will depend on the context behind it. For instance, there's a big difference from 2nd place finish of last season, to the potential 2nd place finish of this season, but there's no doubt he will be under pressure improve on this seasons outings domestically.
Only thing i will say, is that if any Arsenal fans are using the fact that Spurs or Utd will win the Europa League as a reason to be up in arms, they should probably re-evaluate how they look at football.
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What a moron. Why even mention it, he's won feck all. Just focus on the game today and concentrate on that. Hope PSG batter them.
On one hand I can't wait for him to bugger off to Spain.
On the other, I enjoy Arsenal doing Arsenal things.
On the other, I enjoy Arsenal doing Arsenal things.
He definitely suits arsenal.