Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

ThierryFabregas

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Emery finished 5th the season before Arteta arrived. They have then went on to spend £300m to finish 8th and 5th in his two full seasons. So Arsenal have not even improved under Arteta but have spent a fortune in that time.
Man United finished 4th the season before SAF came in. They sacked Atkinson because they were mid-table, then Fergie took them to 12th place. Fergie then finished 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd before finally winning a title. HE was spending large amounts for the league throughout his tenure but by your logic you would of sacked him in his first 3 1/2 seasons. And by all accounts he was close to being sacked if not for Mark Robbins keeping him in the FA Cup and then winning it.

We finished 5th under Emery, but A) Our expected points was allot lower than 5th B) most of our points came when Ramsey started. Ramsey and Kosceilny then left

We were 12th place when Arteta took over and we were in freefall. Our best player in Ozil had essentially gone on strike. Ramsey had left. Our best CB of many years priorin Kosceilny had left. We were in complete and utter disseray and our 12th place in the league absolutely reflected our level rather than the prior years finish.

As for spending. You're ignoring wages. We've massively reduced our wage bill. While Ronaldo is costing you 52 million in wages over 2 seasons alone. Varane will cost 70.7million over 4 years. That's over 120 million on 2 players wages and you're acting like Arsenal are spending more money than United on players. Not to mention the huge wages Rashford and Martial are on.
 

GifLord

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Man United finished 4th the season before SAF came in. They sacked Atkinson because they were mid-table, then Fergie took them to 12th place. Fergie then finished 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd before finally winning a title. HE was spending large amounts for the league throughout his tenure but by your logic you would of sacked him in his first 3 1/2 seasons. And by all accounts he was close to being sacked if not for Mark Robbins keeping him in the FA Cup and then winning it.

We finished 5th under Emery, but A) Our expected points was allot lower than 5th B) most of our points came when Ramsey started. Ramsey and Kosceilny then left

We were 12th place when Arteta took over and we were in freefall. Our best player in Ozil had essentially gone on strike. Ramsey had left. Our best CB of many years priorin Kosceilny had left. We were in complete and utter disseray and our 12th place in the league absolutely reflected our level rather than the prior years finish.

As for spending. You're ignoring wages. We've massively reduced our wage bill. While Ronaldo is costing you 52 million in wages over 2 seasons alone. Varane will cost 70.7million over 4 years. That's over 120 million on 2 players wages and you're acting like Arsenal are spending more money than United on players. Not to mention the huge wages Rashford and Martial are on.
He wasn't even spending the most ffs. Newcastle, Blackburn and even Liverpool from late 80s to mid 90s spent more money
87-95 Utd 45m€, Newcasle 66m€, Blackburn 54m€, Nottingham 32,5m€ , Liverpool 65m, Arsenal 44m€, Leeds 28,5m€
 

ThierryHenry14

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After winning the stanley cup and superbowl, Stan Kroenke must be really appreciated the lecture on how to manage a sport team in EPL and how to set expectation on manager. Arteta must be really good at lowering Josh Kroenke's expectation as he just said he is super happy with the progress Arteta made.

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/a...arteta-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics
A good read for Arteta's tactic.
 
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Iker Quesadillas

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We finished 5th under Emery, but A) Our expected points was allot lower than 5th
Do you have a citation or a set of data that shows the relationship between 'Expected Points' and 'the actual outcomes of football'?

Expected Points is completely fecking useless. 'Expected Points' for Liverpool in 18-19 were 14 less than what they actually got. Did that change the next season? No, they got 25 more than expected and won the PL.
 
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GoonerBear

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Okay I am sorry. The Arteta excuses will be used as usual when he fails though.

"Every team above us spent more money", is an excuse that will wear thin pretty easily. I just don't understand why when Wenger and Emery were not excused like Arteta.
OK, I'll try and explain it as best as I see it.

Firstly, let me state that not everyone is Wenger Out, and not everyone is Arteta In. These views aren't unanimous.

I think the Wenger Out lot, and let's be honest many of the rival fans and media, seen Wenger as being past his best, that his tactics were a bit outdated, and we needed a modern coach with modern ideas to help us compete with the likes of Klopp & Pep.

His last few transfer windows were poor, including spending £90M or so on Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez, and then spending £50M on Lacazette only to spend another £50M on Aubameyang 6 months later. You could see this regression on the park, sliding from a Champions League club to 5th and then to 6th, and attending the games themselves were becoming poisonous because of the whole Wenger In vs Wenger Out. It seemed change had to happen to try and unite the club again, as a divided club tends to not be a successful club. The general feeling was sthat the club was underachieving I think, & that with a couple of additions, and new modern coaching, we'd be back up there.

Emery came in, and like I have said countless times, done ok. He got a raw deal from the fans, the players, from Sanllehi and the media. You seen even last season, The Good Ebening still comes out when talking about him. But sometimes when it unravels quick like that, there's just a feeling there's no way back, and that was the general feeling with Emery unfortunately.

Now, as for Arteta, apparently he was Josh Kronke's pick when Wenger was leaving, but he allowed Sanllehi & Gazidas to call the shots. Now he's more active, you can see how they like a young coach they can get behind with their other sports franchises and they like to back them. It was probably Josh that kept Arteta in the job when he was struggling back in 2020. A lot of the crowd wanted him gone (some still do).

However, I also think a lot of the crowd realise that there was something more deep rooted wrong than just changing a coach, buying a couple of players and that would solve all issues. There was an understanding that we had been run poor for a good few years, that the transfer business of those years was shocking, we had a lot of upheaval with Wenger, Gazidas, Emery, Minsilat, Sanllehi all coming in and leaving, & a lot of money was wasted and perhaps we just needed continuity and give a manager a chance to build something.

Now, believe it or not, Arteta isn't getting backed blindly. Football fans in general aren't stupid, they tend to continue to back a manager when they see progress, and they tend to be on a managers back if things stall or regress. From 8th, 8th to 5th doesn't sound big progress, but from 58 points to 69 points is ok. From everything we are hearing behind the scenes, even from your own Rio, the club seem united again off the park. I'm not a match going fan as I live in Scotland, but the atmosphere at the ground is apparently much better, there is a better connection between the team and the players. I think we can see a team that's starting to show promise, but a squad that is severely lacking in quality depth.

The next question is can we continue to show progress, improve the squad further, therefore improving the points total, get further on in the cups and in Europe, because if he doesn't, then yeah, the support will be on his back.
 
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SilentWitness

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Pressure on him is huge now. No top 4 this season and he should be out.
 

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Arsenal playing mighty FC Nürnberg right now for a preseason friendly. The "Glubb" has already scored 5 (3-5 to Arsenal :D )
 

maniak

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The fact #artetaout was trending after yesterday's match shows the fans aren't really as united as some people in this thread seem to believe. A bad start and it'll all go toxic pretty quickly.
 

Donaldo

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The fact #artetaout was trending after yesterday's match shows the fans aren't really as united as some people in this thread seem to believe. A bad start and it'll all go toxic pretty quickly.
It means feck all, apart from the fact that Twitter is full of scrotes, not that it needed more confirmation.
 

SportingCP96

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Not sure if he is the right guy for the job BUT what I can say is Arsenal have done some great business and have a nice young set of talent to build around. Their is a lot of promise around this squad!
 

GoonerBear

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Not sure if he is the right guy for the job BUT what I can say is Arsenal have done some great business and have a nice young set of talent to build around. Their is a lot of promise around this squad!
Im looking forward to seeing how Saliba is, see if the lad justifies the hype. Hes really is like a new signing considering we've waited 3 years to see the kid!
 

GoonerBear

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Apparently going for Zinchenko now, which actually makes sense.

A player that already plays the inverted left back role and midfield, knows the league, knows the manager and the system he's looking play.

Im surprised we seem to go for Martinez over him, I think it was probably Martinez ability to play centre back as well that had him favoured.

Martinez makes more sense for Utd, ex manager, he knows his system and gets to play in the position hes been playing in most recent.

Deals that suit all parties I would say (if Arsenal can land Zinchenko that is).
 

RacingClub

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Apparently going for Zinchenko now, which actually makes sense.

A player that already plays the inverted left back role and midfield, knows the league, knows the manager and the system he's looking play.

Im surprised we seem to go for Martinez over him, I think it was probably Martinez ability to play centre back as well that had him favoured.

Martinez makes more sense for Utd, ex manager, he knows his system and gets to play in the position hes been playing in most recent.

Deals that suit all parties I would say (if Arsenal can land Zinchenko that is).
It will be interesting to see how he does if he goes there, I'm not 100% sure if he's top quality but it's an enormous upgrade on Tavares.

Seems like a good character who works hard etc and still young.
 

marktan

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The problem I have with Arsenal is that they're signing all the lower calibre City players that aren't wanted and allowing City to replace them with better players. Jesus -> Halaand, Zinchenko -> Cucerella.

City don't need the money, but I can't help but feel Arsenal are getting a raw deal on both fronts, strengthening a rival for top 4 and singing players for big money that aren't really elite level.
 

GoonerBear

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It will be interesting to see how he does if he goes there, I'm not 100% sure if he's top quality but it's an enormous upgrade on Tavares.

Seems like a good character who works hard etc and still young.
From what I've seen of him, he's not the best when actually asked to defend out wide, but then that seems to be said about a lot of modern full backs.

Seems it more important these days to be able to contribute when you have the ball than to actually be robust defensively when you don't.

Transfer still a long way off, and we know what happened with the Martinez and Raphinha deals.
 

mu4c_20le

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I've always thought of him as the Ukrainian Lingard, without the off field stuff. He's an attacking midfielder by trade, but isnt good enough to play there for City, and managed to find a place at left back for them due to his work rate.

Decent player, PL experience blah blah blah. I think Arsenal fans will be surprised though when they realize he can't really defend when put under a bit of pressure, and only seemed to work there due to Pep's system.
 

awop

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The problem I have with Arsenal is that they're signing all the lower calibre City players that aren't wanted and allowing City to replace them with better players. Jesus -> Halaand, Zinchenko -> Cucerella.

City don't need the money, but I can't help but feel Arsenal are getting a raw deal on both fronts, strengthening a rival for top 4 and singing players for big money that aren't really elite level.
City signing better players allowed us to get Jesus and maybe Zinchenko, not the other way round. They don't really care what other clubs do, they could have kept Jesus knowing Haaland was coming.
 

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The problem I have with Arsenal is that they're signing all the lower calibre City players that aren't wanted and allowing City to replace them with better players. Jesus -> Halaand, Zinchenko -> Cucerella.

City don't need the money, but I can't help but feel Arsenal are getting a raw deal on both fronts, strengthening a rival for top 4 and singing players for big money that aren't really elite level.
Yes and no, I think a lot of those guys just went to start consistently which was not happening at City due to how loaded the team is . Gabriel Jesus would be a player every team in the EPL would want for example
 

ThatsGreat

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I've always thought of him as the Ukrainian Lingard, without the off field stuff. He's an attacking midfielder by trade, but isnt good enough to play there for City, and managed to find a place at left back for them due to his work rate.

Decent player, PL experience blah blah blah. I think Arsenal fans will be surprised though when they realize he can't really defend when put under a bit of pressure, and only seemed to work there due to Pep's system.
He's backup LB and CM. No one's expecting him to set the world alight. Difference between City and Arsenal are that the first teamers here, Tierney and Xhaka, can be removed.
 

NoPace

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I think Zinchenko will surprise a lot of people
I think it depends on how Arsenal use him. Them being in for Raphinha makes me think the plan might be to move Saka to the left to stretch play and since they're basically playing a CB at RB (Tomiyasu, Saliba or White) Zinchenko could play infield to help out the lone #6, with Viera and Odegaard in front of him:


-------------Jesus---------RW
Saka--Vieira-Odegaard
-Zinchenko-#6--------------
----Gabriel-White-Tomiyasu

Looks like a nice team and the best use of him. Might annoy Saka though, and he's only got 2 years left on his deal I think.
 

mu4c_20le

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He's backup LB and CM. No one's expecting him to set the world alight. Difference between City and Arsenal are that the first teamers here, Tierney and Xhaka, can be removed.
Yeah not saying he's crap, but a little surprised at how excited arsenal twitter are getting, they're making him sound like an elite modern full back! Probably just the buzz of a new signing though.
 

GoonerBear

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I think it depends on how Arsenal use him. Them being in for Raphinha makes me think the plan might be to move Saka to the left to stretch play and since they're basically playing a CB at RB (Tomiyasu, Saliba or White) Zinchenko could play infield to help out the lone #6, with Viera and Odegaard in front of him:


-------------Jesus---------RW
Saka--Vieira-Odegaard
-Zinchenko-#6--------------
----Gabriel-White-Tomiyasu

Looks like a nice team and the best use of him. Might annoy Saka though, and he's only got 2 years left on his deal I think.
I believe part of that was our plan if we got Martinez. Starts off left back but actually when in possession comes inside to support the number 6. This then allows the number 8's to push high.

I think he'd like to do the same with Zinchenko. However, it remains to be seen if Zinchenko would be happy with that I suppose.

Unless he uses Zinchenko as 1 of the number 8's.

Yeah not saying he's crap, but a little surprised at how excited arsenal twitter are getting, they're making him sound like an elite modern full back! Probably just the buzz of a new signing though.
There's your mistake, listening to Arsenal Twitter!
 

Daydreamer

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The problem I have with Arsenal is that they're signing all the lower calibre City players that aren't wanted and allowing City to replace them with better players. Jesus -> Halaand, Zinchenko -> Cucerella.

City don't need the money, but I can't help but feel Arsenal are getting a raw deal on both fronts, strengthening a rival for top 4 and singing players for big money that aren't really elite level.
Let’s be real here - City are not currently our rivals. They are using our money to strengthen, but they would have just have just got that money elsewhere had we not bought Jesus (and possibly Zinchenko). It’s a sad fact that their rotation players would get far more games for us. But that applies equally to Chelsea. (Perhaps even more so as Zinchenko might struggle to dislodge Tierney, but Ake walks straight into Chelsea’s decimated back line.)

Barring Liverpool, the entire league is in the same boat. Hopefully, offering more game time and higher wages to the likes of Jesus is stepping to a point where we can start to challenge once more.
 
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Joel Miller

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To his credit Arteta really did seem to grow as a manager as the season went on. That being said they completed choked what should have been a top 4 finish in the end. Still, he did make significant progress beyond what I imagined he would when he went to Arsenal.
 

GoonerInPeace

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Zinchenko is the alternative to Martinez. Neither would have made the first 11 with all players fully fit, but their versality at left back and midfield is what's needed. Especially when Tavares is the back up left back to Tierney who has injury problems. Still think Tielimans will follow Zinchenko & that will be it as far as signings go
 

OneUnited24

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Zinchenko is the alternative to Martinez. Neither would have made the first 11 with all players fully fit, but their versality at left back and midfield is what's needed. Especially when Tavares is the back up left back to Tierney who has injury problems. Still think Tielimans will follow Zinchenko & that will be it as far as signings go
Do you rate Tierney in this current system? I see it as a variation of what city used to play and in that system the fall backs tend to hold a high central position. However Tierney just bombs to the byline to get a cross in which doesn’t suit arsenals forwards. I would think zinchenko is better suited to the system and I always thought that’s why Asnl wanted Martinez
 

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Given the rumoured fee of 35m plus add ons, I have to imagine that he’ll be a regular starter. I question the wisdom of a team like Arsenal blowing such a huge wedge on what is essentially a reserve full back. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was being signed to play as a DM, he’s a very technical player, who’s a good ball carrier and has good positional awareness. I think defending is actually the weakest part of his game, and is more likely to be exposed in a less dominant team than city. I think the DM possibility is especially plausible if a certain someone becomes unavailable for non-footballing reasons.
 

GoonerBear

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Do you rate Tierney in this current system? I see it as a variation of what city used to play and in that system the fall backs tend to hold a high central position. However Tierney just bombs to the byline to get a cross in which doesn’t suit arsenals forwards. I would think zinchenko is better suited to the system and I always thought that’s why Asnl wanted Martinez

On the surface that's what it looks like to me. What we don't know is how Zinchenko feels. Is he happy to leave City for more game time, or is he wanting more assurance he'll play more in his most natural position?

So, he could be a replacement for Tierney, or a replacement for Xhaka in our system last season. What might give us another clue is who we target next. If its someone like Tielemans then that to me would suggest Zinchenko playing the inverted left back more, if it's a wide player and no other midfielder then I think he might play in midfield more.
 

simonhch

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Funny but a bit unfair. Most players are going to choose Barca over most clubs, including us. And United is the biggest club in England with his ex manager as boss. No surprise Martinez came here. Still, it’s true that it’s been a long time since you got the perception that Arsenal were a world class outfit with elite players. You look back over the last twenty years and think of the names they’ve had, Vieira, Bergkamp, Van Persie, Henry, Sanchez, Ozil, Fabregas, Overmars, Campbell, Pires, Petit, Anelka, Silva, Cole…..and you you look at the line ups they’ve had for the last 5 years or so, and there’s nothing there that screams quality, or a player you’d really covet as an opposition fan. Saka is probably the one, but you get that feeling that he might run down his contract and end up elsewhere, like City.

I have to admit that I really enjoyed our rivalry with Arsenal. Now we’re both crap, and the league is dominated by Football Manager style cheat codes at City and Chelsea, and doped up asthma sufferers at Liverpool.
 

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35m on Zinchenko seems quite steep for a backup City player they sure are getting max value for their sales. Cant say I know too much about him but he’s obviously an instant upgrade on Swiss Charlie Adam (not hard tbf) and he provides quality cover at LB. Seems like a good if somewhat overpriced signing and the club is really backing Arteta in this window. Doubt we are finished yet either.