Missing Herrera

Sir Scott McToMinay

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People are in this thread genuinely claiming, after a few decent matches, that Scott McTominay is not only better than Herrera, but that he's also better than Darren Fletcher.. yet no doubt these same people are wondering how we've ended up with such a shower on the field of appalling players not good enough to be playing for this club, it makes you think.

Just fyi, whilst McTominay aint half bad, he's not United first team quality, well i guess he is right now because we are piss poor.
That’s not what I’ve said, I’ve said that McTominay is more consistent and better than Fletcher was at 22, I stand by it whole heartly.
If you remember that version of Fletcher you would agree too.

You've got to blind and dumb at this point to not see what Herrera brought to the club. The bloke won the ball back for fun. He injected pace into the side. Had an immaculate touch, and as much as you want to belittle his passing abilities, you'll see more throughballs and dangerous passes then you'll see from Mctominay right now. And yeah, he did 'get the club,' which is why he'd still be running around like a lunatic in the 90th minute when the rest of the team had given up. He happened to also be the last natural leader we had on the pitch.

Your comparison to Arteta just goes to show how off you are about what type of player he was for us. His defensive contribution was far and away the and most important aspect of his game, but people still insist on judging him on his playmaking abilities.
Steady on sweetheart, no need for name calling.
I do appreciate his tacking ability and even his positional awareness, but claiming he injected pace into the side is simply wrong, I don’t think I’ve seen a midfielder passing it to his goalie as often as he did, let’s not reinvent history, it was ridiculous.
Hence why I reckon Mourinho wanted someone else in.
 

Johan07

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He was on 70k a month. No way he was offered a pay cut. Completely illogical.
I think this narrative is blatantly not true and that journalists are comparing the total value of the probably two year extension contract that we offered to the five year contract that PSG offered.
We probably offered him like 200k or so to extend for two years or even three. My guess of course but I would be surprised if its not close to the truth. There is really no reason to play the blame game towards the club or Herrera here. He got an exceptional offer from PSG and took it. All credit to him.
 
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Untd55

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Honestly, I do not see what people see in McTominay. I feel he is just being overrated due to people wanting a bit of promise. He is painfully average in every single department.

He is nowhere near as good as Herrera. Herrera has good technique, but McTominay is completely devoid of it. Just because he scored one goal from outside of the box does not make him better than Herrera.

Herrera is on an entirely different level in terms of reading the game and technique to McTominay. The only thing that McTominay has on him is strength.

We were completely dominated by Newcastle, which seems to have been completely blamed on Fred. People seem to forget that McTominay was equally shown up for the poor player he is by the Longstaffs.
 

Irwin99

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It's not saying an awful lot but he was probably our best post SAF signing. Good/decent first season, average second season, excellent third season, player of the year, MoTM in the EL cup final, garbage 4th season, and a mixed final year but was arguably one of our most important players in Ole's winning run. The win ratio with him in the team and him out of it was very telling at one point.

I can't fathom why people feel the need to disparage him for leaving the club when the club apparently offered him a deal and a pay cut right after PSG had offered him a mega deal. I mean it's a no brainer for him on a professional level. Play for PSG for a bumper wage and the chance to win things or stay at a club where he's not valued highly enough to be offered an extension until the last few months of his contract.

What the club SHOULD have done was offer him contract after his excellent 16/17 season which would have given the club security if they wanted to sell the player and it wouldn't have cost nearly as much. It also would have sent the message that good performances will be rewarded instead of just renewing contracts regardless (Jones, Young and to some extent Shaw).

 

matt23

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I think we miss his game intelligence.

It's always good to have a player in your midfield that opposition supporters want to punch in the face.
 

littleman

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Herrera wasn't a midfield great, but better than the gnash we have now. For Ole and Woodward to not be able to see that is really poor. Extension should have gone to Herrera and not Mata.

We need midfield workrate so Pogba can be the luxury spear. Herrera is no Keane but could work as a midfield foundation for 1-2 more seasons.
 

ravi2

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He was on 70k a month. No way he was offered a pay cut. Completely illogical.
I think this narrative is blatantly not true and that journalists are comparing the total value of the probably two year extension contract that we offered to the five year contract that PSG offered.
I watched this Duncan Castle interview where he sheds light on what happened this summer.
According to his sources, the contract Ed offered Ander had a pay cut. Not everything ed does is logical

 

Johan07

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It's not saying an awful lot but he was probably our best post SAF signing. Good/decent first season, average second season, excellent third season, player of the year, MoTM in the EL cup final, garbage 4th season, and a mixed final year but was arguably one of our most important players in Ole's winning run. The win ratio with him in the team and him out of it was very telling at one point.

I can't fathom why people feel the need to disparage him for leaving the club when the club apparently offered him a deal and a pay cut right after PSG had offered him a mega deal. I mean it's a no brainer for him on a professional level. Play for PSG for a bumper wage and the chance to win things or stay at a club where he's not valued highly enough to be offered an extension until the last few months of his contract.

What the club SHOULD have done was offer him contract after his excellent 16/17 season which would have given the club security if they wanted to sell the player and it wouldn't have cost nearly as much. It also would have sent the message that good performances will be rewarded instead of just renewing contracts regardless (Jones, Young and to some extent Shaw).

This is probably true in a way, but he was never first choice under either LVG or Mourinho. To begin with at least. He had to fight his way into the team. The reason that he was not offered an extension earlier is probably just that the current manager in place did not think he could not and should be replaced. Disagree, but its probably what happened,
 

Johan07

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I watched this Duncan Castle interview where he sheds light on what happened this summer.
According to his sources, the contract Ed offered Ander had a pay cut. Not everything ed does is logical

From 70k? I want what Duncan is smoking.
 

Johan07

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I watched this Duncan Castle interview where he sheds light on what happened this summer.
According to his sources, the contract Ed offered Ander had a pay cut. Not everything ed does is logical

You do understand that this is complete BS, right? I am sure PSG offered a bigger contract, but also over a longer time. Way longer than we were and should be acceptable to us. And Duncan Castle is a complete twat/idiot as well. Just saying....
 

ottosec

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A player who was always overrated by our fans. I liked him a lot too and understand why people were so fond of him.

Obviously, compared to McTominay, Fred, and the other donkeys we play these days, he was much better. But that can be said about Fellaini too.

Neither of them should be players that we should miss.
 

ivaldo

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He was on 70k a month. No way he was offered a pay cut. Completely illogical.
I think this narrative is blatantly not true and that journalists are comparing the total value of the probably two year extension contract that we offered to the five year contract that PSG offered.
He was on significantly more than 70k a month. The whole thing is illogical, and yet here we are.
 

littleman

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A player who was always overrated by our fans. I liked him a lot too and understand why people were so fond of him.

Obviously, compared to McTominay, Fred, and the other donkeys we play these days, he was much better. But that can be said about Fellaini too.

Neither of them should be players that we should miss.
You're talking about an MUFC that doesn't exist anymore. Look at our players now and our manager. Is this really MUFC quality?

And a good chunk of the fanbase is defending our trash.

If we can stop pretending to be better than we are, the goal has to be to make good decisions at every corner. Keeping Herrera was a good decision. Renewing Mata was not. The list goes on
 

Ekeke

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So you're saying that Ole and staff do not believe Matic and McTominay can be the double pivot with Pogba as the 10 or play Matic as a 6 with McTominay the right sided 8 in the right channel with Pogba as the more advanced 8/10 in the left channel? I find that hard to believe that McTominay can't do a similar role to Herrera in that being defensively responsible, winning the ball back and supporting the attacking while providing energy and steel in the midfield.

Ole and staff must try this out and exhaust their options. Sanchez could have done a job as a CF and he showed it in a small sample size the past two seasons at United...yet they bin him off, which I think had more to do with his wages relative to his playing time, but they binned him off nonetheless and are still paying part of his wages.
Ander was much more defensively responsible. McTominay is better going forward.

Matic is a complete liability that Ander did the job for
 

Ban

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This thread doesn't disappoint. So much shitting on him its incredible. Calling him overrated, average and not United quality. Some fans still live in fantasy land.
 

edcunited1878

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Ander was much more defensively responsible. McTominay is better going forward.

Matic is a complete liability that Ander did the job for
There's a better balance if Matic, McTominay and Pogba start at the center for United. Matic is slow yes, but he can control a ball, pass a ball and shield a ball better than Fred, which would allow Pogba higher up the pitch and McTominay do more as a 2-way midfielder (an 8).

That's the only true option United have but they choose to ignore it. Fred has shown he isn't the answer to anything. You still don't know what you're getting with him. My point is that Herrera is not the make or break of United's current plight. The fact that there is another option (Matic) who could be paired with McTominay, which would theoretically allow Pogba to be thrown forward and provide more creativity and offensive impetuous is something the current staff must try.
 

Ekeke

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There's a better balance if Matic, McTominay and Pogba start at the center for United. Matic is slow yes, but he can control a ball, pass a ball and shield a ball better than Fred, which would allow Pogba higher up the pitch and McTominay do more as a 2-way midfielder (an 8).

That's the only true option United have but they choose to ignore it. Fred has shown he isn't the answer to anything. You still don't know what you're getting with him. My point is that Herrera is not the make or break of United's current plight. The fact that there is another option (Matic) who could be paired with McTominay, which would theoretically allow Pogba to be thrown forward and provide more creativity and offensive impetuous is something the current staff must try.
Its ignored because without Ander doing Matic's job, he gets exposed
 

edcunited1878

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Its ignored because without Ander doing Matic's job, he gets exposed
Matic getting exposed against what, a counter attack? It's as if because the guy is included in the starting XI United are giving up goals and chances galore, which is not the case.

If McTominay is better going forward than Ander and is still defensively responsible, Matic is the stay at home defensive player. Allow Matic to build the play from deep and connect with McTominay and the fullbacks, who then play it into Pogba or allow Pogba to come deep, pass, then move up into space knowing that at least Matic, Lindelof and Maguire are behind him.
 

Decomposing In Paris

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It's fashionable to complain that a club like United would miss a player like Herrera, but we do. I think we miss him as a footballer and as a man. It's a crime that we let him leave the way he did.
 

Ekeke

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Matic getting exposed against what, a counter attack? It's as if because the guy is included in the starting XI United are giving up goals and chances galore, which is not the case.

If McTominay is better going forward than Ander and is still defensively responsible, Matic is the stay at home defensive player. Allow Matic to build the play from deep and connect with McTominay and the fullbacks, who then play it into Pogba or allow Pogba to come deep, pass, then move up into space knowing that at least Matic, Lindelof and Maguire are behind him.
Exposed against any attack. He's a DM who doesnt win the ball
 

Yagami

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Herrera as a DM was great. The problem was we insisted on playing him as a box to box where he's average. As our DM, he was twice the player Matic was there (& I like Matic), and was just one of the best DMs around, imo.

I don't know why José stopped playing him there for Matic. Not only did playing him as a DM bring balance to the midfield alongside Pogba who could be a bit more free due to Herrera's incredible ability to win the ball back and cover ground, playing him there helped us play our best football under José in general, imo.
 

Cee90

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I fecking miss him anyway.

I don't care what anyone says on here, he is criminally underrated by a lot of our fans and I wish we still had him here.
 

Oly Francis

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We probably offered him like 200k or so to extend for two years or even three. My guess of course but I would be surprised if its not close to the truth. There is really no reason to play the blame game towards the club or Herrera here. He got an exceptional offer from PSG and took it. All credit to him.
Again, he doesn't earn more than 110-140k£/week at PSG. It's a good deal but far from what we heard in the english media.
 

Chairman Steve

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Completely fecking insane to not get a replacement for him in. I’m not saying he’s some amazing player. He’s a decent but limited player and we could do better than him if we looked hard enough... but not replacing what he provides was total incompetence from both OGS and the board jointly.

Either the board is penny pinching, OGS’s preference for central midfielders seemingly doesn’t extend beyond Sean Longstaff or all the above.
 

Eternitiy

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Herrera as a DM was great. The problem was we insisted on playing him as a box to box where he's average. As our DM, he was twice the player Matic was there (& I like Matic), and was just one of the best DMs around, imo.

I don't know why José stopped playing him there for Matic. Not only did playing him as a DM bring balance to the midfield alongside Pogba who could be a bit more free due to Herrera's incredible ability to win the ball back and cover ground, playing him there helped us play our best football under José in general, imo.
Herrera was poor as a defensive midfielder. He had a few matches where he played very well when assigned to man-mark a specific player, but generally he was poor. Very rash in the tackle and inconsistent passing.

That said, overall, he was a good signing for us, and failure to replace both he and Fellaini was a shocking decision.
 

sincher

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Not the greatest player ever but of course we miss him since none of our other midfielders are as good bar Pogba, and Pogba doesn't work hard enough defensively.

It was actually one if the best things that Ole did when he first came here to switch Herrera into a more defensive role in midfield. It changed the whole team dynamic and Herrera stood out as one of our best players when we had that good run. Very curious that he let him go and didn't really look hard for someone else to do that, especially since I don't see Sean Longstaff as all that similar (as well as younger/unproven when it is the kind of pivotal position where most teams opt for an established player).

This is the single biggest issue in our squad right now. We don't even have an adequate solution when everyone is fit.
 

clarkydaz

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We probably offered him like 200k or so to extend for two years or even three. My guess of course but I would be surprised if its not close to the truth. There is really no reason to play the blame game towards the club or Herrera here. He got an exceptional offer from PSG and took it. All credit to him.
The picture is he felt underappreciated how the club were treating him, so he thought about elsewhere. Not a chance he would be demanding a degea type contract. If castles is supposed to be a jose fanboy, slipping herrera info out like this is of little consequence
 

Yagami

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Herrera was poor as a defensive midfielder. He had a few matches where he played very well when assigned to man-mark a specific player, but generally he was poor. Very rash in the tackle and inconsistent passing.

That said, overall, he was a good signing for us, and failure to replace both he and Fellaini was a shocking decision.
I completely disagree. He was excellent there. Winning the ball back for fun, injecting some pace and urgency into our build-up play, freeing up Pogba and our attackers because they knew he'd cover ground on the counter if we lost the ball, and won it back himself anyway more often than not.
 

Eric's Seagull

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Completely fecking insane to not get a replacement for him in. I’m not saying he’s some amazing player. He’s a decent but limited player and we could do better than him if we looked hard enough... but not replacing what he provides was total incompetence from both OGS and the board jointly.

Either the board is penny pinching, OGS’s preference for central midfielders seemingly doesn’t extend beyond Sean Longstaff or all the above.
I think that it is the board penny pinching. I think Woodward thought that we would be fine without him as he trusts his own football knowledge so much:annoyed:
 

izec

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He was one of our best performers since arriving here. He had some shitty games, but most of the time he performed under various managers and styles. Our good runs under van Gaal, Jose and Ole were all when Herrera played. Once he got injured, we didnt look as good last season. Stats back it up, as well as his high defensive workrate.

People didnt like him because he was winding opposition up/acting/theatrical and because he played it safe offensively most of the time. But for the defensive side of the game, the basic midfield stuff and tactical understanding, he was superb. Thats what we are lacking currently. Not to forget his ability to press.

Also adding the saltiness of some Fellaini and Fred fans, both saw less game time due to Ander. Nowadays on Redcafe, people support some players more than the club, which clouds their judgement on performances of some valuable and not so valuable players.
 

mav_9me

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I think we are missing a competent CM. We have a half decent upcoming CM in McT and the Pogba. That's it. So no wonder we are missing a competent CM like Herrera, not necessarily Herrera himself.
 

SambaBoy

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Terrible decision to let him leave. He would be our 2nd best CM now.

In an ideal world, we would have another 2 CM's, Pogba and Herrera and McTominay as back-up, but instead we are stuck with Fred (who's a flop), Matic (who's legs have gone) and Pereira (who can't really affect the game from CM).
 

Ekeke

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Every defense makes mistakes, we have not been able to field a settled back four for awhile now, our problem is that we can’t score any goals to compensate for these mistakes.
Well its both. We'd need to score less if we didn't always concede a goal. And we'd be able to concede more goals if we scored more

Given the amazing amount we've spent on defenders this summer, and how much we pay De Gea you'd think we can get a clean sheet every now and then
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Well its both. We'd need to score less if we didn't always concede a goal. And we'd be able to concede more goals if we scored more

Given the amazing amount we've spent on defenders this summer, and how much we pay De Gea you'd think we can get a clean sheet every now and then
Yes, but statistically our defense is doing pretty well given the circumstances.
I’d rank our defense a solid 6 out of 10 so far.
I’d rank our attack a 2 out of ten and I’m being seriously generous here, if you take the freak Chelsea result out of the equation it is looking absolutely grim.

Or in other words, whilst our defense is top 4 material our attack is relegation fodder.
A defense can’t win you a football match, that’s up to the attackers.
 

Ekeke

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Yes, but statistically our defense is doing pretty well given the circumstances.
I’d rank our defense a solid 6 out of 10 so far.
I’d rank our attack a 2 out of ten and I’m being seriously generous here, if you take the freak Chelsea result out of the equation it is looking absolutely grim.

Or in other words, whilst our defense is top 4 material our attack is relegation fodder.
A defense can’t win you a football match, that’s up to the attackers.
I dont disagree with that