Mike's Sheep Draft R1 - Moby vs. Indnyc

With Players at their Career Peaks, Who will Win?


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Michaelf7777777

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Moby Tactics

Key Highlights:


  • Team is built to get the best out of the best player on the pitch - Michel Platini
  • Rock solid back 4 with two standout defenders in Wright and Forster. Forster's incredible man marking skills would be crucial in tackling the thread of Muller.
  • Brehme and Alves providing the width, few better at the job at hand there. Brehme crossing to Sanchez up front would make for a clear cut route to goal.
  • Del Piero and Sanchez make a very complimentary partnership, with Hugo occupying the defenders and getting at the end of service inside the penalty area and ADP working his favourite left channel, allowing Platini the space to bomb forward and dropping deep or going for goal, if required.
  • One of the best players in the world at his peak and regarded by many as one of the greatest players to have played the game, "Charro" Moreno was the leader of one of the greatest attacks South America has seen, known as La Máquina, or The Machine. A faultless player, complete in every way, in controlling the ball, in dribbling past opponents, in creating chances for others, in winning the ball back in midfield and in being in the right place at the right time to put the ball in the back of the net, Moreno captivated audiences like few others, and the ones who watched him still regard him as one of the best players they have seen. He was a mentor to Di Stefano, and here's a small story about the two:
    • One of these stories tells of a match against Tigre, when Moreno was hit in the head by a projectile from the stands and went down, bleeding profusely. Di Stefano recalls that he asked if he should call for assistance, and Moreno replied with an angry profanity. He got back up, called the young DiStefano and told him: ‘Kid, listen to me carefully. If a player goes down on the field and he doesn’t get back up on his own, it better be because he's dead.' Moreno continued playing as if nothing had happened. Di Stefano was impressed by that incident, and throughout his great career, no matter how hurt he was, he never asked for assistance from the bench. Di Stefano adds that he is glad that Moreno isn’t around to watch today’s players, as they shamefully fall down and stay down over the most minimal contact.
  • Incredible goal threat in that front 4 - Sanchez won the Pichichi award FIVE times, ADP peaked with a 32 goal season, has 7 20+ goal seasons and over 300 goals in his career. Platini won the top scorer in Serie A in the 80s for 3 years in a row as well as phenomenal scoring returns for France in Euro 84. And Moreno has over 200 goals in his career. With the combination of skills in terms of creativity, dribbling, link up play, there is no way they won't score here.
Indnyc Tactics

Playing a lop sided 4-4-2.. Allan Simonsen nominally starts on the left but is given license to switch flanks as necessary. Gullit to pull the strings in midfield with support from Giles and Davids..Gerd Muller to score the Goals and Jon Walters is there to chase the opposition centerbacks/defensive midfielder and make a nuisance of himself

Passarella will lead the defense with Hansen (both comfortable on the ball). He'll step up to stop Platini along with Davids dropping deep.

Tony Dunne was Man United's starting left back for a number for years and the starter for the 1968 European cup victory
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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On team Moby, really like the use of Platini and Moreno. He probably gets the best out of the pre war players among all the teams. Really smooth fits.

Not a fan of Del Piero in this setup. Prefer someone with lesser No.10 tendencies.

Brehme and Alves are quite brilliant here as well.

Surprised to see Moby pick Billy Wright. From what I know, his only available game is the one against Hungary where England lost 6-3 where the English centre backs had no clue what to do. As good as a pre footage pick that.

On team Indnyc, not sure about the chemistry of the team. Passarella and Hansen ain't ideal partners. Simonsen was largely a RWF, but I am not knowledgeable if he played on left. Could have just struck Jon Walters on the left wing and played a 4-2-3-1. Would have been better on the eye. I do remember Walters playing on wings for Stoke.

Going with Moby here.
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow

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Voted against Moby simply because that base is horrible. One sheep is ok, but two meh players holding up the base, esp against Gullit is not ideal at all.
Plus Indnyc has a super strong spine which tilted this in his favor.
Simonsen should be on the right.
 

Indnyc

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Like I mentioned Simonsen is nominally starting on the left but with freedom to switch flanks. He isn’t tied to one flank


He scores goals from both sides in the video.
 

Chesterlestreet

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From what I know, his only available game is the one against Hungary where England lost 6-3 where the English centre backs had no clue what to do.
That was more down to the setup being tactically outdated and extremely ill suited for dealing with Hungary's progressive style - and much less down to individual players not being up to scratch.

Stan Cullis' Wolverhampton (Wright's club team) later defeated Honved - on a soggy pitch, granted (which may have been partly the result of dark arts/gamesmanship), but the point is that Cullis wasn't an idiot and set up much more cynically than England did, realizing that he was facing a superior team with fantastic individual players in multiple positions.

Anyway, Wright was a first rate defender.

A minor point - but I'd probably switch him and Förster in that formation. *

* Matters even less if Förster is tasked with marking Müller (which seems to be the case).
 
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GodShaveTheQueen

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Anyway, Wright was a first rate defender.
Not exactly the point. If one doesn't rate pre footage players, there is no reason to rate and pick players like Wright and Edwards who either have really bad games or like in Edwards case, the only game available is him playing at CB and not in midfield. That is hypocritical IMO. I'd pick Wright personally, but I do give credit to pre footage players.

CC : @Šjor Bepo
 

Šjor Bepo

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I rate them(wright was class, there is one more game from him online), but i just hate them. Every player is described the same, like they just changed names.....
 

Chesterlestreet

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That is hypocritical IMO.
You mean in Moby's particular case, I take it?

Well - that's different, but then again has he stated that he's against picking pre-footage players on principle?

If so - then yeah, odd pick (sure).

However, in Wright's case there's plenty of documentation (he's a very well known player, generally) and not just generic praise either (see Sjor's comment - the sentiment of which I generally agree with), we know quite a bit about what sort of player he was.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Anyway, I don't find this easy to call. Both teams have certain issues in spite of - obviously - boasting numerous brilliant players.

Moby looks light in the middle of the park - and somewhat clustered further up the pitch. His setup looks about right, though, given the players at his disposal.

For Indny, I don't particularly fancy Simonsen on the left. Also agree that Passarella/Hansen isn't an ideal combo - still, first round in a sheep draft, you gotta cut people some slack.

I dunno - Walters on the left, probably (he could do a job, for a sheep, there - sort of), Simonsen on the right, Gullit in a free AM-ish role.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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You mean in Moby's particular case, I take it?

Well - that's different, but then again has he stated that he's against picking pre-footage players on principle?
Not pointing out anyone in particular. I understand why people don't rate them or like them in drafts and I have learnt to live with it.

But in principle, the same should apply to a Wright whose only performance doesn't deserve a place in any draft. Or Edwards whose only game is at CB. Sure there is one more game of a 34 year old about to retire Wright at CB against the Soviets where England lost 1-0, but I am sure hardly anyone would have watched and judged that before picking him now or before.

However, in Wright's case there's plenty of documentation
There is enough documentation about everyone. Just depends on our interest to dig and read :)
 

Chesterlestreet

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But in principle, the same should apply to a Wright whose only performance doesn't deserve a place in an all time draft.
Not sure I understand your point here: if there is a "(sufficient) footage or the player should be treated like a sheep" rule for the draft (I gather that this has been implemented recently), then yes - absolutely. But there's no such rule here - even a round dedicated to non-footage players (more or less).
 

Šjor Bepo

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Whats your point scrappy? Us that hate pre-footage players are not allowed to pick them when they are allowed by rules(which i hope this is the last bloody time)? Nice way of cleaning your path to them in a sheep draft, i applaud the tactic.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Whats your point scrappy? Us that hate pre-footage players are not allowed to pick them when they are allowed by rules(which i hope this is the last bloody time)? Nice way of cleaning your path to them in a sheep draft, i applaud the tactic.
No that is not my point mate. If its forced by the round rules, it's okay. But Wright and Edwards were not picked in that round. If footage not existing for a player turns anyone off, it's hypocritical of them pick Wright or Edwards.

I sense this might get heated up as usual, so that is about it from me on this debate. Let's not derail the game.
 

Enigma_87

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No that is not my point mate. If its forced by the round rules, it's okay. But Wright and Edwards were not picked in that round. If footage not existing for a player turns anyone off, it's hypocritical of them pick Wright or Edwards.

I sense this might get heated up as usual, so that is about it from me on this debate. Let's not derail the game.
Just like @Šjor Bepo I hate picking no footage players, for couple of reasons.

As Sjor stated the write-ups for those players are usually done by their mates or journos that describe them like superhumans.

There is some exceptions to the rule though.

Edwards is one of them. His career was cut short and there is plenty of evidence that he was a great player and ahead of his time. He also played in the 50's which was quite different to the 30's and 40's. The game evolved a lot at the time and at the end of the 50's it moved from the archaic W-M formations and became much more tactical. For example the 4-2-4 that was implemented in South America at the time was used till the late 70's in Germany and was the predecessor of the 4-4-2 that was also used in England. Now in terms of how one would rate Edwards in all time draft - it's tough. Many would go with the "what if" angle and probably have a point, from the little what we've heard about him and what we've seen he looked like a great player, won also 2 First division titles on the trot and was probably United's best player at that early age.

The cut off date for me is the late 40's. Maybe from Obdulio Varela onwards.

For example from the early 50's till the end of the 60's played some of the very best players in the game that were way ahead of their time. Some have footage, some have very little, but then the reports at the time are much more viable compared to the ones of those playing in the 20's, 30's and 40's.

But if a player didn't play in the mid - late 50's and in combination there is no video evidence of him most probably I won't rate him that high and even some of the "greats" like Da Guia - borderline sheep.
 

Chesterlestreet

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As Sjor stated the write-ups for those players are usually done by their mates or journos that describe them like superhumans.
The easily accessible stuff - yes.

GSTQ has a point, though - you can actually find more useful descriptions if you do a bit of digging.

But - yes - generally the "superhuman" issue is real. Like I've said before, the main problem with nostalgia heavy pieces written about old school players is that they hardly ever include descriptions of the player's weaknesses.

And another point (made before): players of a certain ilk, who have gone down in history as great, from the 20s, 30s, 40s - very often share a particular trait: they were trailblazers of some kind or another, i.e. their game transcended the typically rigid roles and systems of the era. Which is nice - but doesn't necessarily mean all that much when we start comparing these players to later counterparts. Standing out in a rigid system is easier than standing out in a more modern (less rigid, with more comprehensive/fluid roles) system. Simple point - but worth repeating.
 

Šjor Bepo

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First and probably the last time i picked Edwards, not for scrappy reasons but for the pure fact he gets a bit overrated and you can dismiss most articles about him for obvious reasons. Saying that the double pick of him and Best was Impossible to ignore.