Fcuk dying at 54 years of age with over £100m in the bank.
Mino Raiola has died
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Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He's getting the cut from the clubs, not his clients. Unless you think he's pricing his clients out of moves with his demands and they're ok with it.
If you've ever had to knock on a union's door for help, you would know that the services they provide are vastly inferior to those of a high end professional with a $500 hourly rate.
These players are mega rich and might want to have a person of their choosing sit on multi million dollar contract negotiations on their behalf.
I don't think banning it is legally possible anyway, but maybe our very own Ace Ventura can chip in.
Yeah not like it has not been reported that his demands have priced clubs out of a move for HaalandHe's getting the cut from the clubs, not his clients. Unless you think he's pricing his clients out of moves with his demands and they're ok with it.
He represented 75 players across the totality of football. That’s infinitesimal.
He was exploiting broken loopholes to become a millionaire.
Unless you also support mafia lawyers and accountants with the same regard, you probably need to reset.
His transfer clause will only activate this summer, there's no way Haaland's not getting his move.Yeah not like it has not been reported that his demands have priced clubs out of a move for Haaland
Your response is so low energy. I’m advocating for the stars of the sport, the actual talent, to control the sport… and you’re advocating for the best 100-250 players to rape the game via their agents, by helping hundreds of millions leave the game, shortchanging fans.
You’re small minded. Bollocks to what’s possible. If all players striked, they get whatever the Fcuk they wanted. Period. No ifs, buts or coconuts.
It'll happen even without agents, the only difference is that it'll be the owners/shareholders lining their pockets instead.
No, I did not. This is a strawman. More than 10,000 footballers can afford to have a agent sit in on their contract negotation.
Contract negotations aren't that frequent (once every 2 years on average?) and an hourly rate for a good mediator does not have to be the equivalent of Raiola making 20 million on a transfer. Think about the rates of a legal consultant.
You don't have the real world experience to know that hiring people to mediate contracts is normal in other walks of life for moderately affluent people as well.
Ok so this will be my last post on the matter because condescending members like you that speak about a subject they obviously know NOTHING about have a tendancy to severely piss me off.
1st : I don't give a damn about what journalists post, they're not lawyers.
2nd : I "only posted one irrelevant FIFA regulation" that is totally relevant because it specifically say that any agent acting on behalf of a player in a transaction must file his intermediary contract on the FA plateform.
Want more? There you go :
Applicable regulation in Italy :
art17.6 of the REGOLAMENTO CONI AGENTI SPORTIVI (I'm sure you can figure out what it means) :
6. Gli agenti sportivi forniscono i propri servizi sulla base di apposito contratto di mandato redatto in forma scritta, anche nel rispetto di quanto previsto al successivo art. 21, comma 8, del presente Regolamento
"6. Sports agents provide their services on the basis of a specific mandate agreement drawn up in writing, also in compliance with the provisions of the following art. 21, paragraph 8, of these Regulations"
About the applicable law in France, an article from the Bignon Lebray, one of the french leading business/sports law firm :
"Pour rappel, l’activité d’agent sportif est strictement encadrée par les articles L.222-7 et suivants du code du sport parmi lesquelles figurent l’obligation de signer entre l’agent sportif et son cocontractant un contrat écrit prévoyant diverses mentions relatives à la rémunération due à l’agent."
Google trad : As a reminder, the activity of sports agent is strictly governed by articles L.222-7 and following of the sports code, among which is the obligation to sign between the sports agent and his co-contractor a written contract providing for various mentions relating to to the remuneration due to the agent
The relavant provision is article L222-17 of the code du sport.
Is that enough?
3rd : You, again, totally misinterpreted this decision
What the dutch court ruled on : even if a valid written contract wasn't signed as it should have been under italian regulations, the absence of such contract doesn't mean a contract doesn't exist under dutch civil law
What the dutch court did NOT rule on : not having a contract complies with the italian/FIFA regulations regarding the agent activity in Italy and you can conduct your activity as an agent without signing any.
It's even specifically written in the article you posted. You CAN have a contract under dutch law without complying with FIFA regulations. It means that from a civil law standpoint the contract exists but the federation can impose sanctions (being, in england for exemple, the player not being registered) because you didn't comply with their regulations :
"The position of SEG *** tacitly not to conclude a mediation agreement on the basis of the regulations of FIFA, KNVB and FIGC is not decisive. These provisions of regulation within a particular sport are not equivalent to legislation. However, they can have disciplinary consequences within the sports federation to which the intermediary belongs. "
So why was SEG allowed to act in this transaction without having a contract with De Vrij you'll ask me? Because they had a contract, but with Inter Milan.
If an agent wants to properly represent a player, he MUST sign a contract to comply with the italian federation regulations.
"It's a common business practice for top agents like SEG and Raiola. They get paid by the clubs on the contracts the player signs for the club. The agents are named on those contracts as mediators. That's their business model. It's how Raiola negotiates millions for himself on the transfers. He's doesn't have a fixed rate through a contract with a client. If you're read even on 1 article on the De Vrij v SEG case (or the actual ruling), this would've been explained to you. "
Yes, it's pretty often used by agents to get more money from both clubs and players. But that's far from being the only thing Raiola did, especially for bigger players. How do I know that? Well simply because since the french FFF (and the FA) forces agents to publish agreements, the type of contract is open data :
Here you can clearly see that Raiola has 3 ways contracts with some players/clubs but regular agent contracts with players like Donnarumma or Moise Kean.
I think I've wasted enough time now, bye.
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I bet I’ve got a dickload more real world experience than you bud. But sure. Dream small if you like.
"End to end control" has to be voted upon and I guarantee you won't see that happen given delta in the floor and ceiling of the wages. A players union still has to work within the labor laws of all countries their members are employed in so any notion of end to end control is nothing more than a pipe dream. Even if we accept that it's possible on the basis of only football contracts, agents also manage endorsements outside the scope of their football contract. Look at North American professional sports if you want to see the extent of power of player's unions.
Yes, it was his job to look after his clients financial interests. Same could be argued that his exorbitant agent fees and desire to move clients on to other teams on frequent basis has added little to no value to the overall market and instead raised prices for TV deals and gate entry to the detriment of ordinary fans.
He may have had some contracts in countries that require such. It's not a requirement in Holland (in which a large part of his playerbase is or was situated)Ok so this will be my last post on the matter because condescending members like you that speak about a subject they obviously know NOTHING about have a tendancy to severaly piss me off.
1st : I don't give a damn about what journalists post, they're not lawyers.
2nd : I "only posted one irrelevant FIFA regulation" that is totally relevant because it specifically say that any agent acting on behalf of a player in a transaction must file his intermediary contract on the FA plateform.
Want more? There you go :
Applicable regulation in Italy :
art17.6 of the REGOLAMENTO CONI AGENTI SPORTIVI (I'm sure you can figure out what it means) :
6. Gli agenti sportivi forniscono i propri servizi sulla base di apposito contratto di mandato redatto in forma scritta, anche nel rispetto di quanto previsto al successivo art. 21, comma 8, del presente Regolamento
"6. Sports agents provide their services on the basis of a specific mandate agreement drawn up in writing, also in compliance with the provisions of the following art. 21, paragraph 8, of these Regulations"
About the applicable law in France, an article from the Bignon Lebray, one of the french leading business/sports law firm :
"Pour rappel, l’activité d’agent sportif est strictement encadrée par les articles L.222-7 et suivants du code du sport parmi lesquelles figurent l’obligation de signer entre l’agent sportif et son cocontractant un contrat écrit prévoyant diverses mentions relatives à la rémunération due à l’agent."
Google trad : As a reminder, the activity of sports agent is strictly governed by articles L.222-7 and following of the sports code, among which is the obligation to sign between the sports agent and his co-contractor a written contract providing for various mentions relating to to the remuneration due to the agent
The relavant provision is article L222-17 of the code du sport.
Is that enough?
3rd : You, again, totally misinterpreted this decision
What the dutch court ruled on : even if a valid written contract wasn't signed as it should have been under italian regulations, the absence of such contract doesn't mean a contract doesn't exist under dutch civil law
What the dutch court did NOT rule on : not having a contract complies with the italian/FIFA regulations regarding the agent activity in Italy and you can conduct your activity as an agent without signing any.
It's even specifically written in the article you posted. You CAN have a contract under dutch law without complying with FIFA regulations. It means that from a civil law standpoint the contract exists but the federation can impose sanctions (being, in england for exemple, the player not being registered) because you didn't comply with their regulations :
"The position of SEG *** tacitly not to conclude a mediation agreement on the basis of the regulations of FIFA, KNVB and FIGC is not decisive. These provisions of regulation within a particular sport are not equivalent to legislation. However, they can have disciplinary consequences within the sports federation to which the intermediary belongs. "
So why was SEG allowed to act in this transaction without having a contract with De Vrij you'll ask me? Because they had a contract, but with Inter Milan.
If an agent wants to properly represent a player, he MUST sign a contract to comply with the italian federation regulations.
"It's a common business practice for top agents like SEG and Raiola. They get paid by the clubs on the contracts the player signs for the club. The agents are named on those contracts as mediators. That's their business model. It's how Raiola negotiates millions for himself on the transfers. He's doesn't have a fixed rate through a contract with a client. If you're read even on 1 article on the De Vrij v SEG case (or the actual ruling), this would've been explained to you. "
Yes, it's pretty often used by agents to get more money from both clubs and players. But that's not the only thing Raiola did. How do I know that? Well simply because since the french FFF (and the FA) forces agents to publish agreements, the type of contract is open data :
Here you can clearly see that Raiola has 3 ways contracts with some players/clubs but regular agent contracts with players like Donnarumma.
I think I've wasted enough time now, bye.
It's literally in the court ruling between SEG and De Vrij that a contract is not required under Dutch law.
From the SEG (another large player agent) vs De Vrij ruling:
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inziendocument?id=ECLI:NL:RBAMS:2022:1770
"Naar Nederlands recht hoefde de bemiddelingsovereenkomst niet schriftelijk te worden aangegaan (artikel 7:427 jo. 7:417 lid 2 jo. 7:408 lid 3 BW)"
"According to Dutch law a written contract isn't mandatory."
Here's an article from "Het Parool" that says Raiola did not use contracts:
"The agent, who only lived 'till 54, never used contracts his business relationship with clients"
Surely a competent journalist working on one of the gazillion obituaries would have taken note of the "fairy tale" that Raiola does not use contracts.
While the claim isn't as waterproof as you've shown, it's true for many of his clients and far from "a fairy tale", which was your original claim and you've been moving the goal posts on.
So much real world experience that you think only 100-250 footballers have a couple of thousands in the bank to pay for a mediator...
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No one could argue that because it's not grounded in reality.
This thread is weird.
I was also perplexed as to what answer I could give to that
The answer has been given numerous times. People make two mistakes, first they use Ibrahimovic's career as a typical example of Raiola's clients when he is in fact atypical and they make the dumb mistake to think that the average player doesn't move several times during his career in order to either move to better clubs/leagues or for better contracts. It's a bit strange to see that on a Football forum where you would assume that most people are interested enough in Football to have a rough idea about how a career generally goes. Many seem to think that every player either comes from a big/wealthy club or are ready to make the jump to these clubs during their teenage.
Professional athletes are not truckers and no players union will be the teamsters. Other entertainment professions with unions have agents yet you think they are some scourge on society
Very weird and deluded
Good point.
Van der Wiel to PSG (a club he had no business being at) is a good example of how average footballers benefited from having Raiola as their agent.
Grief does weird things to people. Clear there is a lot of love for the Pizzaman here.
Make a sport all about money and it is hard to criticise someone who makes money for himself and his clients.
That said someone who seems to work for a client and both clubs involved in a deal for that client seems to well into ethical grey areas. When an agent gets megabucks from the selling club, the buying club and his client there seems to be a simple solution which is outlawing the practice. You can only work for one of the three parties might be a simple way forward.
That said someone who seems to work for a client and both clubs involved in a deal for that client seems to well into ethical grey areas. When an agent gets megabucks from the selling club, the buying club and his client there seems to be a simple solution which is outlawing the practice. You can only work for one of the three parties might be a simple way forward.
Raiola was a better person than some of the posters in this thread.
What broken loopholes did he exploit to take advantage of players? Unless I'm missing something?
The blokes dead guys, whether he was a good person or not is something for the people who knew him to decide. You can think he was shady feck all you want, digging into his dealings to prove an opinion is just strange behaviour.
Reading some of the replies here you would think he was robbing grannies for a living. I would like to see the same energy towards guys like Bezos or other billionaires who enslave people for tiny % of what they’re worth to their company.
But yeah, good riddance a guy who’s lost his life at 54, just because he took some money from our beloved clubs. I’m literally losing sleep over the fact that some money have gone into Raiola’s pocket instead of the poor Glazer’s.
But yeah, good riddance a guy who’s lost his life at 54, just because he took some money from our beloved clubs. I’m literally losing sleep over the fact that some money have gone into Raiola’s pocket instead of the poor Glazer’s.
The guys only goal in life was to fill his own and his player's pockets. And in a sense that's fair, he just played the game. But mourning the guys is hilarious, the world is better off without him.
All come down to this.