Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[awop]

Not deemed good enough by a club you’re competing with for CL football.

That is one hell of a stretch...
We spent a full season watching Aubameyang missing 3y sitters and Lacazette hands on hips gassed even though he came on as a sub on the 85th minute. He probably won't score 20 goals a season but there is a very good chance that he can't be worse than what whe had. I know that's a low bar for a potential 50M signing but to compare him to Willian is just ridiculous.

 

[Teja]

Jesus isn’t a CF so it will be interesting to see how this pans out

I think he'll effectively be a Firmino like player. He can drop off the defenders, provides good link up play, works hard, can lead the press etc.

 

[Mastadon]

I'd suggest if he was any good, City wouldn't have signed two other strikers and then be selling him.

Not really a serious argument against him this. City are operating on another level there is no shame being pushed out of a club like that. Guys like Sanchez and Robben were discarded by Barca and Real I doubt anybody would say they weren’t any good.

 

[Offside]

Thing is, if they start the season badly, they’ll sack him and potentially install a top manager. That squad he’s building will be great under a proper manager. Young as well.

Don’t really see it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That is one hell of a stretch...
We spent a full season watching Aubameyang missing 3y sitters and Lacazette hands on hips gassed even though he came on as a sub on the 85th minute. He probably won't score 20 goals a season but there is a very good chance that he can't be worse than what whe had. I know that's a low bar for a potential 50M signing but to compare him to Willian is just ridiculous.

A stretch? It’s an indisputable fact that he wasn’t deemed good enough at City (nor sought after by any of the really big clubs). He is also Brazilian. Hence I’m reminded of Willian. Albeit a hell of a lot more expensive.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Not really a serious argument against him this. City are operating on another level there is no shame being pushed out of a club like that. Guys like Sanchez and Robben were discarded by Barca and Real I doubt anybody would say they weren’t any good.

I think what he means is if he was any good, he would've been kept as a squad option at the very least. I remember he looked decent when he first broke through, but then became inconsistent and constantly disappears from games. A very expensive Lacazette replacement and a bit of a gamble as I can't see him being happy getting dropped for Nketiah when he's off form.

 

[Mastadon]

I think what he means is if he was any good, he would've been kept as a squad option at the very least. I remember he looked decent when he first broke through, but then became inconsistent and constantly disappears from games. A very expensive Lacazette replacement and a bit of a gamble as I can't see him being happy getting dropped for Nketiah when he's off form.

He was good enough to play for them for the last 5 years or so wasn’t he? He wants to play regularly and he only has a year left on his contract so it makes sense for them to sell him. 45m for a 25 year old PL proven player like him is hardly a gamble IMO.

 

[GoonerBear]

A stretch? It’s an indisputable fact that he wasn’t deemed good enough at City (nor sought after by any of the really big clubs). He is also Brazilian. Hence I’m reminded of Willian. Albeit a hell of a lot more expensive.

City wanted to keep him though.

 

[crossy1686]

Not really a serious argument against him this. City are operating on another level there is no shame being pushed out of a club like that. Guys like Sanchez and Robben were discarded by Barca and Real I doubt anybody would say they weren’t any good.

If he was good enough for the top 4 he would a bench option for City but they’re willing to let him go.

When City first signed him he looked good but I haven’t seen him have a good game since then. I’m not sure what his strengths are because he doesn’t seem particularly good at anything, even his finishing is just okay.

Good players have left good teams before but it hardly ever ends up with the buying team getting someone at the top of their game.

 

[Dancfc]

There will be excuses. Absolutely no doubt about that. The smart money would be weaving some bullshit about how incredibly difficult it is to compete in a European competition and in the league at the same time.

My moneys on "you can't expect a manager so young to topple Conte and Tuchel".

 

[tinfish]

I think what he means is if he was any good, he would've been kept as a squad option at the very least. I remember he looked decent when he first broke through, but then became inconsistent and constantly disappears from games. A very expensive Lacazette replacement and a bit of a gamble as I can't see him being happy getting dropped for Nketiah when he's off form.

Think most Arsenal fans are satisfied with the Jesus signing. What other option is there in the limited striker market? I think Jesus is the best we can reasoinably get and the price isn't too bad.

Last January we were linked to Isak for £80 million...

He is a massive upgrade on Nketiah and Laca.

Now for the next signing I want Gnabry rather than Raphina. He's a superior player and prefers LW. Also I think there were shouts he wants a go in the middle so that's more versatility. The Vieira signing I personally think is utter pointless.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Nketiah will outscore him given equal opportunities

 

[Flexdegea]

Which striker could/should we have got this summer in your opinion?

Not sure as I don't follow arsenal much, but he ain't a striker in my books.

 

[Dancfc]

Now for the next signing I want Gnabry rather than Raphina. He's a superior player and prefers LW. Also I think there were shouts he wants a go in the middle so that's more versatility. The Vieira signing I personally think is utter pointless.

That's another thing. Last season so so results were rationed that it was all about it being a youth project with Saka, ESR, Martenelli and Odegaard front and centre.

With Jesus and Raphina obviously going to be starters with their price tag how many of those 4 will be starting with everyone fit now? I can't imagine any more than two.

 

[Nish115]

The fact that you go on the City Forum, and they're all gutted he's leaving speaks more volume than what anyone on here is assuming tbh.

The guy has great stats, and works incredibly hard and turns up for big games. The reason he's leaving, is because City signed Haaland and because he wants to secure his place in the Brazil squad which will only be through playing regularly. There's nothing wrong with either of those two things...

As for some sort of comparison I saw to Willian above.. wow.

 

[awop]

A stretch? It’s an indisputable fact that he wasn’t deemed good enough at City (nor sought after by any of the really big clubs). He is also Brazilian. Hence I’m reminded of Willian. Albeit a hell of a lot more expensive.

He was reportedly offered a new contract but wanted more playtime. Spurs and Chelsea were linked but Tottenham is not dropping Kane and Chelsea don't seem to know what they want to do yet.
Being deemed not good enough because City have the opportunity to sign Harry Kane or Haalaand is something he surely can live with.

The Vieira signing I personally think is utter pointless.

Same as Raphinha for Saka, he would be competition for Odegaard on a cheap wage. Probably the smartest move of the summer for us. We've seen Odegaard having invisible games, getting taken off and the whole team just dies. 0 creativity. 30 minutes of hoofing it or Holding™ for dear life.
People really want to go in a 60 games season (+ a WC) with two 20y old starting every game

 

[tinfish]

That's another thing. Last season so so results were rationed that it was all about it being a youth project with Saka, ESR, Martenelli and Odegaard front and centre.

With Jesus and Raphina obviously going to be starters with their price tag how many of those 4 will be starting with everyone fit now? I can't imagine any more than two.

Think they will all get playing time given how thin our squad is and how many more games we have this season.

Pepe is likely to leave, and maybe one of the above mentioned will leave after the season if they underperform, or potentially Saka if we don't secure CL.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Arsenal seem to be spending fairly big this summer as they did last summer. Are there finally any expectations of Arteta or is 5th to 8th still good enough for Arsenal fans?

 

[Mastadon]

If he was good enough for the top 4 he would a bench option for City but they’re willing to let him go.

When City first signed him he looked good but I haven’t seen him have a good game since then. I’m not sure what his strengths are because he doesn’t seem particularly good at anything, even his finishing is just okay.

Good players have left good teams before but it hardly ever ends up with the buying team getting someone at the top of their game.

We’ve done it before with Bergkamp,Henry, Sanchez, Ozil etc.

 

[ThatsGreat]

Not really bothered about Arteta, I'm just pleased to see another season of 100m+ spending meaning that last season wasn't a flash in the pan. If we spend enough the squad is going to be good enough to compete irrespective of the manager.

 

[GoonerBear]

That's another thing. Last season so so results were rationed that it was all about it being a youth project with Saka, ESR, Martenelli and Odegaard front and centre.

With Jesus and Raphina obviously going to be starters with their price tag how many of those 4 will be starting with everyone fit now? I can't imagine any more than two.

Dan, we are doing exactly what everyone said we needed to do. We needed to add to the squad because the squad wasn't good enough to cope with European football, and we needed a bit more experience & players that were coming into their prime now.

So I don't understand the criticism for us doing what even the Caf said we needed to do.

Last season you had CHO, Ziyech, Lukaku, Werner, Havertz & Pulisic competing for the forward positions. City had 6 or 7, Liverpool had 6 or 7, so we're just trying to get a squad similar in quality & quantity to you guys.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

Usual ones like open play xg, open play xGA, PPDA. Take a look at zones of control as well.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2022/06/english-premier-league-2021-22-stats

https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/Premier-League-Stats

A good 10-15% difference between Spurs and Arsenal in both xG and xGA. Infact Arsenal open play xG in one of their best seasons recently is the same as United who had an utter dogshit season.

Actually something interesting I noticed was the open play xg diff - you scored 39G from ~49 xG. That is some Brighton level of luck / poor finishing. Most other teams are about on par with their xG total. Wonder if anyone has thoughts there.

Like you say our xG is actually close to Spurs but they had much better match winners in Kane and Son. However adding Jesus and Raphina will mean we should create more because they're both more creative and better at beating a couple of defenders the game than ESR, Gabby or Laca. I'm pretty sure replacing Jesus for Laca will make us more clinical because Laca did not have the legs to get in the box anymore. Jesus does, even if he isn't clinical he'll be an option in the box where as Laca would be busy having an asthma attack on the half way line.

Also IMO a front 3 of Saka Jesus and Raphina gives the best pressing in the PL and the best dribbling ability of a front 3 in the PL. Saka, Raphina and Jesus with their dribbling ability can all turn defenders upside down and there's not many front lines where all 3 forwards offer this. While they may not be the best finishers we should stretch teams far more with the combination of those 3 beating players and interlinking.

Like Ruud Guilt used to say, it's 'Sexy Football'

 

[RedPed]

Arsenal seem to be spending fairly big this summer as they did last summer. Are there finally any expectations of Arteta or is 5th to 8th still good enough for Arsenal fans?

They had no excuse for not finishing at least 4th and progressing in the cups last season with their outlay, no European football and the flakiness of Chelsea/United/Spurs/Wham etc. Arsenal fans are demanding CL football as the bare minimum this season but the problem is things are going to be tougher. I still have hope for United that we're not going to be as bad as last season and the position 5-10 clubs will be more competitive too.

I just want to see them destroyed.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

They had no excuse for not finishing at least 4th and progressing in the cups last season with their outlay, no European football and the flakiness of Chelsea/United/Spurs/Wham etc. Arsenal fans are demanding CL football as the bare minimum this season but the problem is things are going to be tougher. I still have hope for United that we're not going to be as bad as last season and the position 5-10 clubs will be more competitive too.

I just want to see them destroyed.

There are only 2 spots in top4 for 4 clubs(arsenal, Spurs Chelsea and man Utd). There are always excuses to miss out. Relax.

 

[Daydreamer]

There is nothing fearful about that squad. They are mid table team if calender not allowed week a game.

@Pogue Mahone Excuses such as Too many signings in single window need time to gel well. Weekly twice a game for such a young squad.

Something I find fascinating is how the impact of Europa League commitments have somehow grown to mythical proportions in this thread.

Last season we played a whopping 4 games less than a United side we finished 11 points ahead of.

It was our first campaign without European football in nearly three decades. Somehow I think the club manage.

 

[RedPed]

There are only 2 spots in top4 for 4 clubs(arsenal, Spurs Chelsea and man Utd). There are always excuses to miss out. Relax.

Relax?? You literally had NO excuse not to get top 4 last season...period! It was in your hands for months right down to the last THREE games of the season and you fecking bottled it.

Your fans are as deluded as ever but Europa Conference is the best you lot can hope for this season. And the cone man will still be there.

 

[awop]

Relax?? You literally had NO excuse not to get top 4 last season...period! It was in your hands for months right down to the last THREE games of the season and you fecking bottled it.

Your fans are as deluded as ever but Europa Conference is the best you lot can hope for this season. And the cone man will still be there.

When agitated, one should relax.

 

[RacingClub]

Think Jesus is a great signing for Arsenal and an enormous upgrade on what they currently have.

Think he will link up well with the 3 behind and probably get into double figures of goals and assists next season barring injuries.

City would have definitely kept him as back up if he wasn't pushing for a move (He needs playing time to get back in to the world cup squad) and being "Not good enough to start as a striker for Peps City" isnt that damning.

Aguero wasn't a guaranteed starter either and he was probably the best premier league Striker of the past decade.

Their full back backup is absolutely atrocious though and the injuries to their fullbacks (along with Partey) is what cost them top 4 last season, Tavares is a total liability and Cedric isn't much better.

They should be reinforcing those areas (maybe they have already, I haven't been paying that much attention).

 

[Abraxas]

Jesus is a good signing. Whether he's a massive difference maker, I'm not sure. Maybe he is, but he's never been ruthless. I think it's still going to be pretty hard to make significant progress for Arsenal, although at this point they can certainly claim to have stolen a march on us and Chelsea.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Relax?? You literally had NO excuse not to get top 4 last season...period! It was in your hands for months right down to the last THREE games of the season and you fecking bottled it.

Your fans are as deluded as ever but Europa Conference is the best you lot can hope for this season. And the cone man will still be there.

I am pretty relax because it is just a sport. 2nd, 3rd or 5th makes zero difference in my life. Relax.

 

[Donaldo]

I am pretty relax because it is just a sport. 2nd, 3rd or 5th makes zero difference in my life. Relax.

This is a United forum. It's literally chock full with people who think their reason for existence is a trophy. Not winning for a few years has severely impacted a few mentally.

 

[GledTheRed]

Going this joker a lot of money to blow.

 

[RedPed]

I am pretty relax because it is just a sport. 2nd, 3rd or 5th makes zero difference in my life. Relax.

This is a United forum. It's literally chock full with people who think their reason for existence is a trophy. Not winning for a few years has severely impacted a few mentally.

Coming from one of the most deluded fanbases in English football? You may want to talk to some of your own peeps, ffs.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Gabriel Jesus is a great buy IMO and the best forward we probably could have attracted considering no CL football. His stats are solid and still only 25yo. He isn’t as clinical as we’d probably like but he also does create quite a bit. If our attack is centred around him hopefully he can be that 20+ goal/season striker we desperately need. When I think we tried to get Vlahovic for 80mil in Jan, 50mil for Jesus is good business.

Very pleased with our moves so far. We missed out on top 4 because of poor squad depth. If we can also sort out our full back cover, I’d be chuffed.

 

[GoonerInPeace]

As an Arsenal fan who has maligned our lack of ambition and will to compete, I have to say this change of direction is very much welcome. We are being aggressive and are literally chasing all of Raphina, Lisanro, Teilimans. We have the third richest owners in the league after City and Newcastle & have the highest matchday revenue in the league (due to higher ticket prices), & ever since The Kroenkes took full ownership of the club in 2018 we have done some big deals. Pepe, PEA 350k a week deal come to mind. Both ended in tears but the important thing is intent. There is a new renaissance at Arsenal & all Gooners can feel it. Were throwing some of our financial muscle around & its about time too.

All preconceptions of Arsenal being passive in the transfer market - shed them now. That being said Arteta is under proper pressure now. Which is the way it should be.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

As an Arsenal fan who has maligned our lack of ambition and will to compete, I have to say this change of direction is very much welcome. We are being aggressive and are literally chasing all of Raphina, Lisanro, Teilimans. We have the third richest owners in the league after City and Newcastle & have the highest matchday revenue in the league (due to higher ticket prices), & ever since The Kroenkes took full ownership of the club in 2018 we have done some big deals. Pepe, PEA 350k a week deal come to mind. Both ended in tears but the important thing is intent. There is a new renaissance at Arsenal & all Gooners can feel it. Were throwing some of our financial muscle around & its about time too.

All preconceptions of Arsenal being passive in the transfer market - shed them now. That being said Arteta is under proper pressure now. Which is the way it should be.

Every manager/Head coach is under pressure. They are as good as their last game. There is zero job security and they know it.

 

[TwoSheds]

Seems like he's going the Pep route of having 2 quality players for every forward position. Other than the fact most of them are a bit average. Personally as a top 4 challenger I'd rather have a quality first xi and lack depth than have depth but lack quality but let's see.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

Relax?? You literally had NO excuse not to get top 4 last season...period! It was in your hands for months right down to the last THREE games of the season and you fecking bottled it.

Your fans are as deluded as ever but Europa Conference is the best you lot can hope for this season. And the cone man will still be there.

TBF we do have quite a good excuse for missing out in that we had far the worst front 3 out of the top 6. Any time we went 1-0 down it was game over for us pretty much. Getting Jesus and Raphina should go some way to elevating this issue.

As for being 'deluded' it seems rival fans are angry we aren't deluded enough and turning on our management. Where as your fanbase seems to be demanding instant top 4 with a United squad with very serious issues.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

I feel more stress when I pay for the gas of my car and my electricity bill than Arsenal not finishing 4th.

 

[ThatsGreat]

Seems like he's going the Pep route of having 2 quality players for every forward position. Other than the fact most of them are a bit average. Personally as a top 4 challenger I'd rather have a quality first xi and lack depth than have depth but lack quality but let's see.

Raphinha - Jesus - Saka, lacks quality?