Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

AllGoodNamesRGone

New Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2021
Messages
844
Supports
Arsenal
The madness in this thread, Arsenal winning the title? Might as well have them Champions League favorites this year when they couldnt even bloody make Europa. They have just as good a shot winning it as the PL, nonexistent.
Has anyone said that? MO is a bit deluded but the rest of us are saying we would be happy to get 6th and see some progression in our playing style.
Can’t recall anyone saying Arsenal for the title. Sounds like hyperbole on your part but if you can quote anyone who did say that then please do so we can all laugh at their deluded expense.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,097
Location
Canada

So much for culture change that he is begging xhaka to stay.
 

Bleu

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 27, 2021
Messages
174
Supports
New England Revolution
Not sure if I can quote yet… but @Che Guevara is definitely on the same page as MO.
 

GoonerBear

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
3,002
Supports
Arsenal
I would love to see Lokonga after what i have seen in preseason from him, but we know Mini-Pep, that he will start his lover Elneny.
Yeah, looked quite good pre season. Agree with you though, he'll go with what he sees as the safe route & play Elneny. :houllier:
 

AllGoodNamesRGone

New Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2021
Messages
844
Supports
Arsenal
Not sure if I can quote yet… but @Che Guevara is definitely on the same page as MO.
Ah yes. Just saw the dark horse comment. :lol:
We won’t be in for top four let alone a dark horse title challenge. 5th or 6th will be good for us. Most importantly is a clear direction in a style of play.
If we earn 5th or 6th then great but if we are inconsistent and manage either of positions by virtue of the other teams being poor then that is still not good enough and we should look to bring in a manager who can define a style of play.
I’m not overly optimistic for this coming season but hope we can achieve our minimum goals.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
17,187
Supports
Chelsea
Shame about Partey tbh. He seems to have rotten luck with injuries.
 

tjb

Full Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
3,309
It means you won more games and performed better overall. Spurs may not have won anything, but people are deceiving themselves if they think their fans haven't enjoyed the last 6 years. United would be enjoying this Ole period way more if weren't United, but alas we are the biggest team in England, probably the world too( even though it is debatable), so expectations, despite rebuilding, are much higher.
 

Ole's screen

Full Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
926
Location
Right next to Ole’s seat
Supports
KC Chiefs
Because a better league season is a better measure of progress than a cup run, which lots of small teams do now and again. If we were say Spurs or Leicester I'd be ecstatic with a EL or FA cup win, but for United an EL win is virtually meaningless in the history of the club. What we need is to show continuous progress to one day winning the league - if we win a few cups along the way then great. But league performances are always the bread and butter or we're just a cup team.

It's the same reason why LvG got the sack for 5th and FA cup. The only reason Jose survived was because it was his first season and the EL win got us a backdoor CL spot (which was a new thing IIRC). If not for that he'd have been sacked too.
 

GoonerBear

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
3,002
Supports
Arsenal
Didn't he have it when they bought him?
No, he got the Arsenal curse quite early after barely being injured for years at Atlético.

Didn't get to watch the game but apparently a lot of the same failings including difficulty playing out from the back. White & Gabriel will help with that but while we have a weak link at right back, & players like Elneny get significant game time, nothing much will change.
 

MO_Football92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
354
Supports
Arsenal
Minor trophies are not that big of a deal though. United have CL football and are far closer to challenging for the PL title than Arsenal.

United have also won the same amount of trophies as Arsenal in the least 5 seasons. You are only saying 4 seasons instead of 5 because it fits the agenda of your argument.

United's squad player for player is miles ahead of Arsenal as well.
Thats your opinion. Obviously the CL and EPL are the big trophies but I can't dismiss the F.A cup. The likes of Wenger, Guardiola and Klopp have also taken the community shield seriously too.

I have no agenda. I'm only responding to the poster talking about a very big difference. Obviously there has been in the last couple seasons but not by a great margin all things considered.
Why stop at 4 years when under Jose we did as much in Europe as your club has in its entire existence. . .
Doesnt matter if I stop at 2, 3 or 4 years my point is both clubs have been poor lately. I wasn't solely digging out United. Thats not true as Arsenal have won two European cups.
 

MO_Football92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
354
Supports
Arsenal
Minor trophies are not that big of a deal though. United have CL football and are far closer to challenging for the PL title than Arsenal.

United have also won the same amount of trophies as Arsenal in the least 5 seasons. You are only saying 4 seasons instead of 5 because it fits the agenda of your argument.

United's squad player for player is miles ahead of Arsenal as well.

Well thats a matter of opinion. Personally, I've never gotten excited about the league cup but have always respected the FA Cup. Of course United are closer than Arsenal but still quite far City, Liverpool etc.

I had no agenda it doesnt matter if I say 4, 5 or six seasons; both clubs have been rea
As above I’m in no way in agreement with that guy but this ‘minor trophy’ comment has triggered me.

We should be collecting everything in sight when & where possible imo.

As has previously been mentioned, you stop at 4 years isn’t particularly fair portrayal, so I extrapolated it one year further & it obliterates your clubs European existence, which is about as relevant as the argument you tried to make.

I’d agree both sides have struggled to meet expectations but you do make the same mistake most of my Arsenal mates do which is act as if the club are comparable to begin with, the European comment is, just the facts as you like to say.

Arsenal are a storied team with a good history btw, but the fact you’ve signed up to a United forum to laud 2 FA Cup wins whilst Lego Pep has led you to successive 8th place finishes is peak Arsenal fandom.
Its irrelevant whether you look back 4, 5 or 6 seasons; both clubs haven't reached the expectations. What was my initial arguement? Also continental pedigree doesn't solely stem from winning.

I don't know what other Arsenal fans say. There's three giant clubs in this country and in recent years only one of those clubs, Liverpool, have met the levels expected.

Obviously you've not read my posts properly or struggle comprehending. The point I made was that both teams have struggled lately. I've not praised our Fa cup wins and have continually criticised Arteta. If anything I expect United to go on progressing as a top four side and Arsenal to struggle due to the managerial issues hindering us.
 

The holy trinity 68

The disparager
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
5,790
Location
Manchester
Well thats a matter of opinion. Personally, I've never gotten excited about the league cup but have always respected the FA Cup. Of course United are closer than Arsenal but still quite far City, Liverpool etc.

I had no agenda it doesnt matter if I say 4, 5 or six seasons; both clubs have been rea


Its irrelevant whether you look back 4, 5 or 6 seasons; both clubs haven't reached the expectations. What was my initial arguement? Also continental pedigree doesn't solely stem from winning.

I don't know what other Arsenal fans say. There's three giant clubs in this country and in recent years only one of those clubs, Liverpool, have met the levels expected.

Obviously you've not read my posts properly or struggle comprehending. The point I made was that both teams have struggled lately. I've not praised our Fa cup wins and have continually criticised Arteta. If anything I expect United to go on progressing as a top four side and Arsenal to struggle due to the managerial issues hindering us.
United have finished ahead of Liverpool in the league literally 4 months ago so we aren't far off them evidently.

Are Arsenal really a giant club these days though? They have never even won the main 2 European trophies, never mind recently. United, Chelsea, Liverpool have all won the CL or Europa League in recent times. Arsenal haven't even won the league since 2004, granted united haven't for a while but 2013 is still miles closer than 2004.

Arsenal might be a big club historically, but currently United are still a miles bigger club. Arsenal aren't even the biggest club in London anymore.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,284
While we should be aiming to everything we’re competing in I would take 2nd and a EL final loss over 6th and a EL win everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
Not for me but I’m built different.

Whilst I agree league place is a good indicator, finishing 2nd will not always transfer to 1st; you could finish 2nd & never quite make it based on a myriad of things.

I get what you mean but I’d rather win something & get the relative same result.

I do agree that any trophy is obviously better than no trophy, but winning the League Cup or Europa League alone are not a major factor in showing progression. Not winning these trophies is not a sign of a club struggling either which is what he suggested basically.

League positions over a few years show a much bigger sign of progress than winning minor trophies. If I had to choose for United to have won the EL last season and the FA Cup the season before, while finishing 6th in both seasons or finishing 3rd and 2nd the last two season, then I would choose the latter.

I would choose the league positions over minor trophies because league position shows that a team is closer to the major trophies than winning a few minor trophies.

Man United should be winning league titles and CL titles, these are the major trophies for being an elite club.
I’d agree we ‘should be’ but we haven’t been.

Imo we should have won 3 ELs in the past 5 years. I’ll always feel a little off about dismissing competitions our best 11 played in & didn’t win. When we would fall into it during the SAF years some of our top players were playing & lost but they’d already shown an ability to progress in the bigger tournament/won things.

You can win an EL & finish 2nd [or even higher] so when discussed as mutually exclusive I’m always a little bemused.

A team being ‘close’ to winning major trophies may eventually translate but not always.

My worry with writing off trophies other than the ‘big 2’ is that you can play damn well & not win those in this current football landscape, I just want to win everything we enter & am gutted whenever we lose but I also get your point.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

Full Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,284
Well thats a matter of opinion. Personally, I've never gotten excited about the league cup but have always respected the FA Cup. Of course United are closer than Arsenal but still quite far City, Liverpool etc.

I had no agenda it doesnt matter if I say 4, 5 or six seasons; both clubs have been rea


Its irrelevant whether you look back 4, 5 or 6 seasons; both clubs haven't reached the expectations. What was my initial arguement? Also continental pedigree doesn't solely stem from winning.

I don't know what other Arsenal fans say. There's three giant clubs in this country and in recent years only one of those clubs, Liverpool, have met the levels expected.

Obviously you've not read my posts properly or struggle comprehending. The point I made was that both teams have struggled lately. I've not praised our Fa cup wins and have continually criticised Arteta. If anything I expect United to go on progressing as a top four side and Arsenal to struggle due to the managerial issues hindering us.
Did you not read my post properly & struggle to comprehend the below sentence in my response to you? Looks like I agreed. . .
I’d agree both sides have struggled to meet expectations
Three giant clubs? There’s 2 mate :lol: Three! :lol:
 

MO_Football92

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 7, 2021
Messages
354
Supports
Arsenal
United have finished ahead of Liverpool in the league literally 4 months ago so we aren't far off them evidently.

Are Arsenal really a giant club these days though? They have never even won the main 2 European trophies, never mind recently. United, Chelsea, Liverpool have all won the CL or Europa League in recent times. Arsenal haven't even won the league since 2004, granted united haven't for a while but 2013 is still miles closer than 2004.

Arsenal might be a big club historically, but currently United are still a miles bigger club. Arsenal aren't even the biggest club in London anymore.
The league quality was poor last campaign as was the previous one; 2019-20. Its unrealistic going from losing to Villarreal to challenging City and Liverpool. But we'll see how your new signings impact things and if Ole has grown enough as a coach.

Everything else you wrote are your opinions. For me Real Madrid have always been the greatest club. After them I consider 7 other clubs roughly on the same level in terms of overrall stature.
 

LawCharltonBest

Enjoys watching fox porn
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
14,889
Location
Salford
What's Arsenal's XI looking like for next season?

They seem to have some exciting young players. Smith Rowe staying, Saka.. Is Willock staying now?

Am I also right in thinking they have no European competition?

Very ambitious to put them as title challengers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got into the CL places.
 

OverratedOpinion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
6,205
The league quality was poor last campaign as was the previous one; 2019-20. Its unrealistic going from losing to Villarreal to challenging City and Liverpool. But we'll see how your new signings impact things and if Ole has grown enough as a coach.

Everything else you wrote are your opinions. For me Real Madrid have always been the greatest club. After them I consider 7 other clubs roughly on the same level in terms of overrall stature.
You say everything he says is an opinion but then state that factually we cannot challenge the team we finished above last season because we only managed to get to the Europa league final before losing on Penalties.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,520
The league quality was poor last campaign as was the previous one; 2019-20. Its unrealistic going from losing to Villarreal to challenging City and Liverpool. But we'll see how your new signings impact things and if Ole has grown enough as a coach.

Everything else you wrote are your opinions. For me Real Madrid have always been the greatest club. After them I consider 7 other clubs roughly on the same level in terms of overrall stature.
Which are those 7 clubs?
 

The holy trinity 68

The disparager
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
5,790
Location
Manchester
The league quality was poor last campaign as was the previous one; 2019-20. Its unrealistic going from losing to Villarreal to challenging City and Liverpool. But we'll see how your new signings impact things and if Ole has grown enough as a coach.

Everything else you wrote are your opinions. For me Real Madrid have always been the greatest club. After them I consider 7 other clubs roughly on the same level in terms of overrall stature.
If the league quality was so poor the last 2 seasons then why did we still perform better than nearly every team? What does that say about Arsenal finishing 8th twice?

In terms of stature there are 6 clubs just behind Real Madrid for a similar level of stature and they are Man Utd, Liverpool, Barcelona, Bayern, Juve, Chelsea.

Then the level below them in stature are Atletico, Dortmund, Arsenal, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Ajax, Benfica, Porto and the oil clubs City and PSG.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,520
If the league quality was so poor the last 2 seasons then why did we still perform better than nearly every team? What does that say about Arsenal finishing 8th twice?

In terms of stature there are 6 clubs just behind Real Madrid for a similar level of stature and they are Man Utd, Liverpool, Barcelona, Bayern, Juve, Chelsea.

Then the level below them in stature are Atletico, Dortmund, Arsenal, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Ajax, Benfica, Porto and the oil clubs City and PSG.
I doubt you will see any non PL fans to agree with Arsenal being on the same level as Inter and Milan. They should be in the level below Madrid.
 

MUFC OK

New Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
7,216
What's Arsenal's XI looking like for next season?

They seem to have some exciting young players. Smith Rowe staying, Saka.. Is Willock staying now?

Am I also right in thinking they have no European competition?

Very ambitious to put them as title challengers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got into the CL places.
You have to be kidding, surely? The aforementioned young players are hyped because they have nothing else to champion.

They’re a clueless mess and I love to see it.
 

The holy trinity 68

The disparager
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
5,790
Location
Manchester
I doubt you will see any non PL fans to agree with Arsenal being on the same level as Inter and Milan. They should be in the level below Madrid.
Why? Arsenal haven't won the league since 2004 and have never even won the European Cup/Champions League. AC Milan have won 6 EC/CL trophies and Inter have 3 EC/CL trophies and have just won the league.
 

awop

Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2022/2023'
Newbie
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
4,086
Location
Paris
Supports
Arsenal
What's Arsenal's XI looking like for next season?

They seem to have some exciting young players. Smith Rowe staying, Saka.. Is Willock staying now?

Am I also right in thinking they have no European competition?

Very ambitious to put them as title challengers, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got into the CL places.
Leno
Chambers White Mari/Gabriel (injured) Tierney
Partey Xhaka
ESR Saka Pepe
Auba/Laca

The attack will probably change every week and might look different if we sign a new AM/striker.
I think everyone's target is 5/6th and that's a fair ask for this squad who should be fresher around January-March. Get EL, finish the cleanup, sign a good striker/GK in the summer and try to win it. Arteta is getting sacked if we're not getting this at the minimum.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,520
Why? Arsenal haven't won the league since 2004 and have never even won the European Cup/Champions League. AC Milan have won 6 EC/CL trophies and Inter have 3 EC/CL trophies and have just won the league.
I meant Milan clubs are level above, not Arsenal.
 

LawCharltonBest

Enjoys watching fox porn
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
14,889
Location
Salford
You have to be kidding, surely? The aforementioned young players are hyped because they have nothing else to champion.

They’re a clueless mess and I love to see it.
Their squad isn't as rotten as people make out. With no European Competition to concentrate on, they can focus completely on the league. Although he's the point of ridicule at the moment, people would be foolish to completely disregard Arteta too, some performances have been a joke, but there's a faint heartbeat there of what he can turn the team into... Even if he does continue to falter, Arsenal will likely just change manager before Christmas.

They'll need key players (Auba, Partey) to remain fit and committed. But top 4 isn't beyond them.

If they somehow manage to pull off the Maddison signing too.. Anyway, not saying they will get into the top 4 as the PL is so strong atm but i just wouldn't disregard them.

Leno
Chambers White Mari/Gabriel (injured) Tierney
Partey Xhaka
ESR Saka Pepe
Auba/Laca

The attack will probably change every week and might look different if we sign a new AM/striker.
I think everyone's target is 5/6th and that's a fair ask for this squad who should be fresher around January-March. Get EL, finish the cleanup, sign a good striker/GK in the summer and try to win it. Arteta is getting sacked if we're not getting this at the minimum.
I mean yeah, if he doesn't even finish in the EL spots with just domestic matters to focus on then he definitely needs the sack. Really, he should be aiming 4th IMO. Especially if he gets Maddison for example.
 

anant

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
8,258
The league quality was poor last campaign as was the previous one; 2019-20. Its unrealistic going from losing to Villarreal to challenging City and Liverpool. But we'll see how your new signings impact things and if Ole has grown enough as a coach.
Umm, do you realize that you're using the result in one game to say that we can't challenge City and Chelsea? It's like saying in the season before "It's unrealistic ( for CIty) going from losing to Lyon to challenging Pool".

The thing is had we not had that weird end to the season, the gap between us and City last season would have been less than 10 points? This despite us not having had a free mid week till April and us not having a pre-season (admittedly City didn't have one, but they have a much deeper squad)
 

MUFC OK

New Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
7,216
Their squad isn't as rotten as people make out. With no European Competition to concentrate on, they can focus completely on the league. Although he's the point of ridicule at the moment, people would be foolish to completely disregard Arteta too, some performances have been a joke, but there's a faint heartbeat there of what he can turn the team into... Even if he does continue to falter, Arsenal will likely just change manager before Christmas.

They'll need key players (Auba, Partey) to remain fit and committed. But top 4 isn't beyond them.

If they somehow manage to pull off the Maddison signing too.. Anyway, not saying they will get into the top 4 as the PL is so strong atm but i just wouldn't disregard them.
I think the first bolded part is massively overstated. The likes of Wolves were poor last season without european football. Leicester's league form worsened after their EL exit etc - obvs last season was an anomaly but nonetheless.

Auba is over the hill for me and Partey has been consistently injured which doesnt bode well.

I just don't see their current squad being anywhere near top 4 standards, I see a lack of leaders and holding on to Xhaka seems to go in the face of the culture shift they were supposed to be implementing.
 

GoonerBear

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
3,002
Supports
Arsenal
I think the first bolded part is massively overstated. The likes of Wolves were poor last season without european football. Leicester's league form worsened after their EL exit etc - obvs last season was an anomaly but nonetheless.

Auba is over the hill for me and Partey has been consistently injured which doesnt bode well.

I just don't see their current squad being anywhere near top 4 standards, I see a lack of leaders and holding on to Xhaka seems to go in the face of the culture shift they were supposed to be implementing.
We aren't going to finish top 4, as the top 4 are much stronger than us despite MO's opinion.

As awop said, back in the Europa League should be the target if we are trying to be realistic and build in stages. Was hoping for more change than what we have managed so far, but if you can't get players out the door, then it's difficult to get players in.

That's not just our problem, that's league wide, perhaps even europe wide when you look that teams like Barca & Real are the most desperate to shift guys out & are struggling.
 

Tony247

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
9,486
Banters aside, I don't think Arsenal has too much weak squad. I think if they start well in first 10 matches then that momentum can see them fighting closely for top 4.
 

awop

Odds winner of 'Odds or Evens 2022/2023'
Newbie
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Messages
4,086
Location
Paris
Supports
Arsenal
Banters aside, I don't think Arsenal has too much weak squad. I think if they start well in first 10 matches then that momentum can see them fighting closely for top 4.
In the first 10 games we play City, Chelsea, Leicester, Villa (:smirk:) and Spurs with Liverpool as the 12th fixture. We're going to need 2 or 3 important results in these big games. Looking a bit unlikely at the moment.
 

Mogget

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
6,520
Supports
Arsenal
Umm, do you realize that you're using the result in one game to say that we can't challenge City and Chelsea? It's like saying in the season before "It's unrealistic ( for CIty) going from losing to Lyon to challenging Pool".

The thing is had we not had that weird end to the season, the gap between us and City last season would have been less than 10 points? This despite us not having had a free mid week till April and us not having a pre-season (admittedly City didn't have one, but they have a much deeper squad)
The gap between us and 4th place was six points.

Why are we deluded for thinking we might finish higher than 8th next season but it's reasonable for a United fan to think you're going to challenge for the title?
 

anant

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
8,258
The gap between us and 4th place was six points.

Why are we deluded for thinking we might finish higher than 8th next season but it's reasonable for a United fan to think you're going to challenge for the title?
If you're saying that you'll finish in top 4, it's a tall order as you're expecting 4 of the teams that finished above you to have a worse season this time than you. If you're expecting a finish higher than 8th next time, I agree it's quite likely to happen.

As far as the United fans going for the title is concerned, there are two parts to this. 1. Ruling out title challenge because we lost a one-off game is a stupid argument. Like I said earlier, one can come to very weird and ridiculous conclusions if that's the methodology being used.

Secondly, we finished 12 points behind City, despite us having had to play 4 games in 8 days, no preseason, and us having been the only side that didn't have a mid-week off till April. I'd expect that, if we remove the injury argument (i.e. injuries affected xyz team's finish), as that argument will be there with or without COVID, I'd say we were probably among the teams that was impacted the most due to the compacted season (of course a part of it was our doing after we were relegated to EL after CL GS exit)
 

jus2nang

New Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
172
Supports
Arsenal
And alternatively, there seems to be a lot on here & social media using the Varane transfer as a way to beat up the White transfer. Do we really care what each costs? Arsenal fans could turn round & say they've now got White & Gabriel for less than Harry Maguire, & Utd fans wouldn't give a flying feck quite rightly. The fee's & players mean nothing without context, & to be honest on this day & age of ridiculous fee's they mean feck all anyway.

I just think Utd did well getting Varane, & they have on paper now a league challenging partnership. Let's hope they play as well as they sound on paper.
Exhorbitant fees mean less money to spend elsewhere. That's why fans are bothered by them. Varane is on a different planet to White, so quite rightly some Arsenal fans feel we've been royally mugged off.

The squad needs major surgery so splurging Varane money (ball park) but ending up with Ben White isn't going to go down well.

I remember there was disbelief when Thierry Henry and Darren Bent went for the same fees in the same summer...