Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[Oranges038]

Again I never said to sack him. I don't think he should be anywhere near sacking right now but eventually you have to win the big one or else you have to wonder if he is just a nearly manager who can't help the side to cross the line.

Put this way if next season you guys again finish 2nd or 3rd with 80 to 85 points and get knocked out in qf without any other trophies and then the season after that same story. What then.That's why I ask what's the end goal here. Can't keep on treating yourself as underdog if you are to be looked as a big club and yes arsenal for me are a big club so their standards would be judged accordingly.

Well if klopp didn't win the cl and pl his legacy at Liverpool would have been looked as an underwhelming stint. The fact he won those big trophies helped him and not helped poch. Imagine if poch had won the cl, he would have been looked differently. Trophies matters and that's the whole point of my original post.

They're going to have a much better chance at the league next year, provided they strengthen in the right areas in the summer.

City need a refresh, wouldn't surprise me if Pep walks at the end of the season.
Klopp will be gone, Liverpool will drop off.
Utd will still be a mess.
Villa will drop off.
Spurs will be Spurs.
Chelsea are being managed by Poch.

If they don't win it next year, then I'd say it would be valid to look for someone who can take them to that next step.

 

[the_cliff]

They're going to have a much better chance at the league next year, provided they strengthen in the right areas in the summer.

City need a refresh, wouldn't surprise me if Pep walks at the end of the season.
Klopp will be gone, Liverpool will drop off.
Utd will still be a mess.
Villa will drop off.
Spurs will be Spurs.
Chelsea are being managed by Poch.

If they don't win it next year, then I'd say it would be valid to look for someone who can take them to that next step.

They were saying that the end of last season.

 

[GoonerBear]

They were saying that the end of last season.

While others were saying last seasons title challenge was a 1 off.

One seems a bit more correct than the other.

 

[adexkola]

£706m spent in 5 years for 0 trophies and they have less points than last season after spending £220m+ in the summer.
But but but they've taken City close the last 2 seasons.
Any big club and he'd be under immense pressure.

Why?

It looks like he is at a club that has common sense and can see progression. If that doesn't make them a "big club" I doubt they'll sleep over it. Especially when they're going up against a very good City.

 

[the_cliff]

While others were saying last seasons title challenge was a 1 off.

One seems a bit more correct than the other.

I actually agree in giving Arteta another chance, I don't see the need for a new manager provided you continue your average level of performance. My point was there needs to be a cut off point.

There's a certain point in time where the same results become a pattern and no longer coincidence or due to external factors (Pep, inexperience, Squad Depth, injuries, etc...).

 

[GoonerBear]

I actually agree in giving Arteta another chance, I don't see the need for a new manager provided you continue your average level of performance. My point was there needs to be a cut off point.

There's a certain point in time where the same results become a pattern and no longer coincidence or due to external factors (Pep, inexperience, Squad Depth, injuries, etc...).

Fair point, but it's hard to put a time scale on it, as each season is different, and each will have it's own context. Everyone will have a different opinion when that point is reached as well. Some might even have it now.

 

[Oranges038]

They were saying that the end of last season.

Aye and they went and bought Havertz......

 

[the_cliff]

Fair point, but it's hard to put a time scale on it, as each season is different, and each will have it's own context. Everyone will have a different opinion when that point is reached as well. Some might even have it now.

Of course and here's my problem. For some reason the majority of Arsenal fans are the only fans of any top club that think a team needs to have 100% of the squad available at 100% fitness at all times to win a major competition. I'm sorry but in the real world this is simply not the case. Every single team goes through shit on their way to a trophy. If the expectation is that's what you need to win you'll never win. Arsenal, despite the hate you get from the majority of fans in the country (mainly due to the youtube gang) have been the best team domestically in the last 2 seasons overall, not just in terms of style of play but the domination of games. To come out of that with no tophies to show for it is a worry and should be a worry for your fanbase. Of course if you win the league this season this is a moot point but the way it's going...

I'm not knocking Arteta I think he's done a terrific job for you lot but again my point was there has to be a cut off point eventually. Arsenal are in a unique situation where you're literally within touching distance of a major trophy but have a manager that is still under pressure with many questions hanging over his head and the longer you go on without winning a major trophy the more the questions will be asked and rightly so, especially when you take into consideration your overall average performances over the course of the last 2 seasons.

 

[AshRK]

Fair point, but it's hard to put a time scale on it, as each season is different, and each will have it's own context. Everyone will have a different opinion when that point is reached as well. Some might even have it now.

But eventually for the amount of backing he has to win the big one. Cannot always sit behind progression talks. If the next season also ends trophyless then more questions will be asked

 

[100]

I’ve an irrational dislike of the cnut but he’s doing / done a good job. I think next year, especially if they get someone decent in the summer, is when questions can be asked of not winning anything.

They’re still a team of 7s and 8s, lacking a 9 or a 10 to take them to the next level. Whether someone like Martinelli/Odegaard/Saka can become that remains to be seen.

A threat to them will be contracts - they’ve hit an ideal spot where the squad is made up of players who are just stepping up to that next level, who are young / didn’t have a strong negotiating position for their last contract.

Now all approaching a decent level where they all have a case for demanding significant increases, especially when you look at somebody like Havertz reported deal.

They’re likely in a much better position compared with the “paying off the emirates” days but holding on to players is where they’ve fallen apart in the past.

 

[criticalanalysis]

You have to give credit to Arteta and Arsenal for what they've achieved.

The 'next step' I would imagine is to maintain Arsenal's (current) status quo as a top 3 club and from a coaching perspective, get this team and the players to play better than the sum of its parts, which I don't think Arteta is quite doing atm. Whether that's through player or coaching inexperience, I feel there's another gear and step that hasn't been achieved that will be really hard to do.

 

[roonster09]

Football is eventually about winning if you are to be considered as a top club, otherwise what's the point. Yes, they are controlling games, yes they are playing some good football. No one is denying that and neither was my post to dismiss that.

My question was , what is the end goal here. Are you saying arsenal fans will be content with just finishing 2nd or 3rd for next 2 seasons and winning no major trophies. He has been backed both from time perspective and financial perspective so end rewards should be eventually expected if you are to be treated like a top tier manager or top tier club

Ofcourse end goal is to win titles and they are on track to do that. They are a work in progress, they are improving every year and the end up goal is to win title. To do that, they need strong foundation which has everything to do with ability to control games and smash the team, Arsenal have all that.

He didn't take over club that was fighting for titles, he took over a club that was Europa league standard, completely rebuilt the team with young players. It takes time.

 

[Donaldo]

Mikel isn't getting sacked anytime soon. There definitely seems a vital piece missing for us to really challenge for the top honours but he'll get another go at getting it right.